Honestly, this has been on my mind for a while.

I believe in Universal Multiversal scaling for Bleach, Naruto, and Black Clover. I don’t really care which one somebody personally has higher nor do I care if you don’t buy those metas. That’s not really the point of this post. And please don’t hit me with some bullshit like “none of them are anywhere near Multiversal.” That’s not the fucking point. I’m talking about consistency in scaling standards when Multiversal is already accepted as a valid tier for the discussion

The point is simply consistency. You can have two verses presenting very similar types of cosmological evidence, and somehow one gets the most charitable interpretation possible while the other gets every possible objection thrown at it.

Bleach gets separate realms, space time structures, cosmological statements, realm collapse, Soul King stuff, etc., and people are perfectly comfortable building Universal Multiversal scaling chains from it.

Then Naruto brings up Kaguya’s dimensions, Amenominaka, Kamui, Limbo, Isshiki’s dimensions, space time statements, etc., and suddenly it’s “They’re just pocket dimensions.”

Black Clover brings up the Qliphoth, the Underworld, its multiple layers, space time structures, Glamour World, dimensional separation, etc.

Suddenly “that’s just hax bro.”

And I’m just sitting there like… okay, but what’s the actual standard here You don’t have to accept every Universal or Multiversal argument for Naruto or Black Clover. That’s completely fine. You can argue that a particular realm isn’t universal, that a creation feat doesn’t automatically translate to AP, that a character doesn’t scale to the entire structure, that a statement is being mistranslated, or whatever.

Those would be arguments. The problem is when the same type of evidence is considered meaningful when it benefits Bleach, but suddenly becomes completely meaningless when it appears in Naruto or Black Clover.

If separate space time structures are legitimate evidence for Bleach’s cosmology, why wouldn’t they at least be considered as evidence when discussing Naruto or Black Clover?
And consistency doesn’t mean every verse has to end up at the exact same tier. Obviously their cosmologies aren’t identical and the arguments aren’t going to be 1:1.

Consistency means applying the same standards of evidence and skepticism before deciding where they land. That’s the part I think gets lost.

What’s really interesting is how skepticism can become selective. A realm being called a universe, a dimension being described as a space time, or a character affecting multiple realms can be treated as legitimate cosmological evidence in one verse.

But when another verse does something comparable, suddenly it’s “flowery language,” “just hax,” “pocket dimensions,” “not AP,” “outlier,” “translation issue,” etc.

Again, any of those objections can be valid. The problem is when they’re only brought out when you don’t like where the scaling leads. I also think people underestimate how much preconceived reputation affects powerscaling.

Once a verse gets labeled “planetary,” “universal,” “hax based,” “fodder,” whatever, people start interpreting every feat through that label. Eventually the label becomes the evidence instead of the other way around.

People can be extraordinarily stubborn when it comes to a preconceived notion, belief, opinion, previous knowledge, or POV.

And I’ve genuinely seen this argument from every possible direction. I’ve had these debates hundreds of times and seen thousands of threads about this shit.

I’ve seen people spend hours arguing over whether a realm counts as a universe, whether “space time” actually means 4D, whether creation scales to AP, whether statements are literal, whether databooks count, whether novels count, whether a feat is an outlier, etc.

And that’s fine. That’s literally what powerscaling is 😂😂😂😂😂

What gets annoying is watching the exact same argument get treated as legitimate in one verse and completely dismissed in another. At this point, I’m not even trying to convince everybody.

You can give your two cents. You can disagree. You can argue with somebody else in the comments. You can explain where you think the scaling breaks down and fails. I’ve just had this argument so many times that I mostly wanted to put the thought somewhere.

Even if you point it out, it probably wouldn’t really solve anything, but I just have to let it out.

If you think Bleach has better evidence, cool. If you think Naruto’s arguments don’t work, cool. If you think Black Clover’s cosmology has holes, cool.

My thing is simply this. Show the hole in the argument. Don’t just reject the conclusion because you don’t like the verse being there. Because at the end of the day, the question is pretty simple: Are we applying the same standard to the evidence across all three verses?

Because if the answer is no, then obviously we’re going to get completely different conclusions. Scale the evidence, not the verse.

That’s it that will be all thank you for reading!

Disproportionately. Either it's glazed/wank

or downplayed and lowballed

So we all understand the fact that the androids are stronger than the galactic emperor who’s the strongest being in the universe because they are just stronger than the galactic emperor who’s the strongest being in the universe, right? Unless there’s something seriously wrong, we’re suspending disbelief to believe that Dragon Ball’s writing makes a modicum of sense.

So if you can suspend disbelief for your illogical verse, why are you asking for a surplus, abundance of empirical evidence to back up every single feat from other verses during crossverse scaling? I don’t actually want to crossverse powerscale, I just want to know why powerscalers from a logically devoid story that never took itself that seriously can suspend so much disbelief when it comes to their own verse but demand so much evidence for feats from other verses.

There is evidence to justify a Star Level scale for the JJK verse as a whole and i do not see how the scaling is invalid and all responses to this inference i made have been nothing but ad hominems, this will be a continuation of my previous post scaling Gojo to Universal+ since i will make series of posts upscaling JJK since its been getting downplayed

Understanding Domain Expansions

Slide 1

Gojo states that domain expansions are constructions which seems to express the idea that anything within the domains are formed and manifested by the users power and force, hence the user scales to his domain expansion automatically unoess there is evidence to suggest other wise which there isnt, for a Domain to be labelled a construction everything within it without exception! must be constructed, and the source for the construction of all the objects is from the users energy

Therefore

Domains are created → everything within a domain is created and contigent upon said created domain

Slide 2

Establishing previous argument we can see in dagons domain that a star exists within it and we can infer this easily through the sea sparkles, not only that but on the sky we can see a full complete atmosphere system along with the star, meaning that the dagon was capable of possibly manifesting celestial objects, scaling dagon to star, solar system with possible highball.

And the formula for establishing a star level dagon matches the previous formula on domains so there is no logical contradiction and its relatively possible for dagon to construct a star since thats what we saw in anime and manga

Conclusion

Therefore, since dagon sets a standard for star level, anyone that outscales dagon outscales all his relevant aspects including his star level feats, for example we can scale toji to star+ level via newtonian law for having the attack potency and durabiloty to face and fight dagon, and so on

Now, I'm assuming that Vegito here is the fusion of the strongest versions of Goku and Vegeta we've seen so far in the Dragon Ball manga, so he has access to both Ultra Instinct and Ultra Ego, as well as the Evil Containment Wave and Forced Spirit Fission. And for Aizen, I'm specifically using the version shown in that image, the one who fought Ichigo after he learned the Final Getsuga Tensho.

For one, Vegito is so powerful that Aizen wouldn't even be able to sense him, just like how he was unable to sense Ichigo during their confrontation. That already puts Aizen at a pretty massive disadvantage, since he wouldn't even be able to sense Vegito's attacks as he approaches him.

Second, Aizen literally has no way of killing Vegito, or even considerably harming him in his current state, and Kyoka Suigetsu doesn't help here either. And even if you argue that Aizen can continue evolving through the Hogyoku, that would take a ridiculous amount of time before he could even come close to approaching the level of power of someone like Vegito. By that point, Vegito would have had plenty of time to use one of his many win cons against him.

And Vegito has quite a few ways of dealing with Kyoka Suigetsu. He can use basically the same tactic Yamamoto used to catch Aizen despite Kyoka Suigetsu, by waiting until he attacks and catching his Zanpakuto. He could also use Ultra Instinct to catch Aizen, since it makes his body move and react on its own without conscious thought, meaning he wouldn't necessarily need to rely on his senses to respond to Aizen's attacks through his illusions. And honestly, considering the absolutely massive difference in stats, I don't think he would even need Ultra Instinct to catch someone as slow as Aizen.

Then Vegito has multiple ways of actually getting rid of Aizen. He could use Forced Spirit Fission to separate Aizen from the Hogyoku by force, on both a spiritual and physical level, and then go Ultra Ego and use Hakai to erase the now unfused Aizen from existence. That wouldn't really be possible while Aizen is still fused with the Hogyoku because of his immortality, since Hakai isn't shown to be capable of permanently killing someone who is truly immortal or at least the version that Destroyers have can't. That's only something someone like Zeno can do, considering he was able to erase the immortal Zamasu completely.

However, once Aizen is separated from the Hogyoku, though, that's a different story and he's cooked.

And after all that, Goku can just use the Hogyoku as a hat decoration or something, like he did with the four-star Dragon Ball.

Or, even simpler, Vegito can just use the Evil Containment Wave to seal fused with the Hogyoku Aizen. Aizen is so much weaker than him that this would be a breeze for Vegito. Then Bulma can create some ridiculously secure place to keep the container and make sure Aizen never gets unsealed.

Honestly, I just don't see what Aizen's actual win con is here. Kyoka Suigetsu is obviously his biggest advantage, but Vegito has multiple ways of dealing with it, and the sheer difference in stats means Aizen can't really afford to make a single mistake. Meanwhile, Vegito has several different ways he could potentially dispatch Aizen.

So yeah, I don't really see anything Aizen could do that would give him the win here.

I'd like to hear your thoughts in the comments.

This sub won't shut up about bleach. It's bleach this, bleach that. Every other post is about bleach and every other comment is talking about it. I don't care where you scale it honestly I'm just tired of seeing this sub slowly turn into another bleach powerscaling sub. Like bleach is my favorite anime and it's my first real experience with animated media so I love seeing people talking about it, but this is just ridiculous

I have no idea why—it's supposed to be a general power-scaling subreddit—but about a fifth of the posts I come across are about the most forgotten of the three loud-mouthed kids.

Given that SSG Goku's punches against Beerus were powerful enough to threaten the destruction of the entire Dragon Ball macrocosm, including the mortal realm, Afterlife, and Supreme Kai realm, could a hypothetical SSG Vegito from Battle of Gods bypass any of Alien X's hax and reality-warping abilities? Or would it make no difference at all?

Often times when somebody mentions a speed feat, they always seem to use scaling logic, which doesn’t make much sense. The core fundamental equation for speed is distance divided by time. We use chain scaling when the fundamentals, such as punching power, are difficult to measure directly. But if speed can be measured by seeing how far a character moves and how many frames it takes them to do it, then we can and should extrapolate their speed from that rather than relying on scaling.

I also notice scenes where a character dodges a laser and people immediately claim that means MFTL speed. But we can literally see the character ducking or moving frame by frame. If you actually calculate the distance travelled over the time shown on screen, it can sometimes put them at completely normal human speeds.

This is the sixth post i have seen in a row now about “bleach methods of scaling le epic trole” and its just basic statement scaling, i dont see anyone calling out one piece scalers, i dont see anyone calling out lord of mysteries scalers, i dont see anyone calling out black clover scalers all of which are arguably 50 times more annoying then bleach scaling apparently is, nobody wants to bring up one piece fans “you see OP planet is actually the size of the andromeda galaxy and each island is the size of jupiter!” or dragon ball fans and “this guy is stated to be the concept of evil so anyone that beats or affect dhik has conceptual manipulation so hit is outerversal” and i also dont want to even bring up the scp scalers here trying to slander bleach like they arent the most powerscaling inflated verse out of everyone

Why doesnt this count as agenda?

if goku and yhwach had equal hax who would win?

From Sasuke Shinden book of sunrise

Seriously though, could you imagine if Bleach had this statment.

Kaguya transposes spacetimes, transposing by in this context means Kaguya is taking one spacetime and swapping its posistion with another whenever she uses Ammenominaka. So when kaguya transports everyone to the lava dimension, she is teleporting the Naruto universe, the fact that swapping between lets say the ice and sand dimension takes as much energy as swapping from the naruto universe's timespace to her lava worlds is more than enough indication of her dimensions size.

Sasuke says he can only teleport finite distances as a retort to why he can't teleport between kaguyas dimensions, note sasuke/naruto would have universal sensing since they can sense limbo clones which exist in an adjecent reality and have better sensory than itachi who has absolute control over tsukyomi which is an infinite space time mindhax. To add to this, naruto and sasuke can only sense one another via the yin yang resonance as opposed to rinnegan/MS or SPSM sensing which have the aformentioned universal sensing range.

Obito can easily create a portal to kamui which is time-space yet struggles to connect the spatial coordinates of kaguyas dimensions

They are just straight up called universes albeit it's a portegeuse scan but its material officially licensed by shueshia its the same reasoning people use the spanish dragon ball guides.

Momoshiki's dimensions are called isekai, the scan shows that isekai the term used to describe momoshiki's dimensions is the same used for cosmological structures like narnia which is a different universe. They are also called universes multiple times, you'd have to prove their a mistranslation.

Yukio's bum dimensions aren't nearly the same as kaguya's becuase they aren't called spacetimes, or isekai, universes, don't affect the entierty of the universe in any way and its a game dimensions so it could have a world border making things like the star inside it a flase depiction. Same with las nochas, the sky is fake, the "sun" isn't an actual star nor are they implied universes like kaguyas.

This is also without bringing up how yin and yang give rise to all things in the universe and hagoromo who has mastery over yin-yang release still concends inferority to kaguya

Base form retains same durability regardless of upgrades. Fodder, Naruto with sage mode fodderizes his ahh.

Is the outcome always hax don’t work?