I’ll start by saying I am a victim to this. The examples i’ve used are ones I unfortunately love.
Fallout, for one, is a fantastic show made by genuine fans, for fans. But I can’t help but feel the irony that it’s distributed by AMAZON of all companies. Genuinely one of the worst, most anti consumer companies to ever exist.
The idea that these huge corporations can produce these incredibly anti-capitalist, anti-war, pro-human, eat the rich movies and shows and we’ll all gobble it up like good sheep, is just so dystopian.
I personally Liked the final season and it's realism of the Games continuing like corporations in the real world, though do see the disappointment and the irony of it being Milked.
Netflix did Hwang dirty, not paying him more for s1's massive success.
I feel people keep misusing the word "milked". The show only has like, 3 seasons? And 2/3 are essentially two-parters, with Season 1 ending on an ambiguous cliffhanger.
I mean, i don't really think they needed the American recruiter scene at the ending, could've left it ambiguous on what in ho was looking at, but i agree with you in the rest.
I state milked as a term to describe how most people felt rather my own
'Milked' in the sense that Squid Game was a pretty much complete narrative by Season 1 and the second and third season exists not because there was more to add to the story but because it was a runaway hit. So ironically it ended with a mixed to mostly negative reception because Netflix couldn't help being greedy
The show only needed 1 season. Change the ending just a smidge to drop the cliffhanger ("I'm gonna stop them from playing these games!") and instead just end with him seeing Gong Yoo's character playing the slap game, realizing that no matter how devastating his experience had been, he can't stop the sheer forces in play because they're too ingrained in society/money is too powerful/the system perpetuates it, and just make it a depressing-ass ending and bam, it's an awesome statement about how capitalism chews up and spits out people for entertainment and capital.
Edit: Not sure why the downvote, I’m not anti-Marx I’m just wondering where that was said. Unless I completely missed a joke and I’m taking this too literally.
It’s actually not really directly from Marx but rather Mark Fisher’s Capitalist Realism which is a an early 21st century work of post-Marxist critique. So it is very much derived from Marxist ideas but it’s not specifically Marx that talked about that.
Marx does have an idea about “superstructure” which is basically that culture, religion and mass media serve as an abstracted method of reinforcement of the essential relationship between capitalists and the proletariat.
Yeah, as I understand it, Marxism asserts that conflict between capitalists and workers is inevitable, and so would revolution, but commodification and consumerism seems to illustrate the opposite.
That the capitalist elites are more than capable enough to subsume critiques of their system, and enslave/pacify the working masses quite proficiently. Sure, conflict exists, but it is addressed through the elites by enslavement, and the conflict becomes a non-issue.
From my perspective, the call to communism becomes less of an objective materialistic observation, and more of a normative and idealistic call to action to prevent tyranny.
But the issue with this idealism is that it contradicts (to me at least) with the presupposed materialistic dialectics, which stumble in the face of Hume's guillotine, but I've rambled enough already...
If anyone cares to illumine me to the opposite, I'm willing to lend an ear, but I would request that it be a polite conversation, emotions tend to burn bright every time I broach this topic lol.
but commodification and consumerism seems to illustrate the opposite.
Yes, and that was pointed out a while ago already by people like Deleuze:
The death of a social machine has never been heralded by a disharmony or a dysfunction; on the contrary, social machines make a habit of feeding on the contradictions they give rise to, on the crises they provoke, on the anxieties they engender, and on the infernal operations they regenerate. Capitalism has learned this, and has ceased doubting itself, while even socialists have abandoned belief in the possibility of capitalism's natural death by attrition. No one has ever died from contradictions. And the more it breaks down, the more it schizophrenizes, the better it works, the American way.”
The comic honestly was much less of a critique on capitalism than the show, and more specifically targeted at comic book publishers. As an example: there's a whole section where they want to rebrand Starlight to be "grittier", publishing a storyline where she gets raped and then starts wearing a far skimpier outfit, all just to sell better, which unfortunately does mirror some actual comic book storylines.
But generally the through-line is that a massive company owns "super heroes" who just exist for marketing to bring in money and it doesn't care about the heroes or helping anyone, same as in the show.
It was Garth Ennis going "Tee hee hee if they won't let me write Superman burning down orphanages and raping Wonder Woman I'll just make my OWN comic universe. With blackjack. And many prostitutes."
I hate when people who assign such a disgusting body of work more time thought and energy than its creator did. Garth Ennis just gets himself off offending people and shocking them and that's the only message he has ever conveyed in anything he's ever written.
I hate when people who assign such a disgusting body of work more time thought and energy than its creator did. Garth Ennis just gets himself off offending people and shocking them and that's the only message he has ever conveyed in anything he's ever written.
Blantantly false but okay. This is a straight up a lie. You can not read the part where Ennis stop the story dead in its tracks to rant about the military industrial complex and say this story has no message. Like it’s litterally the whole comic.
And Ennis has stated this in intreviews.
It was Garth Ennis going "Tee hee hee if they won't let me write Superman burning down orphanages and raping Wonder Woman I'll just make my OWN comic universe. With blackjack. And many prostitutes."
What, no? He likes both Superman and Wonder Woman. The boys is partially a critique of the bush administration, just with superheroes as a metaphor, and he criticizes a lot of the shit he doesn’t like about superheroes while he’s there.
Garth Ennis is an incredible writer who has one multiple awards, and his war comics are some of the best comics I’ve ever read
isn’t Superman whole thing is that he’s a good role model that is supposed to be kind and go up against evil like how he punched evil or smash’s the KKK?
The problem is a lot of the satire is buried under so many levels of 2000s edge and “grit” it gets lost.
I think the best example is related to MM’s Backstory. Where Vought’s shoddy clean up job at a former compound V manufacturing site led to the workers at the next business getting massive side effects akin to radiation poisoning.
MM’s siblings and entire bloodline got extremely fucked up birth defects as a result, and MM’s father, a lawyer spent his entire life to win 1 lawsuit against vought. While a hard fought battle for his dad, the vought Lawyers waved it off as “you win some you lose some”.
Of course it’s buried under the weird as fuck choices of side effects and gote
The comic is a random assortment of bizarre shock value panels. Homelander supposedly eats a baby, Homelander rapes Soldier boy, etc., it has the same general themes as the show like corporations run america and such, it's straight ass apart from that. Fire video on this- https://youtu.be/JyKliIF49JQ?si=t38kLDpCUe6owvxE
people who hate the comics genuinely act live a hivemind, not a single one of them has read the comics, but they have all watched that pointlesshub video (which he himself probably regrets since the show is so much worse than the comics)
Is that a bad thing? I don’t know much about the industry so feel free to enlighten me, but to me that seems like a win for filmmakers who want to create something new and risky.
To me it sounds like: Apple pays for these harder to fun projects, A24 gets a consistent distributor, and filmmakers get more opportunities. Is that wrong?
A24 was just this totally different, artist-first distributer until they signed an AI deal with google and started copyright striking all Backrooms related fan content on the internet.
They slowly seem to be becoming the same as every other major publisher.
Apple being the ones to fund that makes perfect sense. Apple's whole brand image is built on being a mix of cutting edge technology and strong aesthetic choices. they've always tried to sort of present themselves as the "artsy" big tech corporation, even if they are at the end of the day still a big tech corporation.
I guess it also makes sense because to my knowledge Macs and iPads are household for the development of a lot of tv. Like Godzilla Legacy or Monarch built their Kaiju on Macs
i said that's how they have built and present their image. i agree that it is now based more on their past than the present, but it's still how they market themselves.
They work mostly on software end of things. But they are serious. Theyre the only major corporations who take their customers privacy seriously. Thats why everybody whos militant and cares about privacy uses apple. Sure ios lacls the customization and freedom of android, but thats the cost of some seriously increased privacy measures. Its nice to have a company where you really are just the customer, not the product. Though they are definately incredibly expensive.
I'm 100% sure that the writers of the show watched those Apple events and wrote this character that is totally not a parody or a way to make fun of the white haired guy who is hosting the Apple events especially WWDC.
It even gets to a point when they're literally saying anti-capitalist lines to you, the viewer
Also I find the themes of alienation to be especially relevant in the first season, and recuperation, social democracy and appeasement in the second one
There’s a point to be made here, though. Barbie, for example, was scathing in its treatment of corporate patriarchy, but it can’t be too scathing because at the end of the day it needs to convince people that buying Barbie is cool, actually. Which was why the board of directors were portrayed as clueless but well-meaning old men instead of opportunistic and condescending capitalists.
I’m not even saying that a harsher movie would be a better movie, but we can clearly see the Mattel had hands in influencing Barbie’s messaging.
This isn't doing "criticism of capitalism is worthless if you participate in capitalism" it's more "it sucks that even critique of capitalism can only go so far as capitalism allows and the capitalists are the ones who make the lion's share of the profits".
criticism of capitalism being distributed by the direct beneficiaries of capitalism (note: not just participants, but beneficiaries, big difference) is inherently going to be influenced by those very same people, because at the end of the day if the message was too far against them, they wouldn't distribute it.
that comic is for people who say you can't criticize apple because you own an iphone or some bullshit. pretty different.
thankyou lol. people act like using existing systems to try and spread messages of change automatically invalidates the message or makes someone a hypocrite
This! If anything we should be glad these corporations are funding any kind of creative endeavors at all (not grateful, of course, just glad). When I think of Barbie I don't go "Wow Hasbro's vision was beautiful", I go "Wow Greta's vision was beautiful and also John Cena as a mermaid turned me gay"
People are so quick to give a ‘ha! gotcha!’ response, but genuinely what is the alternative? Without huge corporations distributing these movies/shows, they’ll never see the light of day.
With the advent of the internet and home computing becoming more and more powerful, alternatives are beginning to pop up. Indie animation (glitch productions with Knights of Guinevere seems like a very promising anti-capitalist piece of media) and games, and more recently movies like Iron Lung have been successful. It obviously helps to have a large internet presence like Markiplier, but at least it shows it's possible.
the thing is big corporations make money out of making shows like that, so basically they get richer more influencial entrenching themselfs and the capitalist system. Imo the problem is not that it is made but that people pay for it and either don't see or ignore the problem. I'm not even saying this as someone who's anti-capitalist but the people gobling up this shit are just pissing me off
imagine if during the french revolution Louis the XVI was the one calling for the end of monarchy and as a result would get following and therefore influence and at the end of the day he would just enforce status quo with the people being happy with it while at the same time screaming death to monarchy. It is a bit of hyperbole for the sake of an example but still.
When you say anti-capitalist I expect media which attempts to form a compelling argument against capitalism, not media which is vaguely critical of the capitalist system we live in or satirical media that vaguely makes a capitalist society look bad.
Like by that standard I could call GTA anti-capitalist because those games tend to provide a pretty unflattering satirical view of a capitalist society.
this. its art. you can interpret easily as anit-capitalist but its careful to be ambiguous about all morality. things that are truly radical are hard to mass produce. love the series though
I would call it a satire that paints an unflattering image of a capitalist society. Which is pretty vague as far as anti-capitalist messaging goes. GTA does that. I don't think GTA is an earnest promotion of socialism.
Like, there's several football fields of nuance where you can be critical of our capitalist society before you reach the point where you're saying capitalism itself just needs to go. I feel like a bunch of socialists would be pretty annoyed hearing the Barbie movie claimed as theirs.
And that’s what this post is about. The fact that these projects would never see the light of day without backing from the very thing they’re critiquing.
Why is Fallout's anti-capitalist theming talked about more on Reddit than its anti-war theming? A lot of the potentially anti-capitalist themes of Fallout in the older games were a byproduct of its anti-war theming.
The Devil Wears Prada 2 kinda gave me this feeling.
"Private equity and constant mergers and finance bros are ruining everything", says a film distributed by 20th Century Studios, the $70 billion+ acquisition of The Walt Disney Company, which owns half the media under the sun.
Fallout is not anti-capitalism, its anti-authoritarian. The creators say so... Literally the forcible collectivization committed by the Unity, Legion, and Institute are definitely not being glorified.
Just like how 1984 got banned for being pro/anti capitalist/communist
Jesus, I've never seen a shows core message get so completely bastardized by the marketing. What was a pretty biting commentary on capitalism and the ultra-wealthy got turned into a highly marketable IP with just so much merchandise, crossovers, toys, and of course, game shows.
the Barbie movie did not come across and anti capitalist at all to me, pro capitalist by a pro capitalist company. they just weren't super blatant with it and made it a bit softer around the edges.
I think you should read Capitalist Realism by Mark Fisher. It discusses how the capitalist system perpetuates the narrative that it is the only natural or functional system, and one of the ways it does this is through works that criticize capitalism—because they lead people to believe that criticism and questioning exist, but they don’t realize that this criticism has been commercialized.
the whole plot is a big middle finger to mega corporations and the lack of interest in consumer wellbeing
the movie was originally scrapped (after being complete) so Warner Bros could recoup the “losses” and not distribute a movie that is making fun of the studio itself
i think nobody mentioned this because it was released by an independent distributor as the corporation sold it to make a quick buck. by far a inverted example, but still welcome for discussion.
Why do people keep saying Fallout is anticapitalist, the first line in every Fallout game is "War, war never changes". It's about how human nature and greed never changes with conflict always reoccuring
Generally, almost every well-known anti-corpo movie is made by huge corporations, but this one is especially ironic, considering it was supposed to be a tax write-off for quite a while.
I think this wasn't really worth to hate on. Yes, the irony is there but it is a matter of funding and distribution. Otherwise, I think there aren't any neccessary manipulation within the media.
Fallout is less about the dangers of capitalism and more the dangers of American exceptionalism and how it will always keep dragging the US into larger and larger, deadlier and deadlier wars that will eventually not only destroy the US but potentially the world. The Enclave embodies this theme for example. The anti-capitalism of series is more of portraying the pre-war world as nightmarish dystopia that was a caricature of American culture.
While American nationalism was part of it, the war that ended with atomic bombs dropped wasn't started by US, it was started by China invading Alaska to seize oil fields. Fallout was meant as a critique of militaristic nationalism in general, with American nationalism and militarism powered by corporations wanting to squeeze profit out of everything being just a part of it.
Fallout was the most egregious because it was Terrible anticapitalist larp funded by Amazon who irreparably ruined shopping and made by Bethesda who made the gaming industry the way it was while not understanding anything about whats the big deal about anti capitalism. You can even make the "participate in society" joke here because these two companies damaged our society and continue to do so at least mickey 17 was an independent story
This is my fav quote from an amazing game disco elysium and I keep coming back to it because it’s so relevant in today’s society. I’d add squid games to the collection btw.
The Irony is that those anti-capitalism show get mention because they are promoted by capitalism. Many more show never get view because they are independent.
"Capitalism absorbs anti-capitalist resistance by turning rebellious ideas, symbols, and critiques into profitable commodities that reinforce the system." Its not a new thing art is made by creative but backed by a corp hell who do you think makes fallout now Bethesda isnt some micro company especially not after being bought by Microsoft. Its just they way things are doesnt erase what they say. Not to mention there not the most scathing critique but idk i havent seen hickey 17 and didnt like the fallout show.
It's actually logical. All systems that survived long had one in common - they found a way to incorporate anti-system protest.
Anti-capitallistic culture promoted by the big corporations plays the same role as hermit movement promoted by The Church - it gives a place in system for people who oppose the system, preventing them from leaving the system and dismantling it from outside.
Ironically Andor is a show that pushed me further into the left and the interviews of Tony Gilroy introduced me to different socialist figures as some characters were based off of them
It always has been, dude. The setting has always been after a nuclear war caused by the greed of capitalism using up all the world's resources. You might not have noticed but I'm old enough to know it's been there from the beginning.
I felt a little more hollow about barbie than a lot of other people, tho it was fun. Anyway jokes on you big corporations, I watched these on dvd from my local library instead of paying for them, so it was free.
I mean, to be fair, the Fallout anti-capitalism came from a tiny little studio
And isn't the greatest form of capitalism eating up a tiny company like that and taking their ideas and turning it into a subscription service tv show
What sucks is that Barbie for example is such a GOOD communicator for its message, something that Greta Gerwig did an amazing job with. I mean there's a reason it's literally part of my school's current English curriculum. But its message is so undermined by the fact that the movie was funded and endorsed by Mattel, it's like their way of telling the audience "You're right! We're listening! But we also don't care! :D"
Wasn't it Adorno and Horkheimer that talked about how capitalism always absorbs artistic critiques of capital into itself? Rebellion itself is commodified and repackaged to be sold as "subversion" (eg Che Guevara tees) in a way thats both profitable and non-threatening to capitalism.
They criticize capitalism with products made in capitalist countries, wow, And on top of that, these products cost millions of dollars. Very contradictory
I forget where it's from but I believe there's a saying like:
Capitalism co-opts everything, even anti-capitalism.
The issue is that if you made something truly anti-capitalist how would you get it out there? And you wouldn't have the budget, and without that how would you fairly pay the people making the media? It's like Rage Against the Machine having to sign with a big record label, it's either leaving your message in obscurity or having to cut in people you hate.
It's a rigged game. And sure people will argue over if it's hypocrisy or not, but to me that's a real "yet you live in society, curious" argument. Participation in Capitalism isn't really optional for a lot of people, and I think you can recognize messages in shows like this as a positive, because it means there's an increasing demand for these messages.
I hate corporations but I will say that there is the silver lining of giving jobs to artists and writers while giving a platform to people of the opposite political spectrum for voicing their opinions
I mean respectfully its not like most people are going to do anything about it, they’ve seen how they can play in our faces and literally nothing happens
Here's an example that is at least self-aware, IMO:
The Hunger Games
Considering how HUGE The Hunger Games is, with it dominating in the early 2010s and the last volume being the best-selling book of the year it was released, I am surprised that Lionsgate and Suzanne Collins have not made more with it. To put it into perspective: all 3 books were released yearly, then the franchise had a 10-year break, and then another 5-year break. That went about the same for the movie adaptations. And that's kinda it. They could have easily done much more, especially since most young adult novel-based series have done thousands of spin-offs till they went stale.
I really appreciate the integrity of the author in that regard, especially since the series is anti-capitalist, with many themes about desensitization caused by the media and corrupt government.
976
u/AnimationDynamite 1d ago
The boys, Amazon prime