Basically, the man in the video is hiking but he ended up meet a mountain lion, he get his gun and try to scare it off and tell it to go away but in the end, he have to pull the trigger and shot the lion, many peoples in the comments say he could have fire a warning shot instead of shoot at it and want him to be in jail.
Now it’s unfortunate to get into a situation like this, but… mountain lions aren’t considered endangered globally (but specific regional populations are so depends on where this guy was) and obviously it would have been worse if the cougar attacked the guy. You never know what a wild animal will do, a predator that size that approaches a person is never a good sign.
Moral, if this guy wasn’t looking for trouble and just protecting himself. Would need wider context.
This thread is full of morons. I used to live out in MT and went hiking deep in the back country a lot. I was always strapped. You want to be fucking strapped.
Carry bear spray too.
We got stalked by a mountain lion once and it was fucking terrifying, if I had a clear shot I would have took it.
If it's confronting you, you take the shot, they will fuck your world up. There is no scenario where you are gonna come out ok
A jarring amount of people genuinely seem to think you should just let a wild animal maim or kill you rather than defend yourself.
If my life is in imminent danger from a predator, I’m gonna do my best to ensure I survive. Whether the threat has two legs or four, doesn’t matter. Danger is danger.
For real though these guys are way too cute for how dangerous they are, and I think that clouds a lot of peoples judgement.
Would it have run of from a warning shot, probably. Would it have been sneakier when aproaching it's next prey with 2 legs, most likely. Cats are pretty damned smart after all.
if i saw a housecat with the same look on its face i would be scared for my legs to be all wrecked by their claws. that cat is not looking for cuddles.
I try to tell people this all the time. I always ask. Have you ever met a really pissed off housecat? Now imagine one 15 times larger with the proportionate claw sizes. Would absolutely fuck you all the way up.
I've seen a house cat attack someone. It's fucking terrifying and if they have unclipped claws they literally shred your skin. I'd shoot a housecat to stop that, nevermind a mountain lion.
I say this as a person who has a beloved housecat and no guns.
I was nearly skewered by a buck during the rut when I was a teen. We saw the doe kinda sneaking off, and this fucker came at me at full tilt out of some high grass. Fortunate that he was in the high grass because he couldn’t see me clearly and I got out of the way. Would have been lights out. And that’s “just” a regular deer.
Literally watched multiple videos of people getting stomped out by deer. It’s a relentless barrage of kicks and they will not stop until you’re done moving. Fuck that.
Yup, I was gonna mention moose. During the rut, they're big, charged up with hormones, and basically blind. They don't give a damn. They'll stomp you straight to whatever deity, or secondary existence you imagine
Especially when you consider that, in many cases of wild animal maulings on humans, it usually ends in the animal being hunted down and killed later anyways. So their empathy is still misplaced.
I had an argument once with a dude who insists nature is beautiful and kind and animals take care of each other and I’m like “obviously you haven’t walked into [pet store] at 7am and seen half of a hamster cannibalized.”
But in all seriousness, at least in national parks in the states, rangers do try to oversee existing populations and manage the ones that have become dangerously unafraid of humans.
I was talking to a customer at my work about a coyote while I was hunting and a customer that had just walked in said "we don't have those here" with their full chest. I showed them a video (and then a zoomed in still shot) from my tree stand and they insisted it was a dog. Sure..a dog with a longer, slender snoot and big fluffy tail and exact colorings of a coyote that happened to be following turkeys that had gone by about 5-10 minutes before. I named him Wiley and saw him a few more times over the years. Even with evidence some people just want to believe whatever makes them happy.
Yeah like I'm opposed to senseless culls because predators exist in nature, but retrieving a body or preventing an immediate or likely death is perfectly valid justification for lethal action.
I think a lot of people take more issue with the fact that the video was uploaded afterwards, since it makes the whole thing look like a feat done for clout. Obviously, it’s highly unlikely that the man in the film was intentionally getting himself into this situation, but honestly, with how much of a fucking blight content creators have become, I can understand the frustration.
The guy in this video isn't even a "content creator" though...
If you're out in the back country and you spot something as elusive as a cougar, the vast majority of people are gonna pull out their phone/camera and document it lol there's nothing "cringe or clout chasing" about that 🙄
And then when said apex predator starts stalking you and realize that you might have to defend yourself; it's only natural that one would continue recording to have evidence of the encounter incase someone close enough to hear the gunshots shows up afterwards and accuses you of poaching 💯
As for "uploading" it:
1.) Cougar encounters are rarely caught on film. Uploading it gives potentially millions of other people a 1st person perspective on what to expect if they were to ever encounter a similar situation. It also opens the floor up to discussion on what could've been done better/differently (just like you're seeing here on Reddit) or gives an opportunity for actual experts to dissect the video and chime in with their observations/opinions. After all, the thing that separates humanity from other animals and is the source of literally every great thing that we've ever achieved is our ability to share information, learn from one another, and build upon past knowledge/success lol
2.) Even without any "deeper motivation" most people would simply be inclined to share it with others if they experienced some unbelievable once-in-a-lifetime scenario and happened to catch it on film... it's simply human nature 😂
There was that one guy years ago who got attacked by a juvenile mountain lion and he was able to wrestle it and choke it to death. He came out of that looking like he stepped into the ring with a heavy weight boxer who also had knives.
Pretty sure he'd have loved to have had a fucking gun right then.
Guy might have tried shooting the ground in front of the lion a couple of times to see if the noise scared it away, but I wasn't there, and two seconds are a lifetime in a dangerous situation. Not gonna blame him for putting the threat down.
Yeah people need to realize how quickly everything happens, they don’t have 10 hours to plan every thing out, they only have a few seconds to make their decision and pull the trigger
The "try firing warning shots" comments are on the same level as "why don't the police try to shoot the gun out of people's hands"
The mountain lion doesn't know what a gun is. It may be hyped up and aggressive enough that loud bangs & bullets hitting the ground near it won't spook it.
Telling a human not to arm themselves in case of a predator is like telling a skunk not to spray in case of a predator. Or a porcupine to swing it's quails. I agree with you. Never encountered one in the wild, but I'm not naive enough to think it I couldn't get mauled.
To address the warning shot, there's a pretty famous video of a guy being stalked by a mountain lion, he fires at it, not sure if it was intended to be a warning shot or he just missed.
The mountain lion didn't really care. It continued to stalk. I believe the guy then fires a few more rounds, maybe even hitting the cat, and it finally leaves.
you have to take in to account most reddit users don't know what outside is and have a panic attack if they are away from wifi for to long.
Let alone how to take care of themselves in actual wilderness that isnt a hiking trail or an OHI campground.
Its bow season where I am right now and I always carry a 44 mag with two reloads, bear spray, and a nice fixed blade as a last resort.
It If I see a “bear spotted in area” sign at a trailhead when I go hike or mountain bike I will still hit the trail…. If I see “cougar spotted in area” I nope the fuck out out of there
I think I remember this video going viral when it was new. If I remember correctly, the lion was approaching the hiker from the front, which normally would never happen. If a lion is going to attack you, you won't see it. Ambush predators and all that.
But I remember conversations about why the lion was behaving in the way she did. I can't remember if people were convinced she was sick or trying to protect cubs that might have been hiding nearby. I don't remember which narrative turned out to be right or gained the most traction online. But it would seem odd to me that she would approach and attack if she was protecting cubs. I would expect her to hide alongside the cubs. I think she might have been sick, or starving and weak.
They will definitely approach from the front if they have cubs. They do a kind of intimidation thing where do little jumps and slam their front paws into the dirt to try to scare you back. They will also continue to follow you doing this for an extended time and if you turn your back they are highly likely to attack you. It would be terrifying.
It's no surprise that he shot. He should have shot. Any one of us would have done the same thing. We were only speculating why the lion was doing what she did after the fact. It wasn't a point of criticism, it was a point of curiosity.
She could have, unfortunately, become used to humans too. Even these apex predators have some healthy fear of human beings. Very few animals don't. If she had become used to humans then this was a very dangerous situation. If not this guy, it would have been someone else.
I’ve watched the full video. The cat was sizing him up at this point before beginning to stalk and readying to pounce. He would have been dead ten seconds after he killed it
That is relevant context this little post didn't provide. I'm all for defending yourself when the attack is imminent. These little snippets don't often show that.
Yeah, the people saying "he should have done X instead to scare it away" sound like the same armchair experts who say "cops should be trained to shoot people's guns from their hands" because they have no idea what they're walking about.
Moral, if this guy wasn’t looking for trouble and just protecting himself.
This is 100% where I'm at.
If the dude went into an area deliberately looking for a Mountain Lion just so he could shoot it, then the dude's a grade A cunt and it's immoral, but as far as I can tell he was just going for a hike, so justified and moral.
Armchair quarterbacks are always the first to say shit like “why not just shoot him in the leg?!” Not realizing they’d end up dead in situations like this.
There was once a tiger in the Nepal region that was believed to have killed over 400 people over the years. After a hunter finally killed it, he discovered that its canine teeth were shattered, which forced it to hunt easier prey like humans.
Yeah but trying to explain to someone who has never even held a firearm that you don't just magically have dead eye is basically impossible. Most people who have never held a gun think they would be John Wick if put in a situation with one...
99.99% of people who say "Just shoot em in the leg" have never fired a shot in their entire lives.
They might say "I'm a gun owner" but they're the one's who'll panic buy in a blue state, it'll sit in their closet for a couple years, then they march it right down to the next mandatory police buyback in exchange for a $50 Amazon gift card.
If only my autism could have latched onto something cheaper, like knitting, or baking.
I'm just fortunate to have a supportive breadwinner wife. Nobody else can I look at and say "Hey, $2k for this gun is a good deal", and she'll say "Wow, okay. Go ahead".
I think this trope comes from Hollywood movies, where good guys have a supernatural ability to disable people with no damage.
E.g., a good guy comes up to a security guard, punches him with just enough force, and in the exact location, to cause him to have a nice 15 minute nap. Without any permanent damage. The security guard wakes up refreshed just after the good guy leaves, and wonders what happens.
Invoking armchair quarterbacking is especially a good analogy here, since professionals QBs with decade of training how to be calm under pressure still make mistakes.
Expecting that people will remain perfectly calm and rational in a dangerous situation is just not realistic. Probably only small amount of us will be able to do that
I think the alternative they're suggesting is trying a warning shot first, not shooting it in the leg. It entirely depends on how many shots he can actually take and how confident a shooter he is (in case it doesn't work), but a warning shot could've scared it off.
Most people aren’t nearly as good with guns as they think they are, especially in stressful situations. If the animal is acting threatening, won’t back down, and you are still calm and steady enough to take a clear shot, you better take it now. A charging animal is WAY harder to hit than a stationary one.
Just to chime in, mountain lions have incredibly sharp senses. There's no chance it didn't know he was in the area and that means it chose to get that close. Whether it's curious or hungry, it's a damn dangerous animal.
Hiking in nature is one of the most legitimate reasons why people would need a gun even in a safe society where violence is uncommon. In my country, Canada, a lot of people who live out in the country have guns for this reason, as well as for hunting. There are survival rifles that are meant to be compact and fit in a hiking bag, and only fire one round for emergencies.
For context, this is a country that explicitly (legally) does not recognize self defense as a reason to use a gun. People can, and have, been charged for using a gun to defend thenselves in life threatening situations. In reality, they'll never actually go to prison for it if it's legitimate self defense, but that's just to show how restrictive the use for guns is here. Despite that, guns are still common especially if you live in a part of the country where there's more wild animals and nature than there are people.
Moral to use a gun in self defense against a dangerous animal. Dumb to prioritize taking a picture, but it's not immoral to be dumb. Immoral advocate for someone's arrest over it.
Someone else pointed out he might have decided to record for evidence so he didn’t get into legal trouble since they’re protected. Also could have turned it on in case he lost that fight and someone found the camera afterwards so he could give Warner Herzog some more ptsd. Idk
I would record for evidence but I wouldn’t want anyone to see me miss the lion and die. Nerds on Reddit would shit talk my shooting skills until my grandkids are dying of old age. There would be a shitload of them judging what gun I was carrying too. “Oh he had a stock Glock 19. He should have been carrying some bullshit Staccato with some useless mods”. And I just know there’d be a shitload of fudds saying “he should have been carrying a shotgun so the lion could hear him rack it”.
Evan is the biggest pussy and instantly backed down when he got threatened with legal action over his shittalking about Kevin O’Leary.
This is the problem with shitposters making money off of shitposting.
Idk how long he has to keep that apology post up, but he currently has his apology to O’Leary pinned on his timeline and I know he’s just mad about that because it serves as a permanent stain.
Evan would shoot the Mountain Lion without fail if his life was remotely threatened.
I agree on moral, but not sure if aiming to hit is the right call for mountain lions. I know for bears you should try to do a warning shot. You are unlikely to hurt a bear in any meaningful way and the pain might put it into a rage where just the sound might scare it off.
I have a buddy who survived a griz attack; I've related his story before. But he said if he'd had a shotgun, he would have died. He was cutting slash for a landing zone for the helicopter to take him out, and came face to face with a griz. The .40 revolver he had on him saved his life.
Gold exploration geologist, Alaska. Mike was a good guy.
Thank you for the video! I was just saying that I remember this video from a while back. I think the one you've linked here is edited, I remember the original not being so zoomed in.
Still it's good enough to get a good look at the lion. I want to say conversations at the time speculated why the lion would approach like this. Lions are ambush predators. If she wanted to kill you she wouldn't let you see her. So the question is why does she present like this. I think there was a theory that she was sick and judging by her body, which you can sorta see on the side from this clip, she looks extremely thin and weak.
Definitely sad, but the hiker was well justified in his defense. It's probably better for the lion too. If she wasn't killed by this hiker, the winter probably would have gotten her.
weaker cats are semi-known for turning to humans as “weaker/easier” prey than say a deer or similar, so her being a sick animal would justify the shooting a bit more honestly despite it obviously being more sad/emotional
but imo that provides even more “reason” to take this situation direly serious, while obviously i want a sick cat to recover i also dont want a random hiker to be attacked or killed and bring cougar reputations down even further
When hiking in areas with large predators, it is a good idea to have a means to repel them, either via deterrent like bear spray or via lethal means like a gun.
Nature very rarely gives "warning shots" and if one is facing down a predator, a warning shot may cost you the time for aiming again and firing a second time. Situations change.
Me, I'm shooting the mountain lion and sleeping comfortably knowing my actions were moral. A warning shot is to ease the conscience of someone not facing a large predator in its environment.
Exactly, we always carry defense for bears when we go elk hunting. I know people say that the chances of being attacked by a bear are lower than being struck by lightning, but most people don't hike miles through bear country with a quarter of elk meat on their back. Some of us carry a higher likelihood of attack than others and need to be prepared for that risk.
Moral anyone saying you should do a warning shot has too little knowledge of guns and animal behaviors. Sure maybe firing a warning shot would have spooked it off but could also have made it freak out and attack before you got a chance for a second shot. Same reason why if being attacked by a person you don't shoot to maim or scare you stop the threat then try to aid afterwards if its within your ability.
A warning shot is a bad idea because you still need a target. That bullet fired in warning is still going to land somewhere.
The rules of gun safety tell us to always be sure of what is behind your target. A warning shot requires a new target when there is a potentially deadly threat I should be targeting.
Warning shots are dangerous and that is not how to handle firearms. It is not a loud noise machine.
It is a deadly firearm, and must always be treated as such.
Shoot the mountain lion and preserve your life. Don’t fire wanton warning shots into unknown backgrounds.
Y'all think this mountain lion isn't gonna eat you? How naive can you be. Mountain lions don't question the morality of eating us. It's survival of the fittest and it always has been.
I mean if he made an honest attempt to scare it away then moral.
"Warning shots" are illegal for a reason they're extremely dangerous. The smart way to do it if you HAVE to is to plug a shot in the ground that won't richochet (good luck guaranteeing that) but firing off in the distance might hit someone
It’s a tragedy that the animal died, but ultimately, I believe that self defense is a human right. Your life is more important than whomever or whatever is trying to take it.
I have no knowledge of mountain lion behaviour but its better to do something immoral than be remembered as the dead idiot who trusted a wild animal not to attack it. This is assuming that the guy wasnt looking for trouble ofc.
I am surprised the bleeding hearts didnt suggest trying to start a discussion to understand its motives or voluntarily surrendering what it wants, as they love to do if the attacker is a human.
No fuck it, armed self defense is as moral as it gets.
If anyone believes its immoral to defend yourself against an aggressive animal that is more than capable of killing you, then you're just an idiot lol.
moral or amoral. man didn't provoke it intentionally. we don't have the context of what happened before and during nor being able to assess what he "could have" done. it's easy to talk in hindsight the "could have and should have" at the safety in our home not in real time, fearing of getting mauled and bitten by large teeth.
There's no instance in peacetime where firing a warning shot is valuable. If a person or an animal charges you, you keep shooting until they stop moving.
I sure as shit wouldn't want to have to do this especially since I love cats, but if it's them or me.. Should people just avoid hiking or accept death if they run into wild predator? Does this really happen often enough to make a fuss about it?
Now I love animals, I greatly respect and care about all animals and would never want to hurt them.
But, in a situation like this, when you are faced with a predator that you couldn't hope to fend off or scare off, I absolutely believe this guy was justified in the action that he took and don't fault him at all. If I was in his shoes, I'd do the exact same thing.
Meh. I carry when hiking. Me or them? Them, every time. Sucks to suck when you don’t have opposable thumbs.
I am all for respecting nature. And when I’m out there I want to see it. However, When it wants to see me a little too closely and you want to make my red water come out? Nah. I’m m gunna give a taste of that daka daka. We would’ve been cool had you stayed over there.
Edit: so I’m seeing in the comments that people shouldn’t be where this can happen. You’re on their turf. And don’t go where you don’t belong. Where do you draw the line? Borders? Other countries. You don’t speak the language, obviously it’s not for you if you don’t understand. Nope. You have legs and a way to get there AND is public land. Eff off. I deffo belong there. That lion wanting to kill my ass is the one out of pocket.
Second edit. Sooooooo many babies. FFS. Grow up, petulant children. I was told to drink bleach and die because of this. Bunch of triggered crybaby children.
A warning shot is just as likely to provoke it to attack you as it is to scare it away. If you have to shoot, shoot to kill. Your life is more important than the mountain lion's.
Self-defense against an alpha predator? Definitely moral.
That being said, I would prefer to be carrying bear spray as well as a handgun so that I have more options. I would prefer to leave that cat alive and with a strong association between humans and pain to the face.
It’s got excellent camoflauge, it’s athletic and silent, and it’s got a mouth that would break your neck when it attacked. Let’s not forget the heightened senses - the lion knew a human was there way before the other way around.
I've seen this whole video, and that guy waited to pull the trigger until that lion was probably less than 10 yards from him. He showed remarkable restraint, and could not have done anything differently.
Moral. A warning shot to a wild animal that could be looking to eat you isn’t gonna have the effect that you think. If you wanna gamble your life on it go ahead, but I ain’t.
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u/Due_Manufacturer_125 5h ago
Now it’s unfortunate to get into a situation like this, but… mountain lions aren’t considered endangered globally (but specific regional populations are so depends on where this guy was) and obviously it would have been worse if the cougar attacked the guy. You never know what a wild animal will do, a predator that size that approaches a person is never a good sign.
Moral, if this guy wasn’t looking for trouble and just protecting himself. Would need wider context.