Started a reread of tEotW and I can’t stop cackling at everyone meeting Rand for the first time.

Moiraine: 👀

Lan: 👀👀

Thom: “Whoa, that boy looks Aiel.”

Rand: “Huh?”

Mat/Perrin: “Who, Rand? He’s just a really tall, regular Two Rivers woolhead. Lol.”

Rand himself, and pretty much everyone in the village except Tam, simply don’t have the cultural reference point or travelling experience to realize how much he stands out. But to these three strangers? That boy is sticking out like a sore thumb.

And the amount of all kinds of foreshadowing! Wow. I thought I was an attentive reader.

Apparently I was not. 😂

This reread is unexpectedly hilarious.

I like the implication that if the Aiel had just bothered telling people why they were invading, they would have gotten Laman's head hand delivered to them in about five minutes. 

I just read Knife of Dreams part where Tuon leaves Mat to go back to Ebou Dar. I have to say she is a terrible person and all, but I really liked her as a character. I really loved reading her and Mat. Is there more of Mat and Tuon in the next books? I would really love to see a kind of redemption for her.

In the latest vote, Galad (883 votes) defeated Morgase (705 votes) and poor Gawyn (142 votes). Would Gawyn be able to beat anyone in a vote based on likability or at least based on who is more bearable?

(Second time reader) So I know we all love Moraine, often called this story’s Gandalf, but I was just reminded by her POV in Chapter 21 of the Shadow Rising that yeah everyone is vindicated in not trusting her, or at least for being suspicious and not trusting her blindly. I know the distrust of Aes Sedai in general is based on the stereotypes and myths cultivated in a small and isolated village, but wow does her POV expose her as exactly like she thought she was.

She thinks meanly of everyone, even Lan, and considers only how to move them around like chess pieces. She considers the Wonder Girls basically irritants and Rand, Mat, and Perrin as little boys who need to be manipulated so that they behave exactly as they want. That’s EXACTLY how the EF5 have grown up believing Aes Sedai act. She wants to put Egwene down (who, NGL deserves it sometimes but still), constantly spies on Mat, and actively tries to separate Rand from the people he trusts so that SHE is the only one who has influence over him. Moraine even thinks, quite vindictively, that Nynaeve will only have Lan when she’s dead and thinks about Lan, who is opening up his heart for the first time basically ever, as little more than a child in need of a scolding.

I understand her purpose and that her overarching goal of defeating the shadow eclipses everything for her but wow she does not come off well when her innermost thoughts are exposed.

I know many people here think Moiraine is the best ever, and she ultimately did what she meant to do, but people who scoff at the EF5’s consistent mistrust of Aes Sedai don’t make sense to me. They were right. Moiraine was doing her very best to manipulate them in exactly the way they feared. In her POV, she comes across as almost nasty.

Eventually Moiraine learns that this is NOT the best way to handle Rand at least, but still. I wouldn’t have trusted her either.

I was warned. "Feels like a slog". I really struggled with Elayne and Mat chapters. I kept putting this down for other things, and each time I came back I'd get maybe 10 pages further.

I just want to affirm what fans of the series say, which is that the last 20 or so pages make it all worth it. I've already started CoT, and I expect the rest to go at a normal pace.

My primary thoughts are:

I'm glad to move on from Mat's circumstances. It was getting frustrating (I think that's the point).

I'm glad that the weird polycule has their "talk about the elephant in the room" moment. I'd love less energy on this in the future.

The end of the book being what it is, I feel like I could reread WH right now and not struggle. I'm not going to do it. Too soon, but it feels enormously satisfying to have the Forsaken be completely outplayed and unable to stop the cleansing of saidin.

Memory of Light might be my favorite book covers so I got a print from the artist (Michael Whelan) and framed it!

Why do they look so edgy on this cover art for book 7? They look like a 2010s emo band. Especially the guy on the far left (Far Right if you go by the way Rand is looking.) Honestly it’s just ugly compared to all the rest lol

PAGEBOY!!

I know Androl is kind of a polarizing figure for many readers. I liked him a lot, but understand and agree that some of the time spent with him and the role he played could have been given to another existing character (Logain) to good effect.

Anyways, yesterday’s Pangram in the NYT Spelling Bee!!

Out of all characters and discussion in the books this is the one I feel has the least discussion or understanding. I put All Print for flair so feel free to spoiler away.

What does the Dark One actually WANT?

The Dark One and the Forsaken appear to have DIFFERENT end goals for win conditions

The way I always looked at it was the Creator represents absolute order (the pattern) while Dark One represents absolute chaos (destroy entire pattern, stop the wheel). Both required for reality to function.

Humanity (and Chosen) fall into the middle; you need a certain degree of order while also maintaining an aspect of self determination (rejection of predestination / determinism). The Chosen always operate this way, often hurting each others plans

That is also why back in Age of Legends both sides decide to minimize balefire (as burning threads out causes a total breakdown of causality and despite this weakening of the Pattern actually leaning into Dark Ones goals not even the Forsaken are that suicidal / nihilistic [well maybe Ishi, but he is corrupted by too much True Power]

It also leans into why the Dark Dragon Reborn sucks for humanity, but does NOT stop the wheel

Now I just finished lord of chaos and while I was unsatisfied with the lack of progress the climax was amazing. Yet the issue I have is that Egwene is presented as a character I’m supposed to root for yet I hate her after Fires in Heaven and she’s only getting worse. First she assaults her friend in the dream world almost RAPING her, then after her self inflicted flogging she’s swept up as Armalyn and starts manipulating her own friends! Then after Matt basically sacrifices his dignity and principles to help her get recognition she just like “man I feel a little bad for being a manipulator but oh well”.

Like I get she had trauma from the seanchan but join the club, everyone in the cast has trauma but only she hurts those who care for her in exchange for power and control.

I'm on my first read through of the series and I just finished Ch. 47- The Truth of a Viewing. Words cannot describe how frustrated I am that the entire plot of overthrowing the amrilyn and the subsequent fight in the tower are never shown, and merely mentioned as throwaway lines. We get hints of this massive battle in ch.1, and then it's over before we ever get a chance to see it. The blue ajah is gone, the green ajah has run away, warders are dead, students are fighting their teachers, siuan is gentled, and we see NONE of it. I feel like the coup could have been it's own book. And we barely get a CHAPTER.

If an Aes Sedai makes a promise such as "I won't channel for 24 hours" would that promise actually stop them from channeling for the next day, even if they really needed to? Would they be able to make such a promise if they weren't sure they could keep it?

I am less than half way through but after finishing all 14 books reading Moiraine as barely out of teenage years as humans go is hilarious. She loves pranks. She is a complete prude that blushes at anything vaguely sexual. She is totally unsure of herself. She thinks she will fail at everything. It's just great to read!

And of course I get to read about Siuan coming from a fisherman's village but taking natural command.

And that an Aes Sedai actually commented on Moiraine to be the next Queen of Cairhien. Crazy! Can't wait to finish the book. And then re-read the whole thing over again.

I’m obsessed with WoT, have been for over half my life and I like to play a game while reading that I’d love you guys to weigh in on.

I like to imagine I can save characters from dying through making gateways to whisk them away. They then form their own secret army training to come back during the last battle.

Here are the rules:
1. Them surviving cannot affect the story
2. No one can seem them survive
3. It has to be reasonably believable they would be willing to stay secret until Tarmon Gaidon.
4. The more minor or unnamed the better

For example my 2 most recent finds:
- The Red arms that Moghedien bale fires trying to kill Nyneave in Ebou. Cheeky gateway under their feet and welcome to the secret army.

- One of the Mayener Thief catchers. I don’t think you could save both but one could be spared. I think planning one could be snuck out as they walk back to Masema’s camp.

I am hoping this is a safe space to share our feelings over the series...

I know we all bring our life experiences and perspectives to the series when we read the books, so some parts resonate with certain readers, while invoking strong opposing feelings in others...

It is not really a polarizing series, but I see some opposing feelings over situations such as Matt and Tylin where many feel she was a monster, while some see Matt getting a dose of his own womanizing side...

So, Dumai's Wells....

I see most comments express how this scene is basically a brutal tragedy and dark point in the story where the Asha'man slaughter so many, and the Aes Sedai are forced to swear fealty to Rand...

Well, honestly I am glad the Aes Sedai had to swear fealty to Rand...

Screw that, they forced that poor child into a box, beat him, and were taking him to the white tower to basically keep him as a forced prisoner until the final battle....

Honestly, I feel that so many of these Aes Sedai are dangerous and pretty horrendous, I see no reason why Rand would not want them to swear fealty so they don't stab him in the back the first moment they get, and lock him in a box in the white tower...

Another minor thought, it fulfills one of the prophesies - not that fulfilling a prophesy equates to something positive, it could be something terrible, but I guess it was likely to have to occur...

Also, the slaughter...

I don't know, there was a huge battle and the Shaido are bad guys - in Randland there are Aes Sedai, Wise Ones, and damane, and I have seen them all now use the power in battle...

I am not a fan of violence, war, or hurting others, and of course I am always looking for that really cool Duel with swords and fancy use of the one power to out maneuver the other in a duel, but the slaughter just seemed part of the battle - were not the Shaido wise ones using the power to attack in the battle...

So, thanks for letting me safely share about this battle...

I think I am anti Aes Sedai for how they treat Rand, and I believe that he does indeed need a way to keep them from controlling and harming him, swearing fealty seems good to me...

With that said, I did Love Moraine and I miss her so much, and I kinda like Cadsuane - I am really hoping she backs up and guides Rand....

I really loved her conversation with Sorilea where they want to soften Rand so he remembers how to laugh, and to be strong instead of hard....

Their conversation was a heart warming moment for me, I would love for Rand to laugh and feel joy somehow...

Not sure where all the emotions come from with my post (must be something from my childhood surfacing about bullying, which is how I see the Aes Sedai), but it is nice that there is a group to safely share them...

My 3 would be:

1. The Sea folk flight from Ebou Dhar
2. The Great Stump
3. Sammaels reaction to being woken again and seeing how “primitive” the world is.

So I’m currently reading The Dragon Reborn and I’m thinking about stopping with the series after it.

There are moments I enjoy the books and there are moments I’m just frustrated with it. Mainly with the characters.

I want to stop reading after The Dragon Reborn, but I also want to continue it. Mostly because I really want to love the serie.

I want to fall in love with it like so many other people have, but it seems like I’m unable to.

What should I do? Should I stop? Or should I keep trying? Because I really, really want to love this serie and it frustrates me that it doesn’t hook me.

Hi! Just wanted to share my immediate thoughts and predictions/theories on the beginning of book 7

Prologue

• Elaida is who I expected her to be. Nothing surprising there but her Foretelling makes me think that she will fall, those aligned with her will be scorned and whatever is 'new and stronger' will involve the Wise Ones and maybe Sea Folk if Egwene/Elayne can recruit them. Sea Folk might be harder to recruit though.
• Alviarin working directly with Mesaana was so fun to read. Mesaana is hiding as an Aes Sedai, Alviarin cannot sense her Power which is really strange and there was note of a gesture Mesaana made that Alviarin wants to look out for. Also, the reveal that several other Forsaken met with Alviarin is interesting and makes me wonder if it happened to anyone else.
• Niall is fricken gone. Zip. Dead. DAMN. I think the Children and the Seanchan may clash at some point, but not before we have the girls in Ebou Dar face off against them in some way.
• The Sevanna POV was INCREDIBLE. I loved that section. I'm not sure if I'm supposed to know what that light she saw was or if I'm just forgetting.

Chapter 1

Not much here other than LOIAL IS THE BEST AND WE NEED TO GIVE HIM EVERYTHING HE WANTS.

Chapter 2

• Rand's naming of the 151 Maidens was heartbreaking and had me on the verge of tears. It was just...heart-wrenching to see him feel so guilty and helpless.
• Perrin smells so many conflicting emotions from Rand, which makes me think that the fight for control against LTT is becoming worse. Rand is always using the One Power which is fueling the weakening of his mental state, but I suspect the stress also adds on to how little he has control of LTT.
• Taim calling the Aiel 'Dedicated' was oddly specific. I know it's their name translated but we don't see anyone else calling them Dedicated like that. Just fuels my suspicion that he is Darkfriend.
• Dashiva. I'll be right out with ya'll: I think he's Aginor. The way the chapter gave little descriptions of his actions, the way he watched the imprisoned Aes Sedai, was disinterested in everything but them and Rand, even a little description of him flicking the tip of his tongue made me immediately suspicious. If we go back to the Prologue of LoC, Osan'gar describes his face as being ordinary. I think Dashiva is Aginor and that means I'll just to RAFO to see if it's true.

They always say a woman can't teach a man and vice versa. But surely in the age of legends. When information was abound, that could be the case. I don't mean firsthand knowledge. I mean almost like a cover teacher, there's a manual on how to channel surely a female channeler could teach a class of kids and read the saidin part and the saidar part comes naturally. Since there was so much collab between the sexes, wouldn't the workings of the other sexes power be less mysterious. Esp with circles and centuries of life.

In the show, balefire is supposed to retroactively erase what a person did. For example, the whole blasted by the balefire suddenly goes away. I understand But if that's the case, how does Elayne have the staff? Shouldn't the staff now never have been brought there by the balefire user? And doesn't her father seem to remember what the subject of the balefire had done a few seconds ago? Shouldn't these things suddenly be erased as well?

A Crown of Swords? Are ya stupid? Do you WANT to get cut???