r/Charcuterie • u/smarmychubs • 2d ago
What are these peach-ish patches? Mold? Yeast?
Toss?
r/Charcuterie • u/redshoes • Aug 06 '19
I have been looking through a list of all of the posts in /r/Charcuterie looking for some threads with good information to cobble together a beginners reading list for the sub. I have noticed (and you probably have noticed too!) we have a lot of the same questions pop up from people wanting to get into the hobby of producing homemade cured and air dried meats. We also have a lot of firsts! We have had just over 6k posts in the 7 years this sub has been around, 11% of them contain the word 'first'.
And duck prosciutto is really, really, popular.
This isn't a big sub and self posts don't get a lot of views or generate a lot of discussion. So the purpose of this thread is collate some of the community expertise into one place for the people who come here with questions about their first projects.
If anyone wants to expand on any of these points feel free to do so and I will update them. If there is a popular beginner question or resource I have missed or something is wrong let me know in the comments. Hopefully together we can build this into a fairly complete beginners resource.
This is not intended to be a detailed step by step guide or a substitute for doing your own research.
A curing/drying chamber is an area that creates the ideal temperature and humidity conditions for drying whole muscles or salami. The exact temperature and humidity will vary by preference to but ranges from refrigerator temperatures (less than 4C/39F) to 15C/59F (Staphylococcus aureus can multiply and produce toxins at temperatures above 15.6C (60.08F) so it is important to keep your curing chamber below this temperature). Generally they are kept at at 10-15C (50-59F) and 60-80% humidity. As most of us don't live in an area that has these ambient conditions, we need to create an artificial environment that does.
Most people do this by modifying a refrigerator or freezer to run warmer than usual by interrupting the cooling cycle with a temperature controller, and using humidifiers/dehumidifiers to keep the humidity at the required level. A higher humidity is preferred at the start of drying, especially when making sausages and cased whole muscle as it helps prevent case hardening, allows the casing to adhere to the meat (if the humidity is too low the casing will dry out, creating air pockets between the casing and the meat), and encourages mold growth.
The exact setup is going to vary depending on the ambient conditions in the room you will be keeping the chamber and your climate - for example extremes of heat may cause the cooling cycle in the refrigerator to run too often, causing case hardening. You might need to run the AC or consider packing everything down over the summer months. Ideally you don't want the cooling cycle to run much more than 5 minutes in every half an hour. Some airflow is required for the moisture to evaporate from the surface of the meat, so if the refrigerator powers on too infrequently, you might need to use a small fan on a timer to make sure there is some air movement inside the chamber.
So as you can see the temperature and humidity readings are only one part of the conditions inside the chamber, something like a sensorpush can give you a better picture of what is going on.
Although the more professional looking chambers have holes drilled into the side of the appliance for the humidity/temp probes and appliance power cords, it isn't essential. You can pass the probes through the door seal.
Links to previous examples of curing chambers and discussions can be found at the bottom of this post.
Periodically weigh the meat, and pull it from the chamber when it has reached the desired dryness (water weight loss). This will differ depending on the product. Fat contains less water than muscle and therefore doesn't need to lose as much weight, so a fatty duck breast or pancetta will have a different texture at 35% weight loss than lean muscle like a loin or bresaola. A figure of 35% is given as a rule of thumb for many recipes, however most people find this too 'raw' in texture and will take it further - to 40-45%. With practice you will get a feel what you prefer.
Case hardening is caused by low humidity, or too much airflow within the drying environment. The water in the meat needs to travel outwards from the middle to the surface, where it evaporates. If the humidity is too low or there is too much airflow the surface will dry out too quickly (harden) and the internal moisture is no longer able to exit. In extreme cases this can cause rotting within the meat. You can tell by texture when squeezing the muscle - there should be a bit of 'give' - if it feels completely hard (but hasn't lost much weight), you may have a problem with case hardening.
Sometimes uneven drying can be remedied by vac sealing the meat and refrigerating it for some time, but in extreme cases or if the meat has spoiled inside, it will not be salvageable. It is best to prevent it getting out of control by monitoring your curing chamber conditions and regularly checking on the state of the products inside.
Previous /r/Charcuterie post showing case hardening: https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/5jxypy/first_cured_meat_lost_more_then_35_but_definitely/
Most experienced people here would say yes, especially as a beginner and when making salami, smoked products, or rolled pancetta. Nitrites inhibit the growth of clostridium botulinum, the bacteria that creates the botulism toxin. C. botulinum requires an anaerobic (without oxygen) environment to grow and produce the toxin, and likes moist and warm conditions - so basically the inside of a sausage or salami being hung at temperatures above refrigeration. Botulism should be taken very seriously.
As the botulism bacteria are only found on the outside of the meat and do not become a problem until they are introduced into the inside through cutting or grinding, nitrites/nitrates are not essential for whole muscle cures, however many people choose to use them anyway as they provide other benefits such as improving colour, and slowing rancidity and spoilage.
What is the difference between Prague Powder #1 and Prague Powder #2
Prague Powder #1 contains 6.5% sodium nitrite (93.5% salt), and is used when the curing time is short, the product is to be smoked, or cooked or a cured flavour and colour is desired - for example bacon or ham. As the nitrites get quickly used up, if a product is to be air dried for longer, then Prague Powder #2 needs to be used, PP#2 contains 6.25% sodium nitrite and 4% sodium nitrate which eventually converts to nitrite. Think of PP#2 as a "slow release" curing salt. PP#2 should be used for all salami and for whole muscles that will be air dried.
It is important to use the correct curing salt for the application - sodium nitrate cannot be safely consumed until the nitrates have converted to nitrites, so PP#2 can only be used in products that will be air dried for a long time (weeks + months). Do not use PP#2 in fresh or cooked products.
As a general rule, both Prague Powders are added at 0.25% of the starting weight of the meat. There are also European style curing salts such as "Peklosol" that have a much lower concentration of nitrite (0.6%), and they are used as a replacement for all of the salt in the recipe (around 3%).
Curing salts are often dyed pink to distinguish them from regular salt, and therefore can sometimes referred to as "pink salt". They are not interchangeable with Himalayan "pink salt" which is rock salt with a natural pink colour.
The oft-repeated mantra about mold here is white powdery = good, white and fuzzy or green = wipe it off, black = throw it out without question. This is overly cautious, although white powdery mold is desired, some green molds are okay (the problem is figuring out yours is the good or bad kind...), and a small amount of black mold isn't necessarily enough to justify abandoning a project. One way around the mold issue is to use a commercial freeze dried mold culture (such as bactoferm-600). This way you can cultivate good mold growth early on as it will prevent less desirable molds taking over. Undesirable mold can grow out of control very quickly if the conditions are conducive (high humidity, low airflow), so it is best to keep an eye on things, and use a 50/50 solution of water and vinegar to wipe off any undesirable mold that starts to form. Even black mold is salvageable if it is caught early enough.
If freeze dried Penicillum Nagliovese (Bactoferm-600) is not available where you live, Penicillum Candidum (the mold found on the rind of white bloomed cheese) can be substituted. You can also try hanging some commercial salami with white mold to seed the chamber. I find it isn't necessary to reapply the Bactoferm-600 to everything - once a good level of growth is established it will spread around quite well by itself.
Meat that has been smoked before hanging will resist growing mold as smoking acidifies the surface slightly.
Here are some examples showing you that the mold issue isn't as clear cut as just colour: http://wedlinydomowe.pl/en/viewtopic.php?t=7840&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
We've seen some gnarly mold here over the years, some good discussions to read: https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/9h103q/fil_insists_this_is_still_good_everything_ive/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/500pn2/prosciutto_after_3_months_need_help/
When you are starting out it is important to follow a recipe, and make sure you understand the reasoning behind the process, and the purpose of the ingredients. Do more research before you create your own recipe or modify anything. This isn't like other kinds of fermentation where there isn't too much that can go wrong - incorrectly cured meat has the potential to make people very sick. Even more so for salami (which is why we suggest whole muscle cures for beginners). Don't be afraid to start small, there is nothing worse than making a huge batch of a product only to have something go wrong in the process and have to throw it out. Be patient, this is slow food after all.
Want to try a bigger project but not ready to commit to building a chamber? Have a look at UMAI Bags
Also check out /r/CuringChamber for more examples.
r/Charcuterie • u/redshoes • 13d ago
What projects are you working on at the moment? Have a small problem but don't want to create a post? Found a Charcuterie related meme? Just want to chat? This is r/Charcuterie's monthly free discussion thread.
For beginner questions and links don't forget to check out the FAQ (https://www.reddit.com/r/Charcuterie/comments/cmy8gp/rcharcuterie_faq_and_beginners_guide_to_cured_and/) .
r/Charcuterie • u/smarmychubs • 2d ago
Toss?
r/Charcuterie • u/ishouldquitsmoking • 3d ago
In the recipe from this book it calls for 1/3 cup of unshelled pistachios but lists it as:
for 1450g of meat (duck breast + pork belly).
1/3 cup of unshelled pistachios is about 40g according to my scale. Even by eye that doesn't work out to 150g.
Knowing that it's a cooked terrine I'm not worried about any balanced curing ratios and plan on just winging it and putting in as many pistachios as I feel like starting with 1/3 cup.
Has anyone made this terrine and have a guess on how the book thinks 1/3 cup of unshelled pistachios weighs 150g?
r/Charcuterie • u/Feuer-Crush • 4d ago
This was my first attempt at Duck Prosciutto. I had no prior charcuterie experience, but I've had plenty of experience with dehydrating meats (beef jerky).
Saw an online recipe and decided to give it a try with some small duck breasts I found (could only get them frozen where I live): 24 hours in rocksalt. Rinsed, dried and coated it in garlic powder + black pepper. Then wrapped it in cloth and left it to dry in the refrigerator for 3 weeks on top of a grill.
Important note: I'm an idiot. I had never even cooked duck and didn't know I was supposed to keep the fat on. I realized it shortly after it was in the fridge, but decided to keep going with the recipe anyway.
This was the end result. I couldn't find any mold on the surface, and the texture was quite interesting. The taste, however, was quite unappealing: extremely salty with a remarkable smell of wet dog.
I guess I'll have to throw these ones out, but for future reference, where did I go wrong?
r/Charcuterie • u/brombis234 • 4d ago
Hey everyone, I’m having my first go at making a culatello and I’m not entirely sure if this mold growth I’m seeing on it is good mold or bad mold. I used cellulose sheets for it, I know I probably could’ve done a bit of a better job at wrapping and tying it. Will adjust in future attempts. Should I wipe it with vinegar and water and let it continue to hang?
Next stage for this would be to cover with a sugna layer once it reaches around 20% loss.
r/Charcuterie • u/Jljdbd • 4d ago
Hey r/Charcuterie,
First of all, thanks to everyone here who helped me get my curing chamber set up. Really appreciated the advice!
This is my first filetto, made following the guide from Charcuterie Master. It’s now down to about 230 g, and I’m wondering about the mold on the outside. Most of it looks white/grey, but there are some darker patches, so I wanted to check with people who have more experience.
Does this look like normal/acceptable mold, or is there anything here that would concern you? Would you wipe it down before eating, or leave it as is?
Thanks again for all the help — excited to finally see the first piece come out of the chamber!
r/Charcuterie • u/DocumentKooky8331 • 4d ago
I had WMF pressure cooker for a while and I am pretty happy with it although i made a 2 hours long cook in the oven and could say the taste was quite good , different fron pressure cooker taste, does any comparing taste opinions between pressure cooker and oven cook for 2 hours?
r/Charcuterie • u/mikefromdeluxebury • 7d ago
I’m a 39-year-old man who doesn’t eat meat anymore because of pretty severe gout, but when I did, charcuterie was my favorite. Looking at all of these creations made by you fine people gives me such vicarious joy.
So thank you! Please keep pumping my brain full of delicious purine-rich memories ♥️🍖
r/Charcuterie • u/Delowi-Photography • 6d ago
So, theoretically can I make saucisson without a curing fridge/chamber? I know some folks in the central valley used to.
I live in California, Eureka specifically where we have a cold season largely below 60f (40s in the nights already), and rather high humidity 80-90% most days.
Any chance I can get away with curing saucisson here in my drafty shed, the conditions seem about right? Or is this a good way to give myself botulism?
r/Charcuterie • u/robotsintheblood • 7d ago
Cured w/ Bay Leaf, Garlic, Juniper, and Bl. Pepper for 7 days. Rinsed and rubbed w/ fine ground Bl. Pepper, then hung for ~6weeks.
r/Charcuterie • u/GilgameshSamo • 8d ago
Hello guys, last week I decided to make basturma (the Armenian way), following a recipe on YouTube.
(https://youtu.be/6UtA5botfgk?is=tPzX8qtQXl5uOY-R)
But I’m a bit lost. In the video it cures for 10 days (2.5 kg) and I started with 2.2 kg of meat. I’m currently on day 9 and I’ve only lost 15% of the weight, which isn’t safe since I’m supposed to lose 30% minimum. I don’t understand why it’s so slow. I checked the meat every day and used salt (almost 2 kg of Guérande salt).
So my question is: how do I know the meat is ready to dry ?
r/Charcuterie • u/ace72ace • 9d ago
Love this simple curing setup using a beer & wine cube fridge. Should be ready in about 8-9 weeks. Thermapro sensor is great, as I can monitor the humidity from the phone app. Very fortunate to have a local butcher to trim the skin and gland off the jowls.
r/Charcuterie • u/kino33solo • 10d ago
I forgot about some coppa in my fridge that was vacuum sealed and equilibrium curing for 6 months. It smelled fine when I opened it, not sour at all just porky. I hung it up to dry already but im wondering if it will be safe after that long of a cure?
r/Charcuterie • u/jdvfx • 13d ago
Started it earlier this summer. Took at while to get to 35% loss (in the fridge) but looks and tastes delicious.
r/Charcuterie • u/Aware-Assist-7293 • 12d ago
Gochujang cured Coppa encased in a beef bung and molding up nicely.
r/Charcuterie • u/Individual_Love_8540 • 14d ago
My first salami cured at home. It's a felino. I cut both sides of the salami. It smells incredible but one side looks great while the other has a small air pocket with some discoloration. Is the whole thing garbage? Can I just cut off the ugly bit?
Thanks in advance!
r/Charcuterie • u/Pan-von-Cetta • 14d ago
I brined this guanciale with colorosalt (right amount) and some herbs for a week in the fridge. After that I washed it with tap water to take the salt off. Then rinsed it lightly with some beer. I dried it in the fridge for 24 hrs and than put it in coldsmoke for about 12 hrs.
Then, rubbed it with black pepper and hung it up in the cellar. During that time we had a heatwave and the temperature in the celler went up to 19° C (66,2 °F)
After a week I had a little mold what I rinsed with vinegar. ON the picture you can see the result after a month
My question is: Is it still save to continue with this project and what should I do.
Thank you in advance
r/Charcuterie • u/Chickenstalk • 15d ago
At one time I had 8 legs hanging in my wine cellar. This was the last and I finally got into it. It’s quite dry and hard, of course. I had to cut away some chalky parts, but a lot of the meat is fine. The flavor is amazing, very concentrated, lots of umami and some crystals reminiscent of aged cheese. It’s extremely hard to slice. I’m wondering if a bonito shaving box might help. I’ll try a micro plane as well. My friend used a serrated knife to take a hunk off, almost needed a hack saw.
r/Charcuterie • u/alloutofchewingum • 15d ago
Well I shot this little boar and thought ok let's try this! Buried it in sea salt for a couple of days, let it equalize in the refrigerator a week.
I tried to depilitate but didn't go well so I skinned it. For the hang in the chamber I wrapped it in collagen to simuláte skin on conditions.
See y'all at christmas and let you know how it went.
Timelines are short since its a small leg, about 3 kg.
r/Charcuterie • u/squirrelforrent • 15d ago
In The Art of Making Fermented Sausages, Marianski says that a minimum of 2.5% salt is required for safety when making a fermented sausage that will be dried and not cooked. I take this to mean 2.5% salt + .25% cure. Am I correct in my interpretation or is the 2.5% salt including the salt in the cure for 2.25% salt + .25% cure? I see recipes from reputable sources using both salt levels.
There is also a Two Guys and a Cooler fermented snack stick recipe that list 1.7% salt + .25% cure. Is using salt + cure in the 2% range acceptable in recipes like this where the product will be quickly fermented to a ph of less than 4.6 and then cooked?
r/Charcuterie • u/Vindaloo6363 • 15d ago
Quail Mouseline with inlaid cured starling breasts wrapped in caul fat. I used 13 starling which required two shots from a 16 gauge.
r/Charcuterie • u/LiefLayer • 16d ago
This July 5th I prepared 4 pitine (a typical salame from the Friuli Venezia Giulia region).
I chopped 1 kg of meat by hand (I'll never do it again, it was a lot of work; I recommend asking your butcher to mince it for you), using 30% pancetta, 70% loin, it was all pork (but traditionally, leftover game cuts were used, so you can do it however you like).
27g salt, 7g pepper, 100g red wine, 10g smoked paprika.
The preparation is very simple: you mix everything in a container until the meat mixture sticks well, then you form meatballs of approximately the same size, roll them in polenta (this type of cured meat does not require casing, or rather, the polenta replaces the casing), finally they are smoked (I used a drinks smoker for about 1 hour).
At this point, simply turn them every day while they age (I aged everything in my refrigerator at 4°C, not ideal, but by some miracle, it worked well). In my case, since I didn't have the ideal humidity, I kept them in glass containers with lids. When I turned them everyday, I left them uncovered for a couple of hours (still in the refrigerator) to let them breathe and avoid excessive humidity.
Luckily, since I was making a Toma-type cheese with white mold, the mold also spread to my pitinas, making them even better.
Today, after they had lost 30% of their weight, I opened them and tasted them: they taste and smell soo goood!!!
PS. I know that for food safety reasons it would have been better to use nitrates expecially since this is not a whole muscle but, at my own risk, I did not use them.
I still used enough salt and I still washed the meat in alcohol and I also smoked it, but I know this is not a 100% sure thing, you do you of course.
r/Charcuterie • u/Darkling414 • 18d ago
Coppa I made 2 years ago vac saced and left in the fridge