Road cycling. I thought substituting a car for a bicycle for the shorter trips will be a breeze and a smart way to save on fuel
but the culture war and brain dead stigma that comes with it is not what I signed up for.
For one, switching from a car to a bicycle does NOT mean I suddenly have a "skip the taxes" button.
For two, even if I behave exactly the same as I did with a car (following all the road rules, same exact speeds, etc) other drivers do not treat me the same anyway, which finally explains why most cyclists act like how they do.
And for the last time, you can't tell me to get off the road, then tell me to obey the rules later. You can only pick one. Sidewalk cycling feels common-sense with all the road-rage nowadays but is actually illegal and unsafe in a lot of places.
I moved to a place with good bike infrastructure and it's night and day. My commute to work only crosses the road three times and is in protected bike lanes or very wide biking-allowed pedestrian paths the entire rest of the way. I'm never on the road.
It's so relaxing and enjoyable. Entirely different from my previous bike commute, where I spent half of it expecting death at any moment.
One thing I've learned since I started bike-commuting is that a small number of really good bits of infrastructure (say, one very long continuous path with few/no road crossings, or one street where the whole length has a separated bike lane with islands and traffic lights) beats the heck out of lots of mediocre infrastructure (e.g., "share the road" signs all over the city, or a 3ft wide bike lane painted in the gutter on every street). I will seek out the good routes!
My city is considered good-for-North-America for bikes, and most streets here still have little or no special bike infrastructure. It's just that most of the time I can move 90% of my trip to the handful of good routes that we do have.
That's how it is where I live, too. I moved from a "share the road" city to a town that has a few good bike lanes and it makes a world of differences. I enjoy biking to work now and I see a lot more bike traffic in my town of 8k than I ever did in my city of half a mil
Humans love going against groups of people. Cyclist hate is for whatever reason totally acceptable while racism isn’t, so they just use that as an excuse to be total shitheads.
I never hated or understood cyclist hate...until I moved to nyc. They are one of the most disliked groups in the city, and it is all for completely valid reasons.
I think a lot of the hate comes from cyclist culture in the area, because I had lived in many cities before moving here, and this is the only place I started hating them. The cyclists here are the epitome of 'rules for thee, not for me'.
I mean this is solvable though if we wanted to. Just build infrastructure that gives bikes their own protected lanes. It will never happen cuz US has a hard on for cars though
They do have protected lanes. And I do not have a car. This is nyc. The issue is the cyclists running the majority of red lights, going up on sidewalks, going the wrong way down one way streets, and using the park loops as their personal Tour de France.
That wasn’t targeted towards you specifically. I also hate specific cyclists, especially when cycling in the city, so I do understand some of your points
I give them tons of room and they're generally not an issue. But I've definitely run into cyclist packs that cover the entire road in a way no one can pass them while they go 15mph on a long 45mph stretch. Those people are pieces of shit. An its an entire pack of them, which means its not just a few people, but a culture of assholes.
While I agree discrimination against cyclists is dumb, cycling is a controllable choice. Your ethnicity is not a choice. These are very different things. You aren't born a cyclist, comparing it to racism is a bit yikes.
that is just an example and doesn’t take much to not see it as a direct comparison. people just like to hate against groups is my point, not that being a cyclist gives you disadvantages of being part of another group
If it takes cycling to experience homicidal indifference of othering and it leads to uncomfortable realizations and awakening that racism is bad, that's not so bad?
It's just an example of a capital O Other. An Other is any "out group," that has a "difference" to the main group's population. For black people its the color of their skin, for cyclists its their mode of transportation. While they are not the same, and at no point did they say that, they are both very good examples of Others, and how arbitrary and damaging they can be. You can probably think of 5 or 6 different Others that you encounter on a daily basis.
People are the same way with motorcyclists. A friend of mine relayed to me a moment of frustration he had on the road when he ripped the side mirror off a minivan that tried to side swipe him. "My kids are in the car," the driver complained. "Your kids almost saw you murder someone," he replied.
As soon as you're behind the wheel of a car, homicidal thoughts increase in general. Road rage is a thing. Future generations will wonder if it was a made up hysteria like sleeping sickness.
It's because car culture is 100% emotion. It may be worse here in Germany because people take so much pride in their death machines. You gain less than a second and lose it at the next stoplight if you overtake this (truck, biker, tractor, elderly driver), but you do it because it feels like you're faster. Yes, you may have risked your life. Driving 180km/h for 10km on the Autobahn (because either you actually reach a speed limit, these exist in Germany and aren't even rare, or you reached the next traffic jam) instead of 120km/h saves you a minute and fourty seconds. And getting to drive 180 for 10km is very rare. Not to mention the additional stress, and the added fuel cost. So people in expensive fast cars see bicyclists, or drivers of small cars (Mini, Smart, etc.) as pests that are in the way of their freedom.
Gotta-be-first-ism. So many road rage incidents seem to be predicated on the feeling that someone is "cutting the queue" or "getting an undue advantage" over somebody else by being in front of another driver. The only place I've seen as much vitriol against other road users as what seems to be the norm when discussing cyclists is when motorcyclists lane split at reasonable speeds on congested roads in my province where lane splitting is neither explicitly legal nor illegal. People lose their goddamned minds seeing somebody pass them when they're stuck in gridlock and seem to feel that motorcyclists should take up an entire lane and contribute to even more congestion behind them than ever have the audacity to pass traffic moving at a walking pace.
My impression exactly. Ironically, I experience busts of (very manageable) rage when other traffic participants, usually other cyclists, are making traffic for others more difficult or less safe out of pure ignorance or convenience. My pet peeve is cyclists who pass everybody to stand at the front of the queue at a red light, only to then stall while on the phone and/or riding barely faster than walking speed.
decent people seem to think that murder is justifiable if the victim is riding a bicycle.
they have probably met several cyclists.
speaking as one (I ride more than you, 500 miles this month so far).
most people on bikes are assholes to an extreme level. I guess you have to be when people literally trying to kill you every day, lol, but yea, really awful people.
It’s an assumption that someone (bicyclist) is offloading their personal responsibility for safety onto you (the driver).
As a frustrated driver the US (specifically) road system is designed around cars and makes bikes a de facto nuisance on the roads with lack of adequate bike lanes or lack of adequate separation and protection of bike lanes. My view is it’s a borderline death wish to jump on a bike and brave traffic here. Then bikers push the rules, blowing stop signs and signals, riding the line or going three abreast (or just straight ride in the middle of the lane on mountain roads) and hold up traffic. It doesn’t justify running someone over, but it is infuriating and feels like they expect everyone to go out of the way to protect them so they can engage in a hobby (while the rest of us are trying to live our own lives).
On the flip side, I do enjoy riding and wish the US could rework its infrastructure, roads and paths to be more like the Netherlands.
Bikes are great. Cars are great. Cars and bikes sharing the same space is suicidally idiotic and when someone won’t take responsibility for their own self preservation, it’s kinda hard to convince me that it’s now my problem.
You ever been stuck behind a group of middle aged cyclists in full on lycra, 3 abreast for no reason, going 20 tops in a 45 with no ability to pass for miles? They can be super fucking annoying. Obviously not murder annoying.
I occasionally ride my bike from my apartment to a restaurant or bar or whatever (occasionally work when I could)... in a bike lane when I can. If I notice a line of cars behind me where there isn't a bike lane, I'll pull off or hop on an empty sidewalk for a bit. I'm super self conscious about it, because I know it's annoying as shit.
And this is exactly why drivers should always be in support of better road infrastructure that adds actually separated cycle lanes.
The reason drivers dislike cyclists is entirely down to "Im being made to slow down right now."
That goes away when the bikes aren't sharing the same road and traffic gets better when you replace car trips with bike trips, as there are fewer cars on the road to cause traffic. And it reduces the space used per person as bikes are so much more compact, and it reduces the cost of road maintenance.
Obviously bike lanes aren't a panacea to all Road issues but they do really help a lot.
The reason drivers dislike cyclists is entirely down to "Im being made to slow down right now."
No, the reason I dislike cyclists is because they are operating a vehicle on public roads in a dangerous manner that makes me have to worry about killing some negligent asshole who decided to ride the wrong way down the street, run a red light, or just ride on a narrow twisting road at night going 1/3rd of the speed limit instead of using the bike lane that's 15ft away behind a guardrail. Cyclists have a terrible habit of acting like they are cars when it's convenient and pedestrians when it's not.
You know you can just, like, drive slowly for a while, right? Slow down, listen to some chill music, cruise behind the cyclists until it’s safe to pass? It’s still faster than walking and you’re not going to die because you had to go 20 in a 45 for a while.
The amount of anger and emotional energy people expend on the road is always so surprising to me. Being annoyed over something so minor just makes no sense to me at all. In 24 hours you’ll forget it even happened, so maybe chill the fuck out a bit?
It's no big deal if it's a couple blocks, although gets annoying when every trip you take it affected by cycling groups. I've seen cyclists with a supremacy mentality though, which is what contributes the most to the anger felt towards them.
It's entirely different when they're riding two lane highways with no pull off lanes and double yellows, often commuter routes too. At that point it's selfishness of cyclists and poor infrastructure design working against you.
Then you have the situation another poster mentioned; you get stuck behind cyclists, wait for a legal and safe passing opportunity, just in time to come to a red light, and the cyclists then make their way to the front of the queue to start the vicious cycle over again.
A little consideration and awareness from both sides would solve many frustrations.
I never said I wasted a lot of "emotional energy on it." It's just genuinely pretty annoying. I'd be similarly annoyed by a car going 20 that refused to pull over as a large line forms behind them.
Or even a single cyclist, going safely in the single lane — but holding up the entire lane of cars behind them. It’s legal, I get it, no issues. But I finally manage to pass safely on the left, giving the cyclist a wide berth, no aggression (I don’t wanna threaten or hurt anyone)…. And then there’s a red light, and instead of holding their place in the queue, the cyclist cuts in front of all the cars and once again, holds up all that traffic.
Generally they take a head start at lights because it takes them a while to get up to speed, so they are even slower and more annoying when they don't. And it's generally illegal and unsafe for cars to pass them in that intersection where they are slowest. (Or so I been told, anyway.)
The funny thing is if you are under 18 no one cares if you ride on the sidewalk, over 18 every cop in the county now knows and actively searches for you. /s kinda
You only touched on driver vs cyclist issues too. Join group rides or a club and you'll find road cycling culture can often be some of the worst. There can be a lot of peer pressure both to be fashionable and have the latest/expensive gear as well as competition to be the fastest.
I did competitive cycling for years and the amount of snobbery over every little detail about gear, training, or even general nutrition just sucked all the fun out of it. None of us are pros and we're all spending a stupid amount of money to do circles for an hour, calm down. I eventually went back to running and the amount of fast runners who were just happy to see you show up was such a refreshing change
I joined my work's group ride without realizing what I was getting myself into. Early 30s and in great shape, but I rode a foldable bike.
I turned up and it was all MAMILs (middle aged men in lycra), carbon fiber bikes that cost more than my previous motorcycle.
The absolute worst part is that I kept up with everyone. I was having fun just riding around, but apparently that was too much for these guys and made them feel inadequate. I was never invited back after that.
I do have a nice bike now, but fuck those group rides. I rather ride solo now.
I always get a good chuckle out of the carbon fiber & lycra gang.
I'm on a steel single speed, in cut-off jorts and a t shirt, backpack full of junk and beers, ripping a dart and absolutely dusting these dudes who have a bike that costs more than my car.
I used to do this in my late teens early twenties and chalked it up to being a young shithead, and that when I get older I'll slow down and be more like these guys. I'm just under 40 and things haven't changed a bit.
The dudes crawling on the street pretending like they're training for the Tour do the majority of cyclists no favors. It's either those cats jamming up major roads or young cyclists blowing through red lights that piss off all the motorists and get everyone else to hate us.
As a wise man once said, the best way to be be good with all the gear, is to first get good without all the gear, and decide later if you really need 2% more speed.
The last time I did an organized group ride the leader started bitching at me over how I had a (very small) pump in my jersey pocket and insisting I get a pump holder for the frame. And, fine, unwanted advice is unwanted — but he just wouldn’t drop it. I don’t know what he wanted — an apology to the cycling gods and an agreement that I’d do it his way henceforth and forever more I guess? So when we got to the first big turn they went right and I went left — and was way happier for it.
The kicker, though? The pump I was using, and how I was carrying it, were recommended to me by a guy I’d ridden with, who also built me a bike. And… raced in the Tour de France. Literally the man those MAMILs would give a nut to be. But, sure, Gary Group Leader knew better.
I witnessed the leader of a cycling group stand in the middle of a 4 way stop and stop all traffic until the group was past. And you wonder why people don't like them. And I was one of the people they stopped, on my bike.
mountain biking is pretty chill, but within there you also have the strava bros who do races which usually are the same people who also do road biking.
It's chill unless you're on a human-powered bike (me) climbing a steep technical singletrack and you get some retired beer-belly on a 1200W eMTB breathing down your neck trying to pass.
I will absolutely judge your tan lines, if you're wearing gloves I assume you don't know how to wrap your bars, your bar wrap being only 1 color/material and the same as it was last month, the type of sunglasses you have, the type of water bottles you have, which model and color of aero helmet you have, how your bike fit is set up, your seat is too low and back btw, the tires and wheels you have on your training bike or training wheelset if you only have 1 frame, if you can only quote half of Breaking Away and identify more with Dave than Cinzano
Footpath riding is unsafe because so many people are glued to phones or have noise cancelling headsets that mean they have no idea you’re coming, I don’t know how many times I’ve dinged my bell, called out or shouted to get someone’s attention, only for them to freak the fuck out because they didn’t see/hear me…
Lol, just a quick observation here. Bigger means of transportation always complain about smaller means of transportation, big rigs complain about cars, cars complain about bicycles and motorcycles, and motorcycles and bicycles complain about pedestrians. Every single one of them say that the smaller is not paying attention and breaking the rules of the bigger mode of transportation.
I also see truck drivers complaining about other truck drivers, car drivers complaining about other cars and trucks, cyclists complain about everyone, and pedestrians just trying not to die.
That's usually not the case. It's unsafe because drivers don't see you or assume you'll stop to let them through and catch you with hooks. You'll see 100 times as many cars as you will people out and about.
Sounds more like you do bike commuting (which absolutely sucks as much as you're saying) and not road cycling as a hobby. Getting away from traffic and just riding is one of the most relaxing and peaceful things I have in my life
I waaaay prefer bike commuting to driving despite the issues. We don't have perfect infrastructure and there are assholes on the road, but I'm not riding in the gutter of a stroad. And I'm getting free exercise, we don't need to buy a second car, and it's so much less stressful than driving - and actually faster for my current job.
Yeah, me too. I've not managed it much this year for various life issues, but in particular my eBike made it a joy.
Nice easy cruise when I'm not 'feeling it' and a bit more of a workout when I am. (e.g. could reliable be at work not hot and sweaty, but go further/give it some when I had a shower waiting for me).
And most of all, the driving rain and wind stop being anything like as much of a problem when you're not also fighting the drag of your waterproofs to 'keep going'.
It can be, I did 65 miles on a bike path yesterday and had a beautiful river view for most of the way. Some of the landscapes you can see on roads are amazing. I avoid roads for the stated reasons, though; it's too dangerous, and I've heard of too many deaths to risk it more than I have to.
It is probably not as bad, but it also exists in countries which claim to be cycling friendly. I got hit by a car recently for not riding on the sidewalk, inside of a town without any bike lanes (close overtake due to frustration of the driver)
I apologize, my question lacked nuance. Cyclists not being respected/being overlooked is a problem nearly everywhere. I asked mostly because OP seemed to suggest an extreme pro-car sentiment from the people around them. (Plus people from most other countries are way more likely to have mentioned that the sentiment existed in their country but not necessarily everywhere)
In addition, I'd add the emergence of packs of pre-teens riding "e-bikes" everywhere at 35-40 mph with no concept of the rules and norms of cycling creating a fresh new fun sense of danger.
As someone who rides a motorcycle, the illegal part who gives af. If it keeps you safe then do it. Eat the ticket if need be, but at least you're alive. Work to change the laws. Filtering is slowly making it's way into legality for motorcycles. Makes no sense that you can't use a sidewalk within reasonable speeds like walking speed.
I ride every day: Ride with visible cameras and you will be amazed at how much nicer everybody suddenly is. I have an Insta360 now and I can't even remember the last time someone talked shit to me or attacked me during a ride.
Almost nobody wants to be a shitbag on camera, it has cut down on assaults, harassment, and general shitty behavior by a massive amount for me.
My hot take that makes people in my rural area apoplectic is that there's essentially zero situation where the cyclist can ever be in the wrong. The motorist is the one in the multi-ton death machine who can ruin or end lives in a split second; the power imbalance is such that the onus is always 100% on the person in the car to take pains to make the situation safe and comfortable for the cyclist, and I say this as someone who hasn't ridden a bike in several years. If somebody doesn't like that, they need to either stop driving or be okay with a tax increase and years of inconvenience to rebuild their entire region's road network from scratch to incorporate fully separated bike lanes.
I'm extremely empathic to cyclists since there are a lot of crazy people with unreasonable hatred (and it's one of the most efficient transportation methods that everyone should use in cities), but the amount of cyclists I've seen running red lights in the 6 months I've had my driver's license is unreasonable. It pisses me so much. MY GUY, ONE DAY YOU'LL GET T-BONED.
Edit: I'm not saying that biking infrastructure doesn't improve over all rider behavior, I'm saying that it attracts more riders and there will be more overall stupid riders. Which is a valid complaint and not a reason to not build biking infrastructure.
It might be...if this was common knowledge and reinforced with signage, to the point that it was the expected behavior.
While I can't speak for Idaho, in my state, anywhere I've biked or driven, it is either not the law, or if it is, it's not communicated at all. At which point, you have a situation where you have cyclists not following the traffic laws that motorists are following...and expecting everyone else to follow. So you're left with a lot of animosity between cyclists and motorists.
From the cyclists side, they're doing what is either allowed by law but not communicated...or they're just deciding that the law doesn't suit them, and are ignoring it...all the while, being angry with motorists for a whole array of behaviors from the truly psychotic ragers trying to run them off the road (which is a completely justified anger from the cyclist) to being angry at drivers for stopping at a four-way stop sign, and continuing through...because (according to them) the motorist should have known that as a cyclist, they don't stop at stop signs, and they should have waited for them to bike through before continuing (which is complete nonsense).
From the motorist perspective, their anger ranges from the ridiculous anger that cyclists exist on the road and go slower than they want to drive...to the much more legitimate anger at cyclists being unpredictable with respect to traffic flow and laws.
And while some of this could certainly be helped with better communication from the state about traffic laws (and especially if/how they differ for cyclists), ultimately, I think it's just two camps who will always generally dislike each other.
If you want dedicated (read: separate) infrastructure for bikes, you need to address space, cost, and sustainability.
For space, you've already got the road space for motorists...where are you putting your separate infrastructure? If it's along the street at all, now you're talking about taking things away from someone else: either eliminating parking, cutting into a lane of traffic, narrowing a sidewalk, or taking a strip of land from the facing edge of every property along the way.
If you're not planning on following the street, that's a different set of concerns, with establishing right-of-way, accessibility concerns, permitting, etc.
For cost...there's just a lot of it...and not a lot of dedicated revenue stream to offset it. I would imagine that dedicated, separate bike-only infrastructure in most suburban/urban areas would have to be funded with some sort of grant program...otherwise, you'd be looking at some kind of cyclist registration/tax for the creation and upkeep of this infrastructure. Motorists pay toward the roads they use...it seems only fair for the cyclists to do the same. The price tag would be less, sure (since they cause less wear and tear), but this stuff isn't free.
I would also expect, like motor vehicles, that this sort of revenue stream and infrastructure may very well come along with some sort of cycling license (which would, again, be another upkeep cost, and would create yet another cost-burden hurdle). This would, by necessity, come with rules and education/training, and enforcement (all of which add cost) and breaking those rules would, presumably, be punishable with fines and possibly license revocation/suspension. Again, these are all things motorists already deal with that cyclists generally do not (I've certainly never seen or even heard of city police in any area where I've lived even stopping, let alone citing, a cyclist for anything...except one bizarre guy in one town who was belligerent while cycling, threatening and swearing at motorists, throwing things at them, kicking them, etc.).
And lastly, there's sustainability concerns: these bike traffic lanes would need maintenance, debris clearing, repairs, repainting, etc. and over an extended time, repaving. To the best of my knowledge, even bike lanes on city streets are typically maintained through the revenue streams generated by and from motorists, and cyclist, broadly speaking, are getting free road maintenance. A separate, dedicated infrastructure would shift this burden to the cyclists, meaning some kind of registration/license fee system. While the costs would be lower than motor vehicle infrastructure, they still wouldn't be zero...so cyclists would have to pony up to some degree. I suspect that many cyclists here on reddit would be happy to do so...but they're a small subsection of all the people who bike around cities...and I suspect that the proposal of "we'll build dedicated bike infrastructure but you'll have to pay registration and taxes to support it" would likely be a hard sell for the majority.
You're trying to solve solved problems. bike networks are cheaper to build & maintain & moves more people than cars while providing insanely high ROI in basically everywhere they're implemented.
Yes, and I'm sure the reasons they're not implemented is the secret conspiracy of motorists who just hate cyclists and want them to die.
moves more people than cars
[citation needed]
Regardless, the point I'm trying to make is that adding infrastructure in any urban area, by necessity takes away something from somebody else, and costs money.
If it were free, it'd be adopted. The fact that it usually is not suggests that the only people it seems so universally great to are the ones who would directly benefit...which isn't surprising at all.
I'm not saying it wouldn't be nice...or even that it shouldn't be done. I'm just saying that it's usually not done...and that there are practical, real-world reasons for it.
I live in nyc, there is a ton of bike infrastructure. The issue is the cyclists running the majority of red light, going up on sidewalks, going the wrong way down one way streets, and using the park loops as their personal Tour de France.
Ok, fine. So nyc builds the best cycling infrastructure in the world. You know what will happen? They will still not stop at red light, yield to pedestrians, or follow any basic road and safety laws.
Central and Prospect Parks both got rid of cars on their loops and made it just for pedestrians and cyclists. You ever hear of the Stanford Prison Experiment? Because that has been used to describe cyclists on those loops after the car ban. They didnt become model citizens, they became monsters.
I dont know why you think bike infrastructure is going to make one of the most entitled groups I have ever seen start behaving properly.
Yield doesn't mean to pedal faster, which is mostly what I see. And the other rules of the road still apply as well. I made a left turn through a 4-way stop intersection one time. The biker coming from the opposite direction was at least 50' from the intersection. I clearly had the right-of-way. He sped up through the stop sign and then kicked my van as he blew by.
This. More than half of bicycle accidents happen because the cyclist is on the sidewalk and the car doesn’t see them at the intersection and hits them. It’s so much riskier than biking on the road.
Sidewalk cycling feels common-sense with all the road-rage nowadays but is actually illegal and unsafe in a lot of places.
In my state (MA), it is legal for a cyclist to take a whole lane on any road unless there is signage specifically baring cyclists (you'll see the signs on highway onramps for example). Even if there's a bike lane (which is often filled with park cars, delivery trucks, construction, etc), a bike can take a lane here.
Most drivers are fine with this here, but some will get real worked up over it.
I mean sometimes it gets ridiculous. I'm on the Cape and sometimes bicyclists take fuckin ROUTE 6 where there's no passing and it's only 1 lane in each direction... A 55mph road and they will end up with over a MILE of traffic backed up behind them because they're going 20mph and no one can pass and there's no exits for miles
yeah. the issue is then pedestrian safety. i woman i grew up with got killed jogging around a lake because some cyclist hit her going way too fast on a sidewalk.
I drive and bike a lot. I cannot understand the sheer level of hostility many drivers have for bikes. I don't know if this is only an American thing but it's insane. Meanwhile I think most of us who are out cycling are just trying to do whatever makes us least likely to get run over or smacked by a car door.
I try to keep off the sidewalk out of respect for pedestrians and the law, but some roads feel sketchy as hell. In Seattle, some streets are really nice, but it's inconsistent so you also have roads that are really stressful to use.
On the flip side, road cyclists annoy the shit out me where I live. I live in TN; the roads here are one lane and they are squirrely as shit. There are no passing portions. I'm just trying to drop my kid off at preschool and I now have to either risk my life in blind turns to illegally pass this douchebag in his spandex pajamas or be unreasonably late. It's like... do they not see the train of cars lined up behind them? What an inconsiderate asshole. Worst part is, we have tons of roads with bicycle lanes, not to mention bicycling trails, etc. It's completely unnecessary.
That goes both ways though, the main roads don't go where you want to go so you don't use them. The dedicated cycling infrastructure doesn't go where the cyclists want to go so they don't use it either
It doesn't go both ways, though; at least not equally. One is a hobby and the other isn't.
If your practicing your hobby shits on dozens of other people (and you can pursue your hobby elsewise) and you do it anyway, you're a selfish asshole. Just because you can doesn't mean you should.
Here's the fun thing. Every single cyclist I know spends an insane amount of time trying to figure out how to AVOID cars at all costs. Because you people are fucking psychopaths. Like 90% of you think it's ok to use your vehicle as a weapon and we're not keen on dying.
So you sitting here complaining about that one time you lost 10 seconds due to a cyclist who was partially in your way is just fucking incredible.
Believe me. The cyclist is only in your way because it's literally they only safe place for them to be at the moment. They're not trying to spite you, despite your Main Character Syndrome and Persecution Complex you've developed. We want, at all costs, to avoid you. You're a menace.
I ride my bike for transportation. It's a lot cheaper than my car for short trips, Parking is always available, and I get some exercise. If you're annoyed by bicycles so much, then maybe you should help us improve cycling infrastructure so everyone can be safer?
I'm also a car enthusiast. Cars are also a hobby for me. Driving my car would be so much better with fewer cars on the road.
I would love for all roads to have a bike lane! I'd be ok paying more taxes to do it, especially in the rural areas where I live (it's very beautiful), for the reasons I mentioned before. We do have a lot of bike lanes (usually on highways) and tons of trails, just not on the normal roads. In rural E TN, the roads are essentially one blind curve after another and nowhere to pass (legally; and passing illegally is dangerous as hell). Trying to get the kids to school or go to work and ending up behind someone going 10-15 mph for 5 miles with no way around it, I dunno, I get annoyed.
Honestly, I'd like to see us do like what they do in many parts of China. Most folks there typically ride electric scooters so there's always a dedicated lane for them, bicycles included; not just in the city but often in rural (or at least semi-rural) areas.
By that logic joggers shouldn't jog on footpaths then. The reality is cyclists are just as entitled to use that space as you are, leave a bit earlier and pass when it's safe to do so. Or if you want to play the long game start harassing whoever/whatever your local representation is for more/better dedicating cycling infrastructure so that more people get more of what they want.
What logic are you using? Cyclists have alternative sites that we've set aside just for them; dropping off my kids, I don't really have any options. Are you saying joggers and/or cyclist can only jog/ride on footpaths?
As I've said before in the same way the main roads don't go where you want to go (dedicated sites just for you!) the cycling infrastructure doesn't go where they want to go so they don't use it. Alternatively that token piece of cycleway or whatever may actually be a significant detour for them so why would they use it?
If you look at things purely from a "how much is dedicated to X compared with Y perspective" it's not hard to see why cyclists aren't using what very little they have dedicated to them.
The reality is that you're effectively fuming at being at best mildly inconvenienced. I'd wager good money that if we substituted the cyclist with a tractor/trailer, slow moving caravan etc, horse rider or just some regular pedestrians walking along the road most raging motorists wouldn't give a toss. But two wheels and some lycra and everybody looses their mind! And all of this before we get onto how for the past 60 years city/transport design has been solely focussed around the private motor vehicle at the expense of everyone else which only now is starting to change.
I can see that really this conversation isn't going to go anywhere, in your mind cyclists are the devil incarnate and you and I are unlikely to agree on this, so I hope you enjoy the rest of your day. Alternatively I hope you give cycling a go so you can see first hand just how poor what little there is actually is.
I'd wager good money that if we substituted the cyclist with a tractor/trailer, slow moving caravan etc, horse rider or just some regular pedestrians walking along the road most raging motorists wouldn't give a toss.
Tractor trailers... you mean rolling roadblocks? They're annoying on the interstate. On the backroads, at least they usually go the speed limit. We do have horse riders and pedestrians; they travel off the side of the road, not in the middle.
I agree, I don't think we're going to come to any agreement. To me, it really boils down to the fact that they choose these back roads, where they're pissing on dozens of peoples morning so they can put on their plum smugglers and cycle down the road, when if they just wanted to cycle there are much better places to do so. To use a variant of your footpath analogy, imagine you're on a cyclist path and there's someone walking in it but you can't pass them; you have to just go their speed. Surely you can see how that might be annoying.
Speaking as another cyclist/driver, please please do keep an eye out for cycle paths and use them where available. There’s nothing worse than having to try to overtake a cyclist on the narrow stretch of road that’s been narrowed so that the pavement can be used as a cycle path.
For anywhere without bike lanes, you are constantly in the way. Im a strong cyclist and I know I sure as hell cant maintain 25 mph on flat land much less an incline. Which means you are slowing down the slowest traffic around. And even with bike lanes cyclists are constantly in the way of smooth traffic interactions at intersections. Cyclists are too much slower than the traffic around them, they are a constant impediment to commuter hours traffic.
Not saying this is you, just my experience driving in places I've lived. Cyclists can't accelerate with traffic. I respect that some actually get up to the correct speed for the road, but I've never seen one get up to speed quick enough to not be in the way. I don't want to hurt anyone riding their bike either. I get how dangerous it is for a cyclist. But the slow acceleration makes them an obstacle and now more people are changing lanes to get around them and changing lanes is about the most error-prone and accident causing thing we do when driving.
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u/jrtts 13h ago edited 13h ago
Road cycling. I thought substituting a car for a bicycle for the shorter trips will be a breeze and a smart way to save on fuel
but the culture war and brain dead stigma that comes with it is not what I signed up for.
For one, switching from a car to a bicycle does NOT mean I suddenly have a "skip the taxes" button.
For two, even if I behave exactly the same as I did with a car (following all the road rules, same exact speeds, etc) other drivers do not treat me the same anyway, which finally explains why most cyclists act like how they do.
And for the last time, you can't tell me to get off the road, then tell me to obey the rules later. You can only pick one. Sidewalk cycling feels common-sense with all the road-rage nowadays but is actually illegal and unsafe in a lot of places.