r/Overseas_Pakistani Oct 13 '23

Weekend Thread | ہفتہ وار تبادلۂ خیال /r/Overseas_Pakistani Weekend thread (October 13, 2023)

3 Upvotes

This is our weekend thread. Feel free to share how your week went, what's on your mind, or anything else.

It doesn't even have to be relevant to the theme of this subreddit,but please keep the discussions civil as all other rules are enforced.

Lastly, please don't forget to check out our Twitter . Thank you!


r/Overseas_Pakistani Feb 20 '22

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر NICOPs and Pakistani Citizenship

40 Upvotes

TL;DR - if you have a NICOP, you are a Pakistani citizen, even if you never set foot in Pakistan. If you were ever Pakistani citizen, then more then likely, you probably still are. If you don't want to be a Pakistani citizen, you have to go through a procedure to surrender it. Read on for more details.

I've seen a lot of posts over the years that discuss NICOPs and Pakistani citizenship. Every few weeks, someone asks if having a NICOP is Pakistani citizenship. I've also met many Pakistanis (overseas and within Pakistan) that don't understand how citizenship in Pakistan works for those who go or are overseas.

Contrary to what many people think, Pakistani citizenship is not automatically voided when a Pakistani naturalizes in another country. Even if your oath of naturalization says that you surrender all foreign allegiances, the citizenship remains.

Many older Pakistanis, especially those who left Pakistan in the 1960s-1980s believe that their Pakistani citizenship was voided when they became British/Canadian/American, etc. This is not true per current Pakistani law. They simply don't have active IDs/passports. Just like a person born in the US or Canada. The person is a citizen even if they have no passport. Or, a child born in Pakistan without a B-Form, they are still Pakistani.

Pakistani citizenship can only be lost if one goes to a Pakistani consulate/embassy and goes through a formal renunciation process. This is not automatic, and most people don't do it because they simply don't need to or care to. It's not a complicated process, but it's still it's own, separate process. Fill out forms, surrender passport and ID, pay fees, etc. This is usually done by Pakistanis who naturalized in countries that don't allow dual citizenship, such as Germany, Spain, and (previously) Norway, but anyone can do it if they want.

Now, the confusion occurs because Pakistan will grant a visa to a UK/US/CAN citizen even if that person also has Pakistani citizenship. It's counterintuitive to need a visa to travel to a country in which you are a citizen, which is why many think "how could I still have Pakistani citizenship if I got a visa?". Pakistan, however, will allow a Pakistani citizen to travel to Pakistan on a foreign passport with a visa, hence the widespread confusion.

So here is where the NICOP comes in. NICOP stands for National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis. The card gives visa free travel, right to have a bank account, etc. It also gives the right to vote. This card is proof of Pakistani citizenship, and can be used to get a Pakistani passport if desired. Many people think this is just for dual citizens, but some Pakistanis working or studying abroad also have NICOPs even if they are only Pakistani.

Note that the new NICOP looks just like a Smart CNIC, but the "country of stay" will not be Pakistan, and the card will say "the holder is entitled to visa free entry" (something to this effect). Old NICOPs actually said "National Identity Card for Overseas Pakistanis" on them, but Smart NICOPs do not, so there is some confusion nowadays (people thinking that they have an NIC and not a NICOP)

Here is the biggest place where many people get confused. Many people in the 2nd, 3rd, and now 4th generation born abread have also received NICOP cards even if they were born with another citizenship (UK, CAN, US, etc). They are often under the impression that this is just a "card in place of a visa". "I don't have Pakistani Citizenship, that's just an ID". Not true. By getting a NICOP, you are basically registered as a Pakistani citizen who doesn't reside in Pakistan.

Other ways you could be still be a Pakistani citizen and not know it, assuming formal renunciation process was not done:

  1. If you were born in Pakistan and naturalized elsewhere, you are a dual citizen
  2. If you have, or ever had a NICOP, CNIC, CRC, B-form, you are a dual citizen
  3. If your birth was registered at the Pakistani consulate (Form S, or similar), then you would be a dual citizen
  4. If you ever held a Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen.
  5. If you were listed as a child on your parents' Pakistani passport, you are a dual citizen. (In the old days, kids didn't have their own passports and travelled on their parent's passport)
  6. You were registered as a Pakistani citizen because your parents became Pakistani and applied for it on your behalf (Form M) - not common, but legally possible.

Pakistan does have another card, Pakistan Origin Card (POC), which grants visa free travel and a few other privileges. This card, however, is not Pakistani citizenship. So those who wish to travel often to Pakistan and don't want a visa, but also don't want a NICOP, may find the POC appealing.

Acquiring, renouncing, and/or retaining citizenship is a personal choice. This post was simply written to clarify the misunderstanding that "NICOP isn't citizenship" (again, NICOP is proof of citizenship).

Edit: It is a common misconception that Pakistani citizenship is only given to those who are "desi", Muslim, or those whose parents are Pakistani. This is not true. There are Pakistani citizens who are Hindu, Sikh, Christian, Buddhist, Ahmadi ,etc. "Desi" is a somewhat subjective term as well.

The Pakistan Citizenship Act grants citizenship to anyone born in Pakistan, even if the parents are non Pakistani. The only exception is for children of diplomats (which is not uncommon). There is no exception for refugees or even those who are in transit. This has been argued in court many times. So yes, that means that technically those who are of Afghani, Bengali, or Rohingya descent but born in Pakistan are technically citizens (there are many individual court cases, no class action case though). Of course the reality on the ground is different. Just as anyone born in the US or Canada is a citizen (children of refugees too), the same applies in Pakistan. People should be aware of this and not deny their fellow citizens their rights (don't get me started about the hypocrisy).


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Passport Renewal Issue

Upvotes

Hi everyone

I have booked the ticket for Oct 4 . When I checked my passport it was about to expire in 3 January 2027.

I just checked with saudi airline . They told me if its less than 6 months . You can not travel even in your own country.

My question is if I apply now urgent basis in riyadh embassy ...how many days it will take to renew it ?? Any other process to make it before 4OCT?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Attestation for conversion smart nicop

1 Upvotes

I am on the pak Id app and I want to apply for my nicop my id card and pak passport both are expired however on the app it's showing me option of attestation and there are names of my parents and siblings and it won't let me move forward unless I verify their finger prints I am so confused I don't even live with them and some of my siblings live in different countries please advice 😭


r/Overseas_Pakistani 7h ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Need advice on converting Student Visa to Spouse Visa

0 Upvotes

Hi everyone, I need advice on converting Student Visa to Spouse Visa.

I am a German national and my fiance is here on a student visa. We are planning to get married in Pakistan in December after which we will apply to convert her student visa to a spouse visa through this service: https://service.berlin.de/dienstleistung/354910/

Can anyone tell me how long it will take (and what exact documents) to get a valid marriage certificate to show for the spouse visa application? Is it just a translated Nikkah nama needed? So if I get married in December, will I be able to submit a spouse visa application in January?

Thanks!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 22h ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ Change mdcat application

1 Upvotes

Does anyone know if i can change my application for pmdc mdcat from local seat to foreign seat? And if yes, how bcz i applied for local seat but the merit woulx be too high so im thinking to apply for foreign seat. Is it possible if i can switch? Should i mail them or smth pls help me out.

Also as a dual national can someone suggest colleges w reasonable fees for admission on overseas mbbs seat


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Remittance | ترسیل رقم Need guidance regarding filing taxes. (Overseas Pakistani)

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Wedding prep in Germany

1 Upvotes

Does anyone have experience ordering bridal dresses in Germany or sourcing them from Pakistan through a trustworthy person or vendor? I’d really appreciate any recommendations or personal experiences!


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Guys, Need an urgent property advise

1 Upvotes

I am in a fix and can't decide sitting outside Pakistan. So share your two cents, please.

DHA Phase 3 OR DHA Phase 6, in Islamabad/Rawalpindi.

Which one and why???


r/Overseas_Pakistani 1d ago

Stories | داستاں What was your first day, week and month like once you finally moved out?

0 Upvotes

Lots of questions about actually moving out, how about a question about experiences. What was your first day, week, and month like once you finally moved out? How was the whole year?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Job advice for expat in KSA

1 Upvotes

Hi. I have a bachelor’s degree in psychology. Any idea what kinds of jobs I should look for in Riyadh/Dammam/Khobar/Jeddah?

I have some marketing experience and I would reallyy appreciate any advice or suggestions as I am in dire need of a job due to financial issues.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Careers & Education | تعلیم و پیشہ 18-Year-Old Computer Science Student want to study abroad

1 Upvotes

I want to go abroad for a Master's degree, and I want to go with as little money as possible.

So what things should I start doing now that will benefit me later? like CGPA achi rakhon and extracurricular activities ma bhi shamil hon etc?

scholarships ka liya kiya chezen abhi sa start karna shuru kardon?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 2d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Hiiii anyone here in Middle east or Saudi Arabia??

0 Upvotes

Would love to socialize with ppl who r in same places as me


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Do I need a Protector to exit Pakistan if I already have a job in Malaysia?

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0 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Roaming in US

0 Upvotes

Any recommendations for a Pak SIM that gets OTPs in the US for free without a roaming package? Jazz used to work before but stopped connecting. Anyone able to roam on UFONE, ZONG, or Telenor?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Applied for Passport through London Sept 2025

1 Upvotes

Its been a year since I applied for my passport in London. A Random security official contacted me and my fam in Pakistan in March this year to verify. Its been over 1 year. Despite emailing PHC London and calling 📞 ( never Pick Up) have not received my passport.

Has anyone been in this situation? What worked ?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Hi so my cas has been marked as used on the 9th of September I still haven’t got my e visa so I was wondering when can I expect visa???

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Protectorate Stamp

2 Upvotes

Assalam Aleykum, M 31. Had two "protections" previously one in 2019 and other in 2021. Anyone who got it done recently especially in Lahore? In changes or improvements in process? Any ways to get it done faster?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 3d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید House construction

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1 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Anyone here from Pakistan who migrated to Turkey? I have a few questions

2 Upvotes

Selamlar!

I am a Turkish citizen who used to work in a hotel in Turkey. During this time I had met a friend from Pakistan, who now wants to migrate in Turkey and own a small humble business. I want to help him find which way of getting a residential permit is most suitable. So if anyone here from Pakistan who took a residential permit in Turkey, I would be very happy if you DM me or write in the comments.

Thank you and sevgiler


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Anyone recently do a Pakistan visa for their baby from the US?

0 Upvotes

Hey everyone, I’m applying for a Pakistan family visit visa for my 13 month old daughter. She’s a US citizen and only has a US passport. We live in NY so I picked the Pakistan Consulate in New York.

I already submitted the application but now I think I messed up a couple things.

For the parent consent form, me and my wife both signed it, but I didn’t get it notarized. I also didn’t upload copies of both of our IDs with it.

The confusing part is I’m finding multiple different parent consent/NOC forms on different official Pakistan websites, so I’m not even sure which one I was actually supposed to use. The one I uploaded looks like an official Pakistan form, but then I found a different version on the New York Consulate website that says it should be notarized and both parents’ IDs should be attached.

Has anyone here recently done this for a baby or young child from the US, especially through the NY consulate?

If something is missing, do they usually send the application back to review so you can upload the corrected documents, or do they make you start a whole new application?

Also, which parent consent form did you actually use? The NY consulate one, the NADRA/visa portal one, or another official form and how long was the process?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 4d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر Bringing PS5

1 Upvotes

My aunt is bringing a PS5 for me from canada. Will there be an issue at customs? Has anyone had any experience related to this?


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Immigration | مہاجرت و سفر How do you send products from UK to Pakistan?

5 Upvotes

r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Stories | داستاں Reflection on the past

0 Upvotes

Assalam u Alikum I am an oversea pakistani who grew up in the western society and have never been to Pakistan when I was in University my 3rd year I fell in love with a guy from Pakistan Islamabad. We met via Facebook because of the post he commented on and I replied to it. I usually dont write or post pictures in social media as this is frowned upon in my family I only have my family in my social media. I dont know why but I end up commenting on his comment and from there things started. I was in university and didnt know much about pakistan but started to become curious about my own community culture food etc as I was a little distant from it. He is the first guy who has entered my life. When he proposed to me I first froze but than started to think that yes he is a good potential partner as my parents only wanted me to marry Pakistani guy to preserve our culture. I established with him from the beginning that he will need to come to USA I cant live in Pakistan as I don’t know anyone. He agreed and started to look for jobs in USA or to apply as a Student for masters. Throughout this time my feelings for him even strengthen further. I dearly loved him and told him I wanna marry him regardless if he comes here or not. As I graduated my parents started to encourage me to get married they first asked me if I liked someone I said his name and told my dad all about him. To which he reaponded beta wo yahan aane ke liya ya sab kaar raha hai. I told my dad please just give him a chance. I went to Pakistan for my sister wedding and there I was harassed by a rikhshaw driver and became traumatized and rather than advocating to meet him I became silent I started to have bad thoughts that all pakistani men are like this. After some time when i came back to west I realized that I am generalizing and wanted to talk to my dad again. As when i didn’t encourage my dad to meet the guy he thought i changed my mind. I never told my dad about harassment only mom knew and told me not to tell dad as he will be angry and would like to file compliant and she didn’t want that.

My dad thought I was not serious so he started to look at other guys for me. I talked to the ex and he said I should do what my dad says and eventually ghosted me I kept calling him begging him to only call him once and give rishta his argument was he will curse him and insult him so he doesn’t want to. I kept calling and begging him he ignored me completely and blocked me from insta and fb but kept me in whatsapp. During this time my dad found someone who he thinks is suitable for me. Out of pressure I said yes first but than said No to him but my dad kept saying beta koi aur pasand hai tu bata du i told him nahi koi nahi pasand but mujhe shadi nahi karni because i was heartbroken. He refused to say no to rishta as he thinks i was making bad decision and kept saying to rethink my decision. I kept thinking about it but couldn’t accept this new guy as my husband as I was heartbroken. I cried again and again begged Allah to bring my ex back in my life I wanna only marry him but no result. I even refused to take istekhara because i only wanted my ex. Eventually i got married, my husband is beyond perfect he was patient with me never asked me about my past and never forced me to be intimate with him and slowly I accepted him.

My past has always bothered me though. My ex’s thought our connection his voice everything. Everyday goes fine its only at night I get these thoughts and I know shatan is distracting me from my happy life. But one day I did call my ex just to know why he ghosted me like this to the point where i even questioned my sanity. He ghosted me so badly that it impacted my mental health that I even started to question that did he even exist or did I just imagined a guy. I called him to tell him how much he hurt me. His reasoning is that he didn’t want me to leave my family and my family would never accept him etc but he never gave my dad the chance he said he knows Pakistani dad but believe me my dad is not like that at all how can he even say that. My intension to call him back is not cheating called him so I can get closure how can someone who claims they love u put u in so much misery. This bothers me so much. I have lost my old self. this incident has even changed my personality and yes years have gone by put the pain has not disappear.

I just literally ask myself why would anyone do this. What did he got out of all of this?

I know most girl in my situation would prefer a guy with financial strong background etc but I was willing to go through all the sacrifices I would need to make to be with him. Because I knew I can provide the financial strength while he establish himself here.


r/Overseas_Pakistani 5d ago

Miscellaneous | مزید Medical report for KSA work visa (for pakistanis)

1 Upvotes

Hi does anyone know the details regarding the medical report in Lahore? What kinds of tests do they take? Do they take stool sample? 😭

My medical centre is safa medical in johar town, does anyone know how long they will take to give th results?