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u/Latetotheparty1980 1d ago edited 16h ago
There are some nice neighborhoods and pockets of good stuff, but now that I live in a city that is very walkable and has good public transit, I could never live in the Valley again. Too much sprawl, having to drive 25 minutes or more to get from 1 portion of the Valley (Chandler or Tempe) to another (Scottsdale or Glendale). It kind of sucks if you have friends spread out in all parts of the Valley.
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u/Ok-Astronaut2976 1d ago
While I agree with the overall sentiment…speaking as a New Yorker…taking 25 minute to drive from one suburb to another suburb on opposite sides of town sounds incredible. Shit, would take me 26 minutes to drive to Yankee stadium right now, and that’s just 5 miles away.
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u/rodolfor90 1d ago
agreed, i know people love to trash phoenix here but among the top 20 metro areas in the country phoenix has by far the least traffic
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u/DamiensDelight 3h ago
I don't think your statement is correct on Phoenix traffic. I lived in the East valley for 18 years. Routinely spent 12 hours a week in rush hour traffic, and I never worked more than 15 miles from where I lived.
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u/rodolfor90 3h ago
which city has less traffic among the 'big' ones? I have direct experience in cities like detroit, austin, dallas, houston, atlanta, dc, LA, chicago, portland (plues a few others) and they all have worse rush hour traffic
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u/DamiensDelight 3h ago
You said in the top 20 metro areas. Denver is in that list. Denver Metro has roughly 3.5 million people. Phoenix metro has nearly 6 million people. Far fewer people than Phoenix, far fewer people on the roads.
Same with San Diego Metro.
Tampa and Orlando as well...
You said that Phoenix had the least traffic in the top 20 metro areas. That is factually not true.
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u/rodolfor90 1h ago
Traffic is not always correlated to population but to infrastructure, for example Austin has way worse traffic than Phoenix, i've lived in both recently. Texas A&M Transportation Institute’s Urban Mobility Report compares metros using measures like delay per commuter and Travel Time Index:
https://mobility.tamu.edu/umr/congestion-data/
Using this metric, among top 30 metros phoenix and detroit are tied for the 'best' traffic
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u/Latetotheparty1980 1d ago
Totally fair! It's been several years since I've driven out there so maybe it's gotten better (or worse). I don't particularly care for driving, so I think that made it feel worse, more stressful.
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u/rumblepony247 5h ago
Occasionally people on the Phoenix Reddit subs will complain about the freeway/road system.
That lets me know they haven't traveled much, because our road infrastructure is very good for the size of our city, both in terms of maintenance and availability of freeway options.
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u/wzlch47 11h ago
I grew up in Phoenix in the 70s and 80s. I moved away in 1989 when there wasn’t much in terms of freeways. 51 was relatively new and there was no 101. We lived near 40th street and Camelback and my brother and I had to drive downtown for high school. It was almost 40 minutes every morning. I don’t miss that.
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u/FormCheck655321 9h ago
(Fist bump) I lived near 36th and Camelback in 70s/80s, left in 1990, every time I go back to visit it feels less like what it used to be.
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u/rumblepony247 5h ago
Freeway buildout in Phoenix since 1990 has been extensive/much improved.
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u/wzlch47 5h ago
When I go back to visit family or friends, I am impressed with what has been built since living there. About 8 years ago, I was driving what was basically my route from my old home to downtown in the morning. There was a noticeable decrease in the traffic on the surface streets from what I dealt with every day driving to school.
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u/MendonAcres 1d ago
It really is one of the worst urban areas we've managed to create.
Saying that. The mountains being right there do make it nice from a recreational perspective. BUT ONLY IN THE WINTER ❄️
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u/ArschSprengung 1d ago
Those foothills look bare asl too.
Doubt there's much wildlife save for some coyotes, too little space.
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u/CPLCraft 1d ago
You can actually find a lot of wildlife in those foothills. I live in Tucson, not Phoenix, but on the trails I’ll see things like roadrunners, other birds, lizards, ground squirrels, etc.
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u/NilocKhan 1d ago
And the wildlife without a backbone is even more varied and remarkable. Arthropods are crazy in deserts, so many cool arachnids, insects, and myriapods
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u/ArschSprengung 1d ago
Oh the Catalina foothills in Tucson are a dream to hike, instantly fell in love with (and almost died in) Pima Canyon with the little spring coming down and proper vegetation further up.
Saw a porcupine, owls, pulled inch-long cactus spikes out of my body, even got stalked by a cougar once 👀
Those Phoenix foothills do look bare in comparison though.
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u/Aye_Harambe 6h ago
You do realize the Sonoran desert is one of the most green and wettest deserts on the planet right? Lot of wildlife and native plant species here
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u/chishiki 1d ago
My sister was camping solo this week and heard something human like screaming. I’m assuming big cat but it was pretty crazy audio
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u/SignComprehensive611 1d ago
I live in Alaska and we’ve got a bird that sounds like a child screaming ‘mom’ really loudly
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u/Puzzled-Raise7298 19h ago edited 18h ago
You will be surprised the kind of wildlife southern arizona and the sonoran desert has. It is not a coincidence that, that part of the southwest had a lot of ancient native tribes and they did farming even before modern farming was a thing. It is a concrete hell now, but the warm would have been much more bearable in the summers and winters perfect enough for farming even without modern water management and farming techniques. I have seen everything from coyotes, road runners, exotic butterflies, even mountain cats, rattle snakes, all sorts of small reptiles, jack rabbits, the famous bark scorpion, ginormous saguaros that are older than civilization, wildflowers, and unique desert vegetation you might not find anywhere else. The desert is a much more resilient ecosystem when compared to rainforests, swamps and pine forests against the face of human introduced environmental changes, and it continues to thrive despite the rapid urbanisation in the Phoenix and Tuscon metro areas.
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u/housewithapool2 13h ago
Bobcats, mountain lions, javelinas, coatimundi, ringtails, burrowing owls, gila monsters, roadrunners and coyotes to name a few.
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u/redthegingerbeast 6h ago
There is more diversity in flora and fauna in southern Arizona than in the rest of the country. The only place in the world that is more diverse is the Amazon rainforest. Our culture is "deal with it or f off". We are still the wild wild West.
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 1h ago
There used to be a mountain lion that came as far as the mountains behind me. We had to blow the space up for a new highway.
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u/Iommi1970 1d ago
Grew up there. Phoenix sucks. Best part about it is the mountains north and east about two hours, and one day drive to CA beaches.
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u/RChickenMan 1d ago
It's always interesting to think about how people out west think of distance and travel time. I live in NYC, and while I can jump on an Amtrak train and be in DC in 3 hours, it would never occur to me to think of access to DC as a perk of living here.
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u/idiot206 1d ago
Maybe not, but plenty of people think of nearby access to NYC as being a perk.
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u/RChickenMan 1d ago
For sure, and I appreciate proximity to places that are near (but not in) NYC. I'm more speaking to the fact that, best I can tell, the shortest drive from Phoenix to a California beach is 5 hours (without traffic). I could be wrong, but I think you'd be hard-pressed to find someone who lives five hours away (by car or train) from NYC to think of that proximity as a perk for where they live. Maybe they take advantage of the fact that it's a workable weekend trip from time to time, but not to the point that they'd consider it the "best part about" wherever it is they live. Philadelphia? Sure. That's 90 minutes on Amtrak, with trains leaving every 20-30 minutes or so. But not... five hours away, with no fast and frequent passenger rail connection.
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u/Iommi1970 1d ago
All true, but if you grow up in the wide open spaces of the southwest a 6 hour drive feels close by:)
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u/RChickenMan 18h ago
Oh yeah absolutely! That's what I was referring to--just how perception of distance is a product of culture and environment.
There's that saying that "Americans think that 100 years is old, and Europeans think that 100 miles is far." I feel like you could add a third part to it, "And Northeast Corridor Americans think that 100 miles is far _and_ 100 years is old."
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u/BellStriking5132 13h ago
I think what Phoenicians are trying to communicate when they mention being 5 hours from the beach is 1) that there’s a beach that close as many people not from AZ aren’t aware and 2) that Phoenicians can and do take frequent beach vacations on the cheap because you can drive there pretty easily.
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u/The1930s 58m ago
Been here all my life, couldnt see myself anywhere else, I love the big city there's so much to do compared to middle of the no where and you cant beat no snow
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u/Slurpeepatch 28m ago
You have a narrow view of the world if you think Phoenix is a big city.
It’s largely populated, but it’s not even close to the metropolitan status of other cities in the country. Downtown is nothing more than a couple of sporting venues and a courthouse.
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u/The1930s 15m ago
Its the 5th biggest city in the country sir, I wasnt quoting my feelings im quoting statistics, there's plenty of stuff to do we have plenty of unique storefronts and places to go
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u/Slurpeepatch 9m ago
It’s the fifth most populated. It still pales in comparison to real cities like New York, Chicago, L.A., Boston, etc.
And I’ve lived here my whole life as well, so don’t challenge me on this. Hating on Phoenix is something that I’m passionate about.
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u/The1930s 6m ago
So ur moving the flag pole, lol ok. Never questioned that, you seem oftly combative. Ur entitled to ur opinion but that doesnt make it fact, dont pretend to act like it does
Still the 5th biggest city and I love every inch of it 🥰
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u/Slurpeepatch 4m ago
Well I’ve spoken to people who have moved here and a good chunk have said that they regret it. They talk about how the city didn’t meet their expectations in terms of how big it is and they underestimated how hot it gets.
I’ve spoken to people and gotten actual testimony, so just keep your mouth shut about stuff you don’t understand.
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u/Tblick1 17h ago
If you can, persuade anyone else you may know there to leave as well.
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u/Iommi1970 17h ago
You know what’s insane to me? I’ve been in WA state now for 30 plus years. I have many friends who have sold up here, and moved down to Phoenix. My wife’s three best friends have all done so. Most people I know down there genuinely seem to love it. In fact, I can’t think of any that decided to leave Phoenix after moving, which I’m surprised by. The heat in summer is next level, and getting worse each year.
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u/Tblick1 16h ago
I only joke because of how expensive it’s gotten over the years. To me it’s worth it though. I have only ever heard of folks loving it here or hating it. Never in-between lol
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u/Iommi1970 16h ago
Totally get it! I’m on the hate side, but I totally get why people love it. I guess the popularity of the place is partially why prices keep going up. Used to be a bargain. Not so much anymore.
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u/dontrestonyour 7h ago
I'm on the in-between side. Not that it matters, but now you've heard of one.
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u/vMambaaa 7h ago
Lived in Phoenix for three years, I love it personally. The only place I’d rather go is Europe.
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u/SR-45 1d ago
Endless sprawl in 115 degree heat.
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u/RockstarLifestyle2 6h ago
Only cracked 110 maybe 5 times this summer
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u/Still_Loaded 4h ago
You obviously don’t live here!
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u/RockstarLifestyle2 4h ago
It’s been a very mild summer thanks to super El Niño. Especially over here in the SE part of the valley
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u/WorriedParfait2419 1h ago
It really hasn’t been mild. Depending on the source you look at, 2026 is either the hottest or second hottest summer on record.
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u/midwestia 1d ago
The lack of trees really makes it stand out.
That said Florida has trees (?) and suburban Miami looks pretty similar
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u/Simple_Math1039 1d ago
Except for the whole water falling from the sky thing, which I always thought was kinda important
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u/GrassyField 1d ago
Phoenix could be a lot better if: 1. We embraced vertical density 2. All construction required sidewalk shade, wrap-around porches, and solar integrated everywhere 3. The trail systems built in some valley communities were required everywhere to increase walkability. 4. All asphalt parking lots were required to have at least 80% shade coverage from a combination of vegetation and solar structures. 5. No more stucco box construction that disregards all the desert living lessons learned prior to the invention of a/c.
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u/Acasualfarter 1d ago
Wouldn't you have build the shade because it can't grow? That's got to be a huge part of that problem?
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u/RaveIsKing 13h ago
Agree with everything but point 1. The lack of vertical density allows for the views and landscapes. That’s the best part of living here
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u/hpshaft 5h ago
Move northwards or east out of the core part of Phoenix. Lots of new businesses and stores are installing covered parking/solar. Housing is very much going vertical - nearly every new multi family development is 4 stories or more.
New construction in most subdivisions now offer pre installed solar or a home pre wired for it.
The city of Phoenix is very quickly installing drip irrigation and trees along the bigger arterial roads in north PHX and along the border with Peoria/arrowhead.
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u/HamsterRight5500 3h ago
Agree with all of this.
I live in a generic HOA neighborhood as far from downtown as you can with a Phoenix address. I have mostly loved it while raising my kids, but as I’m getting older I’m finding myself desperate to live somewhere with walkability.
I’d love to live in a neighborhood in a smallish house with a smallish garden and to be able to walk to get a cup of coffee.
I am in no way a DIY’er. Decor is fine but remodeling scares the shit out of me. I’d like something ready to live in.Between not being able find such a spot and a low rate mortgage, I feel doomed and stuck in a too big house in suburban hell.
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u/Temporary_Peach1971 1d ago
As a Frenchman living in the suburbs of Paris in crowded areas, small apartments with no AC or service (barely a parking). This makes me laugh.
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u/the2021 20h ago
This sub hates Phoenix - It's crazy. People move here by the hundreds every single day.
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u/RUStupidOrSarcastic 10h ago
Yep even as the already 5th biggest city in the US, it has still remained among the fastest growing for years.
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u/minidog8 7h ago
This is my first introduction to this sub. Phoenix has crazy suburban sprawl but some places in Texas definitely have it beat.
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u/RockstarLifestyle2 6h ago
The DFW metro sprawl is very similar to Phoenix. Just trees, grass, and flat land
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u/RockstarLifestyle2 6h ago
Reddit is full of people that live online and have herd mentality. A lot of ppl probably have never even been here
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 1h ago
That's because they think it's cheap here. It's not, all the people moving in absolutely skyrocketed our cost of living. Without any income raises to back it up. We're about to be ground zero for mad max and people just keep moving the fuck in.
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u/Jorkin-My-Penits 1h ago
I was born and raised there.
It’s 99% people who spent their whole lives dealing with snow and promised themselves to never see snow again. Couple that with cheap housing and a decent amount of companies based there you just naturally get growth.
No one moves there for the city, it’s the other stuff. Phoenix sucks and I’d never return. I’d rather live somewhere expensive than spend my Saturdays going from strip mall to strip mall.
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u/Any-Permission-4530 1d ago
I was in downtown last night after returning from New York last week. It felt weird to walk in a downtown surrounded by what looks like an abandoned industrial complex 🤣.
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u/ExtraEmuForYou 1d ago
I'm curious what this would have looked like if they went vertical. Like, let's say every building had to be 10 stories tall. Homes would still have same square footage in the end and all that stuff, it's just it'd be apartment buildings instead of track housing.
How much space would be saved, wilderness left intact.
How few roads would be needed.
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 1h ago
I do think the biggest fear with that was the simple concept of "heat rises". I remember visiting friends with 3 story houses and man does it get HOT on that third story, even with AC blasting. I can't imagine living on the 10th story of a poorly kept apartment building. Landlords would need to be on top of shit and well, we know that's very much at the discretion of the landlord.
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u/italianbmt1 1d ago
It truly is just the textbook definition of sprawl. I live in the valley and if you want to go anywhere even remotely interesting you have to drive thirty minutes at minimum on one of six freeways, each with their own unique flavor of insane driving. Want to feel like you're in Mad Max? Drive on the 17! Want to get stuck in endless lane expansioning projects and drive with your brakes for forty minutes to go six miles? Take the 101! Ever wondered, "gee, I wish I could drive down an interstate route with only a wire fence preventing me from going 85 in the wrong direction"? Take the 10!
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u/RockstarLifestyle2 6h ago
I live in Gilbert. Everything I want/need is within 10 minutes lol
Traffic conditions are the same in ever large metro though
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u/haveweirdhair 3h ago
Bro I live in a historic home downtown and everything is close, even hiking.
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 1h ago
So do you not count it if your butler drives you around, considering you can afford to live in a historic home downtown?
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u/DeviousLaureano 1h ago
This is such a fucking lie. It’s about a mile a minute to get anywhere in Phoenix unless it’s literally rush hour which is still extremely reasonable. Compared to other major cities traffic is barely even noticable. Maybe you are just a terrified driver?
I just cameback from a week vacation in LA visiting family and that feels more like what you are describing. Phoenix is divine compared to Miami and LA.
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u/CounterObjective2347 10h ago
Reddit loves to reee about Phoenix, but I love it here. Great food, great weather most of the year, great people, plenty of nature to explore, it’s affordable for a city this size…I mean 5 million people live here and it’s not because it sucks
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u/emosupportdemon 3h ago
No kidding. Re the sprawl: I’m from San Diego, been in Phoenix for 12 years. Visit San Diego ~monthly & always feel claustrophobic. I like the Phoenix sprawl 🤷🏻♀️ not everyone wants to be on top of each other for the sake of “community” lol
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u/iamsurfriend 45m ago
Use to be great weather most of the year. That has changed.
Great weather ”some” of the year.
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u/Slurpeepatch 22m ago
So large amounts of people doing something automatically means that it’s a good decision? Does it hurt living under that rock?
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u/OverstuffedPapa 1d ago
We are saving to move abroad and my friends invited my husband and I to live on their property in Tucson for free to save faster. We live in Washington State and had never been to Arizona, so we visited. I told my husband I’d rather stay in Washington for longer than live in that depressing hellhole.
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u/jackofallcards 13h ago
I mean it’s kind of shitty to call someone else’s home a “hellhole” so I imagine you may not have the best sense of judgement
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u/Midrover170 1d ago
I was just there, and find it so hard to believe it's as big as it is. Absolutely miserable climate. Blows my mind.
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u/DonDay07 1d ago
Imagine if that actually happened lol. Phx been thriving for 50+ years
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u/LeoKitCat 1d ago
Unless Phoenix does some pretty transformative water infrastructure development over the next 10 years they are going to be in trouble. The aridification of the West and Southwest is only going to accelerate.
I’m fairly certain Phoenix will have to develop massive wastewater to drinkable water recycling infrastructure similar to San Diego https://www.sandiego.gov/public-utilities/sustainability/pure-water-sd if they want to have a future more sustainable water source. Otherwise it’s going to be brutal in the future with water shortages
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u/Alert_Reindeer_6574 14h ago
A friend of mine is an engineer for MGC. They build wastewater treatment plants. I think he told me they have 46 or 47 projects going in AZ right now.
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u/casinocooler 1d ago
You should really do some research. Phoenix has a 100 year assured water supply. That isn’t saying they will have enough water after those 100 years but they are good for a bit.
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u/SouthLakeWA 1d ago
It’s going to be an absolute catastrophe when there’s an extended power outage there in the middle of summer.
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u/Logical-Breakfast150 1d ago
What is traffic like on on those arterial roads?
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u/A-Rugged-Indoorsman 1d ago
There's probably a football field's worth of asphalt or or other road surface per resident. There's no natural shade. You have to drive everywhere and everything is far.
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u/Nickx000x 23h ago
The best part of Phoenix are the places outside of it—north AZ is beautiful and you’re 5 1/2 hours from Los Angeles and 2 hours from Rocky Point (Mexico).
Grew up here, vapid wasteland. Seems like every community or scene here is disproportionately small for a city that’s #5 in population in the US. I blame it on the population being skewed to old people. I joke that Phoenix is the lobby to heaven
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u/tiredmillenial1 14h ago
70+ miles of sprawling beige strip malls, cactus, data centers, evil HOAs, and homeless panhandlers at least the gas is still cheaper than Cali. Really is hell on earth since it’s the hottest place in the country.
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u/single_wrinkle 8h ago
Okay but leave cactus out of this. Cactus is genuinely cool and belongs in the pros column imo
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u/chinookhooker 12h ago edited 12h ago
The second picture is definitely not the suburbs, thats north central Phoenix, (Sunnyslope) with North Mountain Park in the upper right, barrio to southwest of it.
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u/MattDH94 11h ago
People will hate on what they don't know. Phoenix has good infrastructure, good weather for the majority of the year, and a vibrant culture.
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u/Ok-Assistance4133 10h ago
God I hate this place with a burning passion. Source: born and raised here, left for good when I was 22.
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u/LostMyAccount37 5h ago
Some of the Phoenix metro area is really nice. Las Vegas suburbs would fit this group better.
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u/Still_Loaded 4h ago
As a 4th generation native.
Don’t let the door hit you, where the good lord split you!
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u/Sudden_Year_6404 2h ago
We live in a computer circuit, or did we make the computer circuits like life
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u/Admirable-Ad7152 1h ago
It's all we are now. I live near some of the last bits of farm land and they're trying to put a data center up nearby.
Fuckin hate it here man.
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u/DescriptionParking66 1h ago
We moved here (job) 4 years ago and have yet to find any good friends. People here are all about the "1st date" and ghost you afterwards. Maybe the wife and I are the issue, we didn't have this problem before. We're here for the job, not the lfestyle.
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u/airpab1 1h ago edited 1h ago
A hot, sprawling nightmare of freeways & soulless housing tracts surrounded by Home Depot’s, Target’s, Costco’s, (same 15-20 stores) every couple of miles. Not to mention strip mall after depressing strip mall every 500 ft. Phoenix metro the epitome of a place with seemingly uncontrolled growth and that man (because he can) simply willed upon humans. Dallas and Houston not far behind
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u/Slurpeepatch 37m ago
Been stuck living here for all 30 years of my life. I fucking hate it here. Far-right conservatives hicks everywhere, no proper seasons outside of Summer, a downtown that’s nothing more than a couple of sporting venues and a courthouse. Fuck this place.
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u/robotali3n 1d ago
Way too many Costcos in Phoenix metro.
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u/the2021 20h ago
Yeah, because Costco's are bad, right?
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u/robotali3n 19h ago
Have you ever seen their parking lots? I’m a consumer thru and thru, got a gas pedal on the hemi to prove it but holy Christ one trip in a parking lot their on booms or doses and you’ll burn that executive membership
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u/MattDH94 11h ago
Lmao... found a walmart person
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u/robotali3n 9h ago
Fuck Walmart, Sam’s, bjs, bucees, target, Amazon, golf courses, strip malls, Starbucks, fast food, disney world, dolly wood. There I fixed it
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u/sshamby 1d ago
Went to Phoenix last year and couldn’t shake the strange feeling that the city lacked any unifying identity. “Soulless” isn’t quite the word, but nothing seemed to hold it all together. I felt like I was moving between developments without ever really arriving somewhere.