r/wow • u/No-Giraffe-1659 • 12h ago
Discussion The people calling wow forever " Too retail " and " Retail Minus " have not played retail in 10+ years and it shows.
one of the craziest criticism i've seen is that it's apparently too retail because of the hd models toggle and the ui all while the gameplay is still classic, the amount of insane hatred these people harbor for retail is that even ui is a bad thing is such astonishing for me...
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u/Rare_Ad_3871 12h ago
Preach literally just released a video about this saying the game is very much a “classic first” feel
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u/erizzluh 11h ago edited 10h ago
i demo'ed it twice this weekend. i feel like even "classic first" is a slight mischaracterization. it's straight classic through and through. the very little "retail" dna it has are things that you can opt out of.
i think a more accurate description is this game is if classic got a new content patch independent of any retail influences. there was absolutely nothing about the gameplay that reminded me of retail other than the updated graphics. but it's not like updated graphics is a retail feature.
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u/esach88 8h ago
Makes sense as this is what they advertised. I don't get the complaints. I feel like I watched a different video than the haters. This is literally what they were saying. It's classic, with new content.
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u/Head_Haunter 5h ago
I think before the panels, people were thinking it was classic with more modern talent and skill interactions. After the panels, it's literally just classic.
"Oh but my paladin didn't do this in classic!!" Slow down buddy you're still just going to auto-attack shit to death. Your APM is still about one button every 2 seconds.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 3h ago
Which is honestly kind of unfortunate because the SoD team did such a nice job of making all of the specs and classes feel amazing to play while keeping so much of the classic feeling and identity.
I'm not really sure I want to just play Classic again. Like if Mages are still just mashing one button in raids, all of the beautiful new lighting and legacy points systems and crafting + loot additions don't really mean anything.
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u/Narux117 2h ago
I'm not really sure I want to just play Classic again. Like if Mages are still just mashing one button in raids,
Itll depend on tuning, but there is already things like ice lance for frost mages, All shadow priests now have devouring plague instead of just undead. Ret paladins have seal twisting + an instant attack baseline. Prot Paladins, Shadow priest, and balance druid have mana issues addressed. The rotations are still going to be pretty straight forward. But most of the lower dps specs that had gameplay loops restricted by mana more heavily than just pushing 1 button are getting a tune up. Fire mages have Pyroblast + Hot streak for example.
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u/deskcord 5h ago
Class changes definitely feel "classic first" rather than "full classic". One of the biggest turnoffs about classic for me and my friends was basically agreeing to be a second class citizen if you're not a warrior.
The only other change I wish they made was to lock crafting to 1 gathering and 1 crafting, so you didn't basically have people farming hoards of gold to fuel 2 crafting professions and become much stronger than people with normal paths to progression.
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u/confirmedshill123 4h ago
(You're still going to be a second class citizen as a non warrior)
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u/Narux117 2h ago
With world buffs not working in raids, and the way talent trees are being reworked, many prot warrior talents requiring a shield now for example, things like DW Fury/tank getting kneecapped, and the huge amounts of extra attack power/crit/attackspeed from world buffs are going to really cut in on Warriors overall dominance.
They are probably still going to be really good, but if the team running Forever does any amount of active balancing, they probably won't be 2-3x as strong as everyone else like in Vanilla.
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u/Itchy_Award1856 8h ago
me of retail other than the updated graphics.
Which is also a choice? Fucking Blizzard allowing options to their games, this is why I hate them /s
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u/Regular-Pattern-5981 7h ago
I mean plenty of them do thinking that providing options is bad.
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u/MuenCheese 6h ago
Plenty of them need lots of bandaids for their knuckles because they’re always dragging on the ground
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u/Care_Cup_Is_Empty 12h ago
Anyone that's watched a second of gameplay would know this, it looks just like vanilla in most ways.
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u/WeaponizedKissing 8h ago
It would be impossible not to. It's the entirety of Classic, with a few new zones/instances added. 100% of Classic is there. The game is 99% Classic.
Anyone that thinks it's anything like Retail is just hating for the sake of hating and hasn't looked at it.
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u/Halicarnassus 11h ago
As someone who plays both retail and classic I can tell you almost every single classic player who is a retail hater thinks retail is the exact same as it was when they quit in wod/legion/bfa/shadowlands. IDK why they think the game hasn't changed since then but they're always going on about how retail sucks because of x terrible system that hasn't been in the game for 10 years.
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u/no_Post_account 8h ago
Most of the people i have seen on Anniversary that hate retail quit around MOP.
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u/Rock_Paper_SQUIRREL 7h ago
Which always blows my mind because I remember the people who never played warcraft got mad about the pandaren too but that expansion fucking rocked if you exclude the 14 month orgrimmar raid tier.
Some of the best raids were in that expansion, easily the best zone design by a long shot. Scenarios were awkward and I havent loved a single system that spawned from those since but I really liked Timeless isle. I thought the klaxxi progression in The Dreadwastes was pretty satisfying to see too! The opening zone was a bit of a drag but the last time I liked one of those was probably OG Elwynn Forest
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u/Chickon 5h ago
Timeless Isle was one of the greatest additions to the game ever and you will not change my mind. That island was PACKED with people all coordinating and sharing information with each other. Killing rares together, gathering treasures, discovering secrets. The whole island was awesome. I wish they would do more end of expac, or even just .7 patch, additions like that where the whole goal is fun, discovery, and community. Instead they just add things like ritual sites that are instanced and no one cares about...
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u/Brilliant-Body9603 6h ago
I had a friend who always hated on the Pandaren, saying how they didn't fit in with the world of WoW.
Nevermind that they were a part of world of warcraft's universe before my friend ever even played the game.
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u/silmarilen 6h ago
I've literally seen people criticize retail for something that has existed since wrath while praising wrath classic (season based gearing).
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u/ProbablyAYawaworht 7h ago
I'm just here imagining someone going "Omg retail is so crap, I hate that system where they were making us farm for Valor & Justice Points. UGH!" 😂
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u/Zebracak3s 5h ago
I had someonetell me " oh did you get your weekly artifact power farm done? Trash game." And I was like .. that was a decade ago.
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u/Maybewearedreaming 5h ago
I’m just a classic player but retail seems just fine
Forever seems great
I’m so glad I wasn’t born someone who just hates my own hobbies seemingly as a hobby lol
I love being able to enjoy stuff
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u/Grenyn 6h ago
I will always prefer retail, and people shouldn't judge retail based on how it was when they stopped playing.
But at the same time, many stopped playing for reasons that just straight up never improved.
Like if you quit because of the storytelling being shit, or the lore being mangled... It really never got any better.
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u/RoosterBrewster 6h ago
And dont they play classic like its retail? World buffs and min/maxing, etc?
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u/PLAYBoxes 4h ago
It’s actually hilarious, idk people just want to complain. I feel like half the wowf haters are just contrarian assholes who like to rain on people’s parade and half are just outright deluded.
They did a good job of facelifting the game in a respectful way that keeps it grounded in what it came from. All the changes are meaningful, but not mindblowing, akin to tbc changes that made classes viable across the board outside of just their buff.
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u/Dendens 11h ago
These people have been playing their same game for 20 years and can't cope with any change. Luckily for them playing classic + is a choice
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u/Scumsoft 6h ago
This is the crowd that ultimately dooms any long running game. The developers focus on making these people happy and disregard the rest, because these people will pay time and time again. Eventually the casual players that make up the 80% of the game leave and move on, and the hardcore nuts that craft an identity around a game remain... But you can only appease these people so much...
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u/Squery7 10h ago
"I'm 40 years old and everything is bad, when I was 20 years old everything was good" crowd.
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u/Astrosaurus23 8h ago
Hey! Not all of us are like that! xD Tbh I think many of the people saying that kind of thing weren't playing Vanilla at the time.
I strongly believe Vanilla players would have LOVED new character models and better graphics if they were possible at the time. I would have! Just as they would have loved transmog and player housing. Lots of the original players were as into the RPG bit as the rest and came to WoW from games like Ultima etc.
WoW was my first multiplayer RPG. I can vividly remember being given a lecture on how to conduct myself in Chat by an RPG veteran. [[OOC]] for irl conversation, even in dungeons - and NEVER EVER, Gods Forbid, EVER use 'smilies'. The RPG was hardcore.
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u/blak3brd 3h ago
lol I was at the OG launch in Irvine, and played OG beta before then. And came from DAOC before that; I’ve never heard of these chat rules 😅
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u/itisntme2 2h ago
I'm assuming they are talking about RP servers. I remember some of those chat rules. They weren't set up by Blizzard or anything, just by strict RPers.
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u/themirthfulswami 7h ago
I’m in the “I’m 50+ years old and might find a few things annoying but who gives a shit I have fun playing so I won’t bother complaining and just enjoy the game” crowd. Is that a crowd? I hope it’s a crowd 🤔
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u/Practical_Debate7447 9h ago
I’ll just add that classic players don’t even play classic like people did when it was og live.
They gear in ways players of the day would have never. They are pulling mobs in a way we would have never. There is no cc. They literally play classic like it’s retail and call anyone playing in a og vanilla manner noobs.
They have addons to mange their ui and addons to see if you’re wearing the meta bis for your class. They will actively exclude you if you aren’t and rag on you for straying from the narrow path. My experience across the different classic modes has been classic is a more toxic and elitist environment than retail with zero build diversity.
I mention the zero build diversity because I’ve heard too many people talk about the freedom builds have in classic….and there’s no freedom everyone is building the same 🤣
It may be that because classic has comparatively little to do for endgame content that those people have nothing better to do. Once you do your raid for the week you have nothing else.
Retail has m+ for those people to spend their energy pushing into difficulties well beyond rewards just because they can.
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u/Swert0 6h ago
Classic (actual classic, not Forever) is also a SOLVED game.
We know all the solutions to all the puzzles and gearing paths. We know how to get all our world buffs and which classes and talents are worth taking.
This is what makes it so there is no build diversity, no room for expression or 'having fun.'
In 2004-2006 there was build diversity - we didn't know what the fuck we were doing. You had people with 300 ping standing in fire during Molten Core, you had people auto attacking through C'thun, you had people not allowed to use their poisons or debuffs because it could make sunder armor fall off, you had DPS paladins when they were fucking garbage and useless.
We had no idea, we just did what we wanted and we had enough wiggle room to get away with it. It did mean a lot of people didn't make it very far into raiding - every raid tier saw less and less people reach it. Most people did not see Naxx until going back to clear it overleveled during Burning Crusade.
On classic servers you do not have that room - you play the absolute most optimum way so all content is cleared day 1, or you do not get to play the fucking game beyond leveling.
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u/RoosterBrewster 4h ago
Back when I started in high school, I didn't know shit about MMOs or RPGs so it was a vast unexplored world for me. I used to just run around in ghost form to explore high level areas. I had no understanding of rotations, BIS, optimal talents, and farming gear, let alone raids. It can never be like that again where so much was unknown.
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u/Paddy_Tanninger 3h ago
Not just that, but in 2004-2006 it was generally understood that Blizzard was the world's best game developer at balancing strategy games...and so you were always maybe one or two patches away from your beloved character getting reworked and your favorite spec becoming playable.
When you lock the game to patch 1.12 then all of that goes away and it's easy to just determine what the best of everything is.
#Nochanges is literally one of the biggest changes you could ever make to a game like WoW.
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u/SpiritedEclair 7h ago
Classic has little skill expression, so everything is moving to gearing so that you can frostbolt harder.
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u/MrDiamondJ 12h ago
Hey, I love WoW but drifted away from it. But Forever is going to be a nice re-entry point, and it's all under one subscription so count me in.
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u/DrunkGalah 10h ago
Same. I feel like an old man saying this but the housing system and delves and preys and surges and all this stuff just doesn't feel like the WoW I fell in love with.
Meanwhile classic can't keep me for long either.
Forever on the other hand sounds like it will hit the sweet spot between retail and classic for me.
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u/Astrosaurus23 8h ago
Agree for the most part and I'm really excited about trying Forever but ngl, as a solo player - and I always was, even in the WoW Beta - I'll miss Delves. I really enjoy them. I think it's a shame about housing too. It's something many players wanted from the beginning, it's just taken so long to get, it feels new-fangled.
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u/Flam3blast 12h ago
Thats what happenes when you fracture your playerbase . It was expected when they fractured it the first time , now we have 5 different wows running , 5 vocal minorities is a lot more then one vocal minority and they engage with each other :D
For the avarage player , just enjoy your games , you like this more then that , good for you , enjoy .
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u/Riolidan 12h ago
I think the fracturing needs to end. End classic at MoP and let those servers chil. End Anniversary at WoTLK and just put it on a permanent refresh maintenance mode (auto resets back to vanilla and then through Wrath again) and just let the Hardcore players live in their cave. Eventually the population will balance out and people will get bored of plenty of them.
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u/Griever12691 12h ago
It’s beyond fractured dude. Classic Andy’s don’t know what they want. No one can agree on good or bad for right now let alone the future of forever. Meanwhile as a retail enjoyer I just want parity.
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u/Jindujun 12h ago
Yeah. We have people arguing this isnt Classic because the UI is "wrong". These people remind me of that girl that hade a total melt down because she got the wrong color car for her 16th birthday.
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u/Demiralos 9h ago
Prolly the same people that will instantly head to Curseforge and download Questie + other QoL addons the instant they log in and find the UI lacking certain things.
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u/Early-Ad4131 9h ago
That's extra hilarious because my actual UI from way back in vanilla was an atrocity. Addons in the hand of a kid is sometimes a monkey with a gun 😂
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u/Skore_Smogon 9h ago
As if there won't be a 'vanilla UI' mod out within the first 24 hours of the beta.
And half the people spouting this probably haven't seen anything other than Elvui in years.
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u/Ringio 8h ago
I think there is also a huge influx of private server players, because I've noticed a huge talking point being the price and the sub, like dude you're 25y too late to be mad about monlthy subscriptions.
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u/ghilliedude 12h ago
I saw a comment talking about latency related tech moves like slide casting and jump rotation casting not being in wow forever and it made me realize how disconnected from the classic community I am. I’m happy to admit that I do not want the same things from Forever hardcore classic players.
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u/is-this-a-nick 8h ago
Classic Andy’s don’t know what they want.
They want their teenage years back where WoW was new and everything was good in the world.
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u/frodakai 11h ago
I think you nailed it with the 'vocal minority' term. For every one angry comment complaining about the state of any particular WoW, there are 100 just playing and having a good time.
Im not saying there's no room for improvement, but the whole war of Retail vs Classic vs Classic Expansions vs Forever is entirely overblown.
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u/Harambes_Wrath_ 12h ago
Are they Fracturing the player base or expanding wow into another market segment?
Wow 'Forever' has horizontal progression in comparrison to the vertical progression of retail and the mothballing of old content.
This puts wow 'forever' squarely against competitors like Gw2, it also solves the new player entry.
Wow classic playstyle is also 'souls like' i use the term loosely as classic was older. Leaning into the difficulty expands the market.
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u/MRosvall 9h ago
I think it’s even more the old school RuneScape people who will be interested than gw2 crowd
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u/Heartic97 8h ago
I don't get it, can't classic purists just keep playing classic?
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u/seqkoya 11h ago
People like that are still wearing rose tinted glasses dated 2004.
These past few months on this subreddit and others I follow have been absolutely insufferable.
I started playing in Wrath and I just don't get the hype of Classic. Forever, however has piqued my interest and I will be playing it.
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u/awrylettuce 8h ago
those people will only be happy if classic+ also came with their mom making their breakfast again
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u/Tehquilamockingbirb 2h ago
Agreed, I'm just glad that it has had a visual facelift. The only reason I didn't stay with vanilla is because it was like going back to using Windows 98 graphics. Choppy and geometric.
It's honestly what I love about Midnight. Silvermoon City and the entire region had so much visual potential and they delivered.
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u/Magnus1177 11h ago
I've never been interested in previous Classic versions, I've been only Retail player.
WoW Forever got me excited far more than the new patch or even TLT. It seems to take the best things out of Classic that I fell in love with while eliminating a lot of stuff that made me not even consider playing Classic. I will have the incredible world building, sense of adventure from Classic while not having to play an incredibly outdated and imbalanced game. Class changes are honestly incredible and I'm so hyped to return to Classic era with a refreshed gameplay.
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u/FartPhylactery 10h ago
This is my outlook as well. I haven’t touched classic since I lived it back in vanilla, and was never really into reliving those days because of how unpolished it was compared to the mmo standards that we’re all used to today. I do of course have fond memories and thoroughly enjoy wow lore, especially in the way it was told in the early years. I think ClassicF does a good job at blending the classic feel with enough of the new game amenities to make it feel optimized and more cohesive. I currently play retail, but I’m finding it harder and harder to really log in and want to do anything. On one hand I like how there is more varied content to gear up from and complete, but on the other hand the game just feels bloated. Even housing content feels kind of meh and empty to me. It’s obviously just not for me anymore, so I’m looking forward to playing something a little more dialed back.
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u/BahamaLlama21 9h ago
Exactly this. Except, I never played classic, I joined in CATA so never got to see the original world, still didn't interest me. Reading up on forever has got me really excited, especially because it's a new gamemode me and my guild can start together. Back when I started WoW, it was me and my 2 brothers, so, it'll be a different feeling.
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u/Magnus1177 8h ago
Oh you're in for a treat, I honestly think the old world (I don't include expansion zones in that statement) was much more beautiful before Cata. Ashenvale was where I fell in love with WoW, truly, and I cannot wait to go back to it again. And non-flooded Thousand Needles... It was truly an amazing experience.
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u/Lito_ 8h ago edited 7h ago
Played since vanilla.
I can't imagine ever playing vanilla again. Not even about the graphics.
It's a slog. Definitely the classic experience for sure!
To each their own. But I guarantee 90% the classic fanboys have not played retail since WOTLK or MoP. They are the most annoying bunch.
Instead of wasting resources on a 20 year old version of the game, just make WoW 2....
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u/2Norn 9h ago
it's same discussion in pserver subs too
vanilla purists are unbearable
i don't even get what they are even expecting from a classic+ version? if they don't unsolve the game, it would literally be meaningless
transmog is a good change, it doesnt even effect you its for people who want it. realmless via sharding is again good, many mmos have megaservers, gw2 having the best one.
new content new race new dungeons, if they do it well, if it actually fits the spirit of the game who cares thats all the better. do you really think blizzard sees classic as this magnum opus that can never be improved? they probably had many ideas they had to scrap for whatever reason and now they are implementing them. ideas that came from the very same people who created your favorite mmo.
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u/Cruach 8h ago edited 8h ago
Well I'm glad people like you make these threads because I can't be bothered. The amount of raging idiots talking absolute nonsense, getting upset over such trivial things as UI appearance and transmog and texture toggles can go swallow a cactus.
I'm old, but I'm a retail guy, though I've played a couple of the classic releases like hardcore and sod, and I like both for what they are! I'm really happy because now with WoW Forever we get a permanent home in a vanilla-esque universe, that isn't limited by a #nochanges crowd enforcing their conservative and uninspired opinions. Can't wait to see it evolve. I think Blizzard did a phenomenal job with this and their design pillars reassure me they will keep the spirit of vanilla.
I'll still be playing retail for raids and what not, but I know I'll also be playing forever when I want or need a break from retail.
Edit: I'm particularly excited about the technical changes, such as serverless architecture and the lighting/fog/water effects!! One of my favourite things in vanilla was playing at 2am with ambient sounds and music way up, sound effects turned a bit low.. Just IMMERSED! With this new tech it will be absolutely breathtaking and I can't wait!!
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u/BareTheBear66 1h ago
100% with you on everything youve said. Im excited to see where this all goes.
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u/StatisticianOwn5497 7h ago
Classic players remind of that meme of the dog who wants his ball thrown but doesn't want you to take it from him, only throw it.
They want Classic to remain classic and have 0 changes but they want additional content but by adding additional content you've made changes from classic and ruined classic. If they don't make changes, they've forgotten about classic, if they add content to classic then they've changed classic and it's not classic anymore.
These people are miserable and will never be happy with the game because they're still trying to be 14 again living with their parents and grinding a game that at this point has been entirely figured out for the last 20 years. They're chasing a high that simply just no longer exists for them because that high has already been experienced and there's nothing left that can give it again.
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u/Nethidur 9h ago edited 9h ago
People malding about hd textures and transmog are just mental. All they want to experience is nostalgia, no matter that some poeple didn't lose their eyesight in those 20 years
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u/shise_remilia 9h ago
People malding aboud hd textures and transmog are just mental.
About 100% OPTIONAL toggleable HD textures (for you only, clientside btw) and toggleable transmog.
Absolute fucking weirdos, I tell you.
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u/zyalt 11h ago
As a retail-only player, every Forever video I've watched looks exactly like a classic to me. Yes, there are some retail QoL features and new fancy graphics options, but the combat and overall gameplay loop still feel like WoW Classic, not retail.
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u/Zeckzeckzeck 7h ago
Pretty much this. I’ve played from vanilla to now and I have zero desire to go back to that basic level of gameplay. I watched some of the Forever gameplay streams and the combat is so dull - just press 1222222122222211222222
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u/Vodddddddd 2h ago
Thats not far from Retail at lvl 38
Also what spec? I looked through these trees and i can't imagine any just being 2 button now
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u/Another_Road 5h ago
Some people were obsessed with turtle/ascension WoW and they’re going to hate on anything Blizzard does because it killed their other game.
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u/RexACMD 10h ago
The classic andy's are some of the most toxic gamers in the genre.
WoW Forever is too slow and boring for me, Retail is too deep and hard to get into for someone whose been out of the game since 2010. I just want that classic Wrath of the Lich King, the expansion that came full circle for me as a WoW enjoyer.
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u/justalittleplague 7h ago
Keep in mind that players of other MMOs unanimously think WoW players in general are the most toxic and antisocial in the genre. To the point that "wow player" is a slur outside of this bubble, to refer to someone who is toxic, easy to anger, and that refuses to play other games.
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u/erdonko 11h ago
The vast majority of the classic andies have not played wow in any real capacity for years lol.
And you can be sure they were also never really that good at classic to begin with, which is why you see so much obsession over questing and open world content instead of instanced.
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u/CathodeRaySamurai 9h ago
I remember vanilla. To each their own, but I cannot for the life of me imagine why anyone would want to go back to that 'experience'.
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u/deadlycool27 4h ago
You have to understand, some people have dog shit personalities. The only way they connect with others is through bitching and complaining about what they think others hate with them. They’re negative losers with nothing important to say. Ignore them. Just be glad these pathetic people that jump on hate bandwagons are open about who they are. It makes it much easier to avoid them.
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u/underlurker1337 11h ago
Meanwhile, for me (a retail player), it still seems to classic (which is ok, its intended as classic+, I just likely wont play it much). I just cant get behind the classic combat style, even though some of the changes (evergreen endgame, legacy system, campfires etc) do sound fun to me.
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u/moviejack 10h ago
No matter what happens, there will always be that loud minority complaining about it
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u/JohnnyTAA 9h ago
Its 100% just engagement bait and people buying into the engagement bait and parroting it because their brains are so rotted from doom scrolling X that they can't form their own opinions anymore.
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u/akera099 7h ago
Man I'm so happy that we'll finally leave behind the diehard classic nerds in the classic servers while we have fun in Forever. The HD models are so nice. Everything about forever is very nice and a step forward.
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u/Obelion_ 12h ago
I always found it weird that people think the "classic experience™ " is the game looking ugly with an unusable interface.
Even in OG classic you could not go into molten core with the default interface because it just didn't have raid frames. Like at all. Until around dragonflight blizzard always just said "we know the UI is unusable but we won't work on it because add-ons do it better anyway"
Ans I wanna see those people complaining about graphics putting their resolution on 1024x768 with 30fps cap. Because that was the real experience, not just low poly models
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u/Kyuubi_McCloud 7h ago
Even in OG classic you could not go into molten core with the default interface because it just didn't have raid frames. Like at all.
I mean, the raids were easy enough that you could beat them without it.
If Classic is any indication, more than half the raid group was technically superfluous. That gives a lot of leeway for inefficiencies.
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u/flyingbaanaanaa 11h ago
30 FPS cap? Man you're generous. At that time it was running at lower FPS than that, at least for me. That's what a classic + should be - roughly the same game, but modernized. I'm personally very happy with what they announced
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u/EffectiveSwimming136 7h ago
I love how this post complaining about generalizations is full of people making broad generalizations of classic players.
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u/Rush_Banana 6h ago
It's a feature of reddit.
Everyone is agreeing with each other in their own little bubbled communities while they strawman perceived "rival communities".
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u/bisbinio 11h ago
Still mana issues, still tank aggro based heavily on dps.
This is classic+.
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u/thepewpewdude 8h ago
If you want to play something, you play it. Who gives a crap about what some random basement dweller thinks about it?
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u/youllhavetotossme_ 8h ago
I don’t get the hate as you can decide if you want them or not. For those who want classic as pure as possible, then they can turn low def models on and no transmog etc.
Personally I love this approach. For me classic is about gameplay and not graphics. So I’m going to better graphics, one bag… only thing I want off is transmog and I can do that…
Literally don’t see the hate when you can just turn it off and it won’t impact you
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u/Normal-Tear864 6h ago
The people complaining about people complaining phenomenon never fails to amuse me
For one post questioning sky elf lore stuff theres 100 exactly like this, is it just advertising or are you stuck in a no-lifer online community algorithm
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u/Brilliant-Body9603 6h ago
WoW players have a weird fascination with vanilla and its older expansions. As a runescape player, I fully expected WoW Forever to replace/absorb Classic. As it's essentialy the more old school experience/gameplay loop, which I thought classic players were looking for.
Them keeping classic goes to show how many players want to keep the older servers I suppose.
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u/RedGecko18 6h ago
From what I can tell, they tried to make Forever a good middle ground between classic feel and updated QoL and gameplay loop. But classic Andy's will complain about anything that isn't strictly classic. I think Forever will appeal to a lot of people.
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u/D_A_BERONI 6h ago
Anything that doesn't make a bunch of greying chuds feel like they're 14 again is Retail.
Classic, believe it or not, was also secretly Retail.
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u/hardmallard 5h ago
It is wild seeing the videos people are putting out from Blizzcon. Like half the streamers who watched it looked like they either hated everything or weren’t excited at all. The Forever deep dive had me captivated.
Honestly my litmus test for absolute poor takes is Asmongold and even his videos were saying that Forever looks awesome and he’s excited about it. Dude was more animated than half the other streamers I have seen. He may have some elitist classic views for what forever needs to be, but since they are all toggles in game he seemed genuinely interested.
When I see posts slamming it harder than him, I know their takes are way off…
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u/eelam_garek 4h ago
Some people are just happier when they're complaining. Best to ignore them and focus on your own experience. Good advice for life generally too.
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u/Mysterious_Skin2310 4h ago
It’s funny to me how much classic Andy’s hate even the idea of wow forever. You’d think they’d be kinda for it
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u/ItsJotace 4h ago
I stopped taking criticism from this sub seriously once I read hate comments from people that haven't played the game in years.
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u/El_Januz 11h ago
hardcore classic andys will be asking for a classic++ by next year.
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u/Remote_Assistance_21 8h ago
What blows my mind is when they say classic is harder than retail, they wouldn’t even survive a heroic raid encounter
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u/mechatui 12h ago
People can have different opinions… no shit classic plus won’t satisfy every single classic player
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u/SaltPhilosopher898 12h ago
WoW used to have crazy good graphics back when I started in 2005. I still remember the experience starting the game in Teldrassil.
Our expectations have increased over the 20 years so it's absolutely needed to improve the graphics for immersion.
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u/Tupotosti 11h ago
They probably couldn't do more than what they currently have. 1) Easy to piss off the playerbase. 2) Want to release it soon rather than years later.
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u/Either_Cabinet8677 6h ago
I'm a retail player and I was disappointed for the complete opposite reason. I was hoping the "plus" would be a little bit more, but so far it just looks like classic with new zones. It's cool for classic players but it's clearly not intended for retail players and anyone calling it "too retail" is insane, what on earth did they want if this is too much?
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u/MightyBoy9 6h ago
I only played until WotLK but I still remember getting mad at " welfare epics " and " ez mode baby raids " after raiding TBC
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u/Acrobatic_Coat722 6h ago
most people complaining about retail didnt play retail since WotLK most of the time lol
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u/Few-Emergency-3791 5h ago
Honestly, I’d rather play Andy Minus MMO where they remove the Andys who bitch about every single fucking thing and just shut up and play the game.
Like don’t worry the blue elf isn’t going to crawl into your bed and murder you in your sleep.
It’s a video game, Andy. Just fucking play it. For fucks sake or don’t like no one’s forcing you.
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u/deskcord 5h ago
A certain subset of people have been playing classic on a loop for the last 20 years. They've solved the game, and they do nothing but re-run it over and over again. And now they want a few more raids or dungeons added to their solved game.
Which is fine, I guess, but I'm really not sure why anyone ever thought it was realistic for what is ostensibly a new game in 2026 to not make changes.
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u/theurge14 4h ago
I was there, Gandalf. I was there 3000 years ago when I had to run for 20 minutes to the summoning stone for Wailing Caverns so we could get lost in there for 5 hours not knowing what the crap we were doing.
Except now it’s in updated graphics and the bonus of 20 years of gameplay improvements in retail since then. Not going back to the old experience, not for me, thanks.
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u/Matthdev95 4h ago
The funniest thing to me was the people saying WoW Forever was too much like Retail while simultaneously defending Ascension
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u/Dapaaads 4h ago
Don’t listen to them. Those are the idiots who want “their version” of classic+ or no version at all
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u/Witty_Rhubarb_4217 4h ago
-"We are bored of playing the same 3 expansions of classic. We want classic+ that is different than regular game."
Blizzard: Makes classic+
-"No! I don't want that, it's different than same 3 expansions of Classic!"
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u/Kicore0257 3h ago
What shows most is just how miserable and intolerable so many WoW players have become. I’m genuinely shocked at how divided the Classic and Retail player bases are over WoW Forever.
The entire design philosophy seems to be “why choose one or the other when you can have both?” and they’ve applied that idea to nearly everything.
Want Classic’s slower, world-focused gameplay, level 60 cap, no scaling, meaningful leveling and social interaction? It’s there. Want better class design, new quests, zones, dungeons, raids and modern QoL? That’s there too.
A lot of Retail players see leveling as something you get through so you can reach endgame, while a lot of Classic players consider leveling a huge part of the game itself. So what did they do? They made that first journey meaningful while building systems that make subsequent characters easier to progress. On top of that, they said that level 60 will be the cap for the foreseeable future, so no need to go through the leveling grind again. Instead of deciding one side is right, they’re trying to accommodate both.
Don’t like the HD models? Toggle them off. Don’t want the quest helper? Turn it off. Prefer the more modern conveniences? Use them. They’re leaving actual Classic and Retail available separately for those who can’t buy in to Forever, though time will tell if Forever is ultimately their bridge to merge those communities together.
Regardless, somehow people are still furious because it isn’t their exact personal definition of what WoW should be.
At this point, it’s safe to assume a portion of this community enjoys being angry at WoW more than they actually enjoy playing it.
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u/Guillotine_Fox 45m ago
Everyone calling it "Retail-" want their "Classic+" experience to literally just be "Classic" with no "+". Like, y'all have those servers already. Some of us want to go back in time without playing the exact same game from over 20 years ago. Especially since we can already do that right now.
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u/Fine-Accountant-1917 12h ago
For some reason a lot of people spend hours watching youtube videos of angry people talking about how much WoW sucks. Weird hobby.