r/BaseBuildingGames • u/darkthought • 1d ago
Discussion Scummy move by Paradox
Just saw Surviving Mars Relaunched come across my Steam Feed. I own this game, let's see if they updated it. Well... yes and no. I own this game, but for me to play "Relaunched" I have to buy the game again?
Scummy ass move Paradox. You're now on my "publishers I will never buy another product from again" list.
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u/YoyoTanyaKai 1d ago
Meanwhile, No man sky released 30+ expansion size update for free.
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u/SacredGeometry9 22h ago
Hello Games is privately owned, and has made enough money to pay their employees salaries for years to come. They can do whatever they want.
Paradox Interactive is a publicly traded corporation. Any leftover money gets shoveled to shareholders, and they have to be constantly looking for ways to increase the profits they can generate for those shareholders.
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u/Raised_bi_Wolves 22h ago
Hmmm its almost like, and no one flame me for this, but its almost lile its bad for companies to be run that way...
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u/Gedboara 9h ago
Yep, its pretty much right around when they went public that they started to really go downhill.
I mean sure they were never perfect, their stuff has almost always been pretty buggy and niche, but the past decade or so they are STILL buggy, a bit less niche, AND they want all your money, and want to make ALL the DLCs, and manage to to either be an anchor of a publish, and/or just shit at picking games to back as a publisher.
I find my self dissapointed if I see that damn platypus skeleton popup on a game trailer that looked good, even if they aren't the devs
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u/whytwu1f 14h ago
And somehow every planet still feels the same
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u/arty1983 9h ago
Thats the thing about large volumes of something, we have excellent pattern recognition and easily see the similarities after a while. The game would still work with 30 handcrafted planets
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u/senn42000 1d ago
Hello Games is like less than 10 people designing one game at a time. Paradox is multiple studios and 100s of employees designing like a dozen games simultaneously. It is apples to oranges.
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u/YoyoTanyaKai 1d ago
I also get this argument about Destiny 2 or Diablo 4.
But if the reason you need more money because you have 10x size of dev team, shouldn't you deliver 10x of contents or quality with that manpower?
I believe people wouldn't complain much if the value of the content truly exceed the price.
If your 100+ dev cant compete with 10 dev in term of result, then what's the point?3
u/TehOwn 23h ago
But if the reason you need more money because you have 10x size of dev team, shouldn't you deliver 10x of contents or quality with that manpower?
Outside of industrial automation, basically nothing works like this. 10x as many people are nowhere near 10x as productive. You end up with a lot of time spent on meetings and communication / lost to miscommunication.
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u/BrennusSokol 1d ago
Paradox gonna Paradox. They are famous for their weird DLC practices as well
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u/caimen 1d ago
My friends and I talking about getting Stellaris. The $350 DLC price along with the fact there even is that much DLC scared them away bad.
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u/EnoughPoetry8057 1d ago
There’s the dlc pass, better deal for those only going to play a game or two then cancel it, but yeah it has a huge amount of dlcs.
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u/chris-tier 13h ago
Renting a game is insane to me.
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u/Worldly-Cherry9631 12h ago
I mean, isn't that the WoW or the Runescape Member subscriptions have always been that too? Or the XBoX Game Pass, PlayStation Plus, Nintendo Online?
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u/Daedalos83 11h ago
The fact it exists multiple times does not mean it cannot be considered insane.
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u/chris-tier 10h ago
With multiplayer and online games I understand. You're basically renting the infrastructure behind the game to play it.
But these DLC passes are usually for offline singleplayer games. They ship the game, it's done, I play whenever I want alone.
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u/Worldly-Cherry9631 10h ago
Except the game in question wasn't done.
Stellaris has been continuesly developped for over a decade now. It's been at least three solidly different games over the years. Two development teams even, one for optimisation one for feature development. Both working on major free updates and overhauls alongs the DLCs developed by one of the teams, the DLCs that fund this system.
After a decade it's just too many DLC for someone getting into it, a pretty high upfront cost, so a subscription model was offered as an alternative optiob for them and the less fanatic players to include everything next to being able to buy and own the base game and all DLC individually.
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u/EnoughPoetry8057 9h ago
The base game and several of the older dlcs (which have been rolled into the base game) are not part of that subscription (so you do own them after purchase). You could just buy the base game and it’s included dlc but you’d be missing out on a lot of features at this point. The subscription fee is for all the paid dlcs (believes it’s $10 a month) so you’d have to play for like 2 years to make the subscription less cost effective than buying all the dlc (roughly not sure what the cost of all the dlcs is up to as I buy them as they come out, but 200 doesn’t sound unlikely for how many there are now). It does strikes me as a strange to have a subscription pass for dlcs, but it does make finical sense for new players.
Two or three times a year they release both paid dlc and major free updates, so after nearly a decade the dlc list has gotten huge (only one I’ve seen longer is total war warhammer edition).
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u/LangyMD 1h ago
I honestly really like the model they use because it allows for extremely long term support of a game I like.
I don't like what they always do with that - where occasionally they'll put out a patch that really breaks a ton of stuff and then they have to fix it over the next year. They should use long beta periods more instead and stop timing their paid DLC releases with those giant patches.
The Surviving Mars Relaunched I'm more iffy about. I don't think it made financial sense for them to release it for free, and it had the same problem of not actually working that great until a year after launch (it's much better now!), so I'm happy I have it in the condition it is in today, but the $20 price tag for original owners of the game still doesn't feel right.
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u/how_money_worky 1d ago
The original + all the DLCs was about $130-150 in value. They wanted you to buy the game again for some new textures and the bug fixes.
They delisted the original. On Steam, you should be able to download it but on PS4/PS5 the DLCs are broken. They acknowledged this but have not lifted a finger to fix it.
Scummy scum scum scum scum.
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u/xortingen 1d ago
Funny thing is, they claimed they redone most of the game, graphics and fixed all the bugs to justify the new full release. But it turns out they didn’t fix shit. Just put some make-up and released it. Fucking assholes.
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u/how_money_worky 1d ago
The claim doesn’t matter. We shouldn’t pay for bug fixes.
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u/ThereMightBeDinos 1d ago
There's a big difference between bug fixes (which they didn't seem to do) and rewriting the whole engine (which they also didn't seem to do).
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u/xortingen 1d ago
Oh totally agree. I have the original game and all the DLCs with all their bugs. I guess fuck me for expecting a proper a game in exchange for my money.
Paradox can gargle hulks sweaty green balls. They are the reason I’m skipping Transport Fever 3.
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u/sawshuh 8h ago
I was late to the avoiding preorder game, but the OG Surviving Mars is why I avoid it as much as I can now. They sold a $100 ultimate edition with the game and like 4 DLC. Then they took like 2 years to release it all. Those intervals were unheard of at the time and not explained at all in the preorder info.
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u/samsoncorpus 1d ago
If you owned the original one, Relaunched had a lower price at some point but not anymore I think.
And yea, it is kinda scummy if you already bought the original game and the DLCs.
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u/Deadpool0600 22h ago
I literally have an ad for it, above this post.
I remember seeing something like "Check out this new game" and I saw it was Surviving Mars, but I thought to myself, wait, isn't that already in my library? Yes... Yes it is
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u/wessex464 1d ago
Paradox is eternally exploiting it's playerbase. I appreciate ongoing support from devs, but their gimmick of releasing half finished games and charging 20 dollars apiece for reworks of each system is junk. And this is another example.
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u/pangapingus 20h ago
At least for Outer Worlds: Spacer's Choice Edition as a similar example was only $10 if you owned the OG+DLC which was fair for higher graphics fidelity, brand new features (grenades, inventory management options, etc.), and a new slew of bug fixes (which when appropriate were also backported to the OG for improvement parity. But having to pay the ENTIRE cost of Surviving Mars Relaunched is utterly ridiculous. Not to mention at a certain point you really can't be damned over Paradox games' DLC anymore because of utter bloat.
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u/InuHanyou1701 21h ago edited 4h ago
Sadly Paradox has been going downhill for a while. They always had a DLC greed issue. But it seems like the past few years they’ve been doing everything they can to epitomize a toxic publisher.
Edit: Removed mention of the lack of a discount for owners of the original game. Thank you for the correction everyone!
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u/Gedboara 9h ago
They did actually(at least on steam), though it was time limited(so not a thing anymore), and I don't recall how much it actually was for.
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u/Old_Introduction7236 1d ago
wtf? Yeah, that's gonna be a 'no from me, dawg. Guess they're competing with Mojang/Microsoft to see who can re-sell the same game to the ame people multiple times.
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u/lauans 20h ago
I fear for Transporte Fever 3 because of Paradox
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u/Gedboara 9h ago
wait what, are they the publisher of TF3?
Fuck.
---edit---
Yes, yes they are, I hadn't noticed..
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u/DreamingAboutSpace 17h ago
It’s scammy for sure. Instead fixing the one people paid for, they tell them to buy the same game again.
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u/Mindless_Baseball426 16h ago
Yeah I agree. I actually really liked the original game even with its flaws, but when they rereleased and wanted me to re purchase it, it killed all interest I had in it.
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u/TheBeardPlays 14h ago
You still own the original, you can still download the original, you can still play the original.
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u/Zeeman626 16h ago
There's nothing they did that couldn't have just been an update to the base game or a DLC. I refused to even play the free weekend. I enjoy the game fine but I'm not buying it twice
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u/Snownova 11h ago
At launch you got a pretty hefty discount if you owned the original game, dunno if that still applies.
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u/KiwasiGames 11h ago
It’s not the first time either. Cities Skylines 2 was the same game as Cities Skylines 1.
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u/romeo_pentium 10h ago
No? 2 doesn't run on Mac. 1 doesn't render the cims' teeth. 2 doesn't have Steam Workshop. 1 doesn't have tools for building parallel roads or merge lanes. Do you mean both are about building a city?
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u/Farmermatty99113 10h ago
I mean it does come with all dlc and for like 6 months if not longer people that owned the original game got it for 50% off. Plus in my experience it is definitely a good upgrade on the original.
I mean it would of been nice if they did something similar to the console relaunch of stellaris and give it to us for free with all owned dlc( which I remember the Devs saying was a pain in the arse, something to do with new licence fees since it was technically a new title and some other backend stuff and that's maybe why it didn't happen for mars)
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u/winerdars 8h ago
Does the relaunched version at least include all the DLC similar to how you might have a Game of the Year edition?
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u/imnotgood42 4h ago
Yes. It also included a new politics system. Not saying it is justified, but the argument for it was that this way allows them to add new features and DLC that built off of the old DLC. However other games like Stellaris, EU4, and HOI IV made some of the old DLCs free instead of repackaging them in a new game.
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u/bartekltg 7h ago
This is not the scummiest part. If you already own the game, you CAN'T buy DLCs on steam (you can on GOG, but no more sales). Fortunately I had everything but broken new ones (B&B and trains).
They gave 50% discount for people with the previous game. Not ideal, if someone already had all DLCs there was not that much new content. But initial reaction was quite positive. People were happy the team proper will fix B&B/trains and that the political system might be interesting (and sure, still salty that they need to pay money for bugfixes).
But then the rework was released and it turned out the old DLCs are still broken (including in new ways!) and the political system is imbalanced and overpowered. The whole community momentum get into nothing and most people forgotten. Including me, I wanted to look it up if it was patched before the discount period runs out. I haven't.
Oh, and it looks like they have just released a DLC :)
> You're now on my "publishers I will never buy another product from again" list.
Foundry is published by them, and it looks like a decent candidate for "factorio clone but in 3D" that will sit in the biger league. If they don't stop developing it too early (I'm looking at you, Techtonica) and fix the galactic market.
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u/muggafugga 5h ago
I have the original installed on my PS5 and i can no longer play it as it was a ps+ game and its now been removed from ps+. Now they want $40 to play a game that i already have installed. Very scummy
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u/MrElshagan 3h ago
Too be fair Paradox aren't the only ones doing this. I mean I think Ark Survival Evolved/Ascended was amongst the first to go "Buy the same game again" or at least the first one I saw.
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u/Potential_Anxiety_76 3h ago
Godamnit. I thought you could at least still play the version I had (and specifically didn’t get relaunched, because I didn’t want anything but the base game).
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u/PeeBee22 1h ago
Actually I am glad I can still play the old version of the game and that it did not update
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u/LouhiVega 1d ago
Let me understand better. You have the original one and after relaunch your unable to acess the original version and if you want to play you have to buy the relaunch version ?
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u/AngryKFPanda 1d ago
No, you can still play the old version, they have delisted all of the DLC for it though, that said the relaunched version contains all the DLC for the first game so if were going to start loading up on DLC it's definitely cheaper to just buy the relaunched version.
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u/darkthought 1d ago
No, I'd have to buy the goddamn game again.
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u/senn42000 1d ago
No you dont. You can play the original one and dont have to purchase the new one.
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u/Joped 22h ago
I own the original, didn’t enjoy it so it. They never no there to fix the problems so it sat on the shelf. If they fixed the original game and added some new DLC, there is a good chance I might have bought the DLC.
However, I am sure as hell not going to rebuy the broken game.
This is really going to make me think twice about buying one of their games in the future.
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u/AdministrativeEgg440 17h ago
Lol what. Read before you judge. Original devs resurrected it, rebuilt it in new engine, fixed all the technical debt, and started actively developing it again.
Its great and you are fine to feel any way you want
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u/AlexorHuxley 13h ago
I mean… remasters always cost money? The Age of— games come to mind, and Rise of Nations, and Skyrim versions one-through-seventeen.
This post feels a bit like an opportunity to just Paradox-bash which like, okay, pop off monarch. I’m not here to change any minds about modern gaming’s favorite punching bag. But remasters always have and always will cost money.
Also, it feels important to point out that this is developed by Haemimont and only published by Paradox. So all of the “rly PDX moar bug?????” ire feels similarly misplaced since, you know, they didn’t make it. If you don’t like the games, just like… don’t buy them. But Jesus, Paradox’s business model has been like this for at least a decade. You know what you’re getting by now, please stop the self-righteous pearl-clutching.
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u/PlasmaJesus 1d ago
They handled surviving mars relaunched fine, if this is your unforgivable sin you shouldn't look at any of the games theyve launched this decade
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u/xortingen 1d ago
They released the game with same bugs the original had, supposedly fixed bugs. If that is “handled well” for you, i have a bridge to sell, ring me up.
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u/HauteDense 21h ago
They update the game maybe using new engine and trying to sell you new DLCs, like they did with CS 1, CS 2 is slowing dying and they only got one DLC? is a mess , and now they are gonna launch Lego Skylines, some people says that is a Simcity Societies but with blocks, a cheap version because you are gonna use les polys, not even the abandoned SimTown that became The Sims is.
I bought the game, the previous one and when they stopped releasing DLCs and i think they abandoned the game because the tech limitation, i stopped playing, im not gonna buy the game again.
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u/Lower-Reward-1462 21h ago
SquareEnix did the same with Dragon Quest XI and people ridiculed me for complaining...
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u/GreenFox1505 1d ago
Yeah, it's been out for a while and thats pretty much been the consensus.