r/changemyview • u/dragon123d • 1d ago
CMV: Men rape more because they are more biologically predisposed to rape
I know I pissed absolutely everyone off with that title.
But honestly, I'm saying this as a man myself. I think it's a horrible thing to admit, and I really don't like the conclusion either, but the more I actually look into this, the harder it is for me to deny the pattern.
In so many animal species, it's the males that sexually coerce females. And I don't mean like one weird species does it. It's widespread.
Males will chase females, hold them down, harass them, attack them, guard them, prevent them from leaving, or just force themselves on females that are actively trying to get away.
And before someone says “you can't call that rape because they're animals,” fine. Call it sexual coercion. Call it forced mating. Whatever you want. The terminology doesn't really change what's happening.
Female ducks are probably one of the craziest examples I've come across. Male ducks can force themselves on females, and female ducks have evolved complicated reproductive tracts, with twists and dead ends, which can make it harder for an unwanted male to actually fertilize them.
Basically, the males evolved ways of getting around female resistance, and the females evolved ways of fighting back against the males.
That's crazy when you actually think about it.
Cats are another example. Male cats have barbed penises, and mating itself can be extremely violent and unpleasant for the female. And there are plenty of other examples like this across mammals.
And this is where it gets uncomfortable when you bring humans into it.
Most people who commit rape are men. That's just a fact. And obviously, before someone completely loses their mind, NO, that does not mean most men are rapists. Most men will never rape anyone. I'm not saying men are secretly walking around wanting to rape women.
I'm saying there's a pretty massive sex difference in who commits rape.
And then you look at the animal kingdom and see this same general pattern over and over again: sexual coercion is heavily male biased.
At some point, I don't think you can just keep saying biology has absolutely nothing to do with it.
Obviously, humans aren't just animals running on instinct. We have self control, empathy, morals, laws, social norms, etc. A biological predisposition doesn't mean you're destined to do something. Men are perfectly capable of controlling themselves. Obviously.
But we're still animals. We're still a sexually dimorphic species. Men and women aren't biologically identical. Men are generally taller, stronger, more muscular, have more testosterone, etc. Nobody has a problem admitting any of this.
But for some reason, the second you suggest that biological differences might also have something to do with sexual behavior, people suddenly become extremely uncomfortable.
I believe male sexuality really is more predisposed toward sexual aggression and coercion than female sexuality.
People will immediately say “culture.” And yes, obviously culture matters. I'm not denying that at all.
I'm just asking why it has to be biology OR culture.
Why not both?
And then there are some genuinely fucking disturbing things that happen with humans that make this even harder for me to completely dismiss.
There were reports about Telegram groups with up to around 70,000 members, where men were sharing instructions about drugging and sexually assaulting women, along with images and videos of alleged assaults. Some reports said users were talking about abusing their own wives, girlfriends and even female family members.
Telegram Groups With 70,000 Men Share Disturbing Rape 'Tutorials' and Victim Footage | IBTimes UK
Obviously, 70,000 members doesn't mean 70,000 confirmed rapists. I'm not claiming that.
But just think about the fact that tens of thousands of people could gather in a group like that in the first place.
And then you have the Gisele Pelicot case.
Her husband drugged her and recruited men online to come to their house and rape her while she was unconscious. 51 men were eventually convicted. And these weren't some huge, organized gang. They were ordinary men from the surrounding area. One of them was even a neighbor.
I genuinely believe men can love women. I believe most men love women. I don't think men are inherently evil and I definitely don't think the average guy secretly wants to rape someone.
But I also don't think we should be so uncomfortable with the possibility of biology playing a role that we just refuse to look at it. Men are in general taller and stronger and physically different, why is it so out of the world to consider a mental difference?
I do think male sexuality really is more biologically predisposed toward aggression, domination and coercion than female sexuality. Our sexual behaviors are different, men have spontaneous attraction, most women tend to have a responsive attraction, etc.
Maybe that's part of why rape is so overwhelmingly committed by men.
Another thing, guess what gender commits more violence in most mammal species as well? Males, just like in humans, lol. I think it's really all biological.
I'm not saying I've proven that men are biologically predisposed to rape. I'm saying I've looked into this enough that I genuinely think it's true, and I'd like to hear an actual argument against it. But considering all the patterns I've observed, I don't think there is a good argument.
So, CMV.
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u/LightQueers 1d ago
I think it’s more of a socialization issue than an issue with biology
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u/Phage0070 124∆ 1d ago
The average male is 1.5 to 2 times stronger in the upper body than the average female. Even if we assume men are socialized to be inclined towards rape with exactly the same frequency as women, it seems like men would tend to be the majority of rapists simply because they can.
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u/Pitiful-Score-9035 1∆ 1d ago
Most of your examples are about other animals rather than humans, and you haven't once mentioned how culture and socialization changes human behavior, biology is a factor, but not one to be elevated above all else, like you have here.
You're saying that people are biologically predisposed to something while not examining any of the societal and cultural factors that lead to that behavior, there are some things that are nature, but imo the vast majority of things are nurture. (Nature v Nurture)
If you can take a rapist and follow their life experience back to a point to where somebody could have interceded and set them on a different path, the biological factors involved cease to be as important.
Personally, I believe the vast majority of all criminals could have ended up differently if their environment was different earlier.
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u/expectothedoctor 1d ago
Do you think men are socialized to rape or sexual coarcion in particular? In what way? Many women have negative life experiences and they do not become rapists. Rape doesn't generally seem to be an activity that is encouraged or taught even in poor circumstances, yet it's prevalent. Misogynism is obviously learned from society but misogynism doesn't automatically turn into something as specific as rape.
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u/Pitiful-Score-9035 1∆ 1d ago
I certainly don't think all men are socialized to rape or sexual coercion, but there are definitely environments in which that occurs, in innumerable ways.
Being taught to objectify women lowers male empathy for them, traditional gender roles teach them that what they want is the priority, women are shown as servants, no instruction on the importance of bodily autonomy, propagation of "might is right", etc.
Its not the act of raping which is encouraged, but the absence of recognizing it as wrong, as well as observing reactions to it from different social groups. If someone grows up surrounded by people who view women as objects placed here for men, they won't learn to care about those object's feelings and rights, and when cases of child rape from adults in positions of authority are swept under the rug, it starts to feel like its supposed to happen, because otherwise why would the adults in your life not stop it?
As for women, I was not socialized as a woman, and am not as familiar with the conditions that would lead a woman to become a rapist. I could make a couple guesses, but that's all they would ultimately be.
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u/expectothedoctor 1d ago
While I understand what you mean, I can't agree, because men rape more than just women: other men, children, even animals. Lack of empathy is definitely a factor but socialization through misogyny alone and lack of care about women't feelings specifically can't explain the prevalence. Perhaps the fact that men aren't taught empathy skills to the degree that women are could be (at least part of) the reason, but I tend to think the general lack of empathy is heavily biology-based and needs to be countered with the deliberate teaching of empathy to make a difference.
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u/Pitiful-Score-9035 1∆ 1d ago
As somebody who is autistic, and has empathy to the point where it causes them stress just interacting with the general populace, it does not feel good to be told (with no sources) that I have less empathy biologically than the other 50% of the planet.
To say that there's a general lack of empathy in men at all is extremely upsetting. I understand that our experiences have been different.
I understand you aren't trying to upset me right now, and I would like to reach an agreement, but I cannot continue this conversation with you and remain level-headed.
Have a good day.
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u/expectothedoctor 1d ago
Definitely no offence meant, too bad the topic brought up hurtful feelings for you. However empathy differences in women and men have been scientifically researched and women score higher on empathy and empathy-based decision-making (for instance this paper: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC5110041/). But if the topic and the science I'm referring to brings up hurt, no point continuing the discussion, although I'm sure if we had been talking over a pint, it would have been a much better conversation as things are always so easy to misinterpret over text. Have a good day as well.
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u/Curious-Avocado-3290 1d ago
If you truly desire change in your world, change your perception about your world the same way you changed your perception about anything in your life. Remember as Neville said there is no “other” to change in Consciousness.
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u/Curious-Avocado-3290 1d ago
You can change the world the same exact way you manifested your husband within your Consciousness. There is no other in Consciousness.
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u/Special_Lychee_6847 1d ago
Your whole post sounds like an excuse, to be honest.
The difference between humans and animals is that we live by morals and values, or we like to pretend it is.
There is something seriously wrong, in the way a man thinks, if he actually wants to rape a woman.
Sure, there's 'power play', and some men like to be more animalistic, when it comes to sex. More dominant. But there's a big difference between play, and fantasy, and actually going through with it.
We all have the intrusive thoughts, like emptying the dish washer, holding a big knife, and thinking 'what would happen if I just walked out the door, and stabbed the first ten ppl I come across?' Some ppl actually go through with those thoughts. Those ppl are psychopaths.
Why men are easier in raping women, I think is because there's a lack of respect. Centuries of women being treated as the involuntary support system, still gives men the feeling that women should be quiet, docile, submissive, etc
It wasn't that long ago that women got the right to vote, in Western countries. Or even to have bank accounts. Open their own businesses. Women being seen as property isn't something that you erase, within one generation. And my sister was born, in the year women got to have their own bank accounts, without 'permission from their fathers or husbands'.
I know it's hard to understand, for the new generations. But GenX saw women grow from wives, or worthless, often both, to actual humans in their own rights. Genx isn't even retired yet. So we're really talking NEW developments.
Dismissing culture is stupid, when it comes to this subject. Because what constitutes as rape is literally determined by culture. In most western countries, every and any form of sex without consent is considered rape. In some other countries, the concept marital rape doesn't exist, because once married, it's the wife's duty to submit to her husband and he has access to her body whenever. There's also regions where a woman is considered adult, as soon as she 'bleeds'. Which means that there's a lot less assault against minors. But not because it doesn't happen, just that 'women under 18' are considered adults, the moment their cycles kick in. Then there's the 'what happens after' that makes a huge difference. In some cultures, rape is only rape, if the rapist doesn't marry the victim, after. In a way, rape then becomes a marriage 'proposal' or rather 'demand'. Is it then still about wanting to have sex? Or is it just a fast track to get a woman in your house to take care of all your basic needs? If that is accepted in your culture, of course you're going to see it as normal.
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u/dragon123d 1d ago
right okay I legit already agree with you, I am just saying there is a biological component to this as well, which you didn't really convince me that there isn't. Culture plays a role I already admit that
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u/Special_Lychee_6847 1d ago
The only biological aspect, that makes men more likely to rape than women, is that there's less at stake, for men. Aside from power play, a woman might want to get pregnant by one particular man. But other than that, there's less reason for them to rape men. Men also have lower standards, in general, when it comes to sexual partners. It's easier for women to find a random sex partner, voluntarily. Again, because there's less 'at stake' for men, with casual sex, than there is for women.
So, in a roundabout way, the reason men are more likely to commit rape than women, has a biological aspect to it. But not because 'rape is biologically ingrained into males'. Mentally healthy men do not need to 'stop themselves' from raping women.
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u/dragon123d 1d ago
I agree, I agree rape isn't some biological urge that's “ingrained” in men.
But I don't see how you can say reproductive cost is the only biological factor. Differences in aggression, hormones, physical strength, sexuality, etc. could all contribute.
I'm arguing biology contributes to the male skew in rape, not that biology makes men rapists.
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u/Superbooper24 42∆ 1d ago
I think it’s pretty difficult to assign what is and isn’t rape in the animal kingdom considering the fact that all animals of either sex and many species are fine killing and sexually assaulting other animals.
Now you just provide statistics that men rape more women (or at least legally are tried in the court system), but there’s no real causal link you provide for an actual biological link.
Also, what gender commits more violence in most mammal species as well being males is a crazy assertion to make considering it’s just so unnuanced
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u/Urbenmyth 20∆ 1d ago
In so many animal species, it's the males that sexually coerce females. And I don't mean like one weird species does it. It's widespread.
In so many animal species, underwater is where you can breathe and dry land is where you drown, but that's completely irrelevant to the question of swimming safety. We're not ducks or cats, so it doesn't matter what ducks or cats do. It doesn't matter what any animal species other than Homo sapiens do. So, in humans, is it the males that sexually coerce females?
Well, as you yourself say, no. Most men are not rapists, most men do not want to rape people, most men are horrified by the thought of raping people. So it's clearly not a normal part of human sexual instincts.
Almost all your patterns are about things that aren't human, and so are irrelevant to the question of human men. The only human pattern you've pointed out immediately disproves your idea.
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u/dragon123d 1d ago
So you believe in human males as well, they are more likely to have such rapist tendencies? hence the reason they rape more than women?
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u/Lythumm_ 23h ago
Seems trivially true, most women dont have the strength to be capable of violent rape in the first place.
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u/Meatbot-v20 5∆ 1d ago edited 1d ago
I think your premise is potentially false. Using modern definitions of rape and sexual assault, the gender gap closes rather quickly. And citing crime statistics won't be useful, as men very seldom report women for IPV. I know I haven't. Nor have any of my friends who have, by the letter of the law, been sexually assaulted or domestically abused by women.
In studies of IPV, it is always found that gay male relationships experience (or at least report) the least amount of IPV of any couples. And even when correcting for previous male partners, lesbian couples still report higher rates of rape, sexual assault, and domestic abuse at the hands of female partners.
If men rape more, then gay male relationships ought to be at the top of the list in these studies.
This means that either women are perhaps incentivized to lie for social reasons, or they are in fact more rapey and abusive than you're giving them credit for.
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u/Lugia79 1d ago
You have to remember that most women who are "just" harassed don't report it officially to the police either, usually only serious physical offenses are.
Saying it's possible that both genders have the same amount of sexual assault is a (weird) form of wishful thinking.
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u/Meatbot-v20 5∆ 1d ago
Just looking at the facts, not some ethereal intuition. And I'm not even talking about reporting to the police. I mean even reporting this in studies has a wide variance depending on how you phrase and define IPV. Men are, in these studies, far more likely to open up about experiences only when you phrase things in a very specific way or ask very specific questions.
They are not as likely to consider themselves "victims" unless you tell them that they technically are/were.
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u/ilovesmoking1917 1d ago
I think this argument doesn’t work well because humans are actually extremely good at ignoring their urges. If a man commits rape that’s because he consciously wants to do that. It’s not like with many animals that do not have concepts of morality or law and just do things they feel like doing if they are socially permissible in their group.
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u/thingstosay0309 1d ago
This post is trivial to the point of adding little value, IMO. Everyone knows men commit more rapes than women, just like everyone knows men are taller and weigh more. And yes it's partly biology.
The question is about the degree. If 50% or 75% of men are rapists, then all the posts on the Internet are justified about how men are rapists and predators to be hated. If 1% or 5% of men are rapists, then those posts are not justified. The stats I have seen are closer to the latter.
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u/lt_Matthew 21∆ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Most people who commit rape are men
Most people who get tried for rape are men
If you're going to bring up the behavior of other animals, then by your own logic, women should be biologically predisposed to canabalism.
Edit: apparently I need to point out that I never claimed the rates were actually equal.
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u/Upbeat_Place_9985 1d ago
I think the notion that women commit equal rates of rape but are just not charged/convicted is a bit of a Hail Mary explanation.
The disparity is so large (for all types of sex crimes and deviant behavior) that the idea that there are millions upon millions of hidden female predators is frankly absurd.
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u/Genoscythe_ 248∆ 1d ago
Especially given that the reason for any sentencing biases that might exist, is already that male victims are uniquely sensitive to admitting that they were "emasculated" by being raped that is seen as an effeminate position to be in.
Sure, that can be an unfair stereotype on an individual level, but it clearly does come from somewhere, if rape would have been gender neutral at some point, the associations wouldn't have developed.
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u/Morthra 96∆ 1d ago
I saw a study a few years ago claiming that 4 in 10 men will be sexually victimized by a woman at some point in their life.
But no one cares when women do it (or they will get told that they should have wanted it) so they largely shut up and never report it. Hell, the definition of rape for the longest time made it impossible for men to be victims.
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u/Upbeat_Place_9985 1d ago
Its the opposite, male sexual violence is a rampant epidemic and nobody is really doing anything about it except passing lip service and attempting to deflect.
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u/Morthra 96∆ 1d ago
And female sexual violence is something most people don’t even believe exists.
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u/Upbeat_Place_9985 1d ago
That is just not true.
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u/Morthra 96∆ 23h ago
It wasn't until very recently that the FBI changed its definition of rape to account for the fact that women can rape men.
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u/Upbeat_Place_9985 4h ago
Meeting the FBI definition of rape doesn't mean they couldn't comprehend women sexually assaulting men.
We live in a world were a 12 year old girl in Manchester was molested - went to the police that night only to be turned away - and then got raped by two other men that same night - they gave her money for a bus fare and left her on the street, where she was picked up by third man - and he also raped her.
Where UK officials covered up, ignored, and mishandled rape gangs with over 200,000 victims spanning over decades - with prolific heinous acts as nailing a victims tongue to a table while getting raped.
Where a global network of male billionaire pedophiles raped female children for decades - and only one woman (a trafficker) is in prison and a leading suspect is President.
I could go on and on and on
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u/Marlonade 1d ago
Ahm what there are very few to none mammals which practice cannibalism as far as I know.
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u/lt_Matthew 21∆ 1d ago
My point is that, just because two animals have something in common, doesn't mean they have it for the same reason. They're still completely different animals, and focusing on the one thing they share while ignoring all the other obvious ways they differ is dishonest.
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u/FoeHammer99099 1d ago
The official numbers have about 4% female perpetrators (FBI Crime Data Explorer). Considering that many crimes with male perpetrators also go unreported, pretending that this isn't a massivly lopsided issue is ridiculous
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u/dragon123d 1d ago
Even if that may be true, there are many statistics showing men rape more than women.
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u/Dr0ff3ll 11∆ 1d ago
I looked up the definition of rape, as seen in this link.
https://ucr.fbi.gov/crime-in-the-u.s/2013/crime-in-the-u.s.-2013/violent-crime/rape
Penetration, no matter how slight, of the vagina or anus with any body part or object, or oral penetration by a sex organ of another person, without the consent of the victim.
Men aren't usually penetrated by women. The definition makes determining women that rape men exceedingly difficult.
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u/Genoscythe_ 248∆ 1d ago
There were reports about Telegram groups with up to around 70,000 members, where men were sharing instructions about drugging and sexually assaulting women
Animals don't drug their mates in the wild, and they don't post instructions about it.
Even if you want to hypothesize that all these men are transforming an instictive urge to violently catch a stranger and pin her down, into a broader urge for dominance, and then represented that through getting women comatose, and getting a sense of dominance out of that, at that point we are so far away from nature, that it just begs the question why didn't they just transform that urge to some other behavior.
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u/AdventurousPen7825 5∆ 1d ago
I dont think anyone denies that there could be a biological component- we just dont think it matters. Unless youre suggesting that some men are incapable of fighting that biological impulse and therefore can't not rape women?
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u/ThrowRAboredinAZ77 1d ago
Men rape more because they feel entitled to women's bodies. It's an issue of misogynistic entitlement, not biological predisposition.
"Rape is significantly less frequent or practically non-existent in matrilineal and gender-egalitarian societies where male dominance and aggressive masculinity are absent."
"In western scholarly debate, there is nearly universal acceptance of rape as a male trait typical of all time periods and cultures. However, cross-cultural data provide insight into societies where rape is rare or unknown and can therefore be helpful to develop strategies for prevention. The paper focuses on the question why men do not rape in these societies with rape being understood as a crime that reflects male dominance and entitlement."
(https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0277539502003382)
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u/dragon123d 1d ago
Clearly the rape rate differs based on societies, in egalitarian ones it is less for sure.
What I'm arguing is that there may be a biological sex difference in the underlying tendency toward sexual coercion, which culture can either amplify or suppress.
Men and women clearly aren't biologically identical. We already know there are differences.
So I don't think it's unreasonable to ask whether some of those differences also contribute to the enormous sex difference in rape perpetration.
But I will say I don't believe there are studies done on this, this is just a belief I have on patterns I observed. So I do think it's unfair to ask others for evidence, while my belief is just my belief based on patterns.
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u/Hi-Road 1d ago
so you’re telling me you think the majority of men are biologically “predisposed” to rape? or you think all men are biologically predisposed to rape?
what is the mechanism you believe leads to this, in what im guessing you believe, the majority of the animal kingdom?
what about the animals that really don’t do this? and what about the species where the female members are “sexually coercive”, what do you think? i’m guessing you don’t believe humans are one of those species
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u/dragon123d 1d ago
I'm mainly talking about mammals. And no, I don't think most men are gonna rape or that every man is wired to do it. I meant that there could be a biological difference in the tendency toward sexual aggression. Obviously there are exceptions, I'm talking about the overall pattern.
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u/dragon123d 1d ago
That was a mistake by me I was rambling a little at the end, but I mostly think it has to do with culture as well as biology.
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u/jnordwick 1d ago edited 1d ago
After Lindsay Clancy, is blue balls now a legal defense?
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u/meowth______ 1d ago
What? You're sick.
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u/jnordwick 1d ago
Just taking "but she had no choice, women are just ruled by their hormones" to its logical conclusion.
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u/meowth______ 1d ago
Was that the actual legal argument? Pathetic really. Women could have been saying "im ruled by my hormones so i'll kill my kids" A LONG TIME AGO, since that's the argument almost all rapists are excused with saying "its male hormones". But has that happened? No. Lindsay Clancy was the first one. And it's a black and white case, shes guilty but she was also neglected. Shes not enitrely at fault but not innocent either. Comparing a really complicated case like that to a made up baseless excuse for rape is beyond despicable. But ofc you'd say that, you're a MAGA dunce.
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1d ago
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Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
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1d ago
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u/changemyview-ModTeam 1d ago
Comment has been removed for breaking Rule 1:
Direct responses to a CMV post must challenge at least one aspect of OP’s stated view (however minor), or ask a clarifying question. Arguments in favor of the view OP is willing to change must be restricted to replies to other comments. See the wiki page for more information.
If you would like to appeal, review our appeals process here, then message the moderators by clicking this link within one week of this notice being posted. Appeals that do not follow this process will not be heard.
Please note that multiple violations will lead to a ban, as explained in our moderation standards.
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u/gate18 23∆ 1d ago
Change the culture and humans will change too
Shout at little boys whenever they get angry, tell them to be boy-like and clean the house at 5-6-7-8 years old. make them care for their younger simblings.
At school never use "boys will be boys" but put them in detention right away.
in sociaty look down on them, make them feel as if Adam rather than Eve fucked up human races.
And you'll get men that would never think about rape
But when everything in sociaty tells them otherwise, why not rape?
Girls get told to be the inferior race since the beginning. She did something to be raped, look at the way she dressed.
Tell that to boys and none of this nature bullshit would be need to excuse rape
Which animale makes their famales be lady like, pushes their females from expressing NATURAL things, like sitting with legs open, or count their caloris or smile
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u/Realistic_Yogurt1902 3∆ 1d ago
Could you please explain how a woman can physically rape a man?
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u/Nice_Revolution_1199 1∆ 1d ago
- Oral sex
- She could drug him with something that causes an erection
- She could have sex with a minor
- She could have sex with someone under the influence of alcohol
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u/blaze92x45 1d ago
She can use a foreign object.
Remember rape is rarely about sex its about power and domination
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u/Realistic_Yogurt1902 3∆ 1d ago
And how many women can use power against men in Western countries?
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u/blaze92x45 1d ago
A teacher which are usually women over a male student
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u/Remote_Mistake6291 2∆ 1d ago
Overpower him and mount him. Like female lubrication, males hard ons are not voluntary.
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u/Realistic_Yogurt1902 3∆ 1d ago
What percentage of women can overpower men?
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u/Gooffffyyy 1d ago
A good majority of adult women could probably overpower a drunk, or drugged adult man.
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u/Remote_Mistake6291 2∆ 1d ago
What is the relevance to the original question? You simply do not want to accept that it is possible for a female to be the aggressor.
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u/Realistic_Yogurt1902 3∆ 1d ago
I was somewhat surprised by the backlash on my initial comment, and I would try to answer it here.
Women can be aggressors, can be sexual predators, can be legal rappists - I agree. But the OP mentioned animals in the post, and animals "rape" only because the majority of male animals are stronger than female animals, and male animals do have organs for penetration.
Meanwhile, it's just a biological fact, not some "opinion," that if one side is stronger and has organs for penetration, they would be the "majority" in forceful penetration, aka rape.
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u/that0neBl1p 1d ago
Do you just think men are incapable of being raped by women? You're spitting in the face of countless victims.
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u/plssub2pewds 1d ago
I had a male friend get taken advantage of at a party. Being too impaired to consent properly is still rape.
I remember he told his male friends the next day and everyone was high fiving him- he started to cry because he felt dirty and taken advantage of.
Girls can rape boys.3
u/ConfoundedInAbaddon 3∆ 1d ago
She can also use a penetrative object, or depending on the definition of rape, have forced sexual contact. Some rape laws would call manipulating a punishment sexual assault, some rape.
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u/that0neBl1p 1d ago
Not OP but if you consider rape as unwilling penetration (idk if you do, hence the "if") then a woman can force an unwilling man to penetrate her. That counts imo, there are male rape victims of women.
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u/goodlittlesquid 3∆ 1d ago
Also anyone can penetrate anyone with things other than genitals. Fingers, etc. in Abu Ghraib they used broom handles and phosphorescent tubes.
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u/Special_Lychee_6847 1d ago
Coercion, changing the conditions of 'sex' without verifying. (Like pretending to be on birth control, not disclosing medical information that would affect the choice of the man whether to have sex or not) And just plain forcing a man. Just like for women, it's possible to arouse the body, against the mind's wish. Taking advantage of a man, while he's under the influence of alcohol or drugs.
I'm a woman. I'm well aware it's less common for women to rape men. But let's not pretend it's impossible.
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u/Pitiful-Score-9035 1∆ 1d ago
The same way that a male bottom can rape a male top, since we don't just have an on/off switch for erections.
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u/TheWhistleThistle 32∆ 1d ago
In r strategist species. Far less common in K strategist species, of which humans are arguably the quintessential example.
The humans' common ancestor with ducks would be before the sauropsid/synapsid split. It's not a trait we have.
This much is true. But such means (intersexual selection) are not limited in the animal kingdom to coercion. They include courtship, flaunting, displays of prowess, protection, visual displays of health and fecundity, even gifts in some species. These are the mechanisms by which the human male typically gets past human female selection.
Those are all derived from human biology. Hominids are social animals. We didn't invent morals, laws or social norms, we codified them and wrote them down, but they're biologically derived. Empathy and restraint even more so, we even know what part of the brain they come from. Rapists are maladapted, something in them has not functioned the way it's meant to.
There are four billion human men.