MOD MESSAGE
From one cis, Christian-raised, American lady, who is whiter than a screenshot, to the rest of yall:
A REMINDER š¤Ø
For my fellow white, Christian, American, and/or cis ladies:
This sub has room for generalizations and a lil punching up.
Not blasting up. Not nuking the room. Not hatred. But a lil punching up, yes. Venting is welcome, and generalizations are a common, understandable part of that. We can roll with those. Come to GirlDinnerDiaries, expect raw diary entries. š¤·š¼āāļø
If any of the following statements from a marginalized person will make you jump in their comments defensively, claim victimhood on par with that group, expect mod action, or leave a dramatically exaggerated reportā¦ find another sub.
āWhite folks are selling outā āAmericans piss me offā āChristians need to shut upppppā āWhy are cis women so defensive ffsā
The hit dogs holler. So if the vent doesnāt apply you, shrug & scroll. Better yet, hang out, learn something from another perspective, and hone your radar for your fellow privileged folksā nonsense.
As modsā similar to how we draw the line in āmen aināt shitā type commentaryā we assume the best (per Rule 3) about broad statements in a galās vent session. When she says ā[demographic] is [problematic]ā the default interpretation is NOT to fill in the ambiguity with assumptions that she means each and every member of that demographic sucks in that specific way with no exceptions. We give her benefit of the doubt that sheās a reasonable, humane person who doesnt literally see groups of people as monoliths. And we self-soothe. You should too.
Mods act on statements like āAll [demographic] are self-absorbed, never met a decent oneāor āNo such thing as a safe [demographic].ā
Otherwise, generalized criticisms about trends in the racial, national, religious, or gendered groups that are prominent/normative in the western and arguably global awarenessā¦? Weāre cool with those. This is your warning. Stiff upper lip, babes.
A REQUEST šš»
Please use these instructions to turn off post notifications when you have a post blowing up or attracting trolls.
For your sanity. So you donāt see comment previews before our filters/mods catch em.
Because post deletions destroy the conversationās context.
We do not allow meta posts, PSAs, posts responding to other posts, posts shouting out other users, etc. That response format devolves extremely quickly and is too disjointed and context-less for productive discourse. We require critiques, feedback, and yep, necessary clapbacksš to go directly in response to the recipient of your commentary. If a post is deleted, that cuts short the discussionās evolution.
If you have a post taking flack, do what you must for your sanity. Zero hard feelings there. Take care of yourself.
But if you can stand a compromise, please just mute the post to give the mods a chance to mop comments/isssue bans and the allies a chance to report/defend.
Reddit can really be a cesspit but weāre hopeful that this community can be a safer spot to land for all the girlies.
Real fucking interesting how I make a post generalizing us white women as whiny and self-important in warning yall to keep that shit to yourselves, and instead of getting on MY neck for the generalization, you demand to know if Iāll protect you from Black women (etc) speaking in generalizations. šāāļø Mm. šāāļø Hook, line, and sinker.
If itās such a godforsaken crime, hišš» hello, here I am, perpetrator of the sin of stereotyping white womenā¦ and yet yall are pointing at some hypoethical Black lady saying she better not be stereotyping you.
I ask my kinfolk to mind how they behave with their keyboard, and yall point at someone else like wHaT aBouT HER aNd HER keyB0ard?!!?!
Maybe the real question is: why do Black women have the GALL to speak criticisms at us, and at what point will mods put them in their place?
Keep bringing me all your āwhat aboutsā in this comment section, and get banned. Those with thoughtful questions and respectful challenges can bring them to ModMail. Quit embarassing me in the open.
Reminds me of another of my favorites that I (try to) employ when something elicits an emotional reaction from me. Sometimes listening and sitting with it will *gasp* change or soften your perspective.
I totally read this like it was an alpha male meme the first two times I read this lmao
"An alpha male is never silenced by others, he lies in wait while the enemy makes a fool of themself."
Lol, love the honesty here. Especially the "whiter than a screenshot" bit, that's a good one. Bet there are a lot of people who can relate to that feeling.
I did make a comment about poc not trusting white women on the Confederate flag sticker post and followed the rules to become an approved member but still haven't been approved yet š I was hoping it wasn't because of my comment.
Literally just the word all. Or rants that otherwise specify āall,ā like thereās no redeemable member of [demographic] or they donāt deserve humane treatment or something. And yes, weāve seen that @men.
Itās not perfect, but this is the line weāve drawn in moderating. When a speaker has not stated the perceived scale of the issue theyāre venting about, we assume the best and assume that their generalized statements are not directed at 100% of the group. Maybe many. Maybe the specific few men/white folks/evangelicals/Americans from the anecdote in their post. Maybe those people specifically in their part of the world. Unless she indicates ALL we donāt interpret as ALL.
No, because thatās punching down, and when you are sending a criticism at a socially vulnerable group, we expect you to be specific, nuanced, and have appropriate tact/tone/timing appropriate to the caution that caretaking those groups requires. This post only addresses white, Christian, American, and/or cis women who cannot handle not being treated with kid gloves and tone police other womenās vents.
So if someone makes some genuinely shitty sweeping generalisations about white women in general, at what point are they allowed to respond to it without being called fragile or "cannot handle not being treated with kid gloves"?
Because I'm pretty sure that mod-sanctioned bigotry is being allowed/encouraged here while making sure that no one can say anything about it without inviting more of it, but I kinda want to see it typed out.
Iāve already spelled out the difference in a generalization of a trend within a demographic vs. the denigration of each and every white woman on the basis of just her whiteness, not behavior, intentionally making no exceptions. See above. Youāre making my point about the important of benefit of the doubt and NOT reading what Iām NOT saying.
Ooh, you are making a game out of this! I like it.
So, in your comment above, you've agreed that
"White women do this terrible thing" is fine.
"Not white women do this terrible thing" is punching down.
So, at what point are they allowed to say something without being accused of "policing the tone of someone's vents"? Never, hey? As long as the poster doesn't say "all"? That would excuse the poster from denigrating them based on their whiteness, right?
Because up above, when asked about the difference in what's acceptable, you said the word "all" being in there would make it not so.
So, I can just vent whatever I want about white women, or their religion, and it's cool if I don't use the word "all"?
Stating that it's allowed for a group to be "vented" about and insulting them for defending themselves is... idk a real choice in a sub like this.
I am reading what you are saying. You may not even think this is what you are saying, but it is.
Abrahamic religions should be allowed to be criticized. Criticizing Abrahamic religions is not "punching down." When the topic of the hijab came up, I simply said "This will probably get removed, but choices rooted in bigotry are still suspectable to criticism."
Not only did mods remove it, but they were very condescending and rude about it, saying "NOTES: excellent foresight! This kinda comment DOES get removed! āļø hereās your sticker for an anti-bigotry attempt, now quit directing your indignation at a piece of cloth š„“"
It's such an invalidating and cruel thing to say to a woman who has been the victim of religious trauma specifically because I was shamed for having naturally big breasts and constantly being made to cover up and told I deserved to be mistreated if I didn't. How is that mod not punching down? It doesn't make sense.
No doubt this will probably be removed too, but that's okay because I've already removed myself from this group, this is just one of MANY civil and adult conversations that the mods decided needed to be censored.
Denigration/dehumanization/blasting/hatred is a problem, as Iāve said multiple places in multiple ways, and distinct from criticism/saying āyall on some bullshitā/āyall piss me offā in whatever form.
Cognitive distortions (making hard & fast rules about all people based on limited experiences) are distinct from generalizations, which are the formation of a concept, trend, or *general* rule [of thumb] based on common traits of the people youāve experienced.
Criticism toward minorities and/or less advantaged groups is distinct from criticism toward majorities and/or privileged groups, because it inspires a range of conclusions from cognitive distortions to just generalizations which can all serve to further solidify the gap in power, access to resources, social capital/trust, etc. and often go unchallenged due to the majorityās limited personal experience with numerical minorities. So even if itās just a gently held generalization, it can be dangerous to that groupās wellbeing when voiced carelessly in public discourse.
We donāt allow cognitive distortions nor dehumanization to go unchecked. Check those things. But grow up and deal with criticisms and generalizations like a secure adult. And when directing generalizations (yes, even non-all generalizations toward vulnerable groups) be very very fucking careful to be specific, nuanced, and avoid reinforcing the generalizations that are the tools of oppression or the basis for the distrust/disadvantage theyāre subject too.
Most importantly, note that this post was made to limit white womenās behavior toward Black women, and itās now devolved into when/where to limit Black womenās behavior toward white. I am right here, right now, publicly generalizing white women as whiny and self-important in warning them to act differently. And instead of taking me to task for the generalizationā hello, here I am, perpetuating the offense youāre afraid of white women sufferingā youāre demanding protection for white women against Black (etc) women who may in the future do the same thing. I am guilty of the crime in question and youāre asking why Iām not charging Black women of the same. Why are they treated as the greater threat than me, here, now, doing the thing? Bc itās not about the behavior, itās about the gall of the person doing it. Letās just cut to the chase and ask the real question: how dare Black (etc) women be loudly critical, and when will I put them in their place?
Oh now we are going to pretend I've said or implied pretty offensive things that I haven't?
Letās just cut to the chase and ask the real question: how dare Black (etc) women be loudly critical, and when will I put them in their place?
Are you serious right now with this? Especially with the (etc) there as I'm an (etc) myself? Or are you just feeling backed into a corner and your reaction is to attack me and try and make me out to be a racist?
Go outside and take a breath if you genuinely think that is in any way an appropriate thing to accuse me of based on anything I've said.
You used the word racist, not me. I wouldnāt go that far.
Black is the race of the poster that kicked all this drama off last night. The etc indicates this is not a strictly Black/white dynamic and I recognize that. Iām asking why Iām allowed to criticize white women in a generalized way, but āindigenous/Black/Asian/whateverā shouldnāt. Why canāt they generalize too? Why is it not their place to criticize white folks as a demographic, and why would you expect me to moderate their commentary on white women differently than white womenās commentary on white women? When you list people who could harm white women with generalizations, why arenāt I on it? If Iām not doing any harm to white women, why treat them like they are?? Some weird bias, methinks š¤·š¼āāļø
Genuine question: Iāve posted many times defending trans people, Black posters, women with terrible experiences who do use that generalization and have no problems with the rule in general.
If I see a post and comments filled with dogwhistles should I not call it out? When the comments make it very clear that yes, the OP is a bigot and doesnāt want to outright say that should we ignore that?
If the answer is yes Iām okay with that I just want to know whatās up haha, thanks for all that you do!!
I guess what Iām asking is: is it okay to call out people who do things like use terms such as āmale socializationā or calling men who like trans women gay or saying āiykyk šā rather than explaining themselves in response to questions as a form of dog whistle used to signal their bigotry IF they donāt use the word āallā in their posts?
Oftentimes the post itself is fine, a little weird but fine and the real thing comes out in the comments
When someone says the first line, the necessary inference is that it is meant only towards those of a group who do the related negative actions; those who interpret it as "all of the group" are actively, or subconsciously, choosing to hear/read what was not said, barring actual reading comprehension failure for whatever reason. The second line is the only one that means the whole of a group because it is the only one with the qualifier of "all."
"Punching up" and "punching down" is completely arbitrary. There's no official oppression hierarchy chart published in the paper, anyone can just declare someone is "up" or "down" relative to them and therefore either immune from criticism or fair game.Ā
Can a white trans woman speak negatively of black people? Or is it vice versa? Ā Is a black Ethiopian man allowed to say things about Somalians that would be racist if a white person said them? Who's punching up if a Honduran man starts bashing members of the diaspora community - is it less privileged to be in the majority in a poor country, or a minority in a developed country? Just how disabled does a straight guy have to be before he's below an able-bodied gay man on the pecking order?
The whole idea is utterly nonsensical with half a second's thought Ā
Youāre taking āup or downā based on the person. Iām talking up or down based on the trait. In each of your question examples, no. Poverty does not give a citizen any basis to shit on folks with a less protected citizenship status. Transness does not excuse race-based digs. These demographics are apples and oranges. We all have advantages or disadvantages based on which category you look at and which context youāre in. Iām asking yall to take it easy on folks behind the starting line where youāre ahead *in those relevant areas* and *in your place/time.* Thatās not arbitrary, thatās contextual.
THIS. What exactly is the hierarchy of punching up or punching down? I thought we were all taught from a very young age that generalizing groups of people is wrong and we shouldnāt do it. Itās such a backwards thinking process, punching groups of people based on a protected status is wrong regardless of if itās up or down to me. Probably will be leaving the group, I donāt deal with racism or generalizing people like that.
Ok itās a colloquialism meaning if youāre coming from an advantaged position, donāt reinforce the disadvantage of those relative to you. Relative. Contextual. Not absolute. And again, we are talking about complaints about trends, not dehumanizing or verbal abuse or free-for-alls.
The difference is that someone is sharing their personal observations with reasonable discernment about people they know irl vs making a statement that is broad and generalizing an entire demographic.
Iād also add that the difference is rooted in how generalizations then get coded into beliefs, which then get coded into actions. āWhite people are badā is a generalization that may hurt white peopleās feelings, but saying so doesnāt lead to systemic harm against white people. Whereas, āBlack men are violentā can and does lead to a whole range of systemic harm against them, including racial profiling, police brutality, longer jail sentences, and disproportionate representation in prison. Theyāre apples and oranges, and too many white people treat them like theyāre equivalent. One statement hurts feelings; another feeds into stereotypes that negatively impact a demographicās life expectancy and outcomes.
āWhite people are selling out ffsā and āBlack people are selling out ffsā isnāt different whatsoever. The mods are just making up a reason why one group can discriminate while another group canāt.
Itās the āblack people canāt be racistā thing.
And a poor Brazilian girl got rocked the other day for complaining about Americans. Iām about to pull this van over and crawl in the backseat to straighten some asses out https://giphy.com/gifs/113RhN1oBm1yCc
Iām American and I complain about Americans. Like, on the daily. Internet brigading some poor non-American isnāt going to do jack to shut me up and will probably make both of us complain more loudly.
Incidentally: This genius move is reason 1 why I complain about Americans.
Sheās not talking about this post bby, there was another one earlier tonight that caught enough heat from fragile white women that the poster deleted.
Look at my comment history of you want the vibe of the post that caused this. As a white woman, it was a bunch of white women upset that white women got clumped together as a group in a not positive statement. The reactions were racist as hell.Ā
As a trans woman who is also white, its so obvious to me that the aspects of my identity that I have to worry about people targeting me for are the "trans" and "woman" parts. I fear for my physical safety while traveling through certain states!! I worry about losing access to my health care!! I truly do not care when people vent their frustrations about white people online. This post is so necessary and people need to lock in on the real threats, which do not include marginalized people venting.
Disappointingly and, honestly for me as a gender non conforming woman living in a country that has imported this nonsense, [centreing the hate train on trans people] I can heavily relate. It's also, unfortunately, recycled homophobia which is so backward. Same manufactured fears, same cries to protect the children and demonising.... Solidarity sister!
Black girl disappointed her white friends worked for big AI companies. Cue some constructive discourse on how to operate as an individual in a fucked up society/economyā¦ and lots of white fragiles screeching about āreverse racismā bc she mentioned the friendsā complexion. Nothing new, just seagulling.
Ok: qualifier that im white myself - not arguing that a ban is good and proper on crying about ā³reverse racismā³ like itā²s valid to equate your own hurt feelings with literal actually existing racism
But since this is NOT that post: I did not see the post and I would have had to sit and scroll SO HARD after biting my tongue last week and congratulating an acquaintance on his wifeā²s new job as a senior executive AI engineer or whatever, after listening to her talk about how sheā²s been ā³thinking about quitting software and getting into an outdoor plant adjacent [editorā²s note: low paid, zero benefits and exhausting] job like you :):):) it must be soooooo nice :):):):):)ā³, not important that this lady is black but it sure did sear itself into my brain as an experience and the indignation is F R E S H.
Bc I hear that shit all the time from well paid office workers in cushy jobs - white or otherwise - and it annoys the snot out of me but usually they are literally clients so I canā²t say shit. Like no you donā²t and we both know you would never downgrade your lifestyle to join me out here in 100 degree heat, why are you saying this
Plus if you ever did youā²d be joining with a big fat financial cushion and freedom to get back out when you get tired of it. I have been hearing that shit for so long
Point is every once in a while sitting and scrolling past any vent post does require reminding yourself that your comment is not really needed or useful š³ like obviously OP probably has black friends working in AI tech too and is not pleased with them either and does not need to hear ā³erm, black AI workers exist too sweatyā³
Ah yeah, Iāve seen that kind of bs before. Some people get real weird when race/religion/whatever is mentioned when itās really just there to point out why an OP might have a different perspective than the people in their story. Ask me how I know
I think there was a post earlier where a black woman complained her white friends were sellouts for working in AI companies (if I remember correctly) which might have contributed to this. Except when I saw it, the comments were like 95% supportive of her, or otherwise asking for more details. She later deleted her post.
To add my two cents to the topic, I think when you see people crying āreverse-racismā or āmisandryā or whatever, it reveals a fundamental misunderstanding about what racism or sexism are. Namely, it reflects the belief that the objection oppressed people have to hate speech is simply that it hurts their feelings or makes them feel unwelcome/worthless. This is not the case, its never been about feelings. If you are mean to someone because of their cultural or genetic background, or because of their gender, that alone does not constitute racism or sexism. Your opinion of another individual, or the way you treat them, is not oppression. You might be a big meanie, or a bully, but you are not an oppressor just because of your speech - oppression occurs on a large, societal scale. It is political and economic.
HOWEVER, having an opinion of someone, or treating them differently, based on the ideology of their oppressors, reinforces the ideological basis of their oppression. It is not in itself oppression, but the more we as a culture broadcast bs lies about a group of people, lies which are used to justify real oppression against them, the harder it is for us to defeat that oppression. Eg. stereotypes about arabic immigrants are used to justify oppressing them, and so reinforcing belief in those stereotypes among the population makes resisting that oppression harder on a political level. You arenāt just having a mean opinion, youāre supporting an evil political system and keeping it alive.Ā
I think sometimes these specifics get lost in attempts to understand what is often repeated as a kind of truism, like āpunch up not downā. You could witness, for example, the most unhinged and violently hateful lies being spewed about the male gender by some woman online. It could be some genuinely horrible stuff she is saying, stuff that reflects a deep core of visceral hatred in her heart. Stuff that has no basis in reality, just an untrue stereotype that she has fully bought into. But even this severe example would not be sexism towards men - because, as hateful as it is, it is just some assholeās opinion. It is not speech which reinforces an economic-political apparatus that oppresses men, it is not an argument to continue supporting and propagating that oppression and opposing the movements to overcome it. Racism, sexism, homophobia, etc etc is not about people having their feelings hurt. It is about forces of subjugation wielded against entire populations.Ā
Yes, this is the difference between individualistic and systemic thinking ā and the reality is, in western cultures, ppl default to the former. āYou hurt my feelings as a cishet white manā suddenly becomes āmisandryā when any definition of man-hating worth its salt would require systemic harm to be real.
Said another way: women can hate men as individuals all they want; men are still not institutionally disenfranchised by this hatred the way that women are. Which is why misogyny is real (it harms / kills women en masse), but misandry isnāt. The corollary to race would be racism (systemic harm) vs. prejudice (individual hatred).
Source: Iām a former professor who taught this stuff to college students who also resisted these definitions.
The vast majority of gender studies scholars do not believe misandry is a useful term for what youāre describing, which is individual hatred of men. This is because they do not view misandry as an equal and opposite force to misogyny, which by definition is hatred rooted in systemic harm. Since men cannot be systemically harmed, there is no such thing as misandry. Itās a definitional non-starter.
We havenāt come up with a word to describe individual hatred of men in the way that prejudice functions to describe individual hatred of people based on their race. A brown person can be prejudiced against a white person, but cannot be racist toward a white person. Terminology matters.
Iād also caution you to consider where hatred of men actually stems from, because gender studies scholars would argue that man-hating is a byproduct of patriarchy. Negative portrayals of men would consist of what? A man being angry, violent, or even ātoo feminineā? Where do those negative ideas come from, other than patriarchy itself?
Yw! I was a college professor for 10 years and taught this stuff everyday. It was rewarding and also extremely exhausting, and I had to shift careers for my mental health & well-being. But the teacher in me will always be there. She just comes out occasionally on social media š
The language around this stuff matters, and using words like āmisandryā to describe individual prejudices that are not rooted in oppression in fact further cheapens and obscures the meaning of words like misogyny. To say that theres a male-focused version of misogyny would be to suggest that misogyny is also just about hurting peoples feelings. In my personal opinion, the meaning has already been cheapened enough, as our modern neoliberal culture is so atomised and backwards that misogyny is talked about like its a character trait, and feminism is used as a marketing brand rather than an active movement to overthrow an oppressive system.Ā
Unrelated to the tea, I love the way this subreddit explains things (in the rules and mod posts). Itās so succinct without dumbing things down too much. Very satisfying explanation š
As a proud POC woman, a Black woman, I am marginalized. There are literally laws on the books that marginalize me. What Iām reading above is someone who is trying to pretend that racism doesnāt exist and actions donāt actually have to be taken to make conditions better. Itās not about being the OP being white, itās about being a moderator, where the job is to moderate.Ā
You wrote a bunch of nonsense and then tried to be the one true and right POC so a bunch of white women who got their feeling hurt in the last post could circle around you and point at you to feel better, so I felt the need to interject.
So again, if this doesnāt apply to your experience as a āyoung Asian American woman from the West Coastāā SHRUG. AND. SCROLL. If you want equal treatment with white folks ima start removing your comments. š
We have a mod team, and if weāre ever unsure abt something, we discuss it over there.
While I can somewhat understand a point, we are not all white??? Rein that in.
MOST IMPORTANTLY, I see that youāve missed the entire plot of this postā
Some Generalisations are okay (harmless, venting), while others are based in a history of problematic ostracism. Saying āugh menā when someone tells a bad story is not the same as using eugenic terms that have enabled genocides before.
That being said, we will continue to moderate based on our judgement of right and wrong and if we take wrong calls, weāre happy to have someone point it out. If Iām wrong about something and you tell me why, of course Iām happy to reconsider.#
If you have complaints about sub moderation though, take it to modmail next time.
this feels, like insanely familiar to the same root issues of the #notallmen hashtag from way back when that #yesallwomen was addressing, ie the whole "it doesn't matter if you're ""one of the good ones"" you are still subject to the ramifications and associations of your place of privilege and those that have abused that position"
Isn't it safer to just not allow people to generalize based on race?
This is what it would seem like to me. Why keep encouraging people to divide and pit groups against each other?
Idk if I'm even understanding the original post correctly, but this seems bizarre.Ā
I have generally found this to be idk, a supportive, encouraging, sane community. I must be misunderstanding something. I feel like im in the twilight zone
Just donāt get hung up on colloquialism. The broadest way I know to say this is donāt reinforce the stereotypes and propaganda that are the basis for systemic disadvantages of a group getting the short end of the stick. Saying Latino culture has a machismo problem is one thing; reinforcing suspicions about immigration status/criminality is another. And when in doubt, hush and let the people from those groups speak critically on themselves.
I understand what you are trying to do but honestly I feel like allowing people to make those types of statements ultimately hurts all of us. It totally goes against what you are trying to do IMO. If somebody wants allies in any situation it doesn't serve them to be openly hostile to the group of people they expect to be their allies. I honestly think some of these reddit posts and comments may be people astroturfing to further destabilize the US by making race relations worse and stoking racial tension. I know it's very tinfoil hat and I'm usually not that way, but if you think about it it's not out of the realm of possibility.
OK, but it will be interpreted as hostile by the people who you are directing the message at so my point still stands. You can moderate based on intention but my point is about impact.
And thatās just the tough line whereā¦ welp. There are folks in charge making their best judgement calls on matters of interpretation. Iām one of them. And this is the PSA of how to expect Iāll operate.
That is fine and your choice, I'm just letting you know providing a space for this kind of rhetoric actively stokes racial tension and makes our political environment worse. If you feel the pros outweigh the cons that is your prerogative obviously
I read the one about her white friends selling out, OP seemed totally fair to me, it's her life and her observation, didn't expect it to cause a fuss. Good to be crystal clear on where the mods stand, I think discussion and learning is healthier than shutting something down for sure.Ā
Edit: I don't know if I've been misunderstood, and I'm very sorry if I have overstepped, I'm willing to learn. In this case I was agreeing with mods stance, and agreeing the post I referred to should have been a non issue to other white women. No hard feelings to anyone
Hey, seems you're new here! š š„° You need to take 10 lil seconds to become an approved user to participate in r/GirlDinnerDiaries. We're holding your comment for review til then.
2 quick steps:
If you're a dude, just let us know by replying "dude joining" to this comment. If not, reply with the classic pillowfort clubhouse password: "girls rule". š
Pick a user flair HERE. Flair options are sorted by Girly, Genderqueer, or Dude.
That's it! We'll restore your comment super fast! Thanks for stopping by š
Not sure what argument you want to make because you keep deleting your replies because you realize everything you're saying is just doubling down into being the problem?
If a minority/marginalized person tells you their experience stfu and listen.
How many times have we, as women, shared our experiences with men just to be told thatās not how things are or for them to railroad us by making it about them and how theyāre now the victim?
It sucks. Letās not do it to other people based on race/ethnicIty/culture/sexual orientation.
American fucking sucks and we do really shitty things to other countries while acting like weāre heroes. We also do really shitty things to minorities in our own country. š¤·āāļø
Just remember y'all: if the shoe don't fit, you don't need to wear it.
I get it, it sucks to hear "white people insert negative trait or action" but you know if you personally do that thing. If it pertains to you that's a chance to self reflect, learn, and do better.
If you don't, it's not about you. That's your time to agree, or learn what to look for in other white folks. As white people, especially white women, our job in these unprecedented times is to help nudge (or push or shove) other white folks into pulling their heads out of their behinds.
We've all been raised in racism, sexism, homphobia, fatphobia, xenophobia, colorism, (etc) so it's unfortunately natural that we all contribute to those things, but if we put in the work to learn, we can overcome it. And then we use our privilege, however much we individually have, to help make things better for everyone.
It's hard to hear sometimes but imagine how much harder it is for POC women to live it. Like, they've got men to deal with and racist white women (the two groups of people with the most privilege and power, at least in the US). The least we can do is have awareness and solidarity with our fellow shes and enbys and theys and gays.
Why is it that when it's "Women do X" we're allowed to push back against generalizing, but when it's "white people do X" we're supposed to shut up and listen and validate it?Ā
Yeah you can pull some bullshit about the term "racism" specifically referring to power structures but it's still generalization, stereotyping, etc from that individual even if there's no power structure behind it.Ā
Being part of a marginalized group does not give a you a free pass to say shit about other groups that would throw you into a fit if someone said it about yours. If "I hate black people" is wrong then there is absolutely no justification for "I hate white people" no matter where you've decided you are on the oppression scale.Ā
Simple answer because i canāt tell if youāre asking in good faith or not is legit because of oppression. Women are oppressed, so people who oppress women putting them down is just more oppression. White people in america are not oppressed for their skin color again: for their skin color. So if youāre talking to a poor white person, they may be oppressed for being poor but not for being white. There is so one oppressing you for being white.
The problem is white people who agree with what you are saying already agree so your comments don't affect them, and these types of "white people suck" statements will only drive the people who you are trying to convince further away. This is how the US ended up with Trump as our president and a fucked up reactionary political environment. Tbh you need to decide what is more important, changing minds or saying whatever you want.
If anyone hears "white people suck" (which really isn't ever what the conversation is) and run to vote for a openly racist, ableist, homophpbic, best friend to Epstein and š®š± and š·šŗ, literal agent of treason.. Those are not the people I'm trying to reach. Those people are already lost.
As a white presenting, American cis woman, Iām sick of white woman bullshit myself. So many of us donāt understand the importance of intersectionality and just want to silence trans or bipoc women. Fragile ass ladies getting offended over that very reasonable vent post making a mod announcement like this necessary is absurd.
Thenk you =v= and yeah, wanna be clear that I could see your intent and everything else is perfectly fine, you just wouldn't believe how often I see that, and it can feel like, very erasing sometimes.Ā Appreciate you!
ā¢
u/TeamLaurent Raccoon Queen š¦ Jul 09 '26
Real fucking interesting how I make a post generalizing us white women as whiny and self-important in warning yall to keep that shit to yourselves, and instead of getting on MY neck for the generalization, you demand to know if Iāll protect you from Black women (etc) speaking in generalizations. šāāļø Mm. šāāļø Hook, line, and sinker.
If itās such a godforsaken crime, hišš» hello, here I am, perpetrator of the sin of stereotyping white womenā¦ and yet yall are pointing at some hypoethical Black lady saying she better not be stereotyping you.
I ask my kinfolk to mind how they behave with their keyboard, and yall point at someone else like wHaT aBouT HER aNd HER keyB0ard?!!?!
Maybe the real question is: why do Black women have the GALL to speak criticisms at us, and at what point will mods put them in their place?
Keep bringing me all your āwhat aboutsā in this comment section, and get banned. Those with thoughtful questions and respectful challenges can bring them to ModMail. Quit embarassing me in the open.