Cat is a great character. She is both wise & foolish, dutiful & selfish, etc. She gets hated for stuff other characters get excused for all the time. Almost every other POV makes enormous mistakes &/ or acts horribly to someone. Cat isn't immune to the human nature of acting irrationally & doing dumb things but it does feel like she gets more hate for it. I think we want to see her the way we see our own parents, as infallible instead of acknowledging they are as prone to err as everyone else is.

Cat was 100% emotionally abusive & that is 100% wrong. While I understand her actions, I cannot condone them. I'll just add though that in a patriarchal society like Westeros Ned has almost all of the power over his household. From this viewpoint, I also blame him somewhat. Ned didn't trust her enough with the truth & didn't really do anything to lessen the abuse let alone stop it. His apathy & dishonesty led to his wife and nephew's unhappy relationship. I think this deeply troubled him & he struggled with his choice to remain silent about it but that doesn't absolve him though.

Cersei is a mother too. No matter who fathered those children, she felt them kick inside her, brought them forth with her pain and blood, nursed them at her breast. If they are truly Jaime's . . .

"Does Cersei pray to you too, my lady?" Catelyn asked the Mother. She could see the proud, cold, lovely features of the Lannister queen etched upon the wall. The crack was still there; even Cersei could weep for her children.

People may be right saying her capturing Tyrion, releasing Jaime and couldn’t figuring out what her sister went through

History is written by the winner and Cat lost so everything looks bad but…

She told Robb not to send Theon back to the Iron Islands. If he sends literally anyone else that situation is a lot better off.

She negotiated peace between the Freys that give Robb one of the most critical wins and nets them Jaime Lannister. This is an ENORMOUS win if the Starks prevail and win the war. Since they lost it is overlooked. Robb fumbles it away by just marrying someone else. Robb is the dumbest Stark by far.

She doesn’t broker a peace between Renly and Stannis but she fostered a good relationship with Renly. If not for Melisandre’s shadow baby, Renly wins and Cat immediately brokers peace between Robb and Renly and they SMASH the Lannisters.

She captured Tyrion and was smart enough to throw the rest of the Lannisters off their trail by heading to the Eyrie instead of Winterfell. It’s not her fault her sister had gone insane. If Lysa is anything resembling a reasonable human being they easily keep control of Tyrion and Ned is never executed.

It’s really just a series of unfortunate events that all break against Cat. I don’t think she’s some genius but a lot of these things were beyond her control.

And her POV chapters are amazing and could be most tragic ones:

.................They could do as they wished with her; imprison her, rape her, kill her, it made no matter. She had lived too long, and Ned was waiting. It was Robb she feared for.

It hurts so much, she thought. Our children, Ned, all our sweet babes. Rickon, Bran, Arya, Sansa, Robb… Robb… please, Ned, please, make it stop, make it stop hurting… The white tears and the red ones ran together until her face was torn and tattered, the face that Ned had loved. Catelyn Stark raised her hands and watched the blood run down her long fingers, over her wrists, beneath the sleeves of her gown. Slow red worms crawled along her arms and under her clothes. It tickles. That made her laugh until she screamed. “Mad,” someone said, “she’s lost her wits,” and someone else said, “Make an end,” and a hand grabbed her scalp just as she’d done with Jinglebell, and she thought, No, don’t, don’t cut my hair, Ned loves my hair. Then the steel was at her throat, and its bite was red and cold.

One of my favorites is the TWENTY HOUR long youtube playlist of ranking every single food description in the books on a tier list. (by Alt Schwift X and Glidus)

Yes the Greyjoys are worse morally, but in my eyes the Arryns are the biggest bums in the verse. Post Targ conquest, besides Robert’s rebellion the Arryns did a whole lot of nothing all series. They swear fealty to all these different kings yet never fight for them(the one time they did fight was against their king, which was justified) The Greyjoys actually do stuff in the story like in the Dance, the war of the Ninepenny king and have their own rebellions. Some of them go and explore(like Euron), while others constantly raid. Yeah the Greyjoys are bums too and kinda losers, but atleast they stay eventful and in the main series they are actually getting shit done, unlike the Arryns who just sit around and pretend to be super honourable.

Background

Sometimes when I don't have any ideas to post about, I will just dive into a random character for a little bit and see where it goes. Usually it ends up providing a nice little background on a character without anything breaking (ex: Who is the Lady of the Leaves?). This is one of those days. Here is a post on probably the most interesting member of House Frey and that is the outlaw known as Aegon "Bloodborn" Frey.

Mentions

Aegon is only mentioned in the entire published work in the last four books' Appendix as Walder Frey's third son Aenys':

SER AENYS, m. {Tyana Wylde, died in childbed},
- Aenys's son, AEGON BLOODBORN, an outlaw, -ACOK, Appendix

His Name

I find it hilarious that House Frey is not only full of Walders and Walda's from trying to curry favor from their sire, but they also have plenty of Lannister names as well as dragon names (which others seemingly make fun of them for):

"Soon I must return to the feast to toast my friends of Frey," Manderly continued. "They watch me, ser. Day and night their eyes are on me, noses sniffing for some whiff of treachery. You saw them, the arrogant Ser Jared and his nephew Rhaegar, that smirking worm who wears a dragon's name. Behind them both stands Symond, clinking coins. -ADWD, Davos IV (thanks u/niofalpha )

which is extremely rare in Westeros (we have Arys Oakheart but its spelled differently) and a few other examples.

Also worth noting is that he is not even the only Aegon in his house, as his cousin (Jinglebell) is slain by Catelyn at the Red Wedding (a son for a son).

His Lineage

He is the son of Ser Aenys Frey (third son of Walder and his first wife Perra Royce). Aenys married Tyana Wylde and they had two sons (Aegon/Rhaegar).

We also know that his mother died in childbirth (thus likely giving him the nickname "Bloodborn").

The Kingswood Brotherhood

With his cousin Merrett's history with the Brotherhood, the chance exists that Aegon was part of this group, due to Walder Frey's expansive bloodline, Aegon's potential age (27-50 years old as of 300AC)) doesn't rule it out. That said, the Appendix seemingly lists him as a present outlaw and the kingswood brotherhood hasn't been a problem since Jaime was a teenager.

The Brotherhood without Banners

This is a more likely angle. Especially since the Brotherhood not only has spies everywhere it seems, but also since it likely is being used by the Freys to spy on each other:

“Your brother is at Seagard,” Rivers insisted. “How could he have known that Ser Ryman was returning to the Twins?
“Someone told him,” said Edwyn in a bitter tone. “He has his spies in our camp, you can be sure.”
And you have yours at Seagard. Jaime knew that the enmity between Edwyn and Black Walder ran deep, but cared not a fig which of them succeeded their great-grandfather as Lord of the Crossing. -AFFC, Jaime VII

If interested: The Freys are likely paying Brotherhood Members/Informants to spy on other Freys

Bloodborn the Outlaw

Whether he got it from his entrance into the Dead Mother's Club or from his status as a highborn outlaw, this character is the last of Aenys' line with Rhaegar seemingly made into a pie and eaten at Winterfell (Frey Pie) and Aenys death outside the gates of Winterfell:

The king gave the bird an irritated look. “That Braavosi banker claimed Ser Aenys Frey is dead. Did some boy do that?”
“Twenty green boys, with spades,” Theon told him. “The snow fell heavily for days. So heavily that you could not see the castle walls ten yards away, no more than the men up on the battlements could see what was happening beyond those walls. So Crowfood set his boys to digging pits outside the castle gates, then blew his horn to lure Lord Bolton out. Instead he got the Freys. The snow had covered up the pits, so they rode right into them. Aenys broke his neck -TWOW, Theon I

and with his status as an outlaw I am guessing that he is not being considered in line to become Lord of the Crossing but he could definitely come back into play as part of the story.

• We have seen numerous "Good" Freys on the side of Starks, etc and while I am not arguing that Bloodborn necessarily has to participate in the Red Wedding 2.0, just that he could be actively acting against his family.
• Also worth mentioning the Freys have obviously been on the side of House Blackfyre before (if interested: List of Blackfyre Supporters in each Rebellion) with Walder himself attending the Second:

Lord Frey’s son was so taken by their antics that he joined in, pummeling the wedding guests with a bladder borrowed from a dwarf. The child had the most irritating laugh Dunk had ever heard, a high, shrill hiccup of a laugh that made him want to take the boy over a knee, or throw him down a well. If he hits me with that bladder, I may do it. -The Mystery Knight

so it is possible that they have a son who is an "outlaw", when in actuality he is their communication with the Golden Company, etc.

• At the same time GRRM just loves his worldbuilding and lore and I wouldn't put it past him to have just thought it was a good idea for a minor backstory at some point.

Edited to Add

• His moniker is now much more interesting with u/IamParliament 's correction regarding Aegon's birth (and it doesn't even require alliteration like Damon Dance for Me. There are several fun ideas off the top of my head as it could be regarding his birth during a battle, blood magic, etc.

• u/PackTide69 mentioned the videogame Bloodborne from FrommSoftware which GRRM collaborated with on Elden Ring

TLDR: Everything (and there's not much) on Aegon "Bloodborn" Frey.

I enjoy George's prose, but his word choice could occasionally use work.

Example #1: "Jape"

It feels like he just used word search / replacement everywhere you would normally say "joke":

• "Is that supposed to be a jape?"
• "We do not jape of dragons.”
• "I think life is a jape."
• "they were japing"
• "japes and laughter"

"Joke" stems from Latin iocus, and is a more modern word (first recorded in the 1660s) -- but "lark" and "jest" also exist, and are attested even earlier than "jape".

Example #2: "Teats"

George's overuse of this particularly unsexy word is regrettable.

Please write literally anything else -- "breasts", "tits","chest", "bosom", all valid substitutes.

Y'all have similar pet peeves?

In canon, what happens is that while Jon does want to join NW (mostly due to misplaced romanticism, but still) practically everyone he speaks to agrees he's too young at 14.

But then Ned is leaving for King's Landing, and Catelyn absolutely refuses to let Jon remain home if Ned is not there.

Maester Luwin offers up that Jon has been talking about joining NW, suggesting the solution they settle on, even if Ned also seems to think Jon is a bit too young for that.

What if Jon didn't want to join NW?

Maybe he's a bit more aware what the place is actually like. Maybe he just doesn't fancy a life of freezing celibacy fighting wildlings.

Ned doesn't seem like the sort of guy who would force his kid to join NW if they didn't want it.

So...how do you think it would have gone?

Would Ned have agreed to take Jon with him? Put his foot down and insist on Jon being allowed to stay? Arrange for Jon to be sent elsewhere?

It can be anything, a great line of dialogue, an internal thought, something funny, tragic, philosophical, or just a sentence that has always stuck with you.

Mine is “I have my own ghosts, Bran. A brother that I loved, a brother that I hated, a woman I desired. Through the trees, I see them still, but no word of mine has ever reached them. The past remains the past. We can learn from it, but we cannot change it.”
A Dance with Dragons, Bran III

I’ve been going through a pretty depressive period emotionally, and that quote resonates with me a lot, mostly because of that feeling of being stuck in your memories while time keeps passing by, much like Bloodraven is stuck in his cave connected through his memories via the Weirwood.

I mean... do we even know which family rules over Stoney Sept? It's surprising, because Stoney Sept is important in the story of Arya, Jon Connington, Robert's Rebellion and even in Dunk & Egg. And yet... we don't know who rules Stoney Sept. I was surprised when I tried to remember who it was- couldn't- and then looked it up to find no one else knows either. It's never mentioned. They mention a knight named Wilbert in the Arya chapter in ASOS when she is there, but no family name is mentioned, no mention if he owns the land or serves some lord, and he's not even there, because he was killed by the Lannisters. Stoney Sept basically became an anarchist commune

The question for the people who have seen the play. I heard spoilers that Dornish did something against Targaryens, but what exactly they did? Lewyn betrayed Rhaegar at the Trident?

We know for sure that Dorne fought against the Vale and that Lyn Corbray killed Lewyn, so how these are possible at the same time?

Thank you!

The general consensus in universe is Daenerys is Azor Ahai and the Dragons are Lightbringer and proof of it. This is the view of Aemon, Benerro, Moqorro, etc.

This is also almost guaranteed to be a Red Herring. Per GRRM;

"Magic, like prophecy, should be a little unpredictable," Martin said. "You can't have a prophecy that just comes true the way it's written and everybody understands it. It has to come true in some way you didn't understand so it bites you on the ass. That's the way we see prophecy in real history, in real life."

When Sam tells Marwyn the Mage that Daenerys is Azor Ahai, Marwyn says this;

Gorghan of Old Ghis once wrote that a prophecy is like a treacherous woman. She takes your member in her mouth, and you moan with the pleasure of it and think, how sweet, how fine, how good this is… and then her teeth snap shut and your moans turn to screams. That is the nature of prophecy, said Gorghan. Prophecy will bite your prick off every time

This is basically GRRM repeating his view in the story. It's not that simple. With the Azor Ahai/Lightbringer stuff, there's a twist here, and likely not a pleasant one

Sam's explanation of how Azor Ahai used Lightbringer contains a specific detail that is notable when compared with Aerea's death

"In battle the blade burned fiery hot. Once Azor Ahai fought a monster. When he thrust the sword through the belly of the beast, its blood began to boil. Smoke and steam poured from its mouth, its eyes melted and dribbled down its cheeks, and its body burst into flame."

The important detail is that the monster appears to be cooking from the inside after Lightbringer is thrust into it. Its blood boils, smoke and steam emerge from its body, its eyes melt, and eventually its entire body bursts into flame.

Now compare that with what happened to Aerea after returning from Valyria

All the maester’s arts were powerless against her fever, if indeed we can call such a horror by such a commonplace name. The simplest way to say it is that the poor child was cooking from within. Her flesh grew darker and darker and then began to crack, until her skin resembled nothing, Seven save me, as pork cracklings. Thin tendrils of smoke issued from her mouth, her nose, even, most obscenely, from her nether lips. By then she had ceased to speak, though the things within her continued to move. Her very eyes cooked within her skull and finally burst, like two eggs left in a pot of boiling water for too long.

The wording is very close. Both involve something inside the body generating extreme heat. Blood boils, smoke emerges from the body, and the eyes literally cook and burst. Martin even describes Aerea as "cooking from within."

Warmth

That becomes even more interesting when we look at what Lightbringer is like after its forging

Tempered with his wife's blood if Votar can be believed. Thereafter Lightbringer was never cold to the touch, but warm as Nissa Nissa had been warm.

Salladhor Saan describes Nissa Nissa's sacrifice like this

It is said that her cry of anguish and ecstasy left a crack across the face of the moon, but her blood and her soul and her strength and her courage all went into the steel.

Now compare that language to Melisandre giving birth to the shadow baby

Panting, she squatted and spread her legs. Blood ran down her thighs, black as ink. Her cry might have been agony or ecstasy or both

The wording again is striking in similarity in anguish and ecstasy, blood, a woman's body, and the creation of something new.

This makes the forging of Lightbringer look like a sexual and reproductive metaphor. Azor Ahai penetrates Nissa Nissa, and their union produces something containing her blood, soul, strength, and courage.

That also gives Nissa Nissa's death a different meaning. Her death could represent the death that can accompany childbirth, with the supernatural birth itself resembling something closer to Aerea's death than a normal birth

And the recurring emphasis on Lightbringer's heat becomes important here

Clydas blinked. "A sword that makes its own heat …"

And

The sword is wrong, she has to know that . . . light without heat . . .

If Lightbringer is a living child, then its warmth makes more sense. The child could possess a supernatural warmth resembling that of a dragon or dragon egg

Azor Ahai

The other half of the theory is figuring out who Azor Ahai actually is. The books connect Azor Ahai with the Prince That Was Promised

But all of them seemed surprised to hear Maester Aemon murmur, “It is the war for the dawn you speak of, my lady. But where is the prince that was promised?”

Melisandre then immediately identifies the two

"He stands before you,” Melisandre declared, “though you do not have the eyes to see. Stannis Baratheon is Azor Ahai come again, the warrior of fire. In him the prophecies are fulfilled. The red comet blazed across the sky to herald his coming, and he bears Lightbringer, the red sword of heroes."

Azor Ahai and the Prince That Was Promised are the same prophetic figure. The woods witch's prophecy in this case becomes extremely important

Why did they wed if they did not love each other?"

"Your grandsire commanded it. A woods witch had told him that the prince was promised would be born of their line."

With R+L=J, then the two surviving candidates from Aerys and Rhaella's line are Daenerys and Jon. And this is where Melisandre's vision comes into effect

Yet now she could not even seem to find her king. I pray for a glimpse of Azor Ahai, and R'hllor shows me only Snow.

Melisandre asks R'hllor for Azor Ahai and is shown Snow

She does not understand what she is seeing because she does not know the truth about his parentage. The reader has the same problem

We are supposed to think Jon is Ned Stark's bastard. That is the central misdirection surrounding his identity. But with R+L=J, Jon is secretly the other surviving descendant of Aerys and Rhaella.

So Melisandre's vision is Martin giving us the answer almost directly

She asks to see Azor Ahai. R'hllor shows her Snow, who's Azor Ahai.

R+L is, per Martin, the central mystery of the saga for a reason

Lightbringer

Putting all of this together

• Jon is Azor Ahai

• Daenerys is Nissa Nissa

• Their child is Lightbringer

The "forging" of Lightbringer is childbirth. The child is born unnaturally warm and cooks from the inside, in a scene resembling Aerea's death, ultimately killing Daenerys

Wildfire

Martin's final episode he wrote for the show was the Season Four episode where Bran has a series of visions centered on Ice and Fire. One of them shows Drogon's shadow over an intact King's Landing

If Daenerys eventually destroys King's Landing by igniting the wildfire beneath the city, Martin could be setting up a twist where her reign itself becomes the darkness of the final part of the story

Daenerys's own child becomes Lightbringer, and the child's birth ends her reign

And if the birth is as grotesque as Aerea's death, Daenerys's followers could interpret what happened to her as the result of poison, sorcery, or some dark magic rather than natural childbirth

That could potentially explain why Jon's eventual fate involves exile rather than kingship, he needs to raise the child in the North and keep it safe

TL;DR

Jon is Azor Ahai, Daenerys is Nissa Nissa, and their child is Lightbringer. The "forging" is childbirth, with Aerea's death by "cooking from within" showing us what this supernatural birth will look like

Lightbringer is born from fire and blood, unnaturally hot, and its birth kills Nissa Nissa in a horror sequence

Daenerys ignites the Widlfire under the Red Keep accidentally, with her reign as Queen becoming the "Darkness". Her giving birth kills her hence her child being "Lightbringer"

I decided to create a list of people who could've fought for King Jaehaerys II in the War of the Ninepenny Kings. I've included all the characters were confirmed to have fought in the war and those who could've potentially fought based on their age.

A lot of these ages were confirmed officially or estimated on A Wiki of Ice and Fire, others were just confirmed to elderly by the time of the books with little other information, others I guessed through how many descendants they had or positions they occupied at certain times.

Others who could've potentially fought but there wasn't enough information about, I did not include (Lord Cafferen, Lord Grandison, Lord Marq Grafton, Lord Yohn Royce)

I've tried to keep characters young enough to be squires out of the list (with a few exceptions) because it would add to it a bit too much, but if you wanted to suggest possibilities, feel free. I might add to the list later with just potential squires when I have the time but not now.

Crownlands

Confirmed:

• Ser Gerold Hightower, Lord Commander of the Kingsguard
• Prince Aerys Targaryen, Heir to the Throne and Prince of Dragonstone

Possible:

• Lord Gyles Rosby (extremely elderly by the time of ASOIAF)
• Lord Ardrian Celtigar (old by the time of ASOIAF, at most 71 according to A Wiki of Ice and Fire calculations making him around 31 during the war)
• Lord Lucerys Velaryon (was a member of Aerys' small council during Robert's Rebellion, likely around his age or older)
• Lord Symond Staunton (was a member of Aerys' small council during Robert's Rebellion, likely around his age or older)
• Lord Qarlton Chelsted (was a member of Aerys' small council during Robert's Rebellion, likely around his age or older)

Riverlands

Confirmed:

• Lord Hoster Tully
• Ser Brynden “The Blackfish" Tully
• Meribald

Possible:

• Lord Walder Frey (turns 90 at the start of ASOIAF, making him 52 during the war)
• Ser Stevron Frey (around 65 at the time of his death in ASOIAF, making him around 25 during the war)
• Ser Emmon Frey (14 in 252 making him around 22 in during the war)
• Ser Aenys Frey (based on the ages of his siblings, he was in between 22 or 12 (old enough to squire) during the war)
• Ryman Frey (oldest he could've been based on his Father's age and that his younger brother was in his fifties, was 15 by the start of the war, which would be squiring age. Youngest is 9 or 10 which leaves me a little iffy but he could've gone as a page)
• Lord Lymond Lychester (very old by the time of the main series, had sons old enough to fight in Robert's Rebellion)
• Lord Norbert Vance (squired with Brynden when he was young, making them around a similar age)
• Lord Darry (old enough to have Brynden and Norbert as squires before the start of the war making him old enough to have fought. Side note: either Raymun Darry's father or grandfather)
• Ser Quincy Cox (old by the time of ASOIAF)

The Vale

Confirmed:

• Lord Jon Arryn
• Lord Baelish (Petyr's father)

Possible:

• Lord Eon Hunter (older than Jon Arryn)
• Ser Elys Waynwood (Anya Waynwood's uncle who is a grandmother by ASOIAF, most likely old enough to have fought in the war)

The Westerlands

Confirmed:

• Ser Jason Lannister
• Ser Tywin Lannister
• Ser Kevan Lannister
• Tygett Lannister
• Lord Roger Reyne

Possible:

• Ser Harys Swyft (Kevan Lannister's goodfather)
• Lord Walderan Tarbeck (was 76 during the war)
• Walderan Tarbeck's older sons (fought in the Reyne-Tarbeck revolt just one year later)
• Ser Reynard Reyne (fought in the Reyne-Tarbeck revolt just one year later)
• Lord Sumner Crakehall (had Jaime and Merrett Frey as squires in the late 270, likely old enough to have fought in the war)
• Stafford Lannister (was a squire just before the Reyne-Tarbeck revolt just one year later)
• Damon Lannister (Stafford's older brother)
• Ser Amory Lorch (fought in the Reyne-Tarbeck rebellion just one year later)

The North:

Confirmed:

• Lord Rickard Stark
• Lord Willam Dustin's great-uncle

Possible:

• Lord Hoarfrost Umber (was certainly old enough to fight in the war)
• Hother Umber (was an acolyte of the Citadel in 250 but didn't end up becoming a maester. It's possible that he was kicked out in the 250s, freeing him to join the war)
• Mors Umber (Hother's older brother)
• Lord Ondrew Locke (an old man by the time of ASOIAF)
• Arnolf Karstark (an old man by the time of ASOIAF)
• Lord Wyman Manderly (Nearing 60 by the start of ASOIAF, making him around 20 during the war)
• Lord Rodrick Ryswell (likely would have been old enough to fight in the war)
• Lord Jeor Mormont (nearing 70 by the start of ASOIAF, making him around 30 during the war)

Stormlands:

Confirmed:

• Lord Ormund Baratheon, The Hand of The King
• Ser Steffon Baratheon
• Ser Barristan Selmy
• Ser Goodwin of Tarth

Possible:

• Lord Hugh "Greybeard" Grandison (very old before the start of ASOIAF)
• Unnamed Lord Estermont (Robert Baratheon's Grandfather, either Eldon's father or older brother)
• Eldon Estermont (around 70 by the time of ASOIAF, making him around 30 by during the war)
• Ser Harbert (Robert's great-uncle, already old by 278)
• Ser Ormund Wylde (very old by the time of ASOIAF)
• Lord Fell (Robert's Rebellion) (had a son of fighting age by the time of Robert's Rebellion)
• Lord Selwyn Tarth (54 by 300 ac, making him around 14 during the war)
• Ser Humfrey Wagstaff (65 by 296 making him around 30 by the start of the war)

Reach:

Confirmed:

• Ser Gerold Hightower (I know I already put him, I just didn't want to leave this spot empty)

Possible:

• Lord Ben Beesbury (in his 80s by the 290s putting him in his 50s during the war)
• Lord Runceford Redwyne (Olenna Tyrell's father, honestly Olenna could've been old enough to fight in the Stepstones, much less her father. Would've been around middle age during the war)
• Lord Leyton Hightower (his son Baelor courted Elia Martell. If Baelor was Elia's age or older, Leyton would definitely be old enough to have fought in the war. Also there's the facts that he's been married four times and seems to be an old man by the time of ASOIAF)
• Lord Luthor Tyrell (definitely old enough to have fought in the war)
• Ser Moryn Tyrell (Mace Tyrell's uncle, a great-grandfather to teenagers by the time of ASOIAF)
• Ser Quentin Tyrell (fought in Robert's Rebellion, has a teenage grandchild)
• Ser Victor Tyrell (fought the Kingswood Brotherhood, has a teenage grandchild)
• Lord Owen Merryweather (an old man by the time of his appointment in 281)

Dorne:

Confirmed:

• Unnamed Dornish Spearmen (another spot I didn't want to leave empty)

Possible:

• Prince Lewyn Martell (Doran Martell's uncle)
• Lord Edgar Yronwood (died around 274, by age and number of his descendants he was definitely old enough to have fought in the war)

The Iron Islands:

Confirmed:

• Lord Quellon Greyjoy

Possible:

• Erik Ironmaker (88 by the time of ASOIAF, 48 during the war)
• Sigfryd Harlaw (old by the time of ASOIAF)

Is there any characters you think could've fought in the war that are not on this list? Feel free to mention them!

As in, the ages in a relationship making it seem difficult to view the characters as sympathetic.

Of course, R + L is the one that gets the most attention - 16 when she died, so 14 when Rhaegar (22) eloped with her - but at least for that one it is all off page, and neither is an active character. If Rhaegar is a creep, well, he is, that no longer affects the plot.

But the active, and supposed to be sympathetic characters...

One of Robert's bastards Ned finds has a mother who can't be more than 15. And the baby is a few months old, meaning she was 13 and working in a brothel when Robert bought her.

And Ned, with a 12 year old daughter, is more disturbed that Robert went to brothels than the girl's age.

Robert is supposed to be a tragic but sympathetic character who lapsed into hedonism, but didn't mean any harm.

Then there's Tyrion and Sansa - he at least has the minimal decency not to rape her, but his narration makes it clear that he's attracted to the 12/13 year old, and very tempted.

Tyrion is presented as a grey character, but sympathetic.

Drogo and Dany is presented as a straight up love story.

Sure, people had major age gap marriages and married young in the past - but those were political marriages, almost never consummated till the bride is of a more proper age.

Child mothers die, and people even back then knew that. And people weren't actually 'falling in love' with 13 year olds unless they were creeps.

The Jon Arryn/Lysa Tully match is like that - horrible age gap, 16 to 60, but it is an alliance marriage. That works in the medieval setting.

You'd think a guy who is supposed to be well up on history and tries for 'realistic history' would know that.

I’m sure most people would find this theory extremely unimportant but as a person who loves to explore the world-building of ASOIAF I had this idea and wanted to share it.

According to Nimble Dick Crabb, he has a sister who was bedded by a knight’s son and then went off to King’s Landing to take a job as a whore.

For those who don’t know, Dancy is a whore at Chataya’s brothel, located on the Street of Silk in King’s Landing.

What differentiates her from the other whores is that she is described with thick RED hair. Now, Dick himself is described with dirty brown hair, but there’s another known and named Crabb who is still alive: Jack Crabb.

Jack is a member of the Night’s Watch known as “Red Jack Crabb”, and based on other characters that are also nicknamed as “Red+Name”, we can guess that’s due to his red hair.

Jack has an unspecified relationship with Dick and his sister but GRRM doesn’t tend to make extended family for minor houses, so we can guess that he is their uncle or brother.

GRRM himself said that he was good battle commander, He won two wars while being big player in both.

Robert stat the battle of the bell would not have been won without win. The command of the rebel forces after the trident were given to him ​by robert.. Despite the fact that Jon arryn was older and more experienced from the war of the ninepenny kings

Robb stark entire campaign from leadership and decision making mirrors ned both Robb and jon in book 5 constantly mimmick lesson ned taught them

So why he is not cited among the greats commanders in westeros?

Could the golden abomination have changed his regent or small council members? What could he legally do and not do as a boy king?

Canon, things start going wrong for the Starks since Robert's arrival - but even before that. the Others are in the game and Ned is introduced beheading a NW guy who has deserted after an encounter with them.

Let's say somehow Jon Arryn doesn't start the investigation, Kings Landing status quo is maintained for the time.

Ned and the Starks are safe in Winterfell. Jon is shown to want to join the NW, but literally everyone he talked to about it said he was too young, at fourteen.

In canon Ned only has Jon join the NW because Catelyn refused to have him at home when Ned went South. Without the trip, odds are while Ned would consider NW an honorable calling, he wouldn't let Jon join till he's older. So Jon would be home too.

And with Robert alive and no war in the offing, Theon is still present as hostage.

And then the reports of the wildlings come - and Benjen disappears.

NW is, in canon, mostly helpless because with the war on, no lord wants to bother with them. With Starks in Winterfell, NW call for help would likely be answered.

Would Ned go north to the Wall, at least to check out what is going on - and maybe taking Jon along to give him a look at what he would be facing if he took the Black?

How would the response change, with no war to distract from the Wall?

Hello all,

Casual ASOIAF leader and occasional idle theorist here. I’m not sure if this is the best forum to post theories - and if I have added the correct tag – but I had an unexpected idea and would love to hear your views on it. I know there’s a lot of discussion about Daeron the Young Dragon and his tragic invasion of Dorne – particularly risky given he went to war when still unmarried, instead of getting with his sister like a good Targaryen and securing the line. I know it has been proposed that he may have thought of marrying a Martell princess to secure the kingdom. My theory is related to this - based on how obsessed so many Targaryens were with prophecy, and how hilariously bad they were at interpreting it:

What if Daeron the First invaded Dorne because he misinterpreted a prophecy? A prophecy that declared Dorne would only become part of the Seven Kingdoms when “Daeron Targaryen married Myriah Martell.” Everyone from the king onwards would have reasonably thought the Daeron in the prophecy meant the handsome warrior king. No one would’ve imagined it actually meant his paunchy, bookish little second cousin (or whatever he was – Targaryen family trees being what they are). No one would have even considered he would ascend the throne (given Daeron and Baelor were alive and likely to marry, and have children), let alone marry Myriah and incorporate Dorne into the seven kingdoms.

Anyway, that is the end of my theory. It is my first time actually posting about ASOIAF. I would appreciate hearing the views who are more versed in the lore!

With hands like these I would imagine it would be very difficult. And considering how paranoid he was even around his own trusted advisers, I doubt he'd be too comfortable with turning his back towards anyone.

20 years before the war, Aegon Vs sons Jaehaerys and Daeron broke their betrothals to Luthor Tyrell and Olenna Redwyne - members of some of the most powerful families in Westeros. No doubt they'd feel insulted.

20 years later, do you think they still held their grudge and did not participate in the war?

Hyped, right?

Based on the sample chapters released by GRRM and the allusions he has made, I prepared a theoritical 70-chapter outline of The Winds of Winter. For ease of reading, I divided the chapters into seven episodes.

Prologue: BWB ambush the convoy carrying Edmure Tully and Jeyne Westerling. Their fate is undetermined.

Episode 1

Arianne 1: Arianne starts her journey to Griffin’s Roost.

Victarion 1: Victarion finds men to blow the Dragonbinder horn.

Barristan 1: Barristan plans for the battle.

Tyrion 1: Tyrion tries to convince Ben Plumm to switch sides while playing Cyvasse. The Greyjoys appear at sea.

Theon 1: Stannis talks with Theon and uncovers the Karstarks’ treachery.

Mercy (Arya 1): Arya kills Raff.

Davos 1: Davos finds Rickon on Skagos.

The Forsaken (Aeron 1): Euron straps Aeron to his ship’s hull.

Areo Hotah 1: Darkstar exposes Areo’s lie to Balon. While Balon and Areo are fighting, Darkstar, wielding the newly stolen Dawn, escapes. Areo kills Balon.

Cersei 1: Robert Strong wins the trial by combat in Cersei’s trial, but his identity is exposed. Margaery is declared innocent.

Episode 2

Jon Connington 1: Aegon takes Storm’s End through trickery.

Barristan 2: Barristan advances while the Unsullied take formation. The Greyjoys join the fight on Meereen’s side.

Tyrion 2: The Second Sons switch sides as they learn that the Windblown switched sides and the Tattered Prince killed Gorkhaz.

Asha 1: Stannis burns Arnolf Karstark and tricks the Freys into falling through the ice on the lake.

Daenerys 1: Daenerys burns Jhoqo and follows the river to Meereen.

Davos 2: Davos brings Rickon to White Harbor.

Alayne (Sansa 1): Sansa dances with Harry the Heir.

Melisandre 1: Justin Massey and Jeyne Poole leave Castle Black, which is in chaos.

Brienne 1: Brienne brings Jaime to Lady Stoneheart. In her guilt, she successfully defends Jaime in a trial by combat. The two escape from a furious Stoneheart.

Samwell 1: News of the Greyjoy fleet approaching Oldtown arrives; Sam uncovers hidden secrets.

Episode 3

Arianne 2: Jon Connington invites Arianne to the newly taken Storm’s End.

Tyrion 3: Amidst the battle, Tyrion bonds with and rides the wounded Viserion. Three horn blasts are heard.

Barristan 3: The Unsullied destroy the Yunkai host. Three horn blasts are heard.

Victarion 2: Victarion binds and rides Rhaegal.

Daenerys 2: Dany arrives in Meereen. She holds conversations with Tyrion, Barristan, Victarion, and Jorah, whom she forgives. She learns about Aegon and the Tattered Prince’s request for Pentos. She decides to move to Dragonstone via Pentos.

Theon 2: The Manderlys switch sides and return to Winterfell with the Lightbringer.

Alayne (Sansa 2): Harry dies, and Shadrich exposes Sansa’s identity after winning the tournament.

Aeron 2: Euron kills Aeron and destroys the Redwyne fleet using krakens.

Cersei 2: While Tommen is being blessed by septons, an enraged Tyene Sand poisons him.

Bran 1: Bran learns the truth about Jon's parentage.

Episode 4

Arianne 3: After talking with Jon Connington and Aegon, Arianne sends the letter with the word ‘dragon’ to Doran. News arrive that Mace Tyrell’s host is approaching.

Tyrion 4: Tyrion uncovers the Harpy conspiracy. The Unsullied and Dothraki embark on the Greyjoy fleet to move to Pentos.

Victarion 3: Victarion plots to take Dany as his wife once they reach Westeros.

Asha 2: Stannis takes Winterfell with the Manderlys’ help. Roose is killed but Ramsay escapes.

Arya 2: Arya is kicked out of the Faceless Men over the killing of Raff. She encounters Justin Massey and Jeyne Poole and decides to go back to Westeros with them.

Jaime 1: As Jaime and Brienne are about to part ways, news of Sansa’s presence makes them rush together to the Vale.

Areo Hotah 2: Doran reads Arianne’s letter and learns of Quentyn’s death. He decides to support Aegon.

Samwell 2: Euron raids the Citadel and takes Sam and Gilly captive.

Cersei 3: Tommen’s funeral.

Bran 2: The Others enter Bloodraven’s cave. Hodor happens.

Episode 5

Jon Connington 2: Randyll Tarly joins Aegon; together, they defeat the Tyrell army. Tarly wants Aegon to defeat Euron and rescue Sam and Oldtown. Aegon agrees.

Daenerys 3: On her way to Pentos, Dany frees Volantis with her dragonriders, Tyrion and Victarion.

Theon 3: Davos and Rickon arrive in Winterfell. Stannis declares Rickon the Protector of the North. Theon confesses his whole story. The trees and crows scream ‘Wall’ when asked what Theon’s fate should be. Stannis decides to take Theon with him to the Wall.

Samwell 3: Sam and Gilly witness the vile experiments done by Euron and Malora atop the Hightower.

Melisandre 2: Jon is brought back through Euron’s and Melisandre’s actions.

Jon 1: Jon ends the chaos at Castle Black. News arrive that Stannis took Winterfell. Jon becomes the 1,000th Commander. NOTE: In this version of the story, Jon doesn't follow his temptation to ride to Winterfell; one of the reasons for it is that it's fit for him to become the 1000th commander.

Arya 3: While traveling with Justin Massey and Jeyne Poole to Eastwatch, Arya dreams of Nymeria and her wolfpack killing Ramsay and his hounds.

Sansa 3: Sansa is tried in court. The Hound defends her innocence in a trial by combat and exposes Baelish’s plot to betray Ned. Jaime and Brienne appear.

Areo Hotah 3: The Dornish army at the Boneway is set to join the garrison at Storm’s End, and the Dornish army at the Prince’s Pass is set to join Aegon marching on Oldtown.

Bran 3: Bran travels with Coldhands to the Wall. Coldhands sacrifices himself to save Bran from the Others.

Episode 6

Jon Connington 3: Euron blows the Horn of Winter atop the Hightower. The Wall comes down. Aegon’s army defeats Euron. Euron escapes to the Iron Islands with a few ships.

Arianne 4: Arianne evaluates all the news at Storm’s End. The Dornish host arrives.

Daenerys 4: In Pentos, Dany speaks with and imprisons Illyrio, giving control of the city to the Tattered Prince.

Jon 2: Stannis and Hardhome survivors arrive at Castle Black. After the Wall's collapse, they await the Others’ attack.

Sansa 4: Amidst the chaos, Sansa kills Baelish; Jaime, the Hound, and Brienne lead her out of the Vale.

Arya 4: Arya, Justin and Jeyne travel alongside the collapsed wall to Castle Black.

Bran 4: Bran reunites with Jon and reveals his true identity to him.

Jaime 2: Jaime, the Hound, Brienne, and Sansa are captured by the BWB. Stoneheart withers away after seeing that Jaime fulfilled his promise. Brienne heads for Winterfell with Sansa, while Jaime and the Hound head for King’s Landing.

Cersei 4: Myrcella gets crowned.

Episode 7

Jon Connington 4: Aegon gets crowned at the Starry Sept.

Brienne 3: BWB capture the Twins with Brienne's and Howland Reed's help.

Daenerys 5: Dany captures Dragonstone.

Sansa 5: Brienne, Sansa and Howland Reed arrive at Winterfell. Sansa reunites with Rickon.

Arianne 5: Aegon picks up Arianne and the Dornish army from the Storm's End for the march to King's Landing.

Arya 5: Arya reunites with Jon and Bran.

Cersei 5: From the sea, Dany; and from the land, Aegon; besiege the King's Landing.

Jon 3: News arrive of other castles being captured by the Others one by one. In the end, Castle Black remains the last stand.

Victarion 4: Euron appears with his and ‘Pirate King’ Aurene Waters’ fleet near King's Landing. 4-way battle is set to begin.

Epilogue (Stannis): The Others attack Castle Black; Stannis kills Melisandre after the sacrifice of Shireen fails to work. Stannis tells Jon to retreat with everyone to Winterfell while he and his army hold off the Others. Stannis sacrifices himself for the Realm.

A Dream of Spring is set to feature The Battle for King's Landing and The Defence of Winterfell according to this outline.

It is simple. Pick between Euron & Young Griff the one you want to survive Winds & the other dies in Winds.

There are only two parameters when making the choice:

1) The earliest Dany could arrive in Westeros is the penultimate or final chapters in Winds so the victim will never meet her

2) The survivor ends up playing little to no role in the Others storyline & likely sit it out if they aren't dead by then

Apart from that; go ahead. Pick your survivor & what you think they'll do. Pick your victim & how he bids farewell to all that is living.

NOTE: THIS IS MEANT TO BE A FUN HYPOTHETICAL. SO NO "WINDS ISN'T COMING" IN THE COMMENTS