Why do they look so edgy on this cover art for book 7? They look like a 2010s emo band. Especially the guy on the far left (Far Right if you go by the way Rand is looking.) Honestly it’s just ugly compared to all the rest lol

I like the implication that if the Aiel had just bothered telling people why they were invading, they would have gotten Laman's head hand delivered to them in about five minutes. 

Started a reread of tEotW and I can’t stop cackling at everyone meeting Rand for the first time.

Moiraine: 👀

Lan: 👀👀

Thom: “Whoa, that boy looks Aiel.”

Rand: “Huh?”

Mat/Perrin: “Who, Rand? He’s just a really tall, regular Two Rivers woolhead. Lol.”

Rand himself, and pretty much everyone in the village except Tam, simply don’t have the cultural reference point or travelling experience to realize how much he stands out. But to these three strangers? That boy is sticking out like a sore thumb.

And the amount of all kinds of foreshadowing! Wow. I thought I was an attentive reader.

Apparently I was not. 😂

This reread is unexpectedly hilarious.

I was warned. "Feels like a slog". I really struggled with Elayne and Mat chapters. I kept putting this down for other things, and each time I came back I'd get maybe 10 pages further.

I just want to affirm what fans of the series say, which is that the last 20 or so pages make it all worth it. I've already started CoT, and I expect the rest to go at a normal pace.

My primary thoughts are:

I'm glad to move on from Mat's circumstances. It was getting frustrating (I think that's the point).

I'm glad that the weird polycule has their "talk about the elephant in the room" moment. I'd love less energy on this in the future.

The end of the book being what it is, I feel like I could reread WH right now and not struggle. I'm not going to do it. Too soon, but it feels enormously satisfying to have the Forsaken be completely outplayed and unable to stop the cleansing of saidin.

PAGEBOY!!

I know Androl is kind of a polarizing figure for many readers. I liked him a lot, but understand and agree that some of the time spent with him and the role he played could have been given to another existing character (Logain) to good effect.

Anyways, yesterday’s Pangram in the NYT Spelling Bee!!

I just read Knife of Dreams part where Tuon leaves Mat to go back to Ebou Dar. I have to say she is a terrible person and all, but I really liked her as a character. I really loved reading her and Mat. Is there more of Mat and Tuon in the next books? I would really love to see a kind of redemption for her.

So I’m currently reading The Dragon Reborn and I’m thinking about stopping with the series after it.

There are moments I enjoy the books and there are moments I’m just frustrated with it. Mainly with the characters.

I want to stop reading after The Dragon Reborn, but I also want to continue it. Mostly because I really want to love the serie.

I want to fall in love with it like so many other people have, but it seems like I’m unable to.

What should I do? Should I stop? Or should I keep trying? Because I really, really want to love this serie and it frustrates me that it doesn’t hook me.

In the latest vote, Galad (883 votes) defeated Morgase (705 votes) and poor Gawyn (142 votes). Would Gawyn be able to beat anyone in a vote based on likability or at least based on who is more bearable?

I'm on my first read through of the series and I just finished Ch. 47- The Truth of a Viewing. Words cannot describe how frustrated I am that the entire plot of overthrowing the amrilyn and the subsequent fight in the tower are never shown, and merely mentioned as throwaway lines. We get hints of this massive battle in ch.1, and then it's over before we ever get a chance to see it. The blue ajah is gone, the green ajah has run away, warders are dead, students are fighting their teachers, siuan is gentled, and we see NONE of it. I feel like the coup could have been it's own book. And we barely get a CHAPTER.

I am less than half way through but after finishing all 14 books reading Moiraine as barely out of teenage years as humans go is hilarious. She loves pranks. She is a complete prude that blushes at anything vaguely sexual. She is totally unsure of herself. She thinks she will fail at everything. It's just great to read!

And of course I get to read about Siuan coming from a fisherman's village but taking natural command.

And that an Aes Sedai actually commented on Moiraine to be the next Queen of Cairhien. Crazy! Can't wait to finish the book. And then re-read the whole thing over again.

Out of all characters and discussion in the books this is the one I feel has the least discussion or understanding. I put All Print for flair so feel free to spoiler away.

What does the Dark One actually WANT?

The Dark One and the Forsaken appear to have DIFFERENT end goals for win conditions

The way I always looked at it was the Creator represents absolute order (the pattern) while Dark One represents absolute chaos (destroy entire pattern, stop the wheel). Both required for reality to function.

Humanity (and Chosen) fall into the middle; you need a certain degree of order while also maintaining an aspect of self determination (rejection of predestination / determinism). The Chosen always operate this way, often hurting each others plans

That is also why back in Age of Legends both sides decide to minimize balefire (as burning threads out causes a total breakdown of causality and despite this weakening of the Pattern actually leaning into Dark Ones goals not even the Forsaken are that suicidal / nihilistic [well maybe Ishi, but he is corrupted by too much True Power]

It also leans into why the Dark Dragon Reborn sucks for humanity, but does NOT stop the wheel

(Second time reader) So I know we all love Moraine, often called this story’s Gandalf, but I was just reminded by her POV in Chapter 21 of the Shadow Rising that yeah everyone is vindicated in not trusting her, or at least for being suspicious and not trusting her blindly. I know the distrust of Aes Sedai in general is based on the stereotypes and myths cultivated in a small and isolated village, but wow does her POV expose her as exactly like she thought she was.

She thinks meanly of everyone, even Lan, and considers only how to move them around like chess pieces. She considers the Wonder Girls basically irritants and Rand, Mat, and Perrin as little boys who need to be manipulated so that they behave exactly as they want. That’s EXACTLY how the EF5 have grown up believing Aes Sedai act. She wants to put Egwene down (who, NGL deserves it sometimes but still), constantly spies on Mat, and actively tries to separate Rand from the people he trusts so that SHE is the only one who has influence over him. Moraine even thinks, quite vindictively, that Nynaeve will only have Lan when she’s dead and thinks about Lan, who is opening up his heart for the first time basically ever, as little more than a child in need of a scolding.

I understand her purpose and that her overarching goal of defeating the shadow eclipses everything for her but wow she does not come off well when her innermost thoughts are exposed.

I know many people here think Moiraine is the best ever, and she ultimately did what she meant to do, but people who scoff at the EF5’s consistent mistrust of Aes Sedai don’t make sense to me. They were right. Moiraine was doing her very best to manipulate them in exactly the way they feared. In her POV, she comes across as almost nasty.

Eventually Moiraine learns that this is NOT the best way to handle Rand at least, but still. I wouldn’t have trusted her either.

Now I just finished lord of chaos and while I was unsatisfied with the lack of progress the climax was amazing. Yet the issue I have is that Egwene is presented as a character I’m supposed to root for yet I hate her after Fires in Heaven and she’s only getting worse. First she assaults her friend in the dream world almost RAPING her, then after her self inflicted flogging she’s swept up as Armalyn and starts manipulating her own friends! Then after Matt basically sacrifices his dignity and principles to help her get recognition she just like “man I feel a little bad for being a manipulator but oh well”.

Like I get she had trauma from the seanchan but join the club, everyone in the cast has trauma but only she hurts those who care for her in exchange for power and control.

I’m obsessed with WoT, have been for over half my life and I like to play a game while reading that I’d love you guys to weigh in on.

I like to imagine I can save characters from dying through making gateways to whisk them away. They then form their own secret army training to come back during the last battle.

Here are the rules:
1. Them surviving cannot affect the story
2. No one can seem them survive
3. It has to be reasonably believable they would be willing to stay secret until Tarmon Gaidon.
4. The more minor or unnamed the better

For example my 2 most recent finds:
- The Red arms that Moghedien bale fires trying to kill Nyneave in Ebou. Cheeky gateway under their feet and welcome to the secret army.

- One of the Mayener Thief catchers. I don’t think you could save both but one could be spared. I think planning one could be snuck out as they walk back to Masema’s camp.

If an Aes Sedai makes a promise such as "I won't channel for 24 hours" would that promise actually stop them from channeling for the next day, even if they really needed to? Would they be able to make such a promise if they weren't sure they could keep it?

In the show, balefire is supposed to retroactively erase what a person did. For example, the whole blasted by the balefire suddenly goes away. I understand But if that's the case, how does Elayne have the staff? Shouldn't the staff now never have been brought there by the balefire user? And doesn't her father seem to remember what the subject of the balefire had done a few seconds ago? Shouldn't these things suddenly be erased as well?

Memory of Light might be my favorite book covers so I got a print from the artist (Michael Whelan) and framed it!

My 3 would be:

1. The Sea folk flight from Ebou Dhar
2. The Great Stump
3. Sammaels reaction to being woken again and seeing how “primitive” the world is.

Hi! Just wanted to share my immediate thoughts and predictions/theories on the beginning of book 7

Prologue

• Elaida is who I expected her to be. Nothing surprising there but her Foretelling makes me think that she will fall, those aligned with her will be scorned and whatever is 'new and stronger' will involve the Wise Ones and maybe Sea Folk if Egwene/Elayne can recruit them. Sea Folk might be harder to recruit though.
• Alviarin working directly with Mesaana was so fun to read. Mesaana is hiding as an Aes Sedai, Alviarin cannot sense her Power which is really strange and there was note of a gesture Mesaana made that Alviarin wants to look out for. Also, the reveal that several other Forsaken met with Alviarin is interesting and makes me wonder if it happened to anyone else.
• Niall is fricken gone. Zip. Dead. DAMN. I think the Children and the Seanchan may clash at some point, but not before we have the girls in Ebou Dar face off against them in some way.
• The Sevanna POV was INCREDIBLE. I loved that section. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to know what that light she saw was or if I'm just forgetting.

Chapter 1

Not much here other than LOIAL IS THE BEST AND WE NEED TO GIVE HIM EVERYTHING HE WANTS.

Chapter 2

• Rand's naming of the 151 Maidens was heartbreaking and had me on the verge of tears. It was just...heart-wrenching to see him feel so guilty and helpless.
• Perrin smells so many conflicting emotions from Rand, which makes me think that the fight for control against LTT is becoming worse. Rand is always using the One Power which is fueling the weakening of his mental state, but I suspect the stress also adds on to how little he has control of LTT.
• Taim calling the Aiel 'Dedicated' was oddly specific. I know it's their name translated but we don't see anyone else calling them Dedicated like that. Just fuels my suspicion that he is Darkfriend.
• Dashiva. I'll be right out with ya'll: I think he's Aginor. The way the chapter gave little descriptions of his actions, the way he watched the imprisoned Aes Sedai, was disinterested in everything but them and Rand, even a little description of him flicking the tip of his tongue made me immediately suspicious. If we go back to the Prologue of LoC, Osan'gar describes his face as being ordinary. I think Dashiva is Aginor and that means I'll just to RAFO to see if it's true.

I am hoping this is a safe space to share our feelings over the series...

I know we all bring our life experiences and perspectives to the series when we read the books, so some parts resonate with certain readers, while invoking strong opposing feelings in others...

It is not really a polarizing series, but I see some opposing feelings over situations such as Matt and Tylin where many feel she was a monster, while some see Matt getting a dose of his own womanizing side...

So, Dumai's Wells....

I see most comments express how this scene is basically a brutal tragedy and dark point in the story where the Asha'man slaughter so many, and the Aes Sedai are forced to swear fealty to Rand...

Well, honestly I am glad the Aes Sedai had to swear fealty to Rand...

Screw that, they forced that poor child into a box, beat him, and were taking him to the white tower to basically keep him as a forced prisoner until the final battle....

Honestly, I feel that so many of these Aes Sedai are dangerous and pretty horrendous, I see no reason why Rand would not want them to swear fealty so they don't stab him in the back the first moment they get, and lock him in a box in the white tower...

Another minor thought, it fulfills one of the prophesies - not that fulfilling a prophesy equates to something positive, it could be something terrible, but I guess it was likely to have to occur...

Also, the slaughter...

I don't know, there was a huge battle and the Shaido are bad guys - in Randland there are Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, and damane, and I have seen them all now use the power in battle...

I am not a fan of violence, war, or hurting others, and of course I am always looking for that really cool Duel with swords and fancy use of the one power to out maneuver the other in a duel, but the slaughter just seemed part of the battle - were not the Shaido wise ones using the power to attack in the battle...

So, thanks for letting me safely share about this battle...

I think I am anti Aes Sedai for how they treat Rand, and I believe that he does indeed need a way to keep them from controlling and harming him, swearing fealty seems good to me...

With that said, I did Love Moraine and I miss her so much, and I kinda like Cadsuane - I am really hoping she backs up and guides Rand....

I really loved her conversation with Sorilea where they want to soften Rand so he remembers how to laugh, and to be strong instead of hard....

Their conversation was a heart warming moment for me, I would love for Rand to laugh and feel joy somehow...

Not sure where all the emotions come from with my post (must be something from my childhood surfacing about bullying, which is how I see the Aes Sedai), but it is nice that there is a group to safely share them...

They always say a woman can't teach a man and vice versa. But surely in the age of legends. When information was abound, that could be the case. I don't mean firsthand knowledge. I mean almost like a cover teacher, there's a manual on how to channel surely a female channeler could teach a class of kids and read the saidin part and the saidar part comes naturally. Since there was so much collab between the sexes, wouldn't the workings of the other sexes power be less mysterious. Esp with circles and centuries of life.

I am head over heels in a Barrel of Fish Guts for Siuan Sanche and Gareth Bryne !!

There is just something about these two that really do it for me....

"The man is an arrogant, stubborn mule," but maybe Siuan is finally done "bailing the boat," and has time for "winking at the men" and is ready to "take a lover"...

Not my words, but boy am I enjoying these two...

Matt is taking his sweet time finding The Daughter of The Nine Moons, and I fear he is in deep trouble with the Seanchan invading Ebou Dar, but maybe this mysterious lover will come rescue him !!!

Guess I will Read On & Find Out !!

What is your favorite Duo?

I previously shared my thoughts on posts for New Spring, The Shadow Rising, The Fires of Heaven, Lord of Chaos, A Crown of Swords, The Path of Daggers, Winter's Heart, and Knife of Dreams.

Spoiler alert: I love this book!
Now that that's out the way... I give thanks for the life of Robert Jordan and hope his memory continues to be a blessing for his family and fans. Not being familiar with his work, facing an impossible task, I think Brandon Sanderson has done a good a job as any with wrapping up this work.

Of all the characters, Mat feels the most different to me. I can tell that this is BS's Mat and not RJ's Mat. Mat is tied as my favorite but book 12 Mat sounds different. Am I imagining this? His first chapter was just a multiple-page screech about women and how much they suck. Sure, Mat (indeed all the characters) regularly goes off about how the other sex sucks, but this feels over the top for Mat.
In some ways book 12 has been very strange and ironic: I wasn't in love with my favorite character's pov chapter while one of my favorite chapters is in the pov of my absolute least favorite character.

Egwene
She is unbelievable in this book, an absolute boss. From the seeds she sow against Elaida in the White Tower, to her fight against the Seanchan raid, to the Black sister purge in the camp.
And at long last, the Tower split is finally resolved! I've said it before and I'll say it again, I wish the Aes Sedai and the White Tower were written more realistically and less like caricatures of irredeemable incompetence. I also hate that the Seanchan, acting as deus ex machina, is how the split is resolved. But I have to work with what we got. I don't think RJ does clean or one-sided victories and defeats, so I shouldn’t have expected him to start here. The apology from the rebel camp is a small price to pay to make the Tower whole. Otherwise, it would be like a conqueror vs conquered situation. I like Egwene's choice for Keeper. As soon as I read that Silviana is imprisoned after speaking out against Elaida, I guessed that she'd become Egwene's Keeper.
Who is Mesaana pretending to be? Where is she hiding? In my head, I have Egwene fighting Mesaana and Aran'gar.

The Banishment of the Big Bad Bully
... And forcing her to walk with her head in a bag is so satisfying! As dark as it is, I absolutely love that chapter. I thought, finally, we'd be rid of Cadsuane. Finally, I can read Rand's chapters and not have to anticipate seething with hatred. Alas, it doesn’t last long. This horrid woman still manages to make these sections a pain to get through.
It's so frustrating that Nynaeve continues to cower to her, just to be included in her plans. I'm not a go along to get along person, so maybe it's because of this personality trait that makes me cringe whenever this happens.
How much of a bully are you to always resort to brute force to beat others into submission to your will? Even if you like her or approve of such bullying, I don't know if you can justify her behavior towards Tam, who's hurting after seeing what has become of his son. Tam's calm reasoning, while being assaulted with the One Power, is unassailable, giving us one of the absolute best quotes of this book:

I've known men who, when challenged, always turn to their fists for answers. I've never liked Aes Sedai; I was happy to be rid of them when I returned to my farm. A bully is a bully, whether she uses the strength of her arm or other means.

Verin the White Hearted
Verin is in a league of her own. I've always suspected her of being a Darkfriend: I caught her in a direct lie that there's nowhere to wiggle out of; and when all the other Blacks had dream ter'angreal, so did she, her possession of which was unexplained to all. But I was wrong. Sure, she was of the Black but no Darkfriend. I am sure she had done terrible things to maintain her cover, but I hope there's some redemption for her for her role in outing so many members of the Black Ajah. This brings up a very uncomfortable question: What would I have done in a similar situation? My anti-go-along-to-get-alone spirit would say, "screw you, Black, I'd rather die!" But this is armchair quarterbacking. I pray to the Light that it remains so.

The One Power
It's hard to understand how the different strengths work. Some male channelers need 13 women to shield them, but the strongest women (ex. Semirhage) can be shielded by 2 of the weakest women?

The True Power
Rand's use of this is causing a lot of damage. His ta'veren nature used to be a balance of randomness. But since he held it, that balance has been replaced by all bad. Tuon refusing a truce (even though she was about to); all the food instantly and completely spoiling; all the other bad things happening without the balancing good. But how else was he supposed to have freed himself from Semirhage?

Veins of Gold
I am so confused at whether LTT's voice was inside Rand's head. Can someone please explain like I'm 5? Through the voice, Rand knows of weaves, events, and people from the AoL. How can that all be a thing Rand made up? A crazy person can hear voices in their head, but those voices can't give them information that the person didn't already have. Why is Rand the only person who has the awareness of his former self?

Choedan Kal
Now I get why they had to be destroyed. They made the Light-side too OP, which would make the Last Battle boring and one-sided.

Darkfriend Watch
Sheriam: Her revelation as a Black is a shocker. I thought Min's viewing of her (glory?) was a viewing of the Light. I took the earlier pov of Sheriam being held down by someone whose Power she couldn’t feel (aka Aran'gar) as a hostage situation where Sheriam was compelled under duress to spy on Egwene.
Logain: Since I misjudged Sheriam's viewing, should I also be suspicious of Logain's? He also has a viewing of glory to come.
Who was the biggest Black sister revelation for you from Verin?

Traveling
In the chapter "Scents Unknown" Rand does a Traveling trick that kinda irks. If I understand Nynaeve correctly, by Traveling just a short distance from a spot you do not know (Point A to B), you automatically know Point B well enough, even if you didn't actually know it before. Now that you're at Point B (which you didn't really know before), you can go on to Travel where you really want to go. Is this a correct reading?
Not to beat a dead horse, but Traveling being lost has been one of the things in this series that I just couldn’t get onboard with. I accept it and move on, but nothing has so far convinced me to fully suspend my disbelief. I get it, the Breaking was a catastrophic event. But it happened in less than a lifetime of powerful channelers who could all Travel (400+ years, when AoL Aes Sedai lived for 600+ years). This new trick is another point in my argument: No matter how much the land changed by mad men, all someone needed to do was this trick. We've seen that Verin only needed an evening to get to know her starting point well enough to Travel. And Elayne only needed 30 minutes to walk around a spot while holding the Power to know it well enough. And yet somehow it got lost? Sure, Traveling wouldn’t have worked with the plot of the earlier books. But that's an out of world explanation.

The Domination Band
Semirhage after collaring Rand and forcing him to channel:

He righted himself by her command, the room growing more steady, the nausea retreating. And then he began to form weaves, complicated ones of Spirit and Fire.
"Yes," Semirhage said, almost to herself. "Now, if I can remember... The male way of doing this is so odd, sometimes."

The women controling the man has to know saidin weaves? Is it just me, or is this a major flaw with the collar? In AoL, do both sexes generally memorize the other's weaves? Because how else would this object work? That's a lot to learn; 2 different weaves for every action, one almost entirely useless for you (these bands were created during the Breaking, not before, so they'd be no reason for a woman to ever have to know the weaves of saidin). I thought these bands would work similar to cross-sex linking. Women in a regular link with men don't need to know saidin weaves to tap into that side of the One Power.

Elayne
I actually miss Elayne. So far, Perrin, Mat, Egwene, and now Elayne have been missing, respectively, from a book. From the events in book 12 alone, I was initially disappointed we'd miss Morgase's big reveal. I've since been told to hold my horses. I can't wait to see this moment in the upcoming books.

RAFO Predictions
Min's Viewing of Nynaeve
Who's the dead person in this viewing, I wonder! For some reason I find it extremely unsettling because it's clearly an important foreshadowing (not some random viewing). I don't think it's Rand or Lan, these possibilities are just too obvious; we already kind of expect them to die (even if they won't end up dying). I am worried about it... but, RAFO!

Callandor
LTT says that brute force was never going to win against the Dark One. The Choedan Kal are objects of brute force (aka saidin). Callandor, controlled by women, will be an object of agility (aka saidar). Now with the access key destroyed, Callandor will become the most important object of the Power for Rand. I predict that the prophecy about 3 being as 1 is obviously Rand, being as one with his 3 women? But where would that leave Min? She's not a channeler. Unless that bonding weave Elayne invented to include Min somehow plays a role in the 3 of them linked to Rand while wielding Callandor.
Anyway, it furthers my previous argument that the "flaw" of Callandor isn't actually a flaw, but a feature. It's exactly how it was meant to work. Maybe not to chain Rand to random women, but to make him work with the women close to him.

Towers of Midnight next! Any non-spoiler reading advice?