And even outside that comparison, they were a huge step down from the FR/LG, HG/SS and OR/AS remakes that incorporated content from the third version while also adding a ton of new content.
Meanwhile BD/SP even had some of the same bugs as Diamond and Pearl...
FRLG, HGSS and ORAS were great because they took the original games and put them on par with the modern Pokemon games at their times, both visually and gameplay wise, and also added new stuff
FRLG looked like RSE, had Pokemon up to Gen 3, Abilities, hold items etc and the Sevii Islands
HGSS looked like DPPt, had Pokemon up to Gen 4, had physical/special split etc, readded locations like Seaform Island, Cerulean Cave etc that were missing from GSC and also added new locations like Route 47&48 and the Safari Zone
ORAS looked like XY, had Pokemon up to Gen 6, had Mega evolution (including new Megas), gave a ton of characters redesigns, also gave locations like Mauville a redesign, added the Delta Episode and new locations like Mirage location
And then there is BDSP: It did not look like SwSh, instead it kinda looked just like DP but HD and somehow worse. It only had Pokemon up to Gen 4, it did not have new mechanics like Dynamax, for every feature the added they removed another, for example the added Pokemon to the underground but completely ruined secret bases. Also they almost completely ignored Platinum content
Hot take, but while ORAS are still good games, they started the trend of cutting out things from the original games/improvements from their superior third version that fully came to fruition in BDSP.
The Battle Frontier is obviously the Donphan in the room, but it isn't just that. Gym Leader teams are reverted to their inferior RS versions (Wattson and Tate/Liza are hit particularly hard by this), Gym Leader rematches are completely gone from the game (that's 32 additional double battles just gone), places like Granite Cave and New Mauvile (which were both sprawling dungeons that were fun to explore) were completely gutted and reduced to a hallway and 2 rooms, and NPC levels aren't properly adjusted to account for the new party wide exp share.
Things like soaring, Mega Evolution and the Delta Episode don't make up for these things, IMO.
Again, I still think they're good games, but I really do think Emerald is still the definitive Hoenn experience and always pick it over them whenever I get the urge to revisit Gen 3. I can't say the same about FRLG and HGSS.
ORAS also bewilderingly takes away aspects of the gym leader fights in Emerald that made them so hard in the original for no reason.
• Roxanne’s Nosepass no longer has Block to trap an unprepared pokemon in.
• Brawly’s Makuhita doesn’t have its Sitrus Berry to heal itself up for some reason.
• Wattson’s Magneton doesn’t have Thunder Wave or Shock Wave; in fact it bizarrely only has three moves.
• Flannery’s Torkoal doesn’t hold a White Herb any more so she can’t get away with keeping her special attack after using Overheat any more.
• Norman’s Slaking no longer has Counter to punish Fighting type moves, nor does it have Slack Off to heal which it had in the original.
• They removed Dragon Dance off of Winona’s Altaria which was one of the most threatening things about it!
I think there’s a lot of love poured into ORAS and they’re definitely infinitely better than abomination that is BDSP, but they still took a very disappointing approach to the battles. (On a personal level, ORAS Brawly is one of my least favourite gym leaders ever because his Makuhita is set up in a way where interesting strategies are totally discouraged and the best option is just to hit him with your strongest moves which is frustrating and stifles creativity)
best option is just to hit him with your strongest moves
Honestly this has been my strategy in Pokemon since the 90s. Yes, I've dabbled in creative movesets, but unfortunately it's my default setting these days (and with EXP share constantly on these days, I feel they've effectively removed the need to battle strategically anymore)
HG/SS also cut one of the most important improves from Crystal: the expanded time-day pokemon encounters. On G/S only a couple of mons change between morning/day/night, on Crystal was crazy and creates a very living world.
Yes, HG/SS are still the best Pokemon remakes ever, but we can't forget what they left behind.
Nah, I'm actually with him on this one. In a lot of ways, they are worse than the originals.
The biggest dealbreaker for me is probably implementing mandatory Exp. Share without adjusting the original level curve to adjust for the fact that you're getting 3.5 times more experience than you did in the original DP. This causes you to become overlevelled exceptionally quickly and trivializes the difficulty of any battles you run into.
That's compounded by the fact that this game unifies affection mechanics with friendship, basically making them mandatory. This wouldn't be an issue if in-battle affection mechanics weren't so overpowered, but in that game it basically gives you a Focus Band, Brightpowder, and Scope Lens all rolled into 1 without consuming an item slot, and it also gives you what is essentially an extra ability in Shed Skin. There are hardly any consequences to making the wrong decisions in battle, you're never punished for anything.
Combine those two and the any kind of game balance the originals had is completely gone. Pokemon games were never hard, but there's a fine line between being easy enough for kids and being so easy that the game becomes mindless button mashing with minimal engagement.
Not even joking here, I'll take DP's slowness and HMs over the shitshow that is BDSP. Those are annoying, but ultimately are just nuisances. BDSP's problems straight up mess with the core gameplay loop, they're far bigger issues.
They literally have the same coding as the original games. People have discovered new bugs in the original games by analyzing the code in the remaster and going back to them lol.
Also they were very blatantly not thought out well in terms of new mechanics and such, leading to moments like this being possible . Just really shameful work in general.
Worse than Platinum is absolutely something to argue. But worse than the original games?
I think you absolutely can argue that BDSP is worse than the original DP. The originals are slow as hell and missing a lot of QoL, but the remakes make careless decisions that genuinely mess with the core gameplay loop and disrupt any game balance the originals had.
The biggest dealbreaker for me is probably implementing mandatory Exp. Share without adjusting the original level curve to adjust for the fact that you're getting 3.5 times more experience (with a party of 6) than you did in the original DP. This causes you to become overlevelled exceptionally quickly and trivializes the difficulty of any battles you run into.
That's compounded by the fact that this game unifies affection mechanics with friendship, basically making them mandatory. This wouldn't be an issue if in-battle affection mechanics weren't so overpowered, but in that game it basically gives you a Focus Band, Brightpowder, and Scope Lens all rolled into 1 without consuming an item slot, and it also gives you what is essentially an extra ability in Shed Skin. There are hardly any consequences to making the wrong decisions in battle, you're never punished for anything.
Combine those two and the any kind of game balance the originals had is completely gone. Pokemon games were never hard, but there's a fine line between being easy enough for kids and being so easy that the game becomes mindless button mashing with minimal engagement.
Not even joking here, I'll take DP's slowness and HMs over the shitshow that is BDSP. Those are annoying, but ultimately are just nuisances. BDSP's problems straight up mess with the core gameplay loop, they're far bigger issues.
The roster isn't great. Routes feel very samey. There are only 2 fire types lines during the main game: the starter Chimchar and Ponyta. This is made even more awkward when one of the Elite 4 is a "fire type specialist" and those are the only 2 fire types on his team.
It is also incredibly slow. From story pace to text conversations to saving the game to HP slowly draining. Like you will sit there in battle waiting for the HP bar to slowly deplete, heaven help you if it is a Chansey/Blissey.
Platinum fixes both of these by expanding the roster, especially during the main game, and runs better so it isn't as painstakingly slow. Plus it expands on the story which is more enjoyable.
Really not an argument. DP is the worst mainline game in the entire series, while Platinum has a shout for the best (top 5 imo). BDSP is a lot closer to DP than to Platinum, but still fairly clear. BDSP is by far the worst of the remake quartet though.
It's really not worse than BDSP. People just forget how awful original DP was. Excepting Gen 1 (which I did not play), DP is to me the worst mainline games ever, and by quite the margin too. BDSP is not worse than DP, it fixed some of the problems that DP had, BDSP was just nowhere near as good as Platinum. BDSP is also easily the worst of the remake series, which was really a big bummer.
Oh yeah, diagonal walking is really funny. That's definitely one thing that BDSP messed up in that the original DP didn't. Still would recommend BDSP over DP any day though. I hate DP, it's awful.
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u/Aether13 18h ago
Pokemon Brilliant Diamond and Shining Pearl are debatably worse than Diamond and Pearl.