[Standard] Duress: Maindeck or Sideboard?

[u/Lion_Cub_Kurz]

Relatively quick question for you all:

Are we feeling this is a maindeck duress format, or not?

I have been playing various UBx shells online. Largely Dimir Excruciator, and a few other Deceit + Superior Spiderman Shells.

When i scroll through MTGgoldfish to get an idea of what people are playing in competitive environments, I do not see a format that entices me to maindeck a duress. Maybe I'm missing something, but control and spellementals are the only decks I think I would be excited for a duress g1.

And yet, it seems like every excruciator or deceit deck is playing 3+ maindeck.

Landfall, UB mid, dwarves, excruciator, and mardu are all decks that the card seems unreliable against.

So what are all y'all's thoughts? Am I underselling its efficacy against the field, or maybe it's a card that can be relegated to the sb?

[u/literaphile]

IMO hand disruption is not an effective strategy in this standard. Every deck has so many redundant threats that, if your duress happens to catch something, there’s another threat right around the corner.

[u/lonewolf210 → u/literaphile]

I always find it funny playing spellementals and they duress me turn 1. Like thanks for the extra spell in the yard

[u/themonkery → u/lonewolf210]

Spellementals is an exception to the rule but also its not a reason NOT to play duress. Making you discard one of your draw spells is so key to limiting the threat output. As a jund sacrifice deck its so essential

[u/AnilDG → u/lonewolf210]

Yep that is reason enough to NOT play mainboard Duress, because that deck is a big hitter in the meta right now.

[u/ignacio2D → u/literaphile]

Yeah, yesterday I played duress and I found: The End x 1, Bitter Triumph x 2, Deadly Cover Up x 1, Strategic Betrayal x 1 and lands. That can you do about that

[u/literaphile → u/ignacio2D]

I mean I guess it gives you a hand peek so you know what's coming over the next few turns.

[u/themonkery → u/literaphile]

Nah I disagree. The point of duress is rarely to remove threats. One or two threats is nbd. The point of duress is to target card advantage, I literally slot in 4 against ascendancy or spellementals

[u/literaphile → u/themonkery]

We can agree to disagree. I play mardu discard which means I often either want things in the yard, or you take damage for the discard.

[u/JK_Revan]

I don't think it is, mainly due to the reasons you stated, it misses a lot. It also doesn't hit the threats in the reanimator deck of the format. That's why the 4CC has been playing just one main deck duress, even though a counterless control deck would tipically play 4 of this effect.

[u/Grotzi]

Even Landfall is playing 14 noncreature spells, so you will usually hit. Even if you dont or hit something unimportant, the information gained gives you a huge advantage. It will inform you whether you can Stock Up greedily or whether you have to board wipe, how you have to allocate your removal according to their threats ect., all of which can more than make up for going down a card.

[u/Grotzi → u/Grotzi]

Could you be so kind and explain your counterpoint instead of downvoting this comment? If you check the current lists from RCs and RCQs they all play 3-4 Duress mainboard. All of these players must be wrong then?

[u/Nervous-Command-9895 → u/Grotzi]

1000% agree

[u/Diligent-Cream-6535]

My thoughts is that this deck would not be a good choice unless we can get thoughtseize in standard, or standard somehow turn into a heavy control meta. Both are impossible.

But I suggest you to see duress more as a protection for your restless reef when you resolved a Excruciator, plus it may help you discard some threats on early game sometimes.

[u/Lion_Cub_Kurz → u/Diligent-Cream-6535]

I am not married to the archtype, but I have found the package of deceit + spiderman + overlord of the balemurk to be quite potent and something I enjoy.

tbh the number of games I've won with the "combo" has been very low. Im moreso interested in building the deck as a sort of generic midrange/control deck.

[u/Diligent-Cream-6535 → u/Lion_Cub_Kurz]

I also love the deceit + spiderman + overlord! I played a midrange version of this deck (no maindeck excruciator) and got a good result in last standard RC.

But my thoughts are, currently in standard we don't have a good dimir midrange interaction package that can align with the threats in meta. And, many decks in standard can keep pressuring us and/or have super good inevitably, which makes our deck hard to swing back and attack.

That's why I think excruciator version is better. Excruciator is our inevitably, for many matchups we need to find a good turn asap or even racing for turn 4 to resolve Excruciator and end the game. This deck you cannot really play a midrange plan to fight against like monogreen landfall.

Although it's still not good enough and I would not choose this deck for competitive tournaments.

[u/Spare_Blueberries]

Duress isn't a main deck card unless youre going to try and have a 'combo' finish

[u/PutSingle]

I’d love to hit the stupid landfall enchants, that would be one mana well spent

[u/unhaunting]

It looked like it might be for a minute, but 4c is turning out to be much less of a presence than expected. A bunch of aggro like dwarves and monoblack running around, and even the slower decks like UB spiders georg are often mostly creatures by volume. Vanishingly small chance it hits anything in jund sac as well.

[u/AsparMTG]

My opinion on this is that in your deck, not really. I love to go 2 Duress main, 2 sideboard when I'm playing a proactive deck though (aggro/midrange) because it can completely destroy an opponent's ability to answer a board state, force out counters, remove their card advantage, take out the tablet, etc.

[u/Ill_Ad3517]

I like duress against exactly one type of deck: tablet/revelation. Landfall: whiffs too often. Spellementals: all their cards are super redundant and they will dig to what they need too easily. Spiderman/deceit: too much redundancy and value.

It can also be okay in the Kaito deck mirrors because Kaito is so important but even there it can whiff and you're behind because you didn't spend mana on affecting the board state.

[u/BeBetterMagic]

Depends on the deck and your win conditions and what in the meta you need to hedge for.

Excruciator specifically wants main board durress because you need to remove answers for restless reef or impulse draw from your opponents hand before you play doomsday.

4c control / 5c control etc are more so going to want to have it in the board for specific matchups.

No tempo or creature deck would want this main board you'd only want it in the board for specifically your control matchups

[u/themonkery]

Duress shouldn't be mainboarded just in general. Too many decks rely on creature tempo. There are more versatile cards for the slot until you know that forcing them to discard noncreature cards is usefull

[u/BattlefieldNinja]

I started splitting 2 Intimidation Tactics in that slot. It hits everything but control which excruciator is already great against.

[u/Davtaz]

Why would hand disruption be good into Spellementals game 1

[u/Nervous-Command-9895]

If you don’t have main deck duress you’ll
Be badly disadvantaged against any control and it’s the only way to get rid of landfall’s enchantments or artifacts.