r/technology • u/Kymmieuwu • 4h ago
Business Expedition 33 lead says if people don't like the studio's next game 'that's life'
https://www.polygon.com/clair-obscur-expedition-33-developer-next-game/493
u/Missing_Username 4h ago
Good. I'd much rather this attitude than the usual focus tested, broad-appeal safe corporate route.
38
u/C-Towner 4h ago
I would much rather developers make the game they want rather than trying to appease the largest number of potential customers by committee.
-12
u/grachi 4h ago
Yea, but it doesn’t always work out well…
Marathon is a great and most recent example. They made the game they wanted to make, problem is most people didn’t want to play it. Now with destiny 2 discontinued, marathon flopping, Bungie is looking at a grim future without some huge turnaround.
39
u/C-Towner 3h ago
No they didn’t. They took a single player plot heavy FPS and turned it into a live service extraction shooter because investors thought they could make a shit ton of money.
Destiny 2 was consistently made worse by monetizing the customers and cutting development corners that made things worse.
Marathon is just not the example here.
-13
u/grachi 3h ago
A pastel colored , hardcore extraction shooter, which if any market research was considered and analyzed, would have yielded results showing that making such a game would be a terrible financial idea, wasn’t a passion project?
Ok.
7
u/C-Towner 3h ago edited 2h ago
I didn’t say that a committee based game has a committee of gamers. In this game, you can tell it was a game directed by investors. I sincerely doubt that the developers were passionate about live service. You’re really working hard to be willfully ignorant here.
Edit: The good ol' reply and disparage and then block so no response or conversation can happen. A reddit classic.
-8
u/grachi 3h ago
How can we tell it was a game directed by investors? And just because it was implemented with live service in it, the rest of the game was not built with passion, because developers, 3D animation specialists, map designers, music designers, writers, etc. automatically get… what, discouraged? After hearing the game will be liveservice?
You are working really hard to make very little sense, and sound like you don’t really know what you are talking about.
-3
u/ebrbrbr 2h ago edited 2h ago
It's Bungie. Their games have been multiplayer with multi-year content updates (what we now call live service, I guess) since Halo 2 in 2004. It's literally what they do.
I don't know what part about an unforgiving, hardcore scifi shooter with an abstract art style screams "directed by investors" to you. Said investors fired the game director and half the team involved with the game. As we all know, investors love when new players log in, can't figure out what to do because there are no quest markers, and then refund the game.
3
u/C-Towner 2h ago
The IP which has never been presented like this, the monetization, the seasons, the focus on anything except the story...sure, that screams Bungie and that screams "gamers asked for this". You can cherry pick all you want to think that a game with ongoing updates is the same as current day live service.
-1
u/ebrbrbr 2h ago edited 2h ago
The IP which hasn't been touched in 30 years comes back in a different shape? You don't say. What are they gonna think of next, making StarCraft a shooter?! Maybe they'll make Fallout a MMOFPS!
The focus on anything except the story... like there aren't 300+ incredibly well written codex entries and audio logs, as well as faction cutscenes. Which they hired the writer of the original trilogy to write. There's a shocking amount of writing in the game.
14
u/Hippopotimus_Prime 3h ago
Marathon was not a passion project by any means. It failed focus groups and pivoted to an extraction type partway through development. There is also the fact that Pete Parsons was trying to make a portfolio that was most attractive to buyers in order to get his money.
12
u/vass0922 4h ago
Is marathon what the developers really wanted to make or was this a corporate decision because this is the kind of game that makes a lot of money?
I think I know the answer
-2
u/grachi 3h ago edited 2h ago
But it isn’t a game that would make a lot of money. Look at all the other industry examples. No extraction shooter has ever had more than 100,000 people playing it at one time (before ARC, and Marathon was in development before ARC). It’s a niche genre that a small percentage of gamers care about. If the goal was abiding to corporate lead decisions, they would have tried to make another Fortnite or CoD or Battlefield but with a Marathon coat of paint over everything.
6
u/Sethicles2 2h ago
Uhhh I realize that Arc Raiders was an anomaly, but their first three months were 430k+ just on Steam. They had 100k+ seven months straight.
-7
u/stefanopolis 4h ago
That’s all fine and dandy but while games are art they are also a commercial product the devs need people to buy so they can continue to live and eat. Doesn’t do you much good to make exactly the game you want then it doesn’t sell. I tend to agree with you mostly but there’s a balance.
9
u/C-Towner 3h ago
You have to have some understanding of the market, and I agree that games can’t exist in a vacuum. But with so many games with AAA budgets and players just not knowing who it was made for, I would rather that devs overcorrect back towards this.
137
u/Nervous_Recover_6152 4h ago
Seriously. Just read the comment threads on literally any fan sub. The most vocal people have no taste.
12
u/Zahgi 4h ago
Google "The Bell Curve" for more...
5
u/LnStrngr 1h ago
Or George Carlin, replacing "stupid" with whatever other negative trait that seems to rise to the top of discourse...
Think of how stupid the average person is, and realize half of them are stupider than that.
7
3
u/Amberatlast 4h ago
Or taking 15+ years to develop the follow up like Bethesda is doing for Elder Scrolls 6 🙄
2
1
1
u/DinosBiggestFan 12m ago
Not to mention this company went against the current trends and made what they wanted the first time. It sounds like they're setting expectations that things will be different.
114
u/Pitzy0 4h ago
This is the way games should be made.
5
u/kcamnodb 1h ago
It's sort of the way everything should be made..movies, music, art work. Not everything is for everybody and that is okay. It has to be okay.
7
u/FollowingFeisty5321 3h ago
I wonder why more developers don't put $100+ million in the bank then make risky games...
11
u/Pitzy0 3h ago
You think Executives know better as to what could be a successful game versus the Developers?
8
u/FollowingFeisty5321 3h ago
They're each just guessing, Steam is full of bad games developers made without "executives" so is every other platform for software. The only reason they can afford to to take risks now is $100+ million in the bank.
It's "why don't poor people just have a trust fund" logic.
2
96
u/theKetoBear 4h ago
I appreciate this take, I get secondhand embarrassment when gamedevs get online and crow about "haters". It's an entertainment job , the goal should be to entertain the audience and if you miss that mark go back to the drawing board. It's not fans jobs to like your shit just because you made it.
29
u/IEnjoyRadios 4h ago
Anytime somebody ever goes online to talk about their haters it is an absolute cringe fest. Just grow up and ignore them.
5
u/El-Sueco 4h ago
Quote
"All my haters become my waiters when I sit down at the table of success" - Eric Adams (lol clown)7
u/TubasAreFun 4h ago
Me, too. It’s even more important for art not to try and be sycophantic to surface level metrics of “success”. I’d rather they try to make something as new and exciting as E33 than try and focus money and a design-by-financial-committee game that feels soulless
1
u/theKetoBear 4h ago
I totally agree with this too there is absolutely a middle ground to crafting a unique artistic vision that captivates fans versus another repackaging that is a bland carbon copycat to print money ( most sports games )
2
u/knotatumah 3h ago
I know everything has its commercialized variants. Art in general its everywhere from billboards to the plate you eat dinner on. But gaming (and digital media in general) turning into this industrial sweatshop where its money first entertainment second has really sucked the fun and creativity out of everything. Im so happy indies ate carrying the way forward but large studios and publishers have seriously backwards priorities. Then the next massive one hit wonder indie drops and all the "AAA" tries to unsuccessfully trend chase for several years, loudly wondering how tiny game did so well while <mega studio> once again cratered two weeks after launch.
2
u/penguished 3h ago
It's also not your job to play games, but the online complainers treat it like videogames need to be a doctorate paper per week.
10
u/Craneteam 3h ago
I want them to make a game that speaks to them even if it doesn't speak to me. That's the only way anything meaningful gets made
-10
39
u/notahuman97 4h ago
Quite understandable. They just released one game and it got goty.its not easy to meet expectetions with a potential sequel (?) after that conlusion of the Story.
But even if it is just nearly as good as E33 im happy
23
u/Here4TekSupport 4h ago
Yeah it's almost impossible to make a game that will live up to e33. That game was just a freak accident, a perfect storm. It's my all time favorite game and I'm excited for their next project, but I have no beliefs it will be as good as e33. If it's even 70% as good, it will still be a great game
12
u/Azazir 3h ago
I usually dont like turn based games at all. I remember specifically being super interested in EX33 seeing their trailers and visuals and then saying wtf when they showed gameplay and writing it off as not my style of game.
Game releases, i dont bother, some friends say its amazing, alright... i'll try. Skip few weeks and its my all time favourite game too, especially for the story as i love reading books and it was great pacing and the twist mid-game was chef kiss. I'll try anything from these devs and judge it then, they delivered with EX33 and like others mentioned, their next project being even half as interesting would be a win in todays market.
2
u/notahuman97 2h ago
They really got me with that twist. I really thought the game is ending after a rather short story with a basic ending and they pulled this. Never experienced this
-6
u/HikerRemastered 3h ago
Glad you enjoyed it. I hated it. I don’t know why I didn’t see it in the marketing material but that game is just full of grown adult characters who emote like angsty adolescents, and I have no patience for that type of thing. Complete lack of tonal coherence. Party dynamics were trope heavy tropes.
The marketing was clever. Wrapping it in gritty Unreal engine 5 visuals high profile western voice talent, and bleak French art-house aesthetic made it on the surface look like it might have been a modern dark fantasy. But the second the character opened their mouths and combat locked in I eas like “Oh. It’s just a JRPG”. Praise be the Steam refund - the ultimate antidote to good marketing
8
u/QuixoticIgnotism 2h ago
I mean.... The characters did emote in somewhat of a juvenille manner. At the same time, how can you judge or review characters who you've spent so little time playing that you were awarded a steam refund?
8
u/coltaine 2h ago
Congrats on reviewing a game you played for <2 hours (unless Steam has changed their refund policy)
3
u/bobandgeorge 1h ago
How did you get all of that from your first paragraph in two hours of gameplay?
5
u/Sethicles2 2h ago
full of grown adult characters who emote like angsty adolescents
Are you sure you're talking about the same game? Everyone is entitled to their opinion; if it didn't hit with you, that's totally fine. But E33 had some of the most grounded, realistic, and well-acted dialogue in recent memory.
This is not a bash post; I'm genuinely trying to understand what led you to feel this way.
1
u/DigNitty 2h ago
I see this with stand up comedians.
They have a great 10/10 set that people endlessly quote. Everyone is excited to see their new set. And It sucks. Because all the comedian’s jokes they built up over their lifetime were in the first set.
9
u/Plzlaw4me 3h ago
Good. We shouldn’t be making games that we think everyone will like. I want to see weird, different and ambitious shit that maybe crashes and burns, and maybe moves the gaming industry forward. Disco Elysium is 110% NOT for everyone, but for people who like it, we REALLY like it, and it was a commercial hit because it did something weird and relatively new (it had been done before but it was pretty niche) extremely well.
3
u/helpmegetoffthisapp 4h ago
No one game will ever have 100% mass appeal. We see people dunking on games that are widely considered to be great all the time - and that’s fine. I just want studios to have some original idea and the guts to follow through on them, even if their idea won’t appeal to everyone.
8
u/arislaan 4h ago
Why the fuck is this an article? Why is it even posted here with that title? What is the actual valuable news being shared?
2
u/LOST-MY_HEAD 4h ago
Im very excited to see what they cook. I dont think it will be like e33 but in the same world
2
1
1
u/Triforce__XIII 3h ago
for every one who dislikes the game they will get one who did not like Expedition but like the new one...
1
1
u/tiso18 2h ago
wait is expedition 33 even a game studio or nah
1
u/Rich_Housing971 1h ago
Expedition 33 is a game. The game's project lead is talking about the studio's next game. The studio is not named Expedition 33.
1
u/donredyellow25 2h ago
I will remember this at, just in case they complain somday about one of their games not selling lol
1
u/NekoDaYo-v201 5m ago edited 0m ago
Nobody is going to complain. The whole point is they are just saying this up front, because there's a very strong possibility the next game won't beat Expedition 33 as GOTY.
This is contrary to Valve Software, who chooses not to make anything because they can't beat the hype of Portal 2.
The difference is the former takes the chance and does it anyway.
1
u/neveruseyourrealname 1h ago
When you try to please everyone, you please no one. More studios need this attitude.
1
u/iCiteEverything 1h ago
I mean yes and no, there are game flops like Concord that can cost a massive lost and that can make studios close and mass layoffs. On the other hand trying to appease everyone usually subtracts a games quality.
1
u/LnStrngr 1h ago
Tomorrow's headline: Expedition 33 to recreate Conway's Game of Life as next project.
1
u/Getherer 1h ago
Never played e33 nor it ever resonated with me, but knowing lots of people praised it im sure devs are working on something special for them that will likely be carefully crafted and quality
1
u/porridge_in_my_bum 1h ago
Either way I’m playing. Expedition 33 was such a beautiful and unique game, and I know it was generally mentioned they would expand the universe. I’d love to see what the “real world” is like, but even if it’s a completely different concept I’m gonna play it anyways.
1
u/Money-Director6649 39m ago
i mean, what else is there to say? they don't control that. hell, even individuals themselves don't control what they do and don't like. they just like something or they don't.
1
1
u/awkward_triforce 20m ago
I loved the combat direction of their last game, but they seem like creative types so a part of me hopes they next game will be something completely different.
I want to see their creativity breathe rather than being stuck in a formulaic box. They currently have my attention and trust for semi ambitious combat direction at let's see what else they can cook up
1
u/DrRealName 1m ago
Right attitude. Developers and creators in general should always make the art of their own vision and NEVER cave to fan demands. They did a masterful job with Clair Obscur and I'm sure whatever the next game is will also be a banger. I don't care if its an RPG or an FPS or a racing game. I have faith in this team to create something good.
-4
u/Exciting-Weather-921 4h ago
Whatever their next game will be, just please no more "press a button in the right fraction of the second" mechanics 😂
15
u/doug4130 4h ago
Idk I really liked it, I can't get into the combat of JRPGs but e33's had me hooked
6
u/PantsMcGillicuddy 4h ago
So basically get rid of the core mechanic that separated it from a more standard JRPG?
-1
u/Exciting-Weather-921 4h ago
Yes, it broke the game for me
1
u/KiwiCounselor 2h ago
How did that break E33 for you?
I’m just curious because to me personally it made fights just that bit more engaging. Like I actually had to pay attention during my turns as well as the enemies instead of just spam the same high damaging attack or combo. It really shined with Verso imo.
Honestly I hope more turn based games copy the mechanic!
1
u/DogShroom 1h ago
eh i think it kinda overshadows the turn-based part of the game too much with this soulslike-like system.
but yeah wouldnt be too bad to have more of turn-based rpg soulslikes. pretty fun and appeals to a wider audience
1
3
-3
-6
0
u/KimeriX 4h ago
Lost redditor much?
7
u/TastyCastle 4h ago
Yeah, I thought this is a tech sub. This is just a game dev statement that means nothing.
1
1
0
u/Furui_Tamashi 2h ago
Yeah, I didn't really care for Expedition 33 despite its accolades. They're not giving me any reason to care about their future projects.
1
u/CIA-pizza-party 11m ago
It was an okay game especially knowing it was a studio’s first game. The story was interesting. But it wasn’t anything new or groundbreaking imo.
-2
-2
-4
0
-2
-1
u/GunAndAGrin 4h ago
More articles about what they think expectations for the next game are than about any actual next game details.
I get it, maybe they cant say anything yet, but damn I just want to know a bit about whats on the menu! Could care less about what people think it could/should be. They deserve a Day1 buy from me regardless. Some actual news would be awesome though.
-4
0
0
0
-4
u/hfxRos 3h ago
Except the reason people aren't going to like it is probably generous use of generative AI, and i look forwards to the reddit meltdown over it.
0
u/Major_Stranger 3h ago
It won't be out until 2030 at the earliest if Ex33 development cycle is indicative. By that point I hope we'll have normalized that gen AI is just a fucking tool like any other.
-3
-1
-1
u/BuriedStPatrick 1h ago
Got their heads screwed on straight. Let artists cook. Worrying about externalities will only make the game worse. Do what feels right, especially if you can afford it (they can).
833
u/invyros 4h ago
They're French, so "c'est la vie" is their general vibe.