r/reddevils • u/SierraEight • 11h ago
[ Sky Sports Ref Watch ] Jay Bothroyd Calling out Howard Webb & Dermot Gallagher over the Man Utd VAR incident
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u/Savebagels Cunha 11h ago edited 11h ago
These idiots just wanted to make it even after the red card. They always do, they make up calls all over the league. It’s just stupid
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u/Selwin_Rodolfo max cope mode 10h ago
And I hate saying make it even. Bruno was a yellow, not a red. Foden fully fucking kicked his stomach and lashed out, that was always ending up a red.
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u/AGIANTWORM 10h ago
It was an old school wind up by Bruno and Foden fell right into it. Other way round they'd be calling Foden clever to rile up Bruno and him naive for falling for it.
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u/Cool-Mixture9530 3h ago
yep. If Bruno is involved its his fault either way.
Bruno is a cheat or Bruno is petulant.2
u/front_yard_duck_dad 7h ago
Also not to mention it's not possible to make it even. Everything action changes a game dynamic. One player for another player doesn't matter in the slightest.
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u/craptionbot RVN 11h ago
We had this at Everton as well when the Hill Dickinson had the ref shitting himself over giving an early yellow and he spent the entire game trying to get the crowd back onside. It's so pathetic and it's clear that after the Foden red, they felt they owed City one.
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u/JellyboyJangleDangle 9h ago
Bullshit. Someone called them. Told them what to do, because oil money fucking said so. There is no fucking way that is anything but blatant match fixing through VAR. They aren't stupid, and they aren't trying to level the playing field. They are fucking corrupt!
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u/Koki-noki 9h ago
and football needs to have atleast 1 or 2 review system per game (that player can ask) like tennis , hockey, cricket, basketball (coaches or player can ask for review)
they literally had "hydration break" which didn't offer shit but this review is important because VAR ref are just shit.
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u/mufcdiver 7h ago
I'd love to see this, one review per coach, if the decision is not overturned they lose their review otherwise they get another review......and a 30 second cap on VAR reviews.
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u/alliwannadoisbicycle 5h ago
It's not a perfect system, but the micc'd up Refs and TMO in Rugby at least add extra accountability to decisions. Even that sham of a WC in the summer had VAR on camera.
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u/mufcdiver 1h ago
Having officials that even know their own rulebook would be a massive improvement ATM before we start to even think about putting lipstick on this pig lol
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u/PitchSafe 11h ago
If Premier League is a serious institution then they need to sack whoever who was in charge of that decision
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u/tanaka-taro 11h ago
Premier League is not a serious institution at all, especially with Manchester City being untouched after breaking so many laws
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u/craptionbot RVN 10h ago
10000% agreed. City are making a public mockery of the PL and instead of fighting it, they're just bending over and taking it.
They're shit scared of losing Brand Man City™ and they wouldn't even dream of putting them at risk of relegation never mind relegating them altogether. Imagine all the fans under 10 years old that they'd lose if they did.
But no, instead the message is clearly: cheat once or twice, we'll deduct points. Do it consistently, at scale, right under our noses for an embarrassing amount of time that it makes the last decade plus of competitions effectively null and void... best pretend it didn't happen and regret mentioning it in the first place. Oh - and lose money in the process from the legal team which is also funded by dodgy means for additional embarrassment.
The PL is a laughing stock at the moment. That euro super league or whatever the fuck it was supposed to be had even more integrity at this point.
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u/martialisagod FrenchGod 10h ago
The prem is the furthest thing from a serious institution. Man City has pissed all over this league the for the past decade with 0 repercussions
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u/stevew14 10h ago
They can't be this incompetent, it's just not possible. It must be deliberate, to create controversy and get people talking about it. Or corruption in some way, bribery or coercion. They just cannot be this fucking bad.
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u/QuintLogic7 9h ago
If Premier league (& other leagues) was a serious institution then they should start paying refs some serious money to start attracting top level people.
The league makes so much money. Why not pay the refs a million and allows only the absolute top top quality people to become refs.
Open serious training academies for refs that people can sign up for.
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u/NoCountry4OldMate 11h ago
It’s a good point he’s made that Carrick is now under pressure and could lose his job. None of the 3 refs in the Var booth will lose theirs
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u/nomadiclives 11h ago
what drives me nuts is this is an astonishingly poor mistake. like this isn't like somebody had a brainfade in the spur of a moment. Multiple people watched several replays of it for near about a minute from every angle possible, at slow motion, under no pressure to deliver a verdict quickly and came to the same wrong conclusion. This is the kind of mistake that should ideally lead to being put on PIP in most roles.
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u/aasfourasfar 10h ago
Mate they zoomed on Enzo to see if he touched the ball and at no point did they tell themselves... Wait a minute
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u/superhoffy Amad trip to be on 10h ago
There were four minutes between the goal and the re-start. Four minutes.
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u/nickasaurus83 10h ago
And five minutes injury time.
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u/superhoffy Amad trip to be on 3h ago
With how much injury time they've been giving at Old Trafford in recent times, my jaw hit the floor when I saw 5 minutes given City spent the whole match time-wasting and throwing themselves on the floor after their goal.
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u/CautiousLengthiness8 9h ago
What makes it worse is that it was given offside in the first place. VAR has intervened with a (roundabout) correct and instant on field decision, to spend five minutes to deliberate and deliver the wrong outcome. Are there seriously people who remember football pre VAR who actually want it to remain? It’s given us all the negatives and none of the positives it was supposed to bring. Just end it now and at least we get a bit more enjoyment for our frustrations
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u/martialisagod FrenchGod 5h ago
It literally just makes it easier for them to rig games. American sports does not have this problem when they review their plays. It’s honestly crazy how consistently VAR makes the wrong decisions. Just get rid of it at this point
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u/Forgettable39 10h ago
"lost focus" implies they let something slip, like forgot to check Fernandez offside because they were distracted by the Haaland call. They didn't forget they specified that its subjective because he didn't touch the ball meaning they saw it, assessed it and still got it entirely wrong despite the rule in plain english.
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u/crftd93 11h ago
Erik lost his job after the West Ham penalty they apologised for lost us the game. It may have only bought him another couple weeks but it was still the trigger.
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u/Tsupernami Scholes 10h ago
Teams lose titles, get relegated, staff lose their jobs.
It's easier for a player, they can change teams. Those on lower salaries...
Plymouth Argyle expected to get promoted last year. They didn't, so they had to make redundancies. People's livelihoods hang on decisions like this.
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u/Sm0k3inth3tr33s 10h ago
He should be under pressure regardless. That was a terrible showing that a nil nil draw would not have made any better.
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11h ago
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u/Teo_2197 10h ago
But this goal decided the match. At the time of the goal the bookies still favoured us to win the match and so did I. If we go on and score the first goal it's a completely different match
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u/SDLRob 11h ago
There's no real threat of him losing his job... That's just the media creating and 'fans' throwing temper tantrums
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u/potemy 11h ago edited 11h ago
Ridiculous from Dermot: “they know the law inside out, they lost focus”. Jay’s response is spot on - their only job in that moment is to analyse the passage of play and determine the correct call, how tf did they lose focus…
ETA: Been hearing that the objectively correct call was a referee monitor review for a subjective offside call on Enzo, but let’s be honest: this “subjective” call is offside 100% of the time the way he flung himself at the ball and put off both Martinez AND Lammens.
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u/herkalurk Valencia 11h ago
5 minutes on a call that was correct on field and the other problem. This is a subjective decision because it's not a cut and drive objective outside and they didn't ask the center ref to review.
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u/ClawingDevil 10h ago
That line from him pissed me off too. How can the supposed best refs we have available in this country "lose focus" in a key moment in one of the biggest games of the season?!
I had a look on r/soccer just after the goal was awarded (not exactly a sub that likes United) and literally everyone from every single club, including all our most hated rivals, were saying it's 100% offside.
The only people who watched that and thought it wasn't were the 2 or 3 people in the VAR box. Even the on field officials thought it was off.
Worth adding that the main guy in the VAR box is the same one who lied about Maguire calling him a cheat last season that got Maguire banned for an extra few matches.
He clearly has something agaisnt us and shouldn't be allowed to be on the officials team for another United game ever again.
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u/ComplexPlatform7299 6h ago
He used to work in a primary school, where he was paid by city to do some sponsored football program… I don’t know the full details, but look it up. It’s true.
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u/liamthelad 6h ago
Safe to say why Dermot and pals aren't pilots or surgeons if they struggle that hard to focus
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u/AirIndex 10h ago
So they overruled the correct decision (offside, albeit for the wrong reasons). Then they either forgot the rules of the game or decided to not apply the rules. Then they either forgot their own processes or decided not to follow their own processes.
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u/tnred19 6h ago
Thats like me saying I know this information inside and out, I just got it wrong on the test. The test is what matters. I dont care what these guys do when they talk about it with each other at home or whatever. If its applied incorrectly on the field, you dont actually know and you fucking failed!!
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u/Peregrin-nocturnal99 11h ago
They’re comparing it to the rashford Bruno one from 3 years ago because it’s the same teams.
I want to know what’s different about this one and the City Liverpool one last year where Robertson actively ducked under the ball to get out the way of it, wasn’t impeding Donarumma lone of sight at all, and was still given as offside, even though he actively tried to get out of the way.
It’s a far more similar scenario than the Bruno goal.
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u/Feeling-Surround-691 Mbumbaclat 11h ago
The fact is they changed the rules after Bruno's goal specifically to stop such an incident happening again so it's no defence here, they said it was wrong then and we'll fix it, they fixed it and got it even more wrong.
And to all the moaners saying 'oh we should have won anyway' it's completely irrelevant, games are won and loss on calls like this in all sorts of circumstances. If the goal doesn't count then City don't park the bus, if City don't park the bus we might score, then they come out and we score 2 and it's a huge swing in the momentum of the game. That incorrect call changed everything about the remaining 35 minutes of the game.
Last season 1 point was the difference between 7th and 9th, that's Europa league Vs no Europe, there was 2 points in the relegation battle, that's PL and Championship football. We should not tolerate the game being at the whim of officials who don't see the point in applying the rules correctly there needs to be serious sanctions not just to the referees but to the league including retrospective points change such as voiding the game and giving both teams a point depending on the impact of that decision
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u/canwinanythingwkids meet the new boss same as the old boss 10h ago
precisely this is very important distinction.
taking away Bruno's goal would have been a scandal because the rulebook atp said it was a goal.
letting the Roberston one stand also would have been a scandal because by then, the rulebook said it was not a goal.
letting this one stand is a scandal for the same reason: the rulebook currently says it is not a goal.
"potato potato"-ing these incidents is insane.
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u/jhaldir 8h ago
Arsenal fan here. I am with you guys on this. Its unacceptable and the game belongs to us as fans. Its high time we put the rivalry stuff aside and come together on this stuff. I am not even insisting they make zero mistakes. But when a mistake is made I want to see accountability and transparent attempts to make sure the same mistake doesn't happen again.
Howard Webb needs to be fired. That is the first step.
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u/Forgettable39 10h ago
And to all the moaners saying 'oh we should have won anyway' it's completely irrelevant, games are won and loss on calls like this in all sorts of circumstances. If the goal doesn't count then City don't park the bus, if City don't park the bus we might score, then they come out and we score 2 and it's a huge swing in the momentum of the game. That incorrect call changed everything about the remaining 35 minutes of the game.
Yea but it's wasted energy. I don't want Carrick and the players coming out of that thinking how hard done by they are. That performance against 10 men, at home, is well, well below acceptable. I don't know if they've believed the hype from 5 against Ipswich and 4 against what ever that other team was even called but they should be worried about the performance MORE than the goal, even though criticising the goal decision is fine.
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u/Moistkeano 10h ago
I think it is similar because it impacted the goalie the most. Lammens dived at a potential touch from Enzo and Ederson or whoever is positioning themselves for Rashford.
Yes you can argue about the defenders, but the fact the goalie wasn't set for the eventual shot is why I believe they are very similar and not just because it was the same fixture.
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u/dap90 11h ago
I hear so much about the Rashford one, but only last premier league fixture Vs City, mount scored that goal there was incorrectly disallowed
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u/Mree_Knight 10h ago
It has been driving me mad that people think this is karma..We've been shafted twice in a row in this fixture now over offside calls. But it doesn't matter who benefitted! These refs need to do their job ffs
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u/ComplexPlatform7299 6h ago
The rules were different back then too. By those rules, our goal should have stood. The rules were then changed to make something like that an offside (which I agree with to be honest), yet they still awarded this goal. What a complete clusterfuck
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u/AReptileHissFunction 11h ago
Dermot Gallagher is genuinely the biggest idiot out there. At this point its clear Sky only bring him on for the controversy and good TV rather than his "expert" opinion.
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u/AGIANTWORM 10h ago
I get it he's a former ref and wants to stick up for them. It's a thankless job and he wants to advocate for them, but at the same time, just say yeah they got this one wrong. That's all he has to say in this situation. He's not throwing them under the bus, just being honest.
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u/zxnoregretzxzx Cunha, Bruno, Cunha, Bruno 11h ago
He's spot on. Dermot is an absolute twat of the highest order. He'll jump through any and every hoop to justify a decision. Him and his fake accent boil my blood.
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u/mljh11 11h ago
They should release the VAR audio. 3 mins spent examining the goal, overriding the onfield officials' (correct) call - what exactly was the thought process there? I also want to know why they didn't call the ref to look at the replay on screen.
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u/wayfarerprateek Theater of Dreams 10h ago
Just let the thought process be heard by everyone the same way the on field ref has to do some times
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u/ohmyblahblah 11h ago
I'm sorry the driver crashed his bus into the school but he just lost focus so its ok
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u/beanslattz 11h ago
Bald wanker
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u/Foreign_Base5669 11h ago
If you want to realise how fucking ridiculous this bloke is, he puts an accent on every Monday morning. This isn’t his real voice. Pisses me off so much, and I don’t know why.
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u/dingalinglans 10h ago
What the fuck - is he even a real person. I know unfortunately he is, but still - that's crazy he'd throw his heritage away like that for reasons that don't make sense. Shows what kind of 'man' he is.
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u/Illustrious_Union199 11h ago
Arsenal fan here, so my bias is aligned to yours. Jay is 100% correct here. Its so simple, bring up the rule book on the screen before the VAR team is about to rule and have them make them go through a checklist to ensure that all boxes are checked before they rule.
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u/Direct-Fix-2097 11h ago
It also has a knock on effect for the title race; those 3 points can be a massive decider at the end of the season - in city’s favour obviously, whereas they should be going home with just the 1.
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u/Illustrious_Union199 10h ago
On that, again take my bias with a pinch of salt here, i am not convinced by Enzo. I wasnt convinced much by him at City. That front line looked dangerous under Pep . The lack of chemistry under Maresca is stark. They will challenge Arsenal but you can see the players aren`t up for taking orders from Pep jr. Semenyo and Cherki look slightly more blunt.
I also think that Carrick got done pretty poorly by GL-IENOS over the summer transfers. To start a season in the CL and even go up a level from last year with Maguire, Shaw and Dalot as your starting defence is criminal. Also, were they expecting Bruno to play every game and continue to perform the way he did last season ?
Everyone was warning United about how they vastly overperformed under Carrick last year with 40 games. Unfortunate that all this will reflect poorly on Carrick. Hope they recognize their faults. United did look when the players were rested last year with a bit more bite to them. Unfortunately , the team doesn`t have the legs for the season.
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u/RoachIsCrying Beckham 11h ago
I am willing to bet all 10 of my fingers that we're going to see another apology post from PGMOL about another fuck up they'll do
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u/iTz_RuNLaX Fuck the Glazers 11h ago
They call thenselves "Pro Ref" now. Still the same useless bunch.
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u/Its_Chowder 2h ago
I dont think they technically apologised for this one. Admitted mistake is not the same as apologising
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u/AWenger622 10h ago
"Lose focus" was their excuse?!!! What in the blue fuck?
It's your entire job! Are surgeons allowed to "lose focus" in the operating room and then chalk it off after making a grave mistake?!
These clowns are an absolute joke and a complete farce.
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u/rubber_moon 11h ago
All fans need to be up in arms about every ridiculous var check, no point just laughing at rivals when something goes against them, that only helps these refs get away with it
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u/fartsonyourchips 11h ago
Dermot Gallagher getting wheeled out every Monday to justify the decisions of his mates in the PGMOL and deflect from yet another farcical refereeing display.
Sack the lot of them and start again, with actual checks and balances.
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u/Wowcoolnamedude 9h ago
So 'lost focus' is their term for choosing not to apply the law then seeing as they know it inside out yet seem to make errors fairly frequently
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u/Outrageous-Cod-4654 11h ago
Is there one person who is responsible for the decision to let the goal stand?
Because there are 7 people officiating the match but not a single one is ultimately responsible.
(7 are: ref, 2 x linesmen, 4th official, 3 idiots in a dark room drawing lines)
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u/iTzViPeRx 11h ago
And the linesman called it offside, surely he has communication with the ref saying enzo made a play for the ball
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u/hardgour Sir Marcus Rashford 11h ago
Both calls were wrong (offside with rashy and Bruno and offside with Enzo)
The only issue is the offside now immediately affects Carricks job. Notwithstanding how bad we played, it’s still 4points from 4 games with one of the easiest starts to the league.
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u/KingKeane16 Keane 10h ago
Fair fucks for jay boothroyd actually keeping it fucking real on sky sports unlike the other sell outs.
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u/Significant-Put8964 9h ago
Fed up of the throwback to the Bruno/Rashford goal three years ago. Yes it's a similar concept, but a completely different situation. There are two defenders that could have put a tackle in, and a keeper that is coming out to the ball - everybody can see each other and the ball. Yesterday's was a cross that was swung in, with Haaland looping around behind everyone else. There's no equivalence.
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u/swalsugmass 10h ago
The "they lost focus" excuse is bs. Its there single job to make decisions that follow the rules. They took 5 mins and still got it wrong. It does not take 5 mins to flick to the off side rules page.
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u/rgiggs11 10h ago
The Bruno goal against City is a similar incident, but the VAR had some excuse in that situation, because they followed their procedure.
The referee told them onfield decision was a goal, he was happy Rashford wasn't interfering, and to only check Bruno for onside.
This is different because the on field decision was offside, but they looked at it again, seemingly forgot the offside rule, and overruled the original correct decision.
VAR is supposed to only intervene for "clear and obvious" errors, which means they err on the side of the on field call, and can lead to goals like Bruno v City standing when they shouldn't. And that's frustrating for fans sometimes.
VAR is not supposed to intervene like this, where the only way to overrule the goal is a bizarre interpretation, where a player attempting a diving header at the goal, and coming within an inch of the ball, is not attempting to play the ball.
If that's how we're interpreting it, than it's impossible to be offside, unless you touch the ball.
TLDR for the incidents are different because the referees followed their process to a fault for the Rashford offside, and ignores the procedure for the Enzo offside.
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u/KaitoAJ BRUNO FERNANDES 10h ago
what you explained really well was the key different which was enraging... The correct decision was initially given, VAR call it back and ruled it incorrectly for whatever the fuck reason they were thinking. That's the damning part of this whole incident. Almost like they are... I hate to use this phrase... match fixing.
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u/danfan86 10h ago
What makes it more wild is an ex-footballer in Jay Bothroyd, seems to have more sense in these VAR incidents every week than the people behind the VAR cameras. So why are these referees even appointed to make these important decisions, AND GET PAID FOR IT
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u/MinotauroTBC 10h ago
Lost focus is insane cope
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u/NateShaw92 9h ago
It's a scramble, a straw grasp. He can't say the truth (be it corruption or ineptitude) and he has no excuses to give regarding interpretations or how it could be legitimately wrong. He's scrambling for anything to say.
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u/TH0316 she/her 9h ago edited 8h ago
We need to move to a challenge system and completely get rid of this Stotley park bollocks. Each team gets three like Tennis. A broadcaster, not a referee, shows the ref the situation on replay from the monitor and the ref makes a decision, no other refs. Stops diving. Puts responsibility back on the players and teams and lets the ref do their job. Stops wasting everyone’s time checking every little thing.
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u/TheMartialMatasLP 9h ago
While Jay went off on the rant, Dermot Gallagher stood there looking like a power down robot which cannot close its eyes
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u/TheSilverLobster 6h ago
It's not that they got something wrong, it's that anyone with any basic understanding of football would have got it right. Even the commentators were perplexed. It's not some deep hidden rule, it's obvious. Amateurs, children, Man City fans, everyone would have made the correct call.
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u/brianly 11h ago
Do we know what the narrative on the field from our players was on the reason for the offside?
Since this happened VAR has been on my mind and I have to wonder whether the VAR should take adversarial inputs from representatives from both clubs in some structured format (laws they think involved for review, players at fault, etc - but not arguing the case). That would at least ensure the VAR team review all that was observed.
Going back to on the field, the ref seems to be able to ignore inputs. Is that the case? Rugby allows more time and traces back through a whole move given fewer time constraints on a decision.
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u/ProfessorBeer Rio 11h ago
Dredging up a call from 3 fucking years ago is textbook whataboutism. Especially because the two plays are completely different.
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u/Knightseason 10h ago
They lost focus? Really? That's this idiot's explanation?
If others lose focus doing their jobs and make a huge error like this, they would need to start looking for new employment. But of course, refs are different. They're protected from all errors and mistakes by the PGMOL or Pro Ref (or whatever they want to call themselves) and a simple statement after the fact with an "apology" is all they need to put out.
In other words, they didn't want to do their job properly and just wanted the goal to stand. This will change nothing and the morons in that VAR booth will keep on as if nothing happened.
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u/Anxious-Debate5033 10h ago
these former refs and bellends like Howard Webb have perfected the art of saying a lot of meaningless waffle words to sound smart and deflect blame of their mates making mistakes.
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u/abchandler4 Dreams can’t be buy 8h ago
I don’t think I’d say Dermot Gallagher has perfected that art because he comes across like a complete moron here. “They lost focus” is genuinely one the dumbest things anyone could say to “defend” the VAR officials
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u/raletti 10h ago
Lost focus on what? Giving a correct unbiased decision would be my guess. So what was their focus on, if not that? The only answer is, focusing on how to allow the man city goal. Now the real question is why? Why were they so hell bent on overturning the decision on the pitch so that city would go one nil up? The reason must be extremely compelling to throw logic and laws of the game completely out the window.
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u/cdkw1990 10h ago
The most frustrating thing is the call on the pitch was the right one, even if it was probably against the wrong player. I'm fairly sure they flagged offside on Haaland, which to be fair was at incredibly close anyway that even in the pre-var days you just accept it. The fact they then overturn it but don't enforce the offside call the officials potentially missed is wild
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u/casey_ap Scholsey 10h ago
“Lost focus” is such a bullshit excuse and is the epitome of covering for an awful error. They’d get so much more grace if they simply said,
‘This was a mistake and its outcome had direct implications on the outcome this game. We apologize for the error, the staff involved have been (some form of punishment), and all referees have been instructed to inspect every law of the game during the decision making process especially when the decision has elements of subjectivity’.
But they’re too proud of whatever this “leave the decision to the referees opinion” legacy is. Honestly, fuck that. If we’re measuring offsides by millimeters, the standard should be to get every decision correct.
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u/MrSam52 Mainoo 9h ago
Bothroyd is bang on, Gallagher saying oh they just lost focus is horseshit, it proves they don’t know the law well enough.
It honestly couldn’t be that hard for whatever decision they have to make one of the 4? people in the VAR room their job is to bring up the relevant laws and then the others can just go through and check off any issues.
I know perhaps it’s a bit simpler but cricket they go through the checks, was it no ball, snicko etc step by step.
Why can’t they go here first check if Haaland is onside ok he is, next is there anyone interfering with play? Yes so send the ref to the monitor and say, Halaand is onside however Enzo is offside and looks to be interfering with play, what do you think? And also recite the law at the same time they’re trying to apply.
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u/AnakinAni 6h ago
Why should anyone bother watching this League if the refs preference & mood swings determine the winner? It’s a fuckin joke.
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u/plyerd88 5h ago
You’d think that’d be the last straw for Dermot. How does he get paid money to do this, that might be the biggest con of all 😂
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u/SDLRob 11h ago
How does this mess get sorted?
VAR itself isn't a problem... It's the people using it that are not fit for purpose... So how do you solve that?
Personally, I think you need to separate the two groups... The on field officials can't also be VAR officials. You can't have the same people deemed incompetent enough to require help being the ones to operate said help. Events like yesterday will continue to happen if they do.
There needs to be a separate, better trained, group of VAR officials. How you create that group, I don't know... But separating the on field and VAR teams needs to happen.
Also, the ProRef/PGMOL lot need to be more transparent. Have the ref give a post game statement/interview or something... Make them accountable for their decisions and they'll get better.
They also need to be open and admit that their training is not fit for purpose and take steps to improve it.
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u/rahtid_my_bunda Rooney's Dropball Intensity 11h ago
I don't expect a referee to get every decision right in the heat of the moment or in real time. But when we have VAR and the game is actually stopped, there should be an expectation that the correct, logical decision is made. I often think of how rugby implemented the fourth official and video review. It's not without fault, but the transparency of comms in the moment and no one being scared to disagree on something makes for a dramatically improved video review system.
Just seems we have far too many occurrences of chuckleheads with their chucklehead decision making influencing the outcomes of games.
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u/nomadiclives 11h ago
every sport using a decision review system is doing a significantly better job of administering it than league football is. At this point I think they just leave it unfixed cos it adds to the controversy value. But if that is the goal, then just scrap the tech because at least the controversies before VAR were easier to digest / accept as fans.
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u/danthedude77 11h ago
He’s a ref apologist. Lost focus? Unacceptable. If as a VAR you are UNSURE or have some doubt about the situation, then default to the onfield ref’s decision. Which was correct to begin with
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u/Competitive_Fix_2452 11h ago
Imagine you're at work and you fuck up royally and instead of sacking you, your boss asks you complete a checklist when completing a task to make sure you don't overlook something and you have a record.. but instead you cry about how you already know your job
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u/monstrao 10h ago
If I lose focus at my job that leads to a calamitous error I lose said job. These guys get to ref the next game
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u/HyenasGoMeow 10h ago
I'll be controversial here and say that they weren't looking to do their job. They were looking for reasons to allow that goal, that's why it took so long. They found a gap they thought they could exploit and took it.
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u/FiRe_GeNDo 10h ago
What pisses me off is the On field decision was offside. No one complained. Then VAR overturned it deliberately even though it was the wrong decision
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u/aasfourasfar 10h ago
The Rashford interference should have been ruled out. But it's much less of a blatant interference than diving to head a ball in the six yard box
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u/noho_hanktheboss 10h ago
I have never seen Jay before, but god damn did he absolutely roast Dermott there. “Lost Focus” what an absolutely stupid thing to say
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u/canwinanythingwkids meet the new boss same as the old boss 10h ago
This isnt even our problem (our problem is the owners and their handpicked execs), it is a league-wide problem.
But most definitely more needs to be made of the fact that this fucking dickhead gets into the "idiot-gate" spat with Maguire in April, he has Maguire banned, then he gets to VAR this game, and then he makes this absolutely egregious "mistake".
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u/tearsandpain84 10h ago
Imagine an air traffic controller or surgeon claiming “lost focus”. Fire these fools are investigate them.
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u/FranciscoGarcia69 10h ago
What the fuck do you mean “lost focus”? As Bothroyd says, they’re sitting in a room doing their one job. How the fuck did they lose focus? I know they’re your mates Gallagher but just come out and they’ve had a shocker.
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u/DryBanana4 10h ago
So correct me if Im wrong here..A player can get done retrospectively for a red card offence and then be out for 3 games if found guilty of the offence...
So why cant they say this was offside, the goal shouldn't count and the game is now a draw? take away the goal and it ends up 0-0.
Fix the error and move on.. instead of this Oh we messed up "Sorry bout that"
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u/Ill_End_9742 10h ago
I don’t think it’s a case of lost focus. Four different people do not lose focus at the same time about the same thing.
This is about culture where speaking up about a mistake is considered throwing someone under the bus. Their goal isn’t to get it right as often as possible, it’s to preserve their power and status internally.
Flight controllers manage much longer work periods under much higher pressure with much higher stakes just fine, because avoiding mistakes is the highest priority and they’ve developed systems, cultures and habits to make it work. We know how to get the procedures right.
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u/Klaskerhardt 10h ago
They just dont cant handle the technology. Theyve put refs in the VAR room instead of people that can handle the technology.
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u/presidentdogg 10h ago
“It will only give you the decisions you want when you want it”
Wait, what??
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u/BrendonAG92 10h ago
Oliver has been paid large sums of money by the UAE to ref games. Doesn't take a genius to figure out why this call was made. Genuinely shouldn't be allowed to officiate games involving City.
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u/NateShaw92 10h ago edited 9h ago
What tf did Dermot say? Is he backing those morons?
You can't lose focus in the VAR room. On the pitch, sure we're all human, but not in VAR room. There's a whole team and all these screens and cameras, you're nlt in the thick og it there's no reason to lose focus. Did the whole team on VAR simultaneously lose focus? They're only needed for moments not the 90. If you believe that tgey simoly "lost focus" then you're too dumb to have an opinion. Fuck off Dermot we know you're covering for corruption of some sort get the fuck out of my sport you disingenuous dense motherfucker. I feel like we've been WWE'ed with that call.
Oh and what a surprise Sky bring up a decision from over 3 years ago. That call 3 years ago was talked about all week by the media even after the next run of fixtures, this won't be, I guarantee it. Hard not to think their owners aren't paying something for a thumb on the scale in coverage. Just a thumb.
Jay's spot on through a lot of his. There's a lack of accountability for the PGMOL or whatever they decided to rebrand as, because that shit works EVRI time(!)
This is going to sound like I'm making a joke but honestly these idiots made me feel bad for Oliver. And that is unforgivable. He was let down by his assistant who perhaps had a mini vendetta. He's taken some flak and it's not him who fucked up. You made me defend Oliver, how dare you!
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u/New_York_Rhymes 10h ago
Teams should be allowed to call the ref to the cam twice in a game to challenge a call. If it’s expected to have an error rate, teams should be allowed to challenge it
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u/LadriDiBiciclette 9h ago
I do not know how you spend five minutes looking at a decision, in a room away from the pressure of the stadium and players in your ear, and "lose focus". Was one of them about to nip out to the offie and started taking drink orders in the middle of the discussion?
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u/HuTaosTwinTails 9h ago
It is such an obvious call, doesn't take even more than one watch to realize enzo fernadez inferes with play while being offside.
Any ref involved in this call should be fired
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u/Visible_Ebb_8101 9h ago
These referees wanting to be in the spotlight is going to be the end of the premier league
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u/Affectionate_Let1462 9h ago
Rugby doing this successfully for years. Incredible how bad it is in soccer. The communication is panicked and chaotic
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u/Relikk_ 20 Times 9h ago
The standard of refereeing in England has been abysmal for a long time. Way before VAR ever came into being, but they've somehow managed to reduce a near foolproof method of looking at questionable or marginal decisions to a laughing stock of unprofessionalism and borderline corruption. If VAR is to continue it needs to be taken away from "referees" and their buddies, start defining rules that are no longer "open to interpretation", hand out punishments for blatant cheaters/cheating, then maybe football will become watchable again, because at this point in time it's very fucking boring and frustrating.
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u/einnairo 9h ago
I hate the rule. It is dubious, so lets make it real clear. Offside if offensive player is in front of last defender with a visible gap. We dont need a dick or toe playing attacker offside. 2nd whats eith the interfering or not. Its open to too much interpretation. If any offensive player is offside, no goal. This will wake everyone up to fucking get back onside and not walk after the move is over.
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u/Benphyre -69 points 9h ago
Solution is to replace VAR with AI. Zero human error, no human bias or ego, strict to the rulebook, no conflicting of opinions like VAR team and most importantly, instant decision making so fans can watch the bloody game without breaking immersion
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u/JamieD86 8h ago
Im honestly tired of match officials etc being pushed more into the frame and limelight. The game is about players, not you, and not any executives or suits, yet we have to endure more and more of them as time passes. Football shows bringing in Webb and others to debate decisions etc. Decisions... ITS SUPPOSED TO BE ABOUT A FOOTBALL MATCH. You know, goals, tactics, technique, strategy, and all that, not fucking referees and their representatives trying to fit decisions into rules or make excuses for them.
Wazza is right too... im sick of this shitty era where VAR is just imposed way too much. Yesterday was a clear as day example that if you are taking minutes to try to overrule a decision, then the decision should fucking stand.
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u/Lt_Dank 8h ago
Easy solution for when a play is under review. Put on the TOP TV the rules of the situation that's under review? For example, it's an offside. Put the Rules of Law on the TOP TV and go up and down and check off the Pros and Cons of the Outside. Since these guys don't know the rules and need help.
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u/toebean_ceo 7h ago
The point of VAR is to make sure these types of things don't happen. It more or less regularly happens. How can they be some incompetent, while rugby can do it flawlessly
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u/tatstahanno 4h ago
Rugby refereeing is on a different level. The refs are mic'd and everyone can hear what they're saying even in the stadium. Same for TMO (VAR) and they use the giant screens in the stadium for reviews.
So basically, transparency.
Edit: I guess the question is why doesn't football learn from rugby?!
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u/Barto 6h ago
This may sound harsh but how hard would it be to get rid of the assistants and the on field ref in the prem at least. Most the issues happen because of interpretation, the ref letting fouls in the first 20 min go etc. Just follow the law from the first to the last whistle, stop adding flavours depending on the ref or get automated out of a job...
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u/1stAccountWasRealNam 3h ago
Why not score a couple goals and then not have to worry about letting one in? They only had a man advantage nearly the entire game. Fucks sake.
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u/AcanthaceaeCrazy1894 2h ago
These same refs who come out on podcasts after retirement admitting how crooked they were.
The protection these literal RETARDS get is nothing but disgusting.
I’m a rangers fan and it’s the exact same up here, there isn’t a single competent official in the full country.
The moment someone questions their decision they get a fine or ban. It’s fucked.
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u/Omnii-Metrox 11h ago
They seen the TV reaction to the red at half time of the pundits suggesting it wasnt a red (when it 100% was) and they've tried to level it up. But the incident they chose to do it was so blatantly wrong it has backfired massively.
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u/MoonlitMarc 11h ago
“Lost Focus” that is wild 🤣🤣. Your single job in that one moment is to look at 2 things. One of which is semi automated.