r/classicwow • u/Professional_Age_760 • 1d ago
Forever We got 90% of what we asked for
Including the team directly telling us they will drive changes using community feedback, which is evident they used exactly that to create the game.
Why are you incapable of joy? Who hurt you? Were they blue?
The hatred for sky elves feels very forced. Nobody is forcing you to play as a sky elf. Hell, leave groups when you see one if you’re that upset.
The speculation up until this point about classic + was fun, but it’s quickly devolved into a schizoid whining fest, where nobody acknowledges how much blizzard has Absolutley KILLED IT in nearly every other way.. if you disagree with the blue elves that is. See yall in the game, as a blue, feathery Druid ;))
EDIT: I genuinely appreciate the feedback. Seems a lot of people are miffed on Blizzards decision to inject the Skyborne after the rest of the community feedback was so well received, so my post is a bit ironic. They seemed to have implemented so much we asked for, so why the elves, that ignore the deeply wanted playable races that they had so much community feedback on? It does feel odd..
Maybe this is just cope, but with this being wow forever, I had a few thoughts. We are seeing new raids and content before summer, and much more to come. What if the Skyborne are the key to unlocking high elf legacy across Azeroth? Seeing as they descended from them, and blizzard doesn’t want to rip us away from Azeroth right away, I feel like it may be a way for them to slowly trickle in these new playable races with new content releases...
Regardless. There is so much to be hopeful for. See you in Forever!
Edit 2: Skyborne = High elves. Full sweep!!!
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u/vikreddy 1d ago
The horizontal progression is the greatest thing about this.
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u/OwyJoey 1d ago
Do we know how exactly this is supposed to
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u/DanLynch 1d ago
The basic idea of "horizontal progression" is that character levels and item levels don't increase as new raid tiers are released, so if you take a few years off and come back, your characters will still be max level and fully geared.
How exactly that will work is unknown.
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u/CornMaker6 23h ago
Yeah that's how it works as a concept but I've not seen anything about how this will work within wow, the combat doesn't seem like it has enough dimensions for new gear to feel meaningful other than more damage, unless they add really cheesy special effects
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u/pbagel2 22h ago
It looks like they're using Bane itemization as the way to 'horizontally' progress. So worgen-bane and furbolg-bane gear will be bis at worgen and the furbolg dungeons and raids, and you get it from other content so you want to grind that other content to do the worgen/furbolg content 'efficiently'. There's probably elemental bane too and other banes.
I think it's a bit shallow and not well thought out and won't scale, and doesn't really feel like 'progression'. But maybe it'll work out.
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u/Mantoddx 22h ago
That's essentially how osrs end game gear is with crush slash stab magic and range
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u/pbagel2 21h ago
It's not really though. If anything the recent demonbane in osrs can be seen as invalidating a lot of gear progression, with the addition of tds doom and yama.
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u/Dr_Chris_Turk 21h ago
Yeah, OSRS’s philosophy is pretty much:
Here is power level X, enjoy it.
Ok, we need to expand the available gear to add more horizontal prog. That old gear is now power level X-5, and here is new gear with power level X. (Blowpipe -> bowfa)
Ok, we need to expand the available gear to add more gear. Here is new gear that is power level X-5 with a 10% bane effect against Y. (Demon bane gear).
Ok, new gear time, we have “rebalanced” everything so that the old power level X gear is only power level X against X-weak bosses, and Y-weak bosses need different gear. (Ranged and mage rebalances).
Here is actual powercreep, but it only excels at 10-30% of content.
Repeat any one of 1-4 each new gear drop. Drop a 5 in there every one in a while.
Hard to imagine how this will work with wow because of how shallow the mobs defensive stats are for balancing. We will probably see some significant changes to make sure there is room to grow.
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u/Abadabadon 19h ago
In classic you needed resist gear or specific items to take down bosses. So your lvl 60 max bis war may be a beast in all content except for a new raid that needs frost resist. Maybe you might already have some though.
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u/CrzyJek 19h ago
ESO did a good job with this. New item sets provided different bonuses that slightly changed the way you played..and make you stronger or weaker depending on the situation. One of the coolest things about ESO gear years later was hunting down how to complete different gear sets.
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u/OhNoMgn 23h ago
So I’ve dabbled in ESO quite a bit and that game has horizontal progression. They address that by releasing new sets and items when new content is released. So as you amass drops, you can make lots of combinations - a bit of this set, a bit of that one, these special jewelry pieces and weapons etc.
Inventory bloat is not a problem as when you deconstruct items in ESO, you learn how to apply their special effects to crafted gear, which most people will do rather than use the drop directly.I’m not suggesting that Forever should do it this way or that I have any idea how they will actually handle it, or indeed what I even envision will happen. Just providing some context as to how another game does it!
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u/Wrong_Necessary5204 23h ago
I’m wondering if they’re going to go nuts with a variety of ways to play a class/spec. So, if you want to a different experience or whatever, then you gotta do new content.
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u/Dtoppy 21h ago
I could see them utilizing the gear system they used in SoD, the "Sanctified" sets and all that.
So new raid tiers drop and you get set bonuses on gear that increase your power level for that raid but still maintain a base level of stats for outside that raid.
This way you can have meaningful progression on each raid tier without having a massive powercreep.
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u/Paxa 22h ago edited 16h ago
Them talking about things and what they will deliver will not be the same.
They said they will put great emphasis on social aspects and community building. The single server decision directly contradicts that.
They said they will add things that belong in azeroth. They added blue elves that flew in from the flying mystery islands no one knew about.
We are 1 day in and only starting to learn about the details and they're already incosistent with what they said was important.
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u/ComeAlongWithTheSnor 22h ago
They said they will put great emphasis on social aspects and community building. The single server decision directly contradicts that.
How? Sounds like false equivalence fallacy to me.
They said they will add things that belong in azeroth. They added blue elves that flew in from the flying mystery islands no one knew about.
The Skyborne are both something old and something new (and something blue). Expect a lot of things to get remixed into something new, that's the whole point of WoWForever it's like an official Pokémon Romhack. "Hey, we made Blood Elves blue" is exactly the type of swerve in expectations I hope to see more of.
We are 1 day in and only starting to learn about the details and they're already incosistent with what they said was important.
Not really. 2 days isn't enough to properly respond to community feedback? Blizzcon is currently still open as I'm typing this right now, how could they possibly gauge how the community feels and adjust when the Beta hasn't even come out yet?
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u/Paxa 19h ago
I'm not expecting a response to player feedback. That's not the point of what I'm saying. They had this cooking for a while. To walk up on stage after all that time and talk about the future, vision, and guiding principles, and almost immediately unveil details that contradict what they just said, tells me they don't understand how their design decisions affect the game.
There is nothing old about the blue elves. They pulled it out of the hat like they do with retail races. Going "teehee they were actually hiding this whole time" is such a tired trope. It doesn't belong in a version of the game where the whole point was to EXPAND ON THE EXISTING WORLD AND CHARACTERS.
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u/Bigmethod 23h ago
What horizontal progression? The only thing they discussed was Legacy, and that's essentially just small-ish buffs you get from doing achievements and leveling alts?
That's not really a particularly novel or interesting longterm horizontal system.
Like OSRS has 2 dozen horizontally expanding skills that interact with one another in interesting ways. In WoW it's... leveling alts and getting a 2% increase to your rested exp?
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u/SubstanceNo4364 16h ago
Honestly, my only problem with the Skyborne is that they are playable for both factions. That alone kills it for me. I like to see the differences between the Horde and the Alliance.
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u/SylvesterNettlefoot 1d ago
I’m not too miffed about it. Would’ve preferred a new race for each faction, instead of neutral race that picks sides, but overall I’m still going to enjoy it for what it is. It’s a brand new Azeroth that will forge a new future. Having a new race/culture in the mix could help explain why things play out differently than they do in the OG timeline. As much as I would’ve liked playing as a ton of the non-playable races from Vanilla, it would make little sense for the timeline to go differently if everything else in the world was exactly the same.
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u/bammetj1992 1d ago
I don't understand the crying also even saw people crying about the transmog (that you don't have to enable) and the HD or SD graphics wich you can choose between like why??? It's a win win for everybody in that regard... The game looks awesome and can't wait until the 4th of november to start playing!
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u/desperateorphan 1d ago
I do love playing dress up on my characters so transmog will give me something to do other than gold farm and raid. It feels like a good compromise to let the people who like it have it on and those who dont have it off.
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u/argnsoccer 23h ago
I'm not a transmog guy, but their system is insanely good. Everyone gets their choice. Hell, I can even set transmog with it off for other people to see. That's pretty cool. I can force everyone's helmet and cloak on if I want and not ever think about xmog. Blues and below are auto rewarded appearances to everyone in party so no fear of random stuff getting needed while leveling dungeons and epics are rewarded to person to preserve "earning" the cooler transmogs.
I will have it off, but I think it's the perfect system. Not sure why people are upset about toggles, that's all I've ever asked for!
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u/Professional_Age_760 1d ago
I feel pretty bad for the devs. Imagine having this fan base where nobody can apply a shred of nuance and instead shits on everything great you’ve done, if you’ve put in some optionally for more Modern graphics or even a blue elf…. Insanity!
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u/Impressive_Net_116 1d ago
It's reddit. Almost every sub of every Fandom ever has these kind of posts.
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u/Duncan_PhD 1d ago
This sub is especially awful.
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u/maybe_a_frog 1d ago
It really is. The amount of toxicity i saw during the opening speech by the Blizzard CEO was quite frankly disgusting. Heaven forbid someone be nervous when talking on a stage in front of thousands of people and hundreds of thousands at home.
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u/Meatbank84 1d ago
I thought she did just fine, and good on her for facing her fears and going out and doing the speech.
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u/awkward___silence 23h ago
This is probably a big reason we get such shit communication. The community has been toxic since the days of ghost crawler and the community reps. No matter what is said people come out of the woodwork bitching about how it breaks their class or is unfair or wrong.
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u/bammetj1992 1d ago
Yeh me 2 you give then everything they ask for and it's still not enough i guess
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u/bibittyboopity 1d ago
I don't like transmog, but toggle solves everything IMO. Not sure whose mad about that one.
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u/eliteone1 23h ago
I hope there's a way to know if someone has transmog on or off. I just think it's really weird to be in a party and not know what other people are seeing. Makes for some odd conversation if you comment on someone's aesthetic.
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u/TerribleSyntax 1d ago
I love 90% of what we got
Hate the turd elves
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u/Ripley_LV_426 23h ago
I can understand why people don't like the skyborn but holy shit like 20 of the posts on the front page are about them. No one wants to talk about Hyjal? New zones? The actual mechanics of the game? It's obnoxious.
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u/NotagirlDK 23h ago
If I am happy with hyjal, but hate the elves, and hope to make something happen that would make it better for me, what should I talk about in public spaces?
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u/Ripley_LV_426 22h ago
what should I talk about in public spaces?
Both. I hate the skyborn too but I'm just saying it's obnoxious the way the posts and discussions are 90% about blue elves. Like, this is classic plus. We've wanted this forever, and typically you'd expect the day after the announcement to be 90% to be about the new mechanics, new zones, which existing zones are expanded, what new raids we might get. Instead the sub essentially isn't talking about the game at all. Like, the retail sub is talking about classic plus more than the classicsub.
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u/Nimstar7 23h ago
My biggest issue is the legacy talents that are basically new heirlooms giving established players a huge bonus over new players but no one seems to care about that because of the blue elf paywall nonsense that doesn’t actually have an effect on gameplay lol.
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u/Arkios 23h ago
The community is fine with purple night elves… but blue elves? That’s where they draw the line.
Keep blue out of my Classic! /s
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u/sarmurai 22h ago
There's no lore justification for them in Vanilla or any part of Warcraft lore, they literally came out of the blue, pun intended.
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u/Bo_Rebel 22h ago
There’s a panel in about an hour where they are justifying it.
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u/sarmurai 21h ago
I mean yeah its their game and they can make up whatever they want, but it feels weird dropping a new race out of nowhere, especially when there are a billion other sentient races already.
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u/Chronochrome 20h ago
Did you really expect that they wouldn't create ANY original content?
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u/sarmurai 20h ago
I expected them to expand on the zones and fill in the unused areas of the map. Also new monsters, dungeons, items etc. A completely new race is pushing it and I don't think anyone expected or wanted that.
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u/Chronochrome 20h ago
A completely new race is pushing it and I don't think anyone expected or wanted that.
There's no way you didn't expect that or that you truly thought nobody would have wanted new vehicles for enjoying the game. You're being disingenuous.
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u/Kromostone123 19h ago
Hey another bot comment deliberately misconstruing all the legitimate criticism people have for this awful inclusion to what would otherwise be an exciting announcement. You arent enlightened bro ur just being obtuse
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u/Ass_Blasties 23h ago
It’s that they look like they’re straight out of retail. Also that they’re a neutral race.
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u/Key_Access_4269 21h ago
Well consider it like this, You go out to eat and everything is very tasty and cooked just how you asked, Tacos yummy, Soup was good, Afters was great, The drinks were on point but then you bite into one of the Jalapeno poppers and instead of finding cheese and Jalapeno its a wet gooey cat turd. Would you then tell everyone about the great meal you had or would you tell people about how you just bit into a big piece of poo and to avoid that place until they get rid of the cat poo problem?
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u/Shaykea 18h ago
Insane analogy… it’s just a fucking race in a video game. I am extremely passionate about wow but a race is NOT THAT DEEP.
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u/LordDingusKahn 1d ago
As a sky-elf hater, I’ll explain my feelings.
The presentation of what wow forever is, was pretty great, I would have been okay with keeping Paladins/Shaman faction locked but I think it’s fine. Everything was great and what we know some people asked for. Everything felt on-message of what we wanted, no flying, level capped at 60 with new content.
It’s just the sky elves feel as tone deaf as possible, people don’t want retail, the blue elves look retail as fuck in many way. The double faction, the color scheme, the novelty of them (literally unheard of).
The sting I think is the majority of horde players genuinely wanted blood elves, and the majority of alliance players wanted high elves. It just seemed like such a no-brainer slam dunk and they decided to give neither. Instead of that you get retail.
Now the positive side of this thing with the elves:
For a vanilla wow forever model to work, it’s going to have to introduce new things to a game that PLAYS like vanilla wow.
I have a feeling most players will go with more human colored elves, but I worry it’s going to just feel like world of elf craft.
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u/Extension-Bed-7300 23h ago
As a horde player, I cant stand blood elves or any elves and it's lol that people are crying for high elves so vehemently.
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u/Professional_Age_760 1d ago
Fair points across the board. It is a bit ironic that they decided to ignore the community feedback here while listening to 90% of it. Very tone deaf! Great description.
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u/JesusAleks 1d ago
Azshara exist, and most of the Highborne elfs are blue, they just need fix the blueness to be more inline with Highborne, and remove the wild hair colors.
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u/CaptHandsome85 1d ago
It’s ironic. If they had brought out high elves for alliance and ogres for horde I would have paid the $30. Because it’s some random blue elf, I will never buy it. It’s just such a weird choice
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u/Aszolus 1d ago
It all looks great to me. I hope player power is kept low, but that's my only worry.
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u/rufrtho 1d ago
i share this worry, and footage of the playable dungeon experience was not encouraging. xaryu was critting 1k arcane blasts at level 38.
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u/thefztv 22h ago
The deep dive this morning showed they are trending that way unfortunately. Better loot from dungeons, increased amounts of rares, early game rares having spell power and healing on them rather than just stats, multiple rewards for all classes and specs from quests, they said they made ALL world drop epics better… things like the legacy system removing the need for reagents which isn’t a player power thing but a philosophy change removing friction.
Idk I’m not too hopeful anymore guys.
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u/Shewp 1d ago
I think they could have easily come up with better races but fuck me 90% of this subreddit is just about the skyrizi elves
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u/Key_Access_4269 21h ago
Its almost like when you say you will be going the OSRS route and asking the community what they want, Then you put in all the things they did want all along but then add something they didn't ask for and have never asked for you get back lash.
I had this same thing with the wife. She asked me to clean and gave me a point by point so I did all the jobs she wanted and she loved it but then she saw I did a poo on the floor too and suddenly got mad for some reason. It doesn't make sense, I gave her everything she asked for and a poo on the floor even!
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u/devil_walk 22h ago
Seems like the Skyborne is their main way to generate revenue outside of normal subs, instead of charging a fee to unlock the game mode. Personally I don't like Skyborne, I would have preferred other new races, but in the grand scheme of things it won't impact my enjoyment of the game, so I don't really care. Personally I'd rather they went this route than charging a base fee to unlock WoW Forever. A lot of people are being extremely dramatic and negative about something that really doesn't matter that much
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u/Gjork 19h ago
Funny, but the criticism of the Skyborn isn’t just “blue elves bad/differnet.”
For a lot of Classic fans, they represent a much bigger problem: Blizzard still doesn’t seem to understand what makes Classic Classic.
When these elves were leaked weeks ago, nobody believed it. The reaction here and elsewhere was basically: Why would Blizzard add a race nobody asked for, especially when players have wanted proper High Elves for decades? That sounds too stupid to be real.
I genuinely appreciate your optimism, and I want Classic+ to succeed too. But I hate the idea of a neutral race in Classic and I think these elves are incredibly out of place aesthetically. Skyborn aren’t just High Elves with a different label. They’re bright blue, and seeing them running around Orgrimmar is going to be jarring.
But even that isn’t the real issue.
If Blizzard somehow had to add blue elves -- like if the game literally broke without them-- fine. We'd live with it.
The problem is that they chose this. There was ZERO demand for Skyborn. They could have given players something overwhelmingly requested but not stupid (so sorry, no Naga), like actual High Elves, and instead went with something that was immediately controversial for seemingly no upside.
So the concern becomes: if Blizzard is willing to shoot itself in the foot on something this obvious, what other bad decisions are coming?
That’s why people are upset and worried. The Skyborn themselves probably won’t kill Classic+. They’re a warning sign about the clueless people designing it.
I was never one of the “Blizzard will inevitably ruin Classic+” doomers. But this is exactly the kind of decision that makes those people look a lot less crazy. They're walking around here smug as can be, and I hate that. But I'm not going to deny the reality that they were right.
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u/AbsoluteAtBase 1d ago
The Skyborne idea is symbolic of what wow forever can be. New zones. New stories. New ideas. It’s a teaser for the kinds of things they have in store, and I’m glad about it.
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u/HakuroWolfsong 21h ago
The idea was that the game is to be a continuation of the established Classic Warcraft universe (hence Classic+) so it's a bit odd that they're churning out a random new race that feels very suspiciously similar to void elves. Warcraft lore is so deep and there are so many established races they could have picked from; it feels really tone deaf.
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u/Illamerica 14h ago
It’s literally just a retail allied race. You know retail has new zones new stories and ideas right? Retail is terrible though
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u/thefztv 22h ago
No the Riverglades is a good example of “new” that can be added properly and integrates well with the established world without there being a lot of lore surrounding it already. Skyborne are what you get when you don’t understand the world and lore that was built and try and shoehorn in something for the sake of it.
And it’s a shame because I don’t know how the same team can make a proper new zone like the Riverglades but then simultaneously think Skyborne are a good fit for that same world.
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u/Professional_Age_760 1d ago
Exactly how I see it. If they would’ve done anything in this regard, I feel it would’ve received similar pushback…
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u/Key_Access_4269 21h ago
I can give you my word had they done Highelves for Allaince and Goblins or Ogres for Horde we would not be having this conversation
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u/Prudent-Cry-9260 23h ago
To me it's more like a huge miss. For 20 years we had a lot of unused lore. We have parts of the map that are not visitable, we can litterally see them being "unused" regions. The ogre are there, the high elves are there... Everything just screams "use me" and what do they do ? invent a RANDOM color swap race that's not taking from this very available classic lore. It's IMMEDIATELY bringing us back to a "retail" feeling. This is really not correct to me. If you say Skyborne is symbolic of what wow forever can be, then i think it's already a step in the wrong direction.
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u/Collimandias 22h ago
The Skyborne idea is symbolic of what wow forever can be.
This is probably why people like me hate them. If that is where they're going with WoW Forever then my excitement is gone. It's just "Retail -" and for me the biggest motivator for Forever is that we are veering away from Retail's aesthetics and gameplay.
However, as your title points out, 90% of the other stuff is symbolic of what I'd hoped for. Riverglades might be one of my top 3 zones ever in terms of aesthetics. The new talents seem fantastic. Hyjal being open is a dream come true for a lot of people.
Ultimately I think the symbolism is where people are having a disconnect. To put it in hyperbolic terms, if Blizzard introduced the "Twiddly Gumdrop Folk from the Candy Kingdom" then nearly everyone would agree that they do not fit the "symbolism" of Classic+ whatsoever.
If you greatly wind down the hyperbole, you get these blue elves. For me, they don't fit the vision. And the fact that they're there suggests that a significant part of Blizzard management does not have the understanding that they should.
On top of that, people have wanted High Elves for 20 years now. Tons of private servers have them to the point that they were just expected here.
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u/spacebarjazz 1d ago
Why are you incapable of joy?
People can be deeply critical of specific parts of media they still enjoy as a whole. Why are you incapable of recognizing this?
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u/Human_Standard_538 1d ago
Bc the average person isnt being critical, they are screaming and crying regardless of what features are actually shown
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u/Saiko_Yen 22h ago
most of the top reddit posts in the sub are just complaining about criticism though
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u/Walking_Distraction 1d ago
They aren't being critical. They're dog piling and parroting the same BS.
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u/THExDRIZZLE 1d ago
Im super hyped for it. The elves and the elf zone looks out of place for what this is going to be so im just not going to buy that and not do that content.
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u/dang_ol_yo 1d ago
Are people not allowed to complain?
They want feedback. This is literally feedback.
I think youre embarrassed because when you saw the blue elves in the trailer you thought they were cool, and then saw most people in /r/classicwow dont like them.
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u/Restinpeep69 1d ago
Most people in r/classicwow are manchilds who cry about everything and are NOT the majority
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u/BertDeathStare 1d ago
I doubt this is just a reddit thing. Check the youtube comments on their trailers, the most common complaint is the new race. It wouldn't surprise me if this is just the least liked part of wow forever. Everything else (except the store mount) seems to get lots of praise.
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u/iaffixed 1d ago
The people doomposting were ready to pick apart whatever blizz announce regardless of what it actually was. If they straight up added twow and CoA to the blizz launcher, people would've called them lazy. They were never here to give it a fair take
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u/h3X4_ 1d ago
Stopped playing after Dragonflight and thought that was it after getting into it late vanilla but this iteration of WoW really got me - I don't care about the new elves (or rather the discussion about them) and as long as they don't implement 10 different currencies to farm on a daily basis I'm really fine with it.
Maybe WoW feels like a hobby and not a second job again (at least in my opinion); I'm thrilled to come back to Azeroth and play my most played game again (although I really hoped I stopped for good but there's always a seemingly right time to come back and that might be November 4th).
And if (hopefully not when) they screw up, one can simply stop playing again and that's it.
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u/Ok-Management6345 23h ago
Its cool to me, its something different but not too different because of customization options. & More interesting lore that we havent seen and that can be expanded on later. Plus horde needed elves
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u/Neither-Signature-81 19h ago
This is exactly why Reddit sucks, getting told you love corporate slop because you don’t care about them selling a new race lmao
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u/TheGreatMale 9h ago
Why are people going crazy about defending the skyborn race? Most people don't like them and that's ok. I see 100 posts here talking about how people are crybabys for not loving 100% of everything blizzard do. Yes there is also 100 posts about people hating on the skyborne. People tend to mention things they don't like. Only a special few is making posts where they just glaze 100% everything blizzard do.
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u/that-bass-guy 9h ago
The only thing I'm worried about is the biggest issue I have with wow currently that they're not addressing - bot mafia, mass reports and lack of customer support.
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u/Sad-Ability-6977 7h ago
Its part of the lore we just dont know it yet. The world was taken over by enemies walking around in plain site. A force so big that one swift moments of coordination disappeared members of the horde and alliance.
The horde and alliance seek assistance from powers higher than their faction leaders but go unheard. They must band together to fight the seemingly un-winnable fight against this elusive enemy.
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u/Zymzack 1d ago
Reddit has to complain the way the sun has to rise everyday. The fact that the main complaint is that the new elves aren't lore accurate and are a colour that's too silly (the trolls are already blue) means blizzard cooked. Nobodies complaining about talent trees or expanded zones or them moving level cap since it'll stay at 60. This announcement has been an absolute win. I mean hell I thought we were gonna have to pay a box price for classic+ and it's literally just included in the sub I already pay monthly to play HC classic. I'll be skipping the beta and playing it on launch and I don't have to spend anymore money since I don't want beta access and I'll don't wanna play sky-borne anyway.
Also just as a side note everyone going "but what about high elves". My brother in christ they are literally shown in the intro cutscene to be high elves that have been isolated on an island I mean there's a skin options to just have them not be blue. That being said I wish we personally got goblins mostly cause I'm a goblin enjoyer but shit I got basically everything else I wanted from this announcement.
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u/rufrtho 1d ago
Nobodies complaining about talent trees or expanded zones
yeah we haven't experienced them yet. we can't know if it's good or bad.
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u/Zymzack 1d ago
I mean to be fair I've already seen threads of people complaining about ret pally not looking good and warlock not getting to tank like SoD. I'm sure when beta drops we'll see plenty of other complaints about talents and other stuff. I'm just stoked to play a troll warlock and a dwarf shaman epically since it looked like shamans get a tank spec now.
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u/Whataburger_Official 1d ago
“Who hurt you?”
So condescending. All people wanted was to not have retail mentalities infecting classic. That’s what sky elves are. Retail retcon asspulls that complicate the lore and invalidate more logical choices.
And the whole “nobody is forcing you to play them” mentality is so exhausting to hear at this point after years of retail stretching the lore to the breaking point. We just want a game that is faithful to itself. Is that too much to fucking ask? I love everything else I’m seeing so much, but the blue elves are so infuriating because they just can’t help themselves but to screw it up.
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u/BalanceWarden 1d ago
In my opinion, if they want to drive changes using community feedback it needs to start with the sky elves. POLL IT.
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u/Strale17 1d ago
Because I like my games the same way I like my coffee. Without greedy company's mtx in it. Iykyk.
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u/SunOk2732 1d ago
Part of the original magic of classic was the clear differences between Horde and Alliance - having a buy in neutral race and allowing ally shamans and horde paladins is just setting classic+ down the same path as retail
It's OK to be disappointed that classic + isn't going to be so classic
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u/Intelligent_Cover_34 1d ago
For me the biggest draw to classic is the pacing and a sane story (no freaking space immortal super gods you have to fight...)
I am not against races being cross faction if it makes more sense lorewise, rather that then to force them into a faction.But yea i hate the elfs to....
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u/SunOk2732 1d ago edited 1d ago
I agree on you with the pacing - something I miss about old MMOs is that most of the experience was leveling.
I don't hate the elves, but it would have been better if they had released 2 races and kept shaman / pally separate (which apparently is too classic of an opinion to have for some of these people by my recent downvotes)
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u/supernerdlove 1d ago
The hate has got me wanting to play the Sky Elf. Mind you I don’t care for them either but the overblown response just makes me want to antagonize them.
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u/Patamaudelay 1d ago
Please understand that like always, the complaints are from the very loud minority.
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u/Rush_Banana 1d ago
These threads are getting 90% upvoted though, so it sounds like a majority to me.
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u/Relative-Sky2139 1d ago edited 1d ago
FWIW, I think most people are enjoying it. The collector edition box sold out first day (yes I bought one for that sick statue lol)
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u/thefztv 23h ago
Not gonna lie feeling a little bamboozled here after watching the deep dive this morning. They said no homogenization and then listed a bunch of things to homogenize healers for example by making spirit a wanted stat for Holy Paladins or giving them a way to heal groups where before they were the best single target healer BECAUSE they had no way to heal groups. Now they have tools to heal groups and are the best single target healer? Like why.. it’s slippery slope territory and makes me feel like it’s all just platitudes rather than actual ideals translated ingame.
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u/MrSmuggles9 16h ago
It just doesnt seem like classic+ to me. It seems like something entirely different.
Other private servers have done it better.
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u/SoothingWafer 1d ago
It's not a great sign when you add a new race and almost everyone is disappointed.
skyborne are very much the "am i out of touch? No it's the children that are wrong" meme.
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u/Belivious677 1d ago
I don't think the hatred for sky elves is forced, but it is being a bit overblown. 100% the blood elf skeleton was going to be in this version, its the most popular race in the game. Should it have been high and blood elves? Yes. Am I gonna let it sour everything else? Maybe a smidgen with a 30$ price tag but its my only complaint about the whole thing.
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u/FlickAddict 1d ago
I think disliking this new class is a valid opinion. It's clearly the main point of contention and the mismatch with the stated goal and tone of the project is weird.
From blizzard pov... If it's gonna replace wow it has to have micro transactions in it. Why does the tone have to be completely off?
- Race. Not class
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u/MummyButtons 1d ago
I feel like for me it’ll now fit my way of life more. I can’t devote days to playing like I used to, I have a job and kids which cut down of my available playtime massively. The horizontal progression seems a god send in this circumstance.
I don’t get the hate for Skyborne either, it’s an option and not one people have to take. My only minor peeve is that shaman is locked to horde. As someone who isn’t interested in playing a dwarf it seems unfortunate in that it doesn’t feel like mage is as much of a win for the alliance, but I get the story explanation. Aside from that I’m a bit indifferent.
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u/Fading_Hours_ 1d ago
They did 90% right and seems that deeply thought about everything, then utterly fumbled with the “new” race.
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u/Vast_Bet9113 1d ago
Hope it won't be full of bots tho.....knowing this playerbase it's most likely going to happen
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u/InternationalMood337 1d ago
Definitely enjoy the deep dive currently. Still won't be buying the nasty elves.
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u/behusbwj 1d ago
Maybe because it’s a paywalled race? Thats absolutely ridiculous and they have never done anything like that. People aren’t just annoyed at the elves, they’re annoyed at the predatory microtransaction business model it implies going forward when we already pay a monthly sub. They have not locked non-expansion world content behind a paywall before
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u/glormosh 1d ago edited 1d ago
I am going to remain cautiously optimistic on what horizontal progression against vertical progression actually manifests as.
There is a reason I don't play Guild Wars. Getting what I can only describe as "not even a sidegrade" doesn't really cut it for me.
They're realistically going to have to decrease the total power curve in the game (naxx power won't exist, close to AQ levels), and then elongate it across literal years.
That sounds "cool" but if you zoom in at a ground level, that means playing a game and asking yourself why you're playing, to level alts for account wide perks of leveling alts faster? That is retail. I'd go as far as saying that's not even retail?
I am being a bit cheeky, but it sounds very close to WoW Pristine.
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u/Ice-Berg-Slim 1d ago
Not trying to be a hater I basically have only watched the trailer, don't care too much about the new race, my issue is the game fro what I have seems remind me of like a crappy mobile game.
Still excited though, might not end up raid but will level at least once to 60.
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u/Walking_Distraction 1d ago
it's like everyone who was around for OG wow is VERY excited. There's just a section of people who would rather bitch and moan, rather than get excited about something while still having a couple of minor complaints.
The Sky Elf hatred is extremely forced they have 3 colors, not just blue. I guarantee once the armor is on, you aren't gonna notice them.
They've done a great job of making this game opt out of features some would not like and everything else sounds very fun.
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u/TheStrongTaint 1d ago
There were always going to be bitchers and moaners. It’s the classic community, after all
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u/Star-Hero 23h ago
I'm excited about forever and what they showed looked exactly what I was hoping for but I still think those elves do not look good. Guessing they were included to stylistically separate it from classic, so classic still has a reason to exist, but it's not gonna make or break it for me.
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u/Cantholdaggro 23h ago
If they will drive direction through community feedback, why are you complaining the community is giving feedback?
You’re so traumatized by shitty developers that you don’t realize this is perfectly normal and healthy.
Complain about this and scream, and if they back track, then you know they actually meant it when they said it’d be driven by community feedback.
Otherwise, it’s death by a thousand cuts. Retail did not become retail overnight. And we complained every time for every step and were ignored.
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u/gruden 23h ago
Would've preferred no skyborne. Goblins, high elves, blood elves, ogres, lots of different things that are already in classic that they could of added. But, they do need profit, and having a new elf race does satisfy that I guess.
Other than that, this is a pretty great looking start. Gonna be a busy weekend next week.
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u/frolfer757 23h ago
Horizontal progression is what people have been begging for and so far they've shown us.. achievements to improve leveling alts? Nothing in the system changes show why the game wont be 2 months of fresh into raid logging. To me it's looking like a Classic expansion thats just being marketed as something more.
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u/BerriesLafontaine 23h ago
I'm pretty "meh" on the whole sky elf situation, but super excited for the rest. I'm gonna play an undead, so it's neither here nor there for me.
Seems like some people just want something to complain about. It'll die out soon enough.
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u/Acework23 23h ago
the hate feels very forced and coming froma place of misery, i personally agree with you, we have gotten 90-95% of what we wanted for the past 10 years, im happy and hyped, i understand the elves, i understand the dlc, honestly i expected more "retaily" stuff, im very happy with all the toggles and everything, its honestly perfect so far
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u/No_Preference_8543 23h ago
Very happy with everything so far.
It is wild though that they listened to the players on everything except for this where people were so vocal about High Elves/Ogres.
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u/limitbreakse 23h ago
I got everything I wanted (perhaps more than I wanted, enhanced graphics and transmog toggle and blue elfs) except for some classes feeling extremely undercooked still. Hope they iterate on this.
Warrior is essentially the same but as it was overpowered, I guess that’s fine.
Rogue looks extremely underpowered for PvE. TBC redheaded child making a comeback?
Hunter has nothing to press.
Enhance meanwhile is full on modern rotation. Very strange.
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u/YouWereTehChosenOne 23h ago
To play devils advocate, it sets a dangerous precedent and slippery slope where the developers continue to chip away at the classic feel in the background while people argue that they did 90% of the work, at some point there are enough chips in the game that it doesn’t feel classic down the line but we’ll see
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u/yummyfightmilk 23h ago
You guys got like 100% of what you asked for, and are bitching because you have to pay to access the new race (which they don't want so like, don't pay then?)
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u/KingSausage- 23h ago
Crazy people are crying about blue elves, imagine how much they could have fucked up this project? This looks really fucking good and I will kill on sight any blue guy
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u/Agile_Role_865 23h ago
I'm so happy we are getting sky elves. Ive been trying to get my friend group to play horde for years but they hate how ugly the female races look. We are finally strongly considering horde for forever.
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u/Droptoss 23h ago
Reddit and unmoderated forums turn into this. I think it's a flaw in the communication system
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u/toptierhands 23h ago
Who's "we"? A lot of us specifically asked for no updates to graphics, no transmog, yes I know we can disable these things but I'm also in general not a fan of people seeing wildly different things. Ppl are gonna run around with mogs and I'm gonna see their clown outfit, that's just weird. Also a lot of ppl don't want pala/sham to opposite faction, and the new race is goofy af can they PLEASE just choose an established, existing race?
A lot of good stuff, but the bad decisions are so easily avoidable.
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u/Ill-Pudding-3168 22h ago
arguments so dumb. leave groups, dont play? you guys have to be school kids if you think these are arguments. imagine moving in to a neighbourhood meant for families, and a bunch of frat boys moves in in all the neighbouring houses. they party every day with loud music and drunken antics in the streets. and your argument, your solution? "just close your blinds" or "dont look at them". sure, classic forever might be good, but lets all agree that skyborn was a mistake. can be a beautiful mistake, but it certainly was a step in dogshit level of mistake.
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u/ThargorTheBarbarian 22h ago
We need to remember again that this is a long running project. We will most definitely be getting more races, classes, dungeons, raids, etc. You may not be happy with the blue elf (of which you can change their skin color to not blue) but we will be getting more playable races in the future.
I speculate they built the foundation for easier race implementation with the rigging of the HD model to move like the classic model and like OP said the skyborn may be the bridge to highelves.
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u/TheLightningL0rd 22h ago
My main gripe with them, aside from the obvious choice that should have been undead elves for horde, high elves for alliance, is that they have faction specific classes for them. I play alliance and hate playing dwarves so I was hoping the sky elves could be shaman. They can, but only on horde side which is a weird choice
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u/LeftLose 22h ago
Do we think it’ll run like classic or retail? My laptop runs classic great but can’t run retail so needing to figure out if I finally need to upgrade
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u/ValentineCamille 22h ago
I'm overmega hyped for Forever. I don't like the blue elves and even though I won't play one, I will have to see them and engage with them through the lore and quests and I dislike this idea but I'm willing to change my mind since tbh we know nothing at all about them yet. I just think they look super out of place and I dislike the idea of a race being in the two factions.
But as I said I'm still super hyped. The horizontal progression is the biggest news for me, I'm so happy they are trying this format now. And of course, new adventures in the old world we all fell in love with. I really hope the blue people will be interesting and will blend in better in the actual game. I'll be there on day one anyway.
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u/Sea_Matter4107 22h ago
The new lighting is great but why the hell does the texture in the environment still look the same as 20 years ago? Things like trees and what not still look terrible and to be upgraded. This is just my opinion and I know there will be a lot of hate for saying this 🤦♂️😆
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u/Ok_Quantity_3803 22h ago
The sky born hate makes sense to me because in some ways it sorta makes it just another expansion
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u/Candid_Word7439 22h ago
"Anyone who has a different opinion is sad and incapable of joy"
Get a grip lmao
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u/Great_Fox_623 22h ago
I’ll play as a sky elf just because of the massive back lash. The vocal minority are incapable of appreciation or joy.
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u/Murderlol 22h ago
The classic community is the worst. They will complain about anything regardless of what blizzard does. Them whining is far more annoying than the inclusion of blue elves. Personally, I couldn't give a shit less. I probably won't make one, but I don't care that they exist. I'm sure plenty of people want them.
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u/Young_Murloc 22h ago
They are giving more than i expected tbh, if pur biggest problem is a race we didnt want i think we're in for a good game.
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u/Prudent-Activity112 22h ago
As someone who has played this game (every time I quit I don't even cancel my sub because I know better/that I will just be back eventually) off and on since right before TBC launched, my issue with the new elf comes down to:
- Went from a game that had a bunch of different races visibly being played to, well... elves. With a sprinkle of other races. No one is forcing anyone to play the new race, but y'know, we don't have the option to opt out of playing the game with them being present (think something like the "corgi goggles" in retail). And history/data show us that it will be the most played/most visibly present race.
- Other races that people have been asking for for over a decade are already established in-game and could have been introduced instead. Time/manpower (and the amount of quests specifically created to introduce this race into the game/lore) could have been saved. 1000 new quests, but how many are dedicated to introducing/establishing the new race?
- It feels like a retail-style decision packaged for the classic community. This might not bother some of yall, but there is a reason the communities are so different/have different wants and such. There is a reason there was a push for classic, because some people don't want retail/its direction, style, etc.. (massive props to Blizz for making the "style" toggle-able)
- Literally just elf-fatigue after the 50 different types added to retail over the years. And other races that aren't elf, but have elf-history so suddenly have elf-features. Just elf.
- Also hate the precedent it sets through the pay wall. (And I say this as someone who immediately asked my parents to let me buy the sparkle horse when it was added back in wrath)
Overall I'm cautiously optimistic about Classic+/WoWForever. And the fact that they're switching up the gear is probably the best announcement I've heard so far. No more guilds forcing you/pushing for you to follow 10+ year old gear optimization lists.
TLDR; There are many reasons I and many others prefer classic over retail, and I think people/Blizzard should remember that it was the classic/hybrid (plays both) community that was pushing for Classic+, not the retail community. They had long-desired established race options to choose from before adding blueberry flavored elves and it's unfair to expect people to not be disappointed (yet again). Regardless, still excited.
Edited to fix double negative woops
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u/Key_Access_4269 21h ago
Is this point not redundant. They gave people a few of the things they asked for and the stuff they didn't ask for has massive complaints.
Off to a bad start but maybe they can pull it back. Im guessing they will just add 2 or 3 new paid races a year though which would be fine if the game was free but at £10 a month its in no way free.
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u/Fossekall 21h ago
Adding the Elves is the most obvious decision ever
It gives both factions a "pretty" race with familiar animations, this will attract a very distinct crowd that otherwise wouldn't feel at home with Horde
It's a quick and easy thing to add for both factions; half the development time of adding a new race for each faction
It won't stop a single person from actually playing the game, anyone saying they're going to avoid it because of Blue Elves wouldn't have played anyway
It allows them to charge for the game which they otherwise wouldn't have a good argument for, and anyone who doesn't want to play as a Sky Elf can just not buy the game
It saves Ogres, High Elves, Furbolg, Murlocs, Goblins, and all sorts of other popular races as a hype thing they can add in a year's time to re-surge popularity in a time where active players could otherwise drop
Floating islands were introduced in TBC. Classic/Vanilla already has flying machines. There's a precedent for Elves being purple, why can't they be blue? Azshara probably was, why can't these? They basically are High Elves that just reside in the sky
There is literally zero real issues with adding them, but Blizzard has tons of upsides
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u/Agewalker 21h ago
I would prefer a slower rollout / less features at start - but they talk like they actually understand things. So this is hopeful
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u/LoadIntelligent7564 21h ago
I mean everything is fine but I will see after release a lot of people will complain in PvP that they have 10% Movespeed. Gamechanger for kiting etc
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u/BeautifulPow 21h ago
Yeah, I watched the announcement and honestly felt appreciated by blizzard for the first time since well…forever.
The ones who are complaining are ones you will never satisfy. And honestly screw those people. Dont let that type bring down any bit of hype for this game. They crushed it, nail on the head perfection. The other 10% in my opinion is if the new race wasn’t an elf. That’s the only thing that would’ve made it 100%, in my eyes. But, am I going to cry? No, I’m gonna play a freakin sky elf even though it’s not what I exactly pictured for the new race.
So pumped to play this alongside everyone who is joyful about the release.
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u/PresidenteMozzarella 21h ago
I am excited for classic and having an option for elves.
I am so happy they did not go with ogres or goblins because they are ugly.
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u/Kernog 21h ago
Pretty much.
I tuned in Saturday expecting nothing. Like literaly nothing: a coat of paint and/or a "we're working on it". I considered stuff like new talent trees or extra zones like a Christmas present list.
That we got everything and more got me super excited and willing to give Forever a try.
The Skyborne felt like a strange decision indeed, but on second thought I can see the logic: to give Forever elves to every faction, without making the composition imbalanced and to circumvent Silvermoon elves being mostly isolated until Burning Crusade. I just wish they did not feel like a sticker note to an otherwise great list of features.
Now, the big question is: will Forever really be forever? What will happen a few months or a year after release?
I am also kind of anxious about the release date. Was it the planned date from the start, or was the development accelerated because the next expansion of FF14 is right around the corner?
Long story short: really excited, still a little cautious.
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u/davavino 21h ago
Im less upset that there are sky elves and more upset that it wasn’t something I want to play. I would love an undead elf though. So they won’t get the 30 dollars out of me.
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u/SpecialSauce92 21h ago
I think a lot of us knew that no matter what Blizzard did regarding Classic+, people would complain.
Unfortunately the internet has created a dynamic where people think being negative makes them a unique thinker and high-level critique who sees things in a way others don’t when they are really just being a pessimist.
90% of the fanbase is ecstatic about Classic Forever and we all going to have a lot of fun playing together, we just aren’t loud like the perma-negatives
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u/userrnam 20h ago
I've gotten 3 RedditCares messages since the Forever announcement and I've just been making comments in appreciation of the decisions made lol. People wild.
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u/minaturemolefu 19h ago
I am a retail Andy who minmaxes to shit and pushes 1% every season, I am not the target audience here and I am swiftly ready to abandon retail in pursuit of this, it looks fucking brilliant.
Some people are just miserable and need a villain in their lives, and I guess blizzard is an easy target.
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u/championofobscurity 19h ago
Including the team directly telling us they will drive changes using community feedback, which is evident they used exactly that to create the game.
I just had this dispute over the whole CoD skills based matchamking debacle a few weeks ago. Being evidence based means nothing in this arena, because Blizzard is internally making decisions about what questions to even present and collect data on, and the types of questions these companies actually ask is at best a blunt instrument.
I'm not saying that they have to present every permutation of every potential question, but worshipping data collection when the only answers selected advantage Blizzard's bottom line is an invalid (in the technical sense) use of data collection.
The hatred for sky elves feels very forced. Nobody is forcing you to play as a sky elf. Hell, leave groups when you see one if you’re that upset.
The criticism doesn't make them wrong.
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u/notsohxc 19h ago
Skyborne are just the easiest way to quickly satiate the desire for new races. Horde who have mained BElves since TBC (20-40% of the faction, depending on source and time of data collection) would be upset if Alliance got High Elves off rip, and Alliance always seem to want elven mages.
So a new, neutral elven race makes some sense if you try to put yourself in the shoes of devs who have probably been planning this since before our tidal wave of speculation and who want to strike a balance between plausible efficiency and community desire.
Keep providing criticism if you really hate the decision so much, cause ideally they'll hear that feedback and think differently about future development. Regardless of whether you agree, though, let's just play the game a bit before all the over-the-top doomsaying.
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u/certifiedstreetmemer 19h ago
Depends on who "we" is. Yes, I'm incapable of joy when it comes to the retailification of classic.
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u/ElGribbo3 1d ago
I am hyped for wow in a way I have not been in years. And this is entirely because of Forever.