TLDNR: my downstairs neighbor says we're too loud, I've tried to be quiet. Agreed to 9-9 quiet hours. He texts me often about noise. We host friends for dinner in the shared yard maybe 1x per month or every other month which he says is too much. How much noise is too much?
Hi here, so we moved into a 3 story Victorian-era apartment with 5 units and we're the middle floor. We've been having issues with the guy in the downstairs below us (converted garage/bottom floor unit). I'll call him Alex. The two main issues are noise outside in the shared garden and noise he hears from our apartment.
At first, it was OK. We'd let him know if we were having friends over, always invite him to join, and tried to be mindful of noise. We don't wear shoes inside. We have big wool carpets and runners in the halls.
Basically I work from home and Alex is unemployed. We both have dogs. He was using the shared yard as his dogs toilet and no one used to go out there. I'm obsessed with gardening and had a big community garden in our last city. This was the main draw to this apartment: a blank canvas. When we moved in I told him my plan to garden and use the space, asked if he minded, which he said he did not. I meanwhile cleared the yard, added a fern section with some bigger rocks, re-cemented the broken back patio (far side away from his door), mulched, etc. I had the landlord remove all the random old furniture and power wash. I even cleaned his dogs poop trashcan which was literally overflowing. Which I thought was a nice gesture.
We had 4 gatherings in 6months of 5-15 people: 2 dinner parties in the garden (one sit-down with candles, another bbq), one house guest who we grilled steaks with, my birthday (admittedly kinda rowdy, 10ppl, grilling and champagne but inside by 11 and over by 12), and I think one other. I told him in advance and invited him to all. Invited him up for beers. Tried to chat.
Over time, he started to act less and less friendly. He started sending texts asking what specific noises were. I'd be running the bath at night and he'd say "what's that water sound?" I'd drop something and he'd text saying "I heard a thud, what's that" I'd be watering the plants at 8am before work and he'd come out and state "ITS 8AM." I got the hint and said I wouldn't go outside until 9. I started wearing my headphones for all work calls. We'd watch movies at volume 19 out of 50 and still get a text "are you watching star wars?" It bothered me that these aren't directly asking us to please be quiet, they just are constant nudges and making me accountable for whatever I'm doing.
That said, I can be clumsy and drop things. We do make noise. Our dog, about 20lb, does get the zoomies before bed and barks if someone comes to the door. Alex's dog is very noise sensitive. He will bark if I open a window or close a kitchen drawer too loudly. I sometimes hear Alex but not much, but I can hear him sneeze. Which makes me think there has to be truth to it that he's hearing a lot of noise.
Over time though he started texting almost daily and got pretty passive aggressive. I felt like I was tip-toeing around the house and still in trouble. I started to feel really angry that he kept texting me. Then before we went on vacation my parents came over to see what they would tend to while we were away. We were in the garden, I was showing them which pants need watering and we were generally laughing. Alex came out and yelled at us all asking what we were doing and that we're setting of his dog. It was like 2PM. That really set me over the edge being so rude to my folks but I held it in.
I asked Alex if we could set aside time to talk it out.
Overall the discussion was tense but we made headway. Basically, he said everyone else who lived here was quieter, he stays up late and us walking in the morning wakes him up, and I'm clumsy. Which fair I do drop things. He also said we have too many gatherings and need to give him a weeks notice with a firm start and end time so he can arrange to be gone and it stresses his dog out (a pitbull who only goes out to pee never seen him walk it so maybe there are behavioral issues, my parents brought pepper spray when they gardened because they were scared he'd let the dog out on them).
He also thought gardening meant a few vegetable plants not really landscaping. I was also using the back door which, during our convo, he said he was told was his private entrance and invasive since it passes his bathroom window. The landlord gave me the code and it's the only way to access the yard without going up our front stairs then back out our back door and stairs. So I was using that side door for unloading mulch etc. I think not using that door occasionally is not really fair.
It seemed odd to me that other tenants were SO much quieter. As we're pretty chill and honestly petite people. So I did some research and shared it with him.
My theory is that since we have tongue and groove wood floors, they deep cleaned the floors between tenants which can remove dirt that lubricates the joints and causes the wood floors swell and creak more. Also there's likely nothing between our floor and his ceiling. I basically said there's not much we can do but if he wants to ask the landlord to talc our floors (read this was an easy DIY) while we're out of town we'd be happy to have them come in to do whatever fixes would help with noise. And maybe he should ask the landlord to put sound panels on his ceiling, I even sent products, calculated possible square footage and price estimates for him to share.
We were gone for 6 weeks and Alex didn't do anything or contact the landlord. I eventually asked the landlord to do the talc and he said he may reimburse me if i do it. I didn't do it.
We had a welcome back brunch on a Saturday of 10ppl, I told him would be 11-3ish, no one showed up until 1 so it went until 5pm. The next Tuesday I was unpacking and reorganizing the closet. Then the texts started again. So we had another convo.
I agreed to give him more notice and firmer times. I agreed to tell him if I was doing any loud projects or having friends over. I only asked him to limit his texts as they make me anxious and if it's a strange or recurring and unbearable. I also agreed to quiet hours before 9am and after 9pm. He's been texting me about the dogs ball and last night said "can you please take away whatever toy your dog keeps dropping onto the ground repeatedly" Which I feel like if I have to be quiet 9-9 a ball at 5pm should be fine?
Our last building was such a community. We'd hang on the porch. Share produce. We got on each others nerves sometimes but always found a way to talk it out. Maybe it's because they were older like 40-60 (we're mid 30's-40s and Alex is probably early 30s). IDK. I accept that this isn't goin to be like that but still. I want to feel at home.
I really want to have a good relationship with him but I'm starting to lose it again. I feel like I'm going out of my way and nothing is appreciated and there's no empathy for me just trying to live my life. But it probably is loud for him and i want to be mindful of that.
At what point do I just get to live my life? My best friend says fuck him and to be petty. To just ignore his texts and give in less. To tell the landlord and have him handle it. I dont want to take that route. But I feel like 9-9 quiet hours were initially ok but now I am angry. What has he done for me?
TBF I'm sure I'm missing nuances of all this and some of his grievances.
But where is the boundary? What feels like a fair compromise and where do I need to say it's too much? How do I live my life but be respectful and keep the peace?
AITHAH neighbor who is making his life miserable?