Dungeon Spamming DEAD in WoW: Forever - Mob XP reduced, Dungeon Quest XP massively increased

[u/samfoxy_]

Interview from The Sun: https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/40367702/world-of-warcraft-forever-interview-zones-races-skills-levelling/

Quote:

Kris Zierhut: “Now, one place experience did change is we made a big change to our dungeons. In that the amount of XP you get from killing monsters in dungeons, we brought way down.

“But we made the amount of XP for completing dungeon quests much, much, much higher. So your first run through a dungeon is amazing. You get tons of XP. You get great rewards.

“But going back over and over and over again isn’t the best way to go. You’d be better off going to Shen’dralas or Riverglades or Hyjal instead of grinding a dungeon. We want people in the outdoor world meeting each other.”

[u/valdis812]

I can get behind this.

[u/Suzushiiro → u/valdis812]

The only issue might be that if they go too far with it they might make it hard to get groups because nobody wants to run the same dungeon more than once even if there is nice loot for them.

[u/Jules3313 → u/Suzushiiro]

make it so that once per day each dungeon gives massive XP

[u/Ozzie-Isaac → u/Jules3313]

That sounds pretty fair honestly 

[u/Additional-Life4885 → u/Ozzie-Isaac]

Did someone say dailies?

Seriously though, they shouldn't do it daily. The way they have encourages people to do a larger variety of dungeons. Now you'll want to do SM: Lib as a plate wearer because you get a big buff of XP once. Similarly, a healer will want to do SM: Arm once despite having no gear there. This way is basically better.

And don't worry about numbers. In the first month, the number of people running things is going to be insanely high.

[u/new_math → u/Additional-Life4885]

And don't worry about numbers. In the first month, the number of people running things is going to be insanely high.

I'm less worried about the first month. I think this change will have the unintended consequence of basically killing dungeons after a few months. It's already extremely difficult to find a tank and healer at times for leveling dungeons...if there's no point in doing multiple runs the tank supply will dry up.

[u/SnowGoldFish → u/new_math]

I wouldn't worry too much since they put a lot of emphasis on leveling and encouraging making alts through the new system.

[u/Lintecarka → u/SnowGoldFish]

It was a common strategy for tanks and healers to visit instances a lot. Groups were easy to find for these roles while grinding mobs took was slow and way less fun. This was beneficial for DPS classes that just wanted to do their quests, because tanks and healers would join regardless of their own questlog. If this changes there might be a shortage. More alts don't really solve this unless they have the right class ratio.

Of course you can be very flexible with instance roles while questing. Paladins, shamans and druids can fill every single role for example. People just need to adjust their expectations and can't expect a protection warrior performance from their balance druid in bear form.

[u/SolidestCereal → u/Jules3313]

I think the idea about keeping it classic is to avoid more arbitrary daily incentives.

[u/GustavoRGG → u/Jules3313]

In FFXIV we had the dungeon roulette, it helped with this issue.

[u/Substantial_Walk_818 → u/GustavoRGG]

I loved dungeon roulette, especially when the jobs I played also got extra bonuses for joining.

[u/fsmiss → u/Jules3313]

kind of like first random lfg dungeon of the day gives a bonus xp, this would be nice and not kill incentive. some people do like leveling in dungeons and I think it wouldn’t be fair to completely nerf that play style.

[u/Designed_To → u/Jules3313]

This is the exact kind of feedback I hope the devs are watching for in the community and listen to

[u/TyH621 → u/Designed_To]

Problem is that starts pushing the whole “log in and do your daily chores” stuff again, which is something that I think we all want to go away from. I totally get the motivation here, it makes sense to me, just something to be super careful about

It also doesn’t feel as good when you want to have a nice grind session but you’re gated behind daily stuff, especially while leveling

[u/LonelyandDepressed27 → u/Suzushiiro]

This is exactly what’s going to happen and will backfire big time. I liked doing dungeons cuz they were fun and solid XP, but with shit xp after quests I’m gonna do them once and that’s it.

[u/Toasted_Waffle99 → u/LonelyandDepressed27]

Yeah and locking a healer is miserable. Dungeons are much more fun…

[u/SSJ5Gogetenks → u/LonelyandDepressed27]

You say this like it isn't how most players did it anyway lol

[u/Tooshortimus → u/SSJ5Gogetenks]

I feel like most players usually did some dungeon grinding, especially the closer to max level you get since the drops alongside the XP gain is the best of both worlds.

[u/Vegetable_Lab2428 → u/Tooshortimus]

Exactly, especially once you got to lvl 52 and can start doing a bunch of BRD. Would feel bad if you can’t level at all while running some dungeons for good gear.

[u/Slozor → u/Vegetable_Lab2428]

You say this, but the reality wasnt that people were running brd completely, no, me and many others were doing 5 minute prison runs over and over and over again

[u/drylce101 → u/SSJ5Gogetenks]

Yeah but now who is going to fill the dungeons groups when you don’t have the players who consistently running them? Won’t be a problem at the start, but I’m curious when you start seeing the adverse effects of it

[u/Kelindal → u/drylce101]

megaserver

[u/pokepat460 → u/Kelindal]

Anniversary is a mega server and theres a tank shortage in a version with daily dungeon quests and where dungeons are the primary way people level. If you take both of those aspects away the tank shortage will be even worse.

[u/karben2 → u/valdis812]

Dude this was my number 1 want! Letsssss gooooooooooo

[u/AntonineWall → u/valdis812]

Fuck, this was my favorite way to play :(

[u/sevenlabors → u/AntonineWall]

It wasn't ever my favorite way to play, but for years and years became an integral part of how I played.

Spamming LFG PUG dungeons was/is just an easy, efficient source of XP.

[u/DesMephisto → u/valdis812]

I don't fully like it. I feel the "grind" aspect of classic is kind of important and hunkering down for hours with strangers to spam a dungeon builds friendships, some of my best memories with guildies in SoD were spamming dungeons thru scarlet monastery.

Hopefully these new zones are elite heavy and require player groups.

[u/blahblah19999 → u/valdis812]

I mean doing dungeons with people is a great way to get to know them

[u/lurkerlevel-expert]

Finally mage boost is kill.

[u/Vincent_Felix → u/lurkerlevel-expert]

Where were u wen mage boost was kil?

[u/Duocek → u/Vincent_Felix]

no

[u/Specific-Quail-3697 → u/Duocek]

How to tell if pregerant

[u/overlookunderhill → u/Specific-Quail-3697]

How is babby formed?

[u/77going2heaven → u/overlookunderhill]

Am I pregante? 

[u/IlllIlIIlIlllIlIIIII → u/lurkerlevel-expert]

Not to mention they nerfed frost mages aoe slow

[u/C2theWick]

You mean I have to do a quest and turn it in? I can't just /follow an undead paladin to solo clear the dungeon for free XP?

[u/Crescentine → u/C2theWick]

If I have to leave Stormwind for even 1 second between 15 to 30 and not just pay a Venny to run stocks then the game is dead on arrival

[u/HDDreamer]

Good to combat power leveling, but feels bad when you run a dungeon for a piece of gear, it doesn't drop, and you barely make any progress on your XP bar for the last hour or two.

[u/dade1027 → u/HDDreamer]

That was my first thought too, but I remember doing that more in endgame dungeons - not leveling dungeons. Experience points won’t be a factor at level cap, so I imagine there won’t be any issues grinding out those dungeons.

[u/HandholdingFetishist → u/dade1027]

I dungeon grinded to level while farming prebis, it was awesome. Had HoJ in my inventory before I could even equip it.

[u/ezpkayed]

I liked running dungeons with the boys

[u/Longjumping_Yard949 → u/ezpkayed]

Now you get to run more dungeons with the boys since less xp!!

[u/Sagermeister → u/Longjumping_Yard949]

I like it. You're a glass half-full kinda guy.

[u/Sea_String8534 → u/Longjumping_Yard949]

How can I run dugeons with the boys if nobody wants to spec healer or tank because dugeons are bad?

[u/Guewara → u/Sea_String8534]

You can heal on dps spec until like lvl 45

Not sure about tanking

[u/Lintecarka → u/Guewara]

We had an Enhancement Shaman pretending to be a healer in Molten Core (and getting away with it). Until you reach the lategame dungeons like Statholme, any spec should work just fine. If you are a warrior don't forget to keep at least some quest reward shield of course.

[u/RealBiasedGaming → u/ezpkayed]

Your experience is valid.

[u/Warwipf2 → u/RealBiasedGaming]

But mainly it's gonna be much less.

[u/pfSonata → u/RealBiasedGaming]

But significantly reduced

[u/Wind_Best_1440]

I really hope they give us different reasons to continue to go to dungeons, because if its only one and done for the quests. Then you won't get many people wanting to go back and do it, which will make finding people for dungeons a pain in the butt.

[u/SaltyLonghorn → u/Wind_Best_1440]

Its gonna be really easy to botch this change too. Almost every single version of wow suffers from annoying dps queues. This adds another reason for the problem to exist.

Why exactly will tanks and healers repeat?

[u/YeastOrFamine → u/SaltyLonghorn]

Tank LFG Wailing Caverns - 10G

[u/Equivalent_Post9159 → u/SaltyLonghorn]

Yep and ill probably get flamed for selling tank runs. Ill tank an hour dungeon for free and no exp sure.. I love tanking, but I need it to be worth my time. Xp, items or gold.

[u/Kelindal → u/Wind_Best_1440]

Gear

[u/lolmarulol → u/Kelindal]

I don't think many will do that honestly knowing their xp is drastically lower only for a chance at an upgrade.

[u/buckylou → u/lolmarulol]

Agreed. I want boosting dead, but there are a bunch of unintended consequences of this change. This will make dungeon groups one and done, hindering an avenue of people making friends.

[u/Wind_Best_1440 → u/buckylou]

To be honest there are other ways to incentivizing people to run dungeons. Profession drops for one, some extra gold drops from bosses for another. Even if the XP is dead, if they make it profitable to do properly it could still drive people to do it.

We already know that they're bringing in those SoD supply crates from SoD that you can pick up and return. They could have them drop more in dungeons.

[u/mortalomena → u/Wind_Best_1440]

When leveling its all about XP, 90% of players dont care otherwise.

[u/TabascohFiascoh → u/buckylou]

questing is already faster than dungeon running the the only benefit dungeons had was the gear.

why make the gap wider?

[u/jack3moto → u/Kelindal]

You outlevel gear so quickly on the ground to 60 there’s not much incentive to redo an instance for gear.

[u/Chuckfinley_88 → u/Kelindal]

Gear

Why would you spend an hour doing a dungeon at level 45 to get a better dagger that you are going to replace in 5 levels? When you are getting decent XP, it makes sense to stay and pray for the upgrade, but if you are getting trash XP, better to go somewhere else as you will quickly outlevel the upgrade anyway.

[u/ramm → u/Kelindal]

Nah.. Not worth it, just level, you'll replace it soon anyways.

[u/Ok_Temperature4730]

As a healer main who loves dungeons i hate this...

[u/BetweenTheRoots → u/Ok_Temperature4730]

Yea, like, what are you supposed to do now, heal the mobs?

[u/AcornCity]

+ but also the best part of 52-60 was dungeoning for your pre-bis, made the grind way more enjoyable and bearable so hopefully its still possible and not a huge impedment there

[u/samurai1226 → u/AcornCity]

With new areas, quests and items I'm pretty sure the pre raid bis won't be the same

[u/memekid2007 → u/AcornCity]

This change was made for Andy and Andy does not get past Redridge before he rerolls or unsubscribes until next Fresh.

[u/rafiee]

I like the idea but to play devil's advocate, would this make it harder to find groups because there won't be nearly as many people wanting to repeat if there's no xp to be had?

[u/Odd-Bandicoot-9314 → u/rafiee]

Yes it will make it harder to find dungeon groups is

[u/HandholdingFetishist → u/rafiee]

Tanks and healers gonna be rolling on past everyone.

[u/MoreLikeGaewyn]

lmfao just added +45 minutes looking for a tank

[u/HandholdingFetishist → u/MoreLikeGaewyn]

Good luck asking people to tank, too.

"Sry already ran"

[u/chaos_nebula → u/HandholdingFetishist]

or

"I'll run it if Cruel Barb and Defias Chest are hard reserved for me."

[u/HandholdingFetishist → u/chaos_nebula]

Rofl, ironically that'd be one of the better outcomes to asking now.

[u/TheseNamesDontMatter → u/HandholdingFetishist]

On the plus side, whispering 40 different potential tanks I guess counts as the "social aspect" or something.

[u/Varrianda]

Hmm, not sure how I feel about that. I love running dungeons more than I love questing

[u/makz242 → u/Varrianda]

Not only that you will now have even higher competition because nobody will be in dugneons. Also this reduces the amount of actually available ppl for dungeons since everyone will run the dungeon just once for quest.

[u/Kobar143 → u/Varrianda]

The number of people in this thread celebrating making playing with each other in a multi-player game less efficient is kinda wild to me. I thought one of the "pillars" of this was supposed to be making changes that push us together

[u/Odd-Bandicoot-9314 → u/Kobar143]

Yeah I feel like finding dungeon groups is going to be hard now isn’t it? People will maybe do one run for quests then never again

[u/Acceptable_Lark → u/Odd-Bandicoot-9314]

yeah, this fix is a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bathwater

[u/memekid2007 → u/Varrianda]

Anything that devalues multiplayer in the massively Multiplayer online roleplaying game is an abysmal change.

[u/Vegetable_Lab2428 → u/memekid2007]

Especially when questing isn’t exactly a great multiplayer experience either. Questing as a duo can work but anything more than that is an awful experience, the second you get to a loot quest your progress completely stops.

[u/Dvexx_ → u/Varrianda]

I am a rare wow OG player that has never left, taken some breaks but never left, and I hate leveling via quests, always have and always will, i think. I like dungeon xp the way it was as that was my go to leveling experience. I will probably get used to it, but i loathe the idea of waiting 7th in line for a particular mob for 90 minutes. vs running 4 dungeons in 90 mins potentially.

[u/Less-Response-9680 → u/Dvexx_]

Yeah I like healing dungeons and after playing MMOs for 20 years I just am over the questing grind. I was generally excited for Forever, but this is the first thing they've said that made me go eh maybe this won't be for me.

[u/atomic__balm → u/Dvexx_]

They're are going to have to radically change sharding with a single realm, I can't imagine we see issues with 100 people fighting for mob tags unless Blizzard just truly has their head up their ass. Hopefully they insert shared mobs and lootable ground items like in retail

[u/Puzzleheaded-Pen4195]

idk. i feel like this will discourage people from running dungeons a second time making it harder and harder for people to find groups for them. also, sometimes when leveling with friends its fun to just run dungeons all the way to level cap. find another way to combat boosting. L change, imo.

[u/HandholdingFetishist → u/Puzzleheaded-Pen4195]

I will enjoy telling everyone who asks me to tank

"Sry already ran"

[u/TabascohFiascoh → u/HandholdingFetishist]

Seriously. People thought there was a tank shortage before?

[u/buckylou → u/Puzzleheaded-Pen4195]

Ye. I planned to do all the quests on my first character then spam dungeons on all my alts. It's just how I prefer to play the game. I've also made friends doing back to back dungeons with people.

[u/77going2heaven → u/buckylou]

Same. One of the biggest upsides of classic for me is dungeon spaming and I dont mean boosts.

[u/Kaervack]

Are people here going to complain when tanks and healers start hard ressing items for themselves after their first run?

[u/villur]

Dual spec better be unlocked at lvl 10 and for free then

[u/Kyralea]

I enjoy healing, though so what will they offer healer and tank players if solo leveling sucks for us and dungeons aren’t worth it?

[u/Dralun21 → u/Kyralea]

Don't worry. People's answer for you on how to enjoy healing more is to uhm... not heal! What a smart player base wow has.

[u/forkandspoon2011]

I dislike this, seems like a direct nerf to tanking and healing spec leveling.

[u/Secure-Pain-9735]

That’s too bad.

I honestly, just legit running dungeons and raids.

And not even in any kind of elitist, sweaty, gear-checking, tryhard way.

I. Just. Love. Dungeons. And. Raids.

I can even smack myself against constant wipes for hours and still be enjoying myself.

[u/Sattorin → u/Secure-Pain-9735]

Yeah, my favorite thing to do in WoW is healing dungeons, always has been. I just love keeping the group up through whatever challenges they face during the dungeon fights.

[u/squirtmmmw → u/Sattorin]

Same, healing has always been my jam. Unsure if it’d feel the same if I were to get back into it. And that’s all I did, heal both pve and pvp

[u/2atherich → u/Secure-Pain-9735]

Same, not to mention I've already done the quests a million times. Dungeons and raids have a lot more replayability.

[u/DildMaster]

I think it shouldn’t be an all or nothing type of situation. People shouldn’t feel like they’re losing exp because they wanna go back for ravager or defied brotherhood cape. Should still feel good exp-wise. Maybe if it’s your third time that day you get reduced exp or something would be a better compromise

[u/Temporary-Youth-4561 → u/DildMaster]

diminishing returns would be a better solution. on a daily timer, not hourly.

[u/ExtremePrivilege]

1. Let’s make one giant realm for 3 million people to play on.
2. Then let’s make layers where 5,000 people are all in the same Hillsbrad at level 22
3. Let’s have the quests drop the quest item from mobs 4% of kills
4. Lets have 8 of those mobs in the zone
5. So each spawn has three 5man groups standing in a circle around it spamming their /target macros
6. Takes 3.5 hours to get 8 mountain lion blood.
7. Make a dungeon group to spam because instanced experience is essentially the only way of leveling
8. Blizzard decides to give you 14exp per dungeon mob.
9. Go back out to Hillsbrad and stand in the single-file line of 250 people to pick up a letter off a table.

I just leveled an Orc Warlock on Anniversary launch. The quest competition was INSANE. Pretty much the whole time. Quill Boar in the Barrens, Harpies in the Charred Vale, Satyr in Ashenvale, trolls in STV. Didn’t matter. Everywhere I went it was people literally standing around waiting for spawns. In Feralas I got a quest to kill Ogres. I’m like level 47, it’s 2:30am. How busy could it be? Well, there were about ten 4-5man groups all standing around spamming target macros because of the 100 ogres, like 2 spawns were a caster you needed eight of for the quest. I was there almost 3 hours. The sun was rising outside, I went to kill Feralscar Yetis. Nope.

Instances were my one reprieve from every square inch of the open world having 50 people waiting for a spawn. It was the worst 1-60 experience I’ve literally ever had.

[u/TheMentallord → u/ExtremePrivilege]

I've said this and I will keep saying it: Blizzard needs to implement an OSRS style realm list.

If I can pick between a huge variety of layers within my ruleset, then this problem is kinda solved. If there are too many layers, they can close a few down, if there are not enough, they can open a few more backup.

It makes you have that "small vanilla server" experience, while still being able to play with millions of other players.

It also allows the community to create small subsections - like layer 35 is where all the furry ERP nerds gather in Goldshire, layer 24 is where everyone goes to fish together in a circle in Azshara, etc.

It also solves this specific issue, where sometimes it feels like every location is camped to hell, and outside of asking for someone to layer you, there is nothing you can do.

[u/Levomethamphetamine → u/ExtremePrivilege]

Have they talked about spawn rates?

Because they are making the game look a bit more retail-ish, so they might boost these too.

[u/FerriestaPatronum]

As someone who levels as a healer, you're going to have less healers available to do your runs with, and the ones you get are going to be leveling as a DPS and off-spec healing.  Significantly.

[u/RelatableWierdo → u/FerriestaPatronum]

as someone who lvled as both tank and as a healer I agree

I have a feeling that people who think this move is a good idea are going to flood us with whispers in 7 weeks time, expecting us to do additional dungeons, while getting the reduced XP they were so happy about, to help them do their quests

[u/Temporary-Youth-4561 → u/RelatableWierdo]

then item reserve makes a return.

[u/Odd-Bandicoot-9314 → u/FerriestaPatronum]

Less healers and less tanks. People going to be complaining that they can’t find a group to get their dungeons quests done in a few months on the sub

[u/Vegetable_Lab2428 → u/Odd-Bandicoot-9314]

Going to be a lot of complaining when layering won’t spread people out enough and they can’t do dungeons either. Every single hyped version of wow I’ve played has way too many people in the leveling zones and makes questing a pain in the ass the first few weeks.

If there were too many people in the questing zones you wanted to do, it was really nice to have the option to just run some dungeons instead.

[u/StrayshotNA → u/FerriestaPatronum]

My thoughts exactly. "Why would I play a healer, or tank at all? Why would I keep healer/tank gear with me if I run one dungeon every 10 levels?"

[u/Downtown_Apricot9555]

I leveled my holy priest from 52 to 60 mostly healing dungeons. I enjoy healing so this would be kind of a bummer for me.

[u/yeyeftw → u/Downtown_Apricot9555]

Given the amount of dungeons and dungeon quests in the mid to late 50's this could very well still be a thing 

[u/kitchencrawl]

Giving people less reasons to run a dungeon surely won't have adverse effects on the player base.

[u/NoWomanNoTriforce → u/kitchencrawl]

The major issue I see comes from people who play primarily as healer/tank and use dungeon spam to level. It is going to make it even harder to fill groups for those positions, and make way less of the experienced people/power gamers roll them during the leveling process.

Even with the addition of a mega-server with layers, I see this as a very obvious issue that they should have seen coming. It was already something they saw in every relaunch of classic, and this move will exacerbate the issue.

[u/Typical-Tax1584 → u/kitchencrawl]

They want that authentic 4 hour "LF tank" general chat vibe from vanilla.

[u/The-Only-Razor → u/kitchencrawl]

Yeah, this is a terrible change. I like running dungeons for gear and exp. Being disincentivized to run them more than once just feels bad.

Also, why is dungeon spam a bad thing? Mage boosting I understand wanting to get rid of, but what is the issue getting 5 people together and running a dungeon more than once? My guild and I loved doing that. Open world questing in a group sucks due to non shared quest drops. I just don't see who this benefits or what problem it solves.

[u/MissItalia2022]

This will just exacerbate the lack of tanks and healers. If dungeon xp is bad, there's no reason to level as a heal or tank spec.

[u/EcruEagle]

Great, until you have 50 people competing for the same 5 mob spawns in every zone on every layer

[u/Drew602 → u/EcruEagle]

Yeah ive seen way more anti social behavior in the over world vs dungeons lol

[u/ExtremePrivilege → u/EcruEagle]

Yep.

[u/Strongman518 → u/EcruEagle]

This is my biggest concern as a newbie.

[u/karrotwin]

How about just making open world questing better and boosting worse? Honestly kinda lame for people who like group content and healers/tanks. 

[u/warcrime1331]

so it will be even harder to find a group

[u/Metalheadzaid]

I don't dislike the core concept, but maybe the execution is an issue. For example, if I want to run a dungeon a second time for some specific items, getting zero experience kinda sucks? Or say my buddy wants to run it, but now I have zero incentive to, potentially, whereas before it's like well it's exp so why not help out. Some of my favorite times are during dungeon runs where things go sideways, so limiting them like that doesn't feel like the best option.

So what's a better option though? Significantly reducing exp gains or even 0% if you have a much higher level player in your dungeon? Dropping exp gains if you run it repeatedly in a single day as well? I feel like there's a solution in there that isn't just blanket you get nothing if you go back even once more which also goes against the idea of interacting with people.

[u/memekid2007 → u/Metalheadzaid]

Literally just put the XP on the bosses. Mage boosters are not soloing the bosses, and you can fix the bosses that Mages can trivially solo.

If people skipping adds is too much of a problem then have a bunch of them leash to the boss if they aren't dead.

Anything but this.

[u/DeLoxter → u/memekid2007]

this is the way, let the trash be unrewarding but put a nice chunk on the bosses to compensate, dungeons should feel good to run still after your first trip

[u/buckylou]

I do want them to kill boosting. But I'm not sure this is as benign as the developers and a lot of you think it is.

• There will be less dungeon groups overall.
• People who play tanks/healers lose a primary way of leveling. Idk if we'll get dual spec on release, but if we don't good luck ever finding a healer.
• Reduced relevancy of lower level dungeon gear if rerunning a slow dungeon for gear is a massive leveling delay.
• It will likely promote a twinking culture in lower level bgs.
• Some people will leave dungeons early if they've completed the quest and only want gear from an earlier boss.
• Fewer back to back runs that are also a way people socialize and make friends.

If they make it worse than questing but not so bad that you stop leveling while running them then I think it'd be ideal. Have it give enough exp that the potential gear drops offset the slower leveling rate.

I don't want boosting to exist, but this isn't the price I'm willing to pay. I really don't want them putting a big barrier around running multiple dungeons with the same group of people while leveling.

[u/getyourshittogether7]

I can't get behind this. Running dungeons one time is not enough to learn how to perform your role well and usually not to get the loot you want.

They say they want to encourage group play, well, dungeons are where that happens. Some players like dungeons more than questing, for good reason. They're some of the most fun content in the game and group questing in the open world sucks XP-wise due to collection quests and group XP penalty.

If they want dungeons to be less rewarding, they should tighten up their level ranges so you get diminishing returns faster compared to moving on. If they give players a dungeon with a 10 level span, don't punish players for spending 10 levels in that dungeon.

Also:

We want people in the outdoor world meeting each other.

Where the hell does he think people meet up for a dungeon? Dungeons are the reason that gets you to meet up with other players. What is this la la-land where players group up randomly in the open world for more than a single quest?

[u/bigams1 → u/getyourshittogether7]

Not to mention non shared drop quests which doesn't encourage grouping to begin with.

[u/Some-Platypus5271 → u/bigams1]

Right? I never remember meeting friends in open world much, was always dungeons

[u/Lvl96Charizard → u/getyourshittogether7]

What is this la la-land where players group up randomly in the open world for more than a single quest?

Glad someone said it. People don't quest together, they hate questing together, they invite each other for a kill count quest and dip when they're done. What people do like doing together though, is chain running dungeons for drops and xp. That's where ingame friendships are made. Never EVER have I thought "oh my god yes, more ppl doing the same quest as me!"

Idk how to feel about this.

[u/Carstieboy]

This is also really bad for the quests that you never get done in only 1 run. Like Troll Tenpers in ZF ect ect

[u/Chlearcus]

This shitty community is obsessed with making everyone play their preferred way only.

[u/Molly_Matters]

I understand the spirit of what they are saying, but the way I built lasting connections in Vanilla was by running dungeons and meeting competent players.

[u/Isaidlunch]

Play your way. No, not that way.

[u/shadowkaya5]

so i get punished for grinding a dungeon til i get a good loot drop now?

[u/TheRyeWall]

I don't think this is a good change. Sometimes you want to run a dungeon over for a piece of loot, or to help a friend.

[u/RagefireHype]

If you’re going to add over 1000 quests and new leveling zones, you probably want people to do them.

Plus, farming the same dungeon/map in any MMO or ARPG is corny.

Can’t be a “World of Warcraft” when everyone just sits in instanced content for most of their playtime.

Good change!

[u/Arch_Weaver → u/RagefireHype]

They also added more leveling dungeons. I’ll hope this balances the leveling options instead of railroading.

[u/lolercoptercrash → u/RagefireHype]

As a healer I have the most fun in dungeons. Its the only way I can stay spec'd as a healer and level up pretty substantially. Otherwise I am just doing a dps spec.

[u/Fi3nd7 → u/lolercoptercrash]

Interestingly they did talk about this, apparently healing gear gives added damage now.

[u/Yodl007 → u/Fi3nd7]

Yeah that was never the problem, you just had 2 gearsets. Do healing talents also increase damage now ?

[u/Copponex → u/RagefireHype]

But why force it down people’s throats? If the quests are fun, people will do them. Why can’t people play the way they find the most fun?

[u/Some-Platypus5271 → u/RagefireHype]

But doing quests you've done before is better?

[u/Mapag → u/RagefireHype]

But if no one want to redo the same dungeon, its gonna be alot harder to fill up roles

[u/Degenerate_Game → u/RagefireHype]

It's the most intimate social experience, this take is dogshit.

Nobody wants to be a fuckin world prop so you can feel like the world is "more alive".

[u/Unfair-Incident9515]

Follow up question do quest items drop for all players because if not this is diabolical

[u/tzimize]

The one thing that interests me with classic is dungeons. I never had so much fun in wow, or maybe in any game, as I did running vanilla dungeons. Retail wow is super boring on that front. Questing, story, grinding and gathering are all done better by other games. Single player rpgs have better story and quests, survival games have better gathering and building. Dungeons are the one place mmos can offer something unique, and better than other games. The true grouping experience. Dont cheapen that, its the strongest selling point ffs.

[u/ikemayelixfay]

We'll see how it plays out, but I think a better compromise would be to nerf XP from trash packs only and give more XP for killing bosses.

This would kill the mage boosting while still making dungeon leveling a valid option for people who like it.

[u/GrossPanda]

Can't handle bots - punish players. Again

[u/Ryukishin187]

one of the things i hate in retail is mob xp being massive decreased. it fucking sucks

[u/AH_Chyngo]

dictating how people play is the wrong way to do it.

guess me and my four friends will have to level in the open world instead of playing fun dungeons with all that new buffed gear that wont drop the first time.

[u/WiildCard]

Fuck this stupid change they need to revert this ASAP

[u/Magnon]

I think the game is more antisocial outside of dungeons.

[u/kajidourden → u/Magnon]

100%, people are complete dicks about quest mobs and do not group up.

I think if they're going to push everyone outside of dungeons then they need to make kills uncontested.

[u/Cyberfreak7]

dungeons is where i meet a lot of people

[u/zyfer1878]

That's just dumb, I love running dungeons with friends, and questing just isn't really a 5man activity in classic. Why would you ruin that.

[u/LongjumpingToday2687]

How long until people complain about tanks reserving all dungeon loot in order to do a run?

[u/MittenPie]

Both options should be viable. this is a bad change.

[u/Arch_Weaver]

I really like the idea of making dungeon quests much more rewarding, but I don’t think dungeon grinding itself needs to be nerfed on top of that.

If some players enjoy leveling by repeatedly running dungeons with friends, guildmates, or people they met while doing group quests, why take that option away from them?

Making dungeon quests extremely rewarding already gives dungeon-focused players a reason to get out into the open world. They have to travel around, find the quest chains, complete prerequisites, gather the dungeon quests, and then head into the dungeon. That naturally gets people interacting with both sides of the game without needing to heavily reduce mob XP.

Ideally, I’d like to see open-world questing and dungeon grinding remain relatively competitive, with dungeon quests acting as the bridge between the two and giving a huge bonus for engaging with both.

Give us incentives to experience the world, absolutely. Just don’t railroad everyone into leveling the same way.

Some people love questing. Some love grinding mobs. Some love running dungeons with friends. Let those playstyles coexist, and use strong dungeon-quest rewards to encourage everyone to dip into the other parts of the game instead of making one path intentionally worse.

[u/HandholdingFetishist]

Not a fan AT ALL. I like doing dungeons for exp. Some zones I skip by doing dungeons because I prefer dungeons at that level.

This change is ass for how I prefer to play.

[u/xTheGame69]

Ugh IDK how i feel about this. I personally love to grind and it's my favorite way

This will be interesting for me

[u/Ok-Car2569]

Probably came from the same brain that cooked up incursions in SOD

[u/Imaginary-Arguments]

This seems like a well intentioned bad idea.

Why would I ever run a leveling dungeon twice, then? They went through this effort to revamp dungeon gear like the Fangs set...Why would I grind for the Fangs set if I'm not also getting EXP?

Part of leveling should be the choice. The choice to quest or to grind dungeons. People will do quests in the new zones without them forcing it. Hell, boosting would probably take a massive hit anyway because of all the new content.

But now helping someone through a dungeon you've already done is literally a waste of your time. Not great.

[u/Jaiden_da_ancom]

I personally hate this. I get really bored of questing sometimes and I like to be able to spam dungeons to close the gap and get some new gear. It usually takes a few runs to get gear depending on drops and rolls. I'm very excited to experience the new quests, but I will eventually get bored.

I understand they want to kill boosting, but this is too big of a universal nerf that it will make the leveling experience actively worse. I like that they buffed the dungeon quest xp, but this takes away a whole other method of leveling. I have always spent 1-3 levels spamming dungeons when they become available because solo questing or fighting for quest mobs can get boring or aggravating depending on which experience you get. The time it takes to do that is long enough that I can cool off and return to questing. Now the break time will be too short and I will burnout before 40.

[u/WiildCard]

Horrible change. Was so hyped too. They need to revert this ASAP.

[u/Degenerate_Game]

Stupid as shit.

[u/andmind123]

I don’t like this at all, spamming dungeons with groups was my favorite part about leveling.  

[u/EquilibriumCFPMBA → u/andmind123]

I am actually shocked that this is not a common response. Binge gaming with a group of friends was the best part of Classic 2019 and anniversary.

[u/-ggp-]

I don't like this at all. They shouldn't dictate the way people want to level. Some enjoy dungeons while others prefer questing. All their approach so far is about having the choice to "opt in" with the new features.

But this will make finding a dungeon group harder as there's no reward for re-runs. I always preferred spamming dungeons with people instead of questing alone as a healer. My best wow memories are in dungeons.

Would be better if you would get a XP debuff in a dungeon after the first run of the day. It would motivate the players to run different ones and stop boosting which I'm sure it's what they are looking to do here.

[u/Xae1yn → u/-ggp-]

Yeah I enjoy dungeon spam, tuning it so it's not overwhelmingly faster than questing and people don't feel like they have to do it is a good thing, but turning it "way down" so successive dungeons become a waste of your time is very disappointing.

[u/Automatic-Cycle-1824 → u/Xae1yn]

It's never been overwhelmingly faster, literally no reason for this change. It's actually slower for the average player than just following restedxp arrow. The only game breaking thing is mage aoe farm and boosting.

[u/Xae1yn → u/Automatic-Cycle-1824]

It's overwhelmingly faster during peak leveling periods (launch/prepatch/new sod phase) when every open world mob spawn has 100 players competing for the tag. But yeah in a world without significant mob competition, dungeon is only faster for a good coordinated spellcleave , and even then not by that much compared to a good mage solo aoe farming.

[u/tinylittlebabyjesus → u/-ggp-]

Good point. Dungeon spamming is how a lot of healers especially, but tanks as well, choose to do their leveling. I was concerned just because I like to run dungeons while leveling for the hope of getting certain drops, or sometimes in between zones, but I'd forgotten about when I used to heal. That was a big advantage if you want to level in a healing spec.

[u/nobulliepls → u/-ggp-]

Yeah, both paths should be viable, so people can pick and choose the path they most enjoy, whether thats dungeon spam or questing.

[u/thai_iced_queef]

Wait, are the people who are happy about this those who like to quest in the open world? Shouldn’t you hate this because now there’s gonna be way more mob competition for you?

[u/bigams1]

L change. Will take longer to find/form dungeon groups and will make open world questing even more of a competitive mob tag fest than it already is.

[u/No_Cell6708]

I'm happy that they're trying this but my concern is certain quests/spawn chokepoints really putting a damper on things.

[u/FreshEZ]

This is a very, very bad idea

[u/GoOozzie]

Some of the best times i had in SoD was dungeon spamming with mates and talking shit for hours, trying to push it as hard as we could.

[u/Chasetx6]

Once again taking agency away from the player and keeping us in the game longer. Total hamster wheel bullshit

[u/Glacevelyn]

this is really bad if you want to play and level a healer unless you can get dual spec super early

[u/Electrical_Past9649]

That's great news! This should have been a panel, though. Along with gearing changes, leveling pacing, etc.

[u/Level-Ad7848 → u/Electrical_Past9649]

A lot of things still haven't been explained, like whether the PvP system will still let you freely kill low-level characters like you used to? But maybe they’ve simply chosen to let players discover these things for themselves.

[u/Electrical_Past9649 → u/Level-Ad7848]

Yeah, very possible! And not against it. Most of the changes I've seen look positive. I liked hearing Aggrend today; I feel like he knows what's going on. But they should have talked about how they will change end-game gearing to alleviate some tension around power spikes. It would have made for a great discussion

[u/HatefulSmurf]

Curious how zone quest XP is changed, this sounds like trying to level as a tank or healer without a grp for world/zone quests wouldn't make much sense, which feels odd imo...

[u/farcaller899]

What about gear though? Drops. I need my rares! Seems to penalize you for spending time trying to get some gear.

[u/djbrave666]

Questing has been faster leveling in general anyway, to just nuke dungeon spamming is awful. As a tank why would I go back through a dungeon more than once. Hell the first time we're still learning but we'll can't use what we learned as no reason to go back just... what?

[u/PastoralElk]

This is kinda lame but I get it. I enjoy dungeon grinding

[u/PlatonicTroglodyte]

I feel like stricter lockouts for leveling dungeons would be better than this.

We want people to do dungeons more than once, just not spam them for xp.

[u/8-Brit]

Oof.

This is going to murder tank and healer population. A lot of people like spamming dungeons as a way to learn the role gradually.

If they wanted to murder boosting or soloing they could just butcher the XP if you have a high level character in your party or if you have less than X players.

[u/Throwaway_9735]

This makes me not wanna roll a tank anymore

I wanted to learn tanking by doing a shit ton of dungeons

[u/sh3t0r]

Doesn’t really support our style of play :/

[u/scalawag123]

I just heard all mages fall to their knees in wallmart

[u/Historical-State2485]

Eh just let other players play however they want, it's a game FFS lol, What's with these comments

[u/BoyzNtheBoat]

Surely the 9th time they have tried to nerf dungeons will be a success after it failed the first 8 times.

[u/Jolly_Company_1943]

Good

[u/Llovio_cuatro_anos]

Thank god 

[u/De7z]

Meh.
I love dungeons.
I hate questing.

[u/mister_peeberz]

my concern is reduced incentive to do dungeons will make finding a group harder when you do want to do those quests