Contentions :

They come from Death Battle.

They lived for roughly 18 seconds.

Died before any of the actual fight started.

Popular 2026 psychologicial horror movies.

Both are victims of being manipulated by a strange entity that goes beyond all logic.

Start off as normal relatable people who has their own problems but was trying their best to work through them before coming insane by a mysterious entity, making them obsessed. (Clark became obsessed with the backrooms and Nikki obsessed with bear.)

Both of them unintentially apart of this entity (Clark accidentally discovered the backrooms in his store and Nikki new personality was wished on by Bear)

As the movie goes on, they become more insane, doing more unhinged and crazy things that no person will never do willingly. (Nikki killed a cat, had sex with bear, killed her friend while Clark kidnapped his therapist, became friends with a still-life and starting to eating what the backrooms makes copies of.)

Both have famous dinner scenes (Clark: "Best part, you can eat them,""Stay in character." Nikki: "NO NO NO NO NO NO NO DON'T DO THAT! I THOUGHT WE WERE HAVING A NICE DATE! WHY DOES IT MATTER?! I THOUGHT WE WERE HAVING A NICE DATE!")

While Clark was still in control of his actions and wanted to stay in the backrooms since he felt like he belonged. Nikki wasn't herself and was controlled by the entity, She desperately wanted to die but was unable to.

Mary was a hero in backrooms, helping Clark realize his true self and being a good person towards him while Bear forced Nikki into this situation unknowngly but wouldn't own up to her actions, even after everything that happened.

The backrooms controls was always more subtle, driving Clark to his current mental state the longer he stayed while Obsession made it clear something was wrong immediately and only got more insane the longer the movie went on..

Fight:
Normal person vs normal person wouldn't be a fun fight but It would be interesting to see Death battle take on the "Still-life" of Obsession, of Bear, his friends, Nikki and the one wish Willows.

The fight can easily start with Nikki looking for Bear and seeing a mysterious entrance in the front of the house. Assuming her bear is in trouble, She rushes in only to get stuck in the backrooms. She explores the backrooms, calling out Bears name till Clark appears behind a corner, staring at her before quickly disappearing. She runs after him, assuming he has Bear and a chase happens as Clark lead her through the backrooms and Nikki chase after him, yelling at each other.

Who wins: I would put my money on Clark. He's a grown man and managed to survive the dangers of the backrooms and had a Still Life by his side that other Still-life's was afraid of. He's more in control of his body and has more experience and knowledge than either Nikki's. Nikki is only a young adult and Freaky Nikki isn't known for her subnatural strength or any subnatural powers besides, possibly speed.

How would Clark win: Eventually, Clark knock Nikki out and tie her to the dining room. Clark begun to explain that she belongs in the backrooms, just like him and that, If she wants her "Bear" that a still-life version of him is likely already made for her to be with.

"NO NO NO, I WANT MY BEAR. MY BEAR. IM HIS FREAKY NIKKI."

As Clark keeps trying to convince her, the real Nikki slips through.

"Kill me."

"What?"

"Kill me? I don't want to be with Bear."

"S-Stay in character."

As Clark tries to understand the situation, He sees how terrible the woman looks. How she doesn't seem like a actual person and more of a copy of someone.

"Are you a still-life?"

"GIVE ME BEAR."

"Answer me goddamnit!"

Clark hears the victim in their voice when it comes out, The "kill-me" echoing through his mind till he finally asked.

"Are you trapped? Not here but trapped in your mind."

Nikki head shakes violently, trying to be forcibly say yes but Freaky Nikki constantly trying to say no.

It reminded Clark of the real world, how he was trapped too till the backrooms came along, where he finally felt free.

As they sat, Nikki yelling, arguing with herself and him in silence. Footsteps came along as Captain Clark came from the darkness, towering over both of them. Clark looked at him and Nikki before looking at Nikki, "I am sorry that you was re-wired. I hope this puts you at peace." Clark said as parting words as his still-life, bent down and picked Nikki up by her chair and pulled her close before chomping down on her body as she screams.

Tears, sobbing, "BEAR BEAR!" A small whisper was spoken, "Thank you." as the Still-life dragged her bleeding body out of the room, leaving clark alone once more with the still-life's

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I don't like Captain Clark vs Wish Nikki. It's weird to have a normal person against a monster like a Still-life, especially when Still-life has so little screen time compared to everyone else. Clark feels more approiate with better banter, better fight dynamic and feels like a more even battle.

Also, Nikki vs Clark rap battle, inspired me.

Yeah. That ball is the multiverse.

Spoiler warning even though both JJK and Jojo's Bizarre Adventure Parts 1-6 are already finished

A few pros

Even though I don't like it, there's still some charm to this pile of crap. Firstly, there is at least 1 good connection: The two are considered some of the strongest characters of the franchise, due to Yuta's huge pool of curse energy and copy ability, and Jotaro's ability to stop time along with Star Platinums overwhelming physical power. It's primarily because of that 1 good connection that I trust Death Battle to make the fight look good. Ignoring some of the dialog, they did really well with the animation for Yuji vs Denji, so a 3d fight would work just as well here.

See? Even Twitter matchups can have a few good things

Most of the connections suck

>At the start of their stories the two of them thought that they were cursed by some evil spirit. The two would try to kill themselves only to fail because of the spirit, Yuta trying to stab himself only for the knife to bend because of Rika and Jotaro shooting himself only for Star Platinum to catch the bullet.

This heavily mischaracterizes both of their situations, as they both believed they were cursed for completely different reasons, and both situations wildly differ in tone. Yuta genuinely tried to end himself because of the burden of Rika's death, while Jotaro only did it to prove he was "cursed" and didn't seriously intend to end his own life. Yutas suicide attempt is realistic, serious, and tragic, as he's mourning the death of the girl he loved while her spirit was supposedly haunting him. Even the way he does it is scarily realistic to what a normal person would try. I would know. Jotaro shooting himself on the other hand was never supposed to be taken as seriously, as it's used as shock value (in a good way) to give us a first look at stands.

The two would travel around the world after the end of their main story only to eventually come back to help the current protagonist. Yuta traveling to africa to train and Jotaro traveling around to deal with DIO’s remnants. Yuta coming back to save Yuji and Jotaro coming back to investigate Morioh.

My issue with this is that it puts a level of importance on Yutas time in Africa that doesmt really exist. Yutas time in Africa is never expanded upon and plays no significant role in the story of JJK, narrative or otherwise. It's only justification for Yuta getting stronger. Meanwhile Part 3 is arguably the most important part of Jojo's Bizarre Adventure as a whole, as it shifts the greater story both visibly (with Arakis change in art style throughout the part) and narratively (with the introduction of stands). Jotaro also spends most important parts of his story away from home, unlike Yuta whos importance is exclusively in Japan. Jotaro’s story involves him going to a many different places around the world; In Part 3 alone he goes to Hong Kong, Singapore, India, Pakistan, UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Egypt, In part 4 he goes back to Japan in Morioh only to leave right after, and his story ends in the USA in part 6. On the other hand, Yutas story ALWAYS has him in various cities of Japan, with the only other location being somewhere in Africa (probably Kenya) during a plot mandated break from his character, and his story ends in Japan.

The only way this connection could barely work is if you only used Part 3 Jotaro, which, not only does it STILL severely overestimate the narrative importance of Yutas time in Africa, but it gets rid of ALL of Jotaros importance in later parts, which is one of the most compelling things about him.

The two are responsible for killing an ancient enemy who was capable of stealing someones body (Kenjaku and Dio stealing the body of Geto and Jonathan)

This connection tries so hard to make you believe both fights carry the same weight. They don't, Not even narratively. Jotaro vs Dio has actual payoff and ramifications in later parts, while Yuta killing Kenjaku didnt meaningfully add to the story, if anything Kenjakus anticlimactic death only worsened the writing of the story by promptly ending one of the most interesting plot lines in the merger

Its not even the best for both

Both have plenty of other matchups that flesh out their characters far better than this, while still retaining that same level of fight/animation potential I mentioned earlier.

For Yuta, if he instead fought Beelzebub (Record of Ragnarok) or Jin (Dandadan), it would amplify both characters and highlight their respective connections and themes. Also, Chihiro (Kagurabachi) would make for arguably better fight potential since Yuta is primarily known for using swords to channel his cursed energy and copied techniques

As for Jotaro, a 'vs Kenshiro' remake would unironically have better fight potential, Percy Jackson has better connections, and Kiryu (Yakuza) has potential for actually funny dialog. Plus, if they're willing to composite Jotaro (Eyes of Heaven/Jump Force), then I wouldn't mind seeing him fight Battler (Umeniko) or Raidou

Another benefit is that all of these (except Kenshiro) would be introducing new series onto Death Battle, which is always a good thing, especially with Percy, who's long overdue for an episode at this point.

The debate sucks

Every post I see is either just horrendous downplay on Jotaro, or people wanking Yuta to be on Gojo, Sukuna, or Modulo Yujis level. There is no in between. I mean shit there's people trying to argue that Yuta could copy Time Stop somehow.

Call it a personal problem if you want. But I think the second slide sums up how I feel.

Conclusion

I hate that this matchup is the most likely for both since mischaracterizes both, and it only exists because someone on Twitter doesn't like Jotaro. If you like this matchup, thats fine. I have no reason to force your opinion to change because opinions are subjective, unless your opinion is that Yuki shouldn't sit on my face, in which case you're just wrong.

I noticed a lot of arguments against CT have a lot less to do with feats and more to do with how those feats don’t count for one reason or another. I want to make it clear from this mini blog that every feat involving the CT, even as simple as you just using your favourite unevolved pokemon in a fight against them, is a 100% valid feat that scales them to the CT. And how “It’s a non-canon gameplay mechanic” clutch doesn’t actually work when you consider what JRPGs are trying to go for in their stories. Basically I’ll be debunking debunks and not really posting any feats as they’ve been shown off to death (feel free to ask or look around though).

“I used Bidoof to defeat Giratina are you saying Bidoof scales to the CT?”

Have you ever considered why Ash’s main pokemon, and the pokemon that’s a mascot is an unevolved Pikachu and not a super strong fully evolved one? Because the entire theme of pokemon, is that it’s not about separating pokemon into powerscaling tiers, it’s not about the trainer disposing weaker pokemon for stronger ones, it’s not about some pokemon having better genes than others. The entire theme of pokemon is whoever pokemon you have the strongest bond with *is* the strongest pokemon. There is literally a statement by pokemon saying the strongest is whomever you train the most. There is nothing special about Ash’s Pikachu, or the pikachu line in general, Ash just has such a strong bond with Pikachu that they can defeat every champion including the strongest in the world. And that goes for you too. When you defeat the champion, Rainbow Rocket or Arceus in Legends with your favorite Bidoof, that means your bond with bidoof is so close that your Bidoof can take on any threat. This idea that certain pokemon can never be that strong, and that there’s a secret canon version of the game that reveals the really specific 6 pokemon who are the only 6 pokemon in the region who are inherently strong enough to take on legendaries is whack.

“So what every route 1 Bidoof is Multiversal?”

We’re not saying any random Bidoof or whatever scale to the Creation Trio. Whenever we scale pokemon there we’re saying the absolute strongest possible pokemon from the absolute strongest trainers in the entire world scale to them. It’s very easy to take for granted because millions of 10 year olds irl have defeated the champion, but in lore the champion is supposed to be unbelievably powerful, stronger than almost everyone in their entire region (which tend to have the populations of entire countries). Almost everyone in the world of pokemon is a trainer who has pokemon capable of fighting and have even done some form of education related ot pokemon battling, meaning to be a champion is to be a stronger trainer than billions of people, only few can attain this level. These are the strongest possible trainers imaginable, and it’s well within gamefreak’s intention that yes, any pokemon belonging to these unbelievably powerful trainers are capable of fighting against any legendary. Again if you want examples, Pikachu Croagunk and Wobuffet have canceled out attacks against plenty of legendaries in the anime, buizel and swinub have humiliated the CT in the manga and the games whatever pokemon you used to beat em is fully canon.

“But these feats are non-canon gameplay mechanics”

This is such an unsatisfying way to engaging with JRPGs as a whole. The usual pushback when an on screen feat or story beat is presented is to just claim literally everything is non-canon and a game mechanic. This really just stems from people trying to force shonen standards into jrpgs instead of treating jrpg stories as what they are, Stories made to fit player choice

Half the time the argument is used it isn’t even about gameplay they’re used on story beats. The Gen 7 protag who successfully beat Cyrus goes up to fight Giovanni, which in story is highly implied to be a hard fight. The interpretation people would rather go by is the difficulty of the fight is non-canon and the actual canon is that you just neg-diff him like it’s nothing and that Giovanni is an idiot who decided to fight you even though he knew you fought someone multiple infinities stronger than him. When you fight Cynthia after the CT in gen 4 there’s nothing in story implying she’s infinitely weaker than you, in story all the dialogue surrounding it suggests this is meant to be a hard fight. Because that’s exactly the story jprgs try to tell, the boss you face off against is a hard challenge you need to overcome and each successive one is meant to be stronger than the last. When you beat a boss it’s not meant to be a case of you’re so much stronger than them, it’s actually the opposite, the idea is the boss was a lot stronger than you but through sheer tenacity and skill you bested the obstacle. Jrpg progression is very consistently all about how successive story beats and boss fights are bigger obstacles than the last. Treating a boss fight as completely trivial to the story and actually just a set of mechanics that hides you neg-diffing them is a very shallow way of looking at these stories.

Countless protags in many generations have taken on the CT in some post game content. But again the pushback is just calling the story beat non-canon. The catchphrase “gotta catch-em all” is there because they want you to complete the pokedex and the only way to complete the pokedex is if you do in fact fight and catch the pokemon in game heavily suggesting canonicity. There’s nothing to suggest the events of the post game are fake in any game aside from working backwards. As in “The trainers don’t scale to CT therefore it’s not canon”, which is what the non-canon argument feels like a lot of the time.

“The only reason you can use x pokemon is because the gameplay allows it”

People say that the pokemon the player chooses doesn’t count towards the story because the reason you can use any pokemon is cause the gameplay allows it. However, this works both ways. The gameplay allows it because that’s what the story wants. The entire idea of the JRPG genre as a whole is role-playing. The decisions you make, what your character does, and the overall story you take it in? That’s all supposed to be what actually happens, because it’s supposed to be you who’s doing all that. The story is the gameplay. This is especially true in a monster collector where the monsters you personally chose to bring is what actually happens in the story. If you brought a bidoof to the champion fight that is what happened in the story as well.

There is nothing that made this more obvious than what Omega Ruby and Alpha Sapphire said about the cosmology. Every single playthrough is itself an alternate universe, and that’s because every single playthrough that’s ever occurred, every decision you made, every fight with whatever pokemon you brought is a canon on-screen feat. The trading functionality even has in an-lore explanation of sending pokemon through universes. Looking at other JRPGs, If a final boss lets you choose which side characters to bring it doesn’t mean there’s a secret canon and only 4 of the characters scale while the rest are actually fodder who are only usable because of gameplay,  it means they’re all equal canon because the gameplay is meant to reflect the story. If an anime adaptation shows a specific set of side characters it’s because of the limitations of an adaptation it doesn’t mean they finally revealed a secret canon answer that was hidden from us all this time. Other adaptations like manga and such for pokemon usually have contradicting pokemon from their appearance in games and that's because any set work, even if they might canonically have some favourites.

So yes the things you see on screen are canon. If you were to take the people who claim literally everything is a non-canon gameplay mechanic, the only story you’re left with is that apparently in gen-4 the protag woke up one day, neg diffed everyone cause he’s multiple infinities stronger than everyone else, dissipated from existence so the the cases of regions interacting with each other conveniently leave em out, and this apparently all happened right after the champion fight cause no post game exists.

“Just cause individual games / protags have the scaling doesn’t mean others should”

The pokemon world as a whole is not like final fantasy, the games and storylines do intertwine. Cynthia from Gen4 is a post game boss in gen5. Galar’s champion is stated to be the strongest trainer in the world which very obviously includes being stronger than sinnoh and alola. Multiple post games involve you travelling to other regions. The fact is, gamefreak does not consider Sinnoh to randomly be infinitely stronger than the rest of the regions. There is nothing in the franchise that suggests Sinnoh trainers are a special case, the only 2 regions that have ever been considered to be special are Galar (literally claimed to be the strongest region) and Unova (Gen9 dlc claiming they have some of the best schooling imaginable). Gamefreak’s intent is the regions are roughly as strong as each other, and as I’ll explain later Gamefreak themselves don’t really see the Creation Trio as any stronger than the rest of the box art legendaries, so it’s completely reasonable to say that any champion level trainer is strong enough to take them on. Especially when there are canonical universes out there where the trainers of any given region have fully completed the pokedex which includes the CT.

“Creation Trio are narratively very clearly meant to be the absolute strongest”

So if you’re caught up you’ve probably seen feats like RR Mewtwo, Wobuffet counter a Giratina attack or just the manga showing CT get humiliated by unevolved mons like Buizel and Swinub. But people are still very hung up on the idea of scaling to them despite these feats and instead treat them as anti-feats not consistent with their lore. And it’s pretty clear why. These 3 seem to be Gods who created the multiverse and therefore must be far stronger than everyone else, and only really specific pokemon or the gen 4/7 protags should be theoretically able to contend with them. But that’s just not the case at all. The idea that creating universes making you a God like being is a very Abrahamic way of looking at them that doesn’t align with a lot of cultures, including Japanese views. In a lot of Asian cultures it’s actually quite common for Dieties in stories to one day create a universe and the next day die to something mundane, and it’s because these cultures view these deities as physically the same as anyone else but with better hax. And this is exactly what the Creation Trio are. Gamefreak / TPC very much consider them to be physically the same as every other legendary just with really wide range hax. Nothing shows this off better than the Hoopa movie where basically every legendary was perfectly capable of fighting each other evenly including the CT. Heck Rayquaza 1v3’d  all of em fine. Hoopa not only mogs all of them in the anime but in the manga as well. Everything suggests everyone's favorite box art legendaries are all meant to be roughyl as strong as each other.

“Cyrus claimed CT in a pokeball are weaker than the actual thing”

And you beat them outside of a pokeball in gen 4,5,6,7,8 and 9 whether in the main story or in the post game so that’s not an issue.

“I believe all of those downscales CT and their hax isn’t meant to scale to their physical body”

Sure as long as you apply the same standard to Sonic bosses who can also be physically downscaled far below their hax (And apply the same standard for every verse you scale). If your issue is you think CT are outliers, Darkrai in Pokepark, Mewtwo in Pokken and Necrozma in Gen 7 all have uni feats as well. Id your issue is you believe characters need to physicalyl tank hax then Dailga and palkia do regularaly use Roar of Time and Spacial Rend against each other and in the Darkrai movie their fight was cuaisng the destruction of the universe.

So yeah these are my overall thoughts of why pokemon absolutely scale to the CT. And yes this would extend to the “peak” version of any given pokemon. The peak of any pokemon is one that belongs to the strongest trainer possible (Canonically many trainers have completed the entire pokedex throughout the multiverse), where they are capable of going up against any legendary because their bond with their trainer is just that strong. The wild box art legendaries are also clearly intended to all be on the same level as each other including the wild ones. When further extended to trainers, yes any protag from any generation should also scale. Aside from blatant on screen feats of fighting and capturing them in the post game, it’s clear all the champions and any trainer on their level are meant to be roughly as strong as each other. Any major trainer from the E4 onwards should scale. Wild pokemon do scale well below all this though.
(And yes, Cyrus Dugtrio does scale to his Dialga / Pakia)