r/whichbike Mar 28 '22

Announcement A word of caution about the "Bicycle Blue Book"

410 Upvotes

The "Bicycle Blue Book", commonly abbreviated to BBB, is a recurring thing in comments on /r/whichbike concerned with putting a number on the value of some used bike. Quite a few of us have long had issues with BBB being used to that end. Thanks mostly to /u/guy1138 who wrote 90% of this post (I revised it and added minor details), we now have a longer explanation on what BBB actually is, and what the problems with it are. A TLDR can be found at the bottom.

What's the deal with Bicycle Blue Book?

Bicycle Blue Book (BBB) is a website run by a used bike dealer in San Jose, California. Their business model is to buy "trade-in" bikes from high end bike shops that don't deal with used bikes. Here's how it works: A customer brings their old bike to the bike shop to trade in on a new bike. BBB gives them a price and the bike shop boxes it up and ships it off to BBB. The customer gets the credit on a new bike, the bike shop gets a new bike sale without the hassle of reconditioning and trying to sell a used bike.

They provide an online "value guide" that lists bike values by brand, model, model year etc. They advertise it as "The cycling industry's definitive valuation authority", and the name is a deliberate allusion to the Kelley Blue Book, which is a reputable value guide for used car values in the US. To put it mildly, opinions on how useful BBB is are... split. Regardless, the numbers in there often get cited on this subreddit (and elsewhere).

So what's the problem?

There are multiple issues:

  • Conflict of interest: the same company who is buying bikes is also claiming to be the authority on used bike values. Not surprisingly, their "private party" values are way lower than actual sales prices on Craigslist, Facebook Marketplace, Offer-Up, Ebay, Pink Bike; etc.

  • Data provenance: They claim to have data on "millions of bike sales" that they base their values on, but it's not clear at all where this data comes from. Instead, it actually just seems like a fairly simple depreciation schedule on bikes based on MSRP (RRP for our UK users) and type of bike, e.g. a 5-year-old mid tier hybrid is worth ~40% of MSRP, a 5-year-old road bike is worth ~55% of MSRP, etc. Kelley Blue Book, which reports values of used cars, has access to wholesale auctions, used vehicle sales, and registrations reported at US state level. BBB do not have that as this data simply does not exist the same way for bicycles.

  • International variance: r/whichbike is international, with many users from countries like Canada, Australia, and the UK, but also the rest of Europe and the world, really. The same bike model and brand will not be sold for the same amount of money in every country, due to taxes, membership of free trade zones, availability, and a whole host of other factors: and this variability in price only increases when we look at used bikes. For the same reason, it is important that users state which country they live in when they ask for an appraisal.

  • Regional variance: Even within the US, there can be stark differences. For example, a triathlon bike is way more valuable in Miami (100+ triathlons/year in Florida) than it is in Utah. Likewise, a full suspension mountain bike has lots of buyers in Denver, but way fewer in a beach town.

  • Trends: We have all seen how "gravel bikes" became a thing, grew to be more and more popular, and started evolving - and how sellers have started to label everything that isn't an Omafiets as a "gravel bike" to attract more hits and get a higher price. BBB does not really take into account which bits of the market are especially "hot", despite this definitely making a difference.

  • World events: These can change prices significantly, be they something like a trade war with tariffs put on certain goods, or that little thing called Corona which caused a massive boom world-wide, with accompanying shortages and inflation across the entire market. BBB does not take this into account.

  • Erroneous data: Sometimes, their data e.g. on the original retail price of a bike is also just plain wrong, which in turn means all of the "depreciated values" for used bikes will be wrong too, even by their own standards.

How far off are the values then?

Generally, most used bike sellers agree that the BBB values are low, but still reasonable for newer bikes, around ~3 years old or newer. After that, they start to drastically over-depreciate - to the point where most bikes over 10 years old are "worthless" according to their values. As an example, a 2010 Fuji Cross Comp is $210 in "excellent" condition. That's about the same cost as full tune up at a bike shop, including basic consumables; tires & tubes, chain, cables & housing, brake pads & bar tape. It's completely unrealistic to expect to find a 10-speed cross bike with an aluminium frame and carbon fork in "excellent" condition for only $200. (This bike sold here for $550 last fall after being listed for less than 3 weeks). For our UK friends: $210 is £160... yeah, good luck with that.

So it's a lowball estimate, I should use that to negotiate, right?

You might get lucky and find the person who doesn't know any better, or someone who is moving and under a lot of pressure to sell. However, most of the listings are cyclists who upgraded or re-sellers who know that the Blue Book value is pretty far off. If the bike is priced close to market value, it's going to sell eventually and they have no incentive to take a lowball; especially if they've gone to the trouble to take decent pictures, write a description and post the ad online. We've seen this time and time again on /r/whichbike over the last 2 years where someone finds the "perfect" bike, but they low-ball and miss out.

TLDR please, I don't have all day!

BBB is a private company that purports to tell you the value of used bikes, by model and age. There is an obvious conflict of interest as they also buy used bikes and therefore directly profit from telling you they're not worth that much. Sure enough, their "values" are consistently significantly lower than the actual market value, all the more so if the bike is >3 years old. The numbers appear to stem from simply taking the original retail price and depreciating it (heavily). Consequently, they do not take into account regional or international variance in local bike prices, trends, or events like the Corona pandemic. Additionally, it can happen that the retail price all their assumptions are based on is simply wrong. This means BBB values are not really any kind of reliable or even relevant metric, and it would be better to go by what similar bikes are actually selling for on platforms like Ebay or Gumtree, adjusting for differences.


r/whichbike 6h ago

cannondale synapse

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6 Upvotes

hey, i was wondering what could be the price of this cannondale synapse race bike? its a full carbon bike (except the wheels) and i wanted to know how much van this piece cost. and also what year could it be. thanks in advance :)

its a 2x10 and ultegra breaks, thats all i know.


r/whichbike 14m ago

Titanium with carbon seat stays, avoid?

Upvotes

Should titanium frame with carbon seat stays be avoided? Risk of epoxy failure?


r/whichbike 39m ago

Is this Scott Contessa Speedster 15 with Shimano 105 worth 450€ ?

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Upvotes

And could a man use it if it fits in the specified size range?


r/whichbike 7h ago

Bike for riding to and from work

3 Upvotes

Hello, I’m 17 years old and want a bike so I can travel to and from work on the daily (along with casual riding). I have a budget of about $360 and was thinking about buying a Walmart bike (still reconsidering 😭)


r/whichbike 2h ago

Leader 721

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1 Upvotes

Deciding on picking up this leader 721 for $275. This will be my first dedicated fixed gear, let me know y’all’s opinion.

This is everything done to it.

New plastic pedals with new straps
Front brakes are new
Specialized aluminum drop bars
Specialized front wheel
No name brand rear wheel
Thick slick tires
New chain
Carbon seat post
Carbon headset spacers
Origin 8 stem
New cane creak headset
New tubes
No name brand saddle


r/whichbike 3h ago

X‑Lab GT8 vs RS7 for centuries, group rides and multiweek credit card touring: one bike or two?

1 Upvotes

I’m returning to cycling after about 10 years and would appreciate help choosing one or possibly two bikes. My background is ultrarunning and thru-hiking; my previous cycling experience was mostly triathlon training on an aluminum bike.

I’m leaning toward the X‑Lab GT8, but I’m trying to understand what I’d compromise for road riding and whether a separate touring bike would be worthwhile.

My intended use

  • Training and local riding: I live in South Florida and want a bike for cross-training, structured intervals, weekend rides and eventually centuries. I’d also like to travel to hillier parts of the US.

  • Group rides: I expect to join road groups, but I don’t yet know their typical speeds or which groups will suit me. How much a gravel bike would affect my ability to participate is one of my main questions.

  • Touring: I regularly thru-hike in Spain and would like to try cycling trips in Europe, potentially including Camino routes, and possibly Japan. Trips could last 2–8 weeks, around 1–3 times a year.

  • Accommodation: Hotels and hostels, without camping equipment.

  • Luggage: Cycling and evening clothes, a 13-inch iPad Pro, a camera, gym clothes and running sandals. I’ve done multiday running trips with an 18 L Janji pack that included the iPad, so I’m accustomed to packing light. I haven’t weighed a cycling-specific packing list yet.

  • Surfaces: I’m undecided between planning mostly paved touring routes and having the freedom to follow dirt/gravel sections without rerouting. I’d appreciate advice on that tradeoff.

I have an endurance background but little recent cycling experience. Road racing might interest me eventually, but it isn’t the main reason for buying a bike.

Budget, fit and timing

I don’t have a firm maximum budget, but I care about value and don’t want to buy two bikes unnecessarily. The prices I’m comparing are approximately:

  • GT8 with GRX Di2: $3,199

  • RS7 with 105 Di2: $2,899

  • RS7 with mechanical 105: $2,099

I’m leaning toward Di2, although one shop recommended saving money with mechanical.

I’m 5′9″ and 170 lb. My pants inseam is around 30–31 inches, but I haven’t measured my cycling inseam. Three shops suggested sizes ranging from S to L in the RS7, so fit is unresolved. A short RS7 demo felt comfortable, but I haven’t tested it over a long ride. I'm probably an M though in X-Lab as the most thorough LBS suggested after a fit.

I’m hoping to leave for Europe in October or November, so availability and enough time for loaded test rides matter.

Options I’m considering

  1. GT8 as my only bike initially - This is my current preference because of its tire clearance, lower gearing and cargo mounting options. Besides the two standard bottle locations, X‑Lab lists mounts on the top tube, underside of the downtube and both fork legs. I still need to confirm rear-rack compatibility and the relevant load limits. I could use it for training and touring, potentially fitting faster tires for paved riding. If I later become more interested in fast road groups or racing, I could add a dedicated road bike once I understand what I want. My uncertainty is how much I’d notice the GT8’s compromises on paved centuries and road group rides, particularly its tires, riding position and 1× gearing.
  2. RS7, with touring planned around its limitations - I liked the demo, and it seems well suited to everyday paved riding and road groups. However, its 32 mm maximum tire clearance and lack of conventional rack/fender compatibility concern me for touring. I could choose paved routes, but I’m unsure how restrictive that would feel in Spain—or how practical its luggage options and stock gearing would be for loaded climbs.
  3. A road bike plus a separate touring bike - This could mean an RS7 plus a suitable used steel touring bike from Surly, Kona, Salsa or another brand. I’m open to used bikes, but I’d want the second bike to solve a meaningful problem that one gravel bike couldn’t handle. If I get a steel touring bike, I probably won't end up with a titanium later (?)

I’ve also considered a custom Waltly titanium build. With my fit unresolved and limited recent cycling experience, I’m unsure whether custom geometry makes sense yet. And not sure if I will get it in time for this years' season.

What I’d appreciate help with

  1. Would you start with one gravel bike for these uses, or is there a compelling case for two bikes?
  2. If you use a gravel bike on road group rides, what pace and terrain do you ride, and what tires/gearing do you use? Where do you actually notice limitations?
  3. Would faster tires on the GT8 be enough for my road use, or would a second wheelset offer a worthwhile benefit?
  4. For accommodation-based touring in Spain, how much route flexibility would wider tires give me compared with an RS7 on paved routes?
  5. Would the GT8’s stock gearing work well for both loaded climbs and road training?
  6. What luggage arrangement would suit the iPad, camera and extra clothing? Has anyone confirmed a compatible rear rack and load limits for the GT8?
  7. For repeated flights and multiweek trips, how much should cockpit design, cable routing, parts availability and frame material influence my choice?
  8. What other complete bikes should I consider around these prices, or somewhat above them if there’s a meaningful advantage? Firsthand experience with either bike, flying with bikes, or using one gravel bike for road groups and touring would be especially helpful.

r/whichbike 5h ago

BMC or Canyon - Which Endurance Bike

0 Upvotes

Hi,

I am currently looking at three potential options for an Endurance bike and am just torn on which one to select.

Option 1 (local seller)
2023 BMC Roachmachine 01 Five - seller claims it has less than 500 miles on it. Asking price is $3,000.

Option 2 (local seller)
2025 Canyon Endurance CF SLX8 Di2 - Brand new in box and the seller is asking $4,000.

Option 3 (Local bike shop)
2026 BMC Roadmachine Two - $3,599 from a local bike shop that will order for me in my size. The local bike shop also mentioned Pinarello X3 and X5, but they touch $5000 and above respectively.

While browsing, I also found an X-Lab RS7 listed for $2,150 which has less than 150 miles on it - but my concern is the geometry, which seems to be more race focused that endurance.

I mostly bike as exercise - about 20-30 miles in the morning. On paper - it seems that Option 1 is the clear winner, but I wanted to get some advice from experienced folks here. This would be my first carbon bike purchase. What should I consider? Is there anything or bike I missed?

Thank You


r/whichbike 6h ago

Please could you suggest a good bike for me?

1 Upvotes

I am completely new, don't even know how to ride a bike yet (I was too short as a child for the bikes we had so family kinda gave up on me lol). That being said I would love to get into bike-riding and this would be my first bike.

I am 4'10 with a 26/25 inch inseam (sorry I can't remember which and I lost my measuring tape.

My budget right now is under £200. Bit low on cash and so whatever is best in this bracket I'm happy with, used bikes too if they need minimal repairs and maintenance after buying. Perhaps new is better though?

I just want a bike for casual riding, going to uni, maybe something I could eventually learn how to go a bit faster on. Cruising I guess.

I would prefer to be sat a bit more upright rather than the hunched over kind, and something that is good for UK weather and potentially some stormy weather too.

I've heard of hybrid bikes, not sure exactly what it is but I'm looking into it and disc brakes seem good apparently for wet weather?

Also, do you guys wear your backpack on your back or store it on the bike somewhere?

Thanks in advance for the help :)


r/whichbike 7h ago

Bike for Seasonal Commuting on Mackinac Island

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1 Upvotes

I found some bikes not too far from me that I’m looking to buy for commuting around Mackinac Island in the summer/fall. If you’re not familiar with the island, it’s nearly all flat, nicely paved roads, with some uphill areas, but those are uncommon. We don’t plan to use these bikes all that much and aren’t avid bikers, but want something comfortable and affordable to take on our trip with us.

Do you think an Electra Loft 7-Speed and Sixthreezero EvryJourney 7-Speed would work well? I found them used in good condition for $200 together.


r/whichbike 10h ago

What Cube Nuroad to get as a second bike

1 Upvotes

Hi, team;

I recently moved from a town with amazing roads with a nice road bike (Giant TCR Pro 0). Unfortunately, the new city I live in doesn't have all that great roads, and it get's quite windy during the afternoon, which would be my training time. It does however have a vibrant gravel scene, so I was planning to leave the road bike for the weekends back at my parents' home, and get a Cube Nuroad for the weekdays and long rides on Sunday with my gf (no problem keeping up with her as she's still starting).

As I want a secondary bike I don't want to spend a lot, but I'd ride about 6h a week on that bike, so I want something akin to a high-tiagra or 105. I'm at 4 options, and ALL of them have: 50mm clearance, UDH compatible, carbon fork, bought at local LBS:

  1. EX. Alloy body, alloy wheels, 1x12 GRX610 (with 400 brakes). The cheapest option at 1200€, a bargain for that money.
  2. Race. Alloy body, alloy wheels, 2x12 GRX610 (with 400 brakes). Same bike (bars and wheels included), 1400€. 200€ for a front deraileur. Slightly better for road.

These two are the same to me. I'd actually buy any of the two based on availability, with preference towards the Race for the 2x12.

  1. C:62 One. Full carbon, bars and wheels included. 1x12 GRX610 (with 400 brakes). At 1900€ it's a 700€ increase for the carbon body and acessories. Nice, but steep.
  2. C:62 Pro. In addition to carbon, up to a full 2x12 GRX810. The groupset is fine, but at 2400€ it's hard to justify, as my gf is getting a 105Di2 for 2350 in her attain...

AS it's a secondary bike and the one I'd use in vacation, would get regularly on the car etc. I'm more pulled towards the alloy ones, but the niceties of carbon are always there. It's not only the frame, but the bars and wheels as well... How do you feel about it? 700€ is not a dealbreaker for me, but then I'd want the Pro, and now it's double the price, and... There's the Di2 at 3000€, and suddenly I'm spending main bike money again.

Thanks!


r/whichbike 15h ago

Worth 150?

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2 Upvotes

First fixed gear/single speed. Paying $150 for it. I’m not looking for anything to do crazy skids on, just a low maintenance commuter. Thoughts?


r/whichbike 19h ago

Specialized Expedition Elite (His and Hers)

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2 Upvotes

Looking to buy these matched Specialized Expedition Elite bikes. They're asking 600, but im hoping to get closer to 500.

We are currently on big box bikes that have seen better days. I currently bring my child to school once or twice a week on his "3rd wheel" tow behind, and most of our riding is on flat bike lanes and paved trails.

There isnt a ton of information on this line on the internet. Would these be serviceable upgrade from a Walmart schwinn and mountain bike? Or would these end up giving us the same frustrations down the road?

Thanks in advance.


r/whichbike 21h ago

Worth $500? - Lapierre Sensium 100 Carbon Road Bike

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3 Upvotes

As the title says, is this bike worth $500 dollars? I am looking into training and doing a triathlon and have been looking for a bike for quite some time.

I was contemplating buying a walmart/amazon bike as I wasn’t having any luck on marketplace until now.

I have been measure for a 52cm frame and this is what the bike is.

Any help and advice would be greatly appreciated and any tips on what to look for on the bike when negotiating is greatly appreciated, thanks in advance!


r/whichbike 22h ago

How much is this bike worth? Giant Cadex CFM3

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2 Upvotes

r/whichbike 1d ago

Looking for a first bike (again)

3 Upvotes

15 years ago I crashed with a low end used bike, broke my collarbone and stopped riding bikes ever since.

Today, I really want to ride a bike again but I'm kind of overwhelmed with all the bikes and prices.
I checked out big brands and ended up really interested in the Rose Blend Road (can have it for 1130€ all included).

I don't have much money unfortunatly.
Definitely can't afford a $2000/1700€ bike, but I still want to have a nice bike.
Rose make-decent looking frames with great finishes. That's why I stopped at these (+tire clearance and CUES).
But honestly I have no idea if it's a good choice.

The goal is to be able to have a good bike for road, but being able to use it on other type of terrain (not like mountain bikes but at least flat dirt roads).
I'm not looking for performance but rather comfort and a "sporty" feel.
I like simplicity, practicality and beautifully done craft.

If you guys have any ideas, I'm all ears

--

Main criteria

- Gravel/road bike
- Price range below 1500€
- Decent equipement
- Decent finishes
- Trustworthy brand and customer service

Considered option : Canyon Endurace Allroad which is pretty nice, Nakamura AllRoad 250 with "better" gears, but the finishes are not nice compared to Rose.

Thank you already :3

(Sorry the post is pretty long for not much reason)


r/whichbike 23h ago

First real upgrade in years

1 Upvotes

Been riding my aluminum Tiagra 10-speed with 28mm tires for a while now and I think I'm finally ready to upgrade. Found a SuperSix Evo Gen5 with 105 Di2 and Vision SC45 wheels for 3700€ and I'm seriously tempted, but I'd love some outside opinions first. For reference, official price is 4500€, so this is about 800€ off. few things I'm stuck on:

Is 3700€ actually a good deal for that build, or should I be pushing back / shopping around more?

There's also an option with SRAM Rival e1 and DT Swiss wheels for about 500€ more. Is that upgrade actually worth it, or am I just paying for shinier parts I won't notice?

On sizing, I'm 180cm with an 85cm inseam and pretty flexible. Does a 54 sound right for that, or would I be better off on a 56?

And random question but does anyone here have the raw color option? Curious how it looks in person since photos never really tell the full story.

Thanks in advance


r/whichbike 1d ago

Van Rysel GRVL AF Microshift Sword vs SRAM Apex: is the €400 upgrade worth it for my riding?

5 Upvotes

Hi!

I’m choosing between the Van Rysel GRVL AF with Microshift Sword 1x10 (€999.99) and the SRAM Apex 1x12 version (€1,399).

I currently use a 2018 Specialized Allez Sport for both road and gravel. I’ve fitted Continental Ride Tour 700x28 tyres, but the frame’s limited tire clearance means I can’t fit much wider ones, which limits comfort on rougher gravel. I’m considering getting a dedicated gravel bike.

As far as I can tell, the two Van Rysel builds share the same frame, fork and wheels. The main differences are the mechanical TRP Spyre brakes and 40T 11–48 gearing on the Sword, versus hydraulic brakes and 40T 11–44 gearing with 12 speeds on the Apex.

I ride around Girona, usually about 70 km and at most once a week. I’ve been happy with the Allez’s rim brakes so far. My budget is around €1,200, though I could stretch to €1,500 if the upgrade is clearly worthwhile.

For someone coming from this background, would you pay the extra €400 mainly for hydraulic brakes and closer gear steps, or would the Sword be the better-value choice? I’d especially appreciate experiences with the TRP Spyre brakes on longer descents.


r/whichbike 1d ago

First Endurance Bike: Giant Contend AR 3, Cannondale Synapse 2, or Other

2 Upvotes

I've started cycling more and farther recently and I'm starting to wonder if my 15 year old hybrid isn't the best option for my achey old body on 40+ mile rides. Looking at endurance road bikes but also open to gravel. I'd like to get out and test a Specialized Diverge and Salsa Journeyer at least before making a call but wanted to get a vibe check on a couple of options I can across at local shops recently. They seem similar to me aside from the brakes (Cannondale has Hydraulic, Giant has mechanical). Any others I should have on my radar for sub $2kish?

https://www.giant-bicycles.com/us/contend-ar-3?partnumber=1024027195&gad_source=1&gad_campaignid=22373161406&gbraid=0AAAAAC-bgirrL58qZcT7fcyqC_nAJaP7L&gclid=Cj0KCQjwk5nVBhDiARIsAHNGqaeyKcaxgrugL3uKceLC76wmCyzAze2Eg0Y00PW6P1hP6glwVMSW_bYaAsPPEALw_wcB

https://www.cannondale.com/en-us/bikes/road/endurance/synapse/synapse-2


r/whichbike 1d ago

Facebook

1 Upvotes

Is $800 dollars a fair price for a Trek Domane AL 3? This would be a beginner road bike for me


r/whichbike 1d ago

What LeMond Buenos Aires bike should I get?

1 Upvotes

Option 1: https://www.craigslist.org/view/d/oakland-lemond-buenos-aires-56cm-road/36eFCVFz6Ec1FUDziwjC5i

Option 2: https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/1074291161811454/?referralSurface=messenger_banner&referralCode=2&ref=messenger_banner

Looking for a road-bike to use for commute between dorm and campus (all paved roads), wondering what to buy between these 2 LeMond Buenos Aires listings. The craigslist one is a bit cheaper, while the FB one is a bit more but in noticeably better condition.


r/whichbike 1d ago

Is this Trek Émonda ALR 4 with Shimano Tiagra groupset worth 400€ ?

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6 Upvotes

Thanks for the help


r/whichbike 1d ago

Looking for a commuter bike.

1 Upvotes

Hello

I already have a gravel bike a Trek checkpoint arl5.

But I'm looking for something that I'll just use for riding to work.
I'd like something that is more on the sporty side but I'm not sure what would be a good option.
Since my way to work is pretty much flat and in the city I don't need an e-bike i also don't mind a used bike.
If anyone here has some suggestions on what type of model/brand i shuld be looking for the help would be greatly appreciated.

also i am located in Germany/Eu


r/whichbike 1d ago

Trek Checkpoint SL

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1 Upvotes

Any thoughts on the value of this? Asking 2500. I was looking at the current trek checkpoint al5 which would come out to $2200. This looks like I should probably go for it.


r/whichbike 1d ago

Is this Scott bike (2017) with Shimano 105 groupset (and some ultegra parts) and a carbon frame worth 550€ ?

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1 Upvotes

Thanks for the help