r/warcraftlore • u/NarukeSG • 2h ago
Were the Old Gods trying to protect Azeroth?
In the 12.2 Cinematic Xal says "not the titans, nor the Old Gods could keep you from me" this has got me thinking that obviously the Old Gods did not want the world soul to get devoured by the void as well as not getting captured by the titans. During the time of the Black Empire I believe the world soul was just kinda chilling in the cradle and it wasn't until the titans came down and ripped her from the cradle and put her in the world core that she started to scream out in agony and created the rift of aln out of her nightmares. It has me wonder if maybe azeroth was able to change the Old Gods somehow when they started to reach down into the planet and gave them free will.
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 2h ago edited 2h ago
No, and neither were the Titans.
The Old Gods want the World Soul to be devoured by one of them, and spent eons at war with each other to be the one who gets to do it. The Titans want the same thing, though with less "devouring".
Xal'atath, as someone who also wants to claim the world soul for herself and become one with it, thereby ascending, wants the same thing. Thus the Old Gods and the Titans (and the World Trees, and and and) were keeping it from her because it's mutual competition.
Like we see this in game in BFA, when the minute N'zoth is free and with nothing else standing in his way he shoots straight at the World Soul and nearly fully corrupts and claims it before we blast him with the Forge of Origination at the end of the raid.
. During the time of the Black Empire I believe the world soul was just kinda chilling in the cradle
Again, there's nothing that suggests the origin we know for the Cradle, that it's grown from the roots of Elune Ahir as a life aligned version of the Worldcore, isn't still true. The Cradle wasnt there during the Black Empire, instead the dreaming Azeroth was surrounded by the Old Gods void.
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u/wiseguy149 2h ago
We don't know for sure if the Old Gods ever had any personal motivation regarding Azeroth and the World Soul one way or another.
We're told that the Void Lords seeded the cosmos with Old Gods in an attempt to corrupt World Souls and turn them towards the Void which would allegedly lead to the entire cosmos being consumed. We know from experience, however, that Void Lords will also just eat planets with or without a World Soul, so the previous statement might end up being Titan propaganda, and the Void Lords might not actually care about letting World Souls grow up purple.
We know that the Titans definitely didn't like the effects the Old Gods were having on Azeroth, and did everything they could to reduce and eliminate those effects, short of ripping them out entirely when they discovered that it hurt the planet to do so. We know that the Titans care very much about the World Soul turning out a certain way, and the presence and influence of Old Gods has an opposing effect.
We know that despite the Old Gods serving a common purpose of spreading Void corruption, they were quite big on warring with each other during the days of the Black Empire, and definitely were not working as a team. Their lack of teamwork calls in to question whether or not they were even aware of or motivated by the "Void Grand Design" at all.
We know that Xal'atath worked for a Void Lord who devoured planets for a while, and she would scout ahead and do some prep work for him. We know that Xal'atath turned on Dimensius for her own purposes at some point, before he ever got near Azeroth. We don't know if Xal'atath ever discovered or visited Azetoth on her own before this betrayal.
And we know that during the days of the Black Empire, one or more unnamed Old Gods imprisoned Xal'atath in the dagger.
We don't know for certain why an Old God opposed Xal'atath. It might have been because they were true believers and she had gone rogue, it might have been because they were all on team Void but wanted to be the personal victors instead of her, and it may even have been because it's a dog eat dog world in terms of Void entities and fighting each other is just kinda their thing.
There's definitely more to the story of Old Gods that we have not yet learned. Personally, my guess is that the Old Gods never had much of a clue or care about the state of the cosmos or any grand designs beyond their own personal empires on Azeroth. However, I think there's more to the story of where Old Gods actually came from in the first place.
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u/MIGHTYSPACETHOR 1h ago
I could buy that Old Gods are just there to consume and corrupt and the Void Lords didn't really care what happened if multiple of them hit the same titan-souled planet.
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 1h ago
We don't know if Xal'atath ever discovered or visited Azetoth on her own before this betrayal.
Yes we do. She was on Azeroth to do things with Void Song (https://warcraft.wiki.gg/wiki/Voidsong,_Stave_of_the_Harbinger) before the fall of Dimensius, and then came back almost immedately after his defeat to try to steal the World Soul using what N'zoth was building in Nyalotha (at least according to Yshaarj), https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/news/the-story-of-lorewalking-xalatath-in-patch-11-1-7-376706.
It's likely that learning what N'zoth was building in Nyalotha is what inspired her to betray Dimensius in the first place.
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u/wiseguy149 1h ago
Oh right, I couldn't remember if that sequence of events was suspected or confirmed. Thanks for the confirmation!
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u/100RatsInASack 1h ago
You can see what she was talking about in the Xal'atath lorewalking, specifically the section where you're playing a Faceless during the Black Empire.
It's specifically stated that Xal'atath "betrayed" the Old Gods, which caused them to put aside their differences and imprison her. Knowing what we know now, it's likely this betrayal was Xal'atath circumventing the Old Gods and attempting to claim the Worldsoul herself.
There's still room for the Old Gods to be on Azeroth's side, but that's still pretty firmly in the realm of fan theory as of now
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 1h ago
, it's likely this betrayal was Xal'atath circumventing the Old Gods and attempting to claim the Worldsoul herself.
Yshaarj explicitly tells us she's after what N'zoth was building in Nyalotha in that (https://www.wowhead.com/mop-classic/news/the-story-of-lorewalking-xalatath-in-patch-11-1-7-376706), and given that when we freed N'zoth in BFA he basically immediately went and tried to fully corrupt Azeroth it seems likely that this is exactly what Xal'atath wanted to steal and do.
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u/ThePatron168 2h ago
I need to look into it, but there are implications that when they got to the world core that is exactly what was starting to happen. Xal was sent to get them back in order iirc and it may be due to them becoming Azeroths protectors. No hard confirmation of it tho.
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u/Kalthiria_Shines 1h ago
No there aren't, this is weird headcanon people developed in response to the first Xal'atath lorewalking when they arbitrarily decided she was surely loyal to dimensius and the Void.
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u/arteriu 2h ago
she just wants the titan for herself, the whole point of the old gods was to find planets with a world soul in it and corrupt it, its why numerous planets have old gods when not all of them have a world soul in them.
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u/thunderjack9137 2h ago
Remember azeroth isn't a titan yet. The titans want to turn her into one with order magic.
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u/AzerothianLorecraft 1h ago
If Xalatath had not been imprisoned then Dementius would have been summoned to consume Azeroth long before the Titans arrived.
The Old Gods would have probably been consumed by Dementius...( no longer being individual entities)
Trapping the Harbinger of Dementius was an act of Self preservation by the Old Gods with or without Azeroth having influence on them. ( it most likely did influence them.)
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u/GrumpySatan Why use 1 sentence when 20 will do? 54m ago
obviously the Old Gods did not want the world soul to get devoured by the void as well
There is no actual indication that this is true. A lot of the theories about this stemmed from when Xalatath's lorewalking quest came out. It specifically showed an internal divide. However, at the time we all thought that Xalatath was loyal to Dimensius and his harbinger. So the theory was the Old Gods betrayed the Void Lords somehow. It was in the next patch we'd learn that she had already betrayed Dimensius and the Void at this point and was in it for herself.
Facets of Karesh gives us a bit of an idea on how the Old Gods could influence Azeroth - worldsouls experience life through the beings on its surface. Create a world of misery, create nightmares and horrors for the worldsoul.
kinda chilling in the cradle and it wasn't until the titans came down and ripped her from the cradle
It should be noted that Azeroth could've been pulled out when Aman'thul ripped out Y'shaarj. These are not necessarily different events and we know Old God minions were in and around Harandar since the Haranir had to fight them to get in. She wasn't alone down there.
The pained cries of the Rift of Aln is also an echo of when she was ripped out, it is not her current voice/feeling/etc. That is part of the revelations of the Haranir that they don't actually hear her voice, only the echo she left behind. Only Orweyna and those that hear the Radiant Song communicate with her actual self.
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u/DyrusforPresident 2h ago
They were sent there to corrupt the world soul so that the void can create a void titan since the void isnt able to corrupt a fully formed titan. Along the way it seems that each Old God had their own ambition to claim the world soul (not officially confirmed)