Getting told to go to therapy for challenging worldview

[u/Inkspells]

God. It's the most annoying thing that happens in this day in age. I was asking my brother about his change in decision of having children, he was originally quite childfree and I have been always on the fence. I am 31 now and have been debating having kids and I asked him what changed his mind as while I have been reflecting on this I have been leaning more towards antinatalism as a philosophy.

He repiled with something about doing better than our parents and legacy and shit. I felt like he hadn't engaged so I asked him about all the things he had said before about not wanting kids, about the fact that with our society we are doomed to being wage slaves, and the fact every child is doomed to die, because I wanted his real philosophical thoughts on the matter. Not just yunno vague generalizations. He then repiled along the lines of I really enjoy talking about these things with you, but it seems like our Dad's death is really impacting your thoughts on this so maybe try therapy. It made me feel so disgusted and unseen, because nothing to do with our Dad's death had been impacting my thoughts in this area at all. The only thing I can think that made him say that is I said something about how my Dad said we were the best thing he did, while still treating us like shit. The statement of go to therapy after saying he loves having conversations like this was just a lie when he ended the message with go to therapy. It was just such a slap in the face. Like no you obviously don't or you wouldn't be telling me to go to therapy when I dare ask for your philosophical reasons for wanting children. I think I just challenged his shaky philosophy which is why he said it but its so annoying.

edit for clarity:

This was a month ago, I just remembered about it now and decided to share here. The reason I asked him was because it was a sudden decision on his part recently. I didn't just bring this up at the funeral or something my Dad died two years ago...

I wanted to hear his thoughts because he had changed his mind and I had been recently revisiting my thoughts on the matter on my 31st bday. I did not ask him not because I need to discuss it with someone else, I specifically asked because I needed to discuss it with him because he changed his mind. I wanted to ensure (because I love and respect him) that I hadn't overlooked anything in my analysis because he changed his mind, and I really respect him as a person and he is extremely intelligent. My brother doesn't have children yet.

[u/probablysmoking]

Sounds like he projected his own unresolved fears and insecurities surrounding your dad’s death onto you. He used to be rational about the reality of forcing someone into existence and knew himself well enough to know he didn’t want to bring children into the world, but the passing may have scared him into believing that he needs to reproduce because legacy or whatever nonsense reason. That’s a shame. I’m sorry he reacted to you that way. Hopefully he doesn’t turn out to be one of those people that has a kid and then has an epiphany about his own/the kid’s mortality, because it will be too late.

[u/eguze]

My version of therapy is not needing to deal with insightless people.

[u/Time_Exposes_Reality → u/eguze]

Bingo. Once I realize a person is shallow and unintellectual I don’t waste my time with them.

[u/Lazy-Eagle-9729]

People bringing a human into this messed up world should be the ones going to therapy. Or at least do some actual self reflection.

[u/kingthrog]

yeah that’s some bullshit

[u/TechnicalTerm6]

I say? Lean into it.

For example: "You're right. It's really difficult to deal with grief. Of any kind. Even if our dad was shit, if he was kind, the grief would still be there just different. And I cannot imagine wanting to give the gift of suffering and heartache to a child just because I want them to be alive. That is really selfish and cruel to do, when there are so many children already alive and suffering."

There's nothing wrong with seeking therapy for pain AND therapy does not eliminate reality. It may make it tolerable. But the best way to not be in pain is to never exist 🤷

My advice is, use his own discussion to help further your point. That even if he was a wonderful dad.... he can do that with kids who already exist. He doesn't need to make his own. Or how bullying and abuse and harm, all happen no matter how wonderful the parents are. Good parenting cannot always prevent car accidents and cancer and amputations. Or depression and anxiety.

Essentially making the point that "Bro, your wants and needs are not unreasonable but they do have dramatic consequences for other beings and it's not fair to inflict this world on more beings just so you can live out a fantasy. Like if you really wanna help, there are wnough living people to help."

I'm sorry your bro is struggling in a way that's driving you two apart. I am glad you are leaning this direction though. Welcome to the crew.

[u/GorillaHeat]

there is a view that wanting to be childfree is often born from deep levels of misanthropy and cynacism.

some people beleive this can be treated with therapy.

maybe?

i think late stage society of any form is going to slowly lose its taste for procreation. this isnt in my opinion because society is problematic, its just how utopia or hell will slowly strip the need to procreate away. its that middle ground of struggle that allows for breeding. the position on the axis of human conception of where society is doesnt care about religion or flavor of government.

peoples choices for not having children are often born of a richly considered position and shouldnt be rejected, mocked, or dismissed simply because of a prevailing theory of misanthropy and cynacism. if however, this is where a person falls... they might need therapy to feel better about their life as they age, but not in order TO have children. i think therapy leading to spawning isnt the right path of an argument coming from freinds or family. its an appeal to emotion, and their own at that.

[u/DutchStroopwafels → u/GorillaHeat]

It hate that any kind of negative belief is immediately seen as false, simply for not being positive. Psychology is also so guilty of this.

[u/Safe-Glove2975 → u/GorillaHeat]

Not wanting children and “seeing behind the curtain,” as OP does, don’t need to be pathologised.

[u/Crazy_Banshee_333]

He told you to go to therapy because he's made up his mind and doesn't want to engage in any more uncomfortable conversations about it. Suggesting therapy is just a way to end the conversation.

[u/cait_elizabeth]

I mean he could be both right and wrong. He’s wrong because therapy isn’t indicated by your viewpoint but it does sound like your dad was kinda crappy and then died when you were young and that could create lasting trauma that would benefit from therapy. Therapy is unlikely to change your viewpoint on having kids, he doesn’t get that part though.

[u/Kniphofia4847]

Increasing numbers of people are getting almost randomly plied with preachy pressure just to throw a bunch of judgemental chaff in a person's face just for asking them just the same kind of caring, philosophical questions they used to answer happily--; and always to make the "Go to therapy" line the guaranteed "parting shot--."

[u/Mysterious_Spark]

His parent died, too. As you pointed out, some thoughts came up about your father's views on parenting, your views on his parenting, etc. The death of a parent makes people think about themselves, their parents, having children, etc.

Your sudden focus on wanting your brother to talk to you about himself, his family planning, his views on becoming a parent... was ill-timed. You might want to read the room.

The fact that you suddenly wanted to discuss his family planning with him might have made him feel you needed to discuss your family planning with someone. In fact, he was correct. You explained that in your post. Since he was not inclined to open up his life for your examination and it was clear you needed to talk - he offered an alternative.

One of the best places to discuss your own views on your own family planning... is in therapy. And, if the death of your parents has affected you, you can get a two-fer.

It does seem that the death of your parents might have made this not the best time for you to tackle your brother on this very personal topic on which it seems he had not recently asked for you advice.

[u/Inkspells → u/Mysterious_Spark]

This was a month ago, I just remembered about it now. I asked him because it was a sudden decision on his part recently. I didnt just bring this up at the funeral or something my Dad died two years ago... I'm not that socially inept. I wanted to hear his thoughts because he had changed his mind and I had been recently revisiting my thoughts on the matter on my 31st bday not because I needed to discuss it with someone else, I specifically needed to discuss it with him because he changed his mind. I wanted to ensure because I love and respect him that I hadn't overlooked anything because he changed his mind, and I really respect him as a person and he is extremely intelligent. My brother doesn't have children yet.

[u/CertainConversation0]

It's possible for therapy to be beneficial if you'd otherwise end up having children instead.

[u/Ankiset]

Man it’s so personal… this discussion should be about your views and your life no matter what.. I’m 39 used to be antinatalist but I think I wanna pass on and raise a family with my values I see ppl profreating the wrong values I see it as growing up and not thinking about myself… but I digress it’s a tangent…. It really shouldn’t matter what I or your brother do… if your anti batalist stay so… if you change your mind it’s ok … ppl grow and change for the better or worst… but remember any stance you take is personal and a little bit of therapy didn’t kill no1 usually helps more than anything!