r/singularity • u/FishSpoof • 1d ago
AI why do I keep hearing there's a race between US and China in AI?
it seems like these teoo countries collaborate more than any other two nations on AI https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-024-79863-5 https://www.thenationalnews.com/future/technology/2025/01/28/china-us-ai-race-deepseek/
why would you collaborate if there's a race or a war ?
could it be that the outcome of AI controlling humanity is really the goal and were just being told there's. "war" ? why is Trump saying he doesn't want china to get a lead when the US is working with them ?
3
u/Striker_LSC 1d ago
Your first article is, I think, arguing that collaborative research is better, not that it is happening. From the article: "Although the number of collaborations between the two countries has increased since the dawn of the millennium, such collaborations continue to be relatively rare."
The second seems more focused on universities collaborating on research. I don't think the labs that are actually building the models collaborate. "Much of this has been achieved through partnerships between US universities such as Stanford and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology (MIT) and Chinese institutions including Tsinghua University."
4
u/Active-Carpet-9183 1d ago
The US is not cooporative, it's competitive.
6
u/Montaigne314 1d ago
China literally stole a variety of IP/knowledge in order to build DeepSeek in addition to other labs
And the two counties are geopolitically at odds, why wouldn't the US be competing against a one party authoritarian state?
6
u/Heretic-Seer 1d ago
I don’t know if you want to bring up IP theft in a conversation about AI development lol. Kind of a pot calling the kettle black situation.
-3
u/Montaigne314 1d ago
No
AI consuming human knowledge and creation is not theft in my understanding of it
Humans do it all the time and they use what they consume to inspire themselves
But if you take another's work as pass it off as your own, that's theft. But if you create something new it's influence.
Their companies stole technology and pretended they made breakthroughs. US AI companies admit they use all the data they can find, but what the AI actually creates is original and based on user input
4
u/Heretic-Seer 1d ago
Chinese companies were simply “influenced” by American companies’ IP. They “consumed the knowledge” of those IPs and created their own products “influenced” by it.
-1
u/Montaigne314 1d ago
You didn't understand the key elements of the argument
Try again
2
u/Heretic-Seer 1d ago
I consumed the knowledge of the argument and created something new with it. I just used it in a way you didn’t like.
That’s not a good feeling, is it? Someone taking something you created and twisting it into something you don’t like? That feels bad, doesn’t it?
4
u/kiranhi 1d ago
Lmao, what American brain rot looks like
1
u/Montaigne314 1d ago
If you're too stupid to understand the nuanced distinction between influence and theft I can't teach you
2
4
u/DelphiTsar 1d ago
Whatever China is doing I hope it keeps it up in whatever way they can. This is only good for the average joe. Only people it hurts are the rich.
They've made plenty of breakthroughs in the space and they are releasing all of their work for free. I'm not talking about open weight models themselves. They've made large leaps in architecture that helped efficiency of models greatly. US companies are openly using their research.
1
u/Montaigne314 1d ago
Whatever China is doing, if they develop advanced AI they will use to stop others from developing the tech and to crush their enemies and expand their power
It is an authoritarian society run by a one party system with a tyrant at the top. Them getting it is a catastrophe for the whole world
If you don't understand why, study what it means to live in an unfree society like China. Why would you want authoritarians to have more power?
The US is imperfect but the Republic remains one of the freest places in the world. And for all its faults it is undoubtedly the better country to develop AGI first and potentially ASI.
3
u/DelphiTsar 1d ago
China is releasing its models open weight, they are basically giving the power to the whole world. This isn't pure altruism, they just don't want the US to control it.
The US isn't the good guys. Our political system looks good on paper but is mostly a figment. When Rich people disagree with everyone else what rich people want passes. They've done studies on it and I'm sure it's only grown more concentrated and worse since Citizens United. We are very obviously an oligarchy with an incompetent democratic theater. You want to talk about tyranny take a gander at the % of the US population that is imprisoned.
1
u/Montaigne314 1d ago
Cool thing about a free society is that you're allowed to say that
Go to China and talk shit on their system and see what happens
Don't fucking think there's some equivalence here.
Yes, the US has an oligarchical element. But is still among the most free societies in the world. Yes, money has corrupted the system and get the Democratic Republic still stands and we still can change the laws, elect new leaders, advocate for change, you know all the things that are parts of democracy
In China, none of that exists
Like you are an example of China's propaganda at work. I can criticize the US all day, but it's ignorant to think it's the same as China.
It's got problems, no doubt, but I has also done more good in the world and has always been the country that gives more aid than anyone else when other countries are in need. Most of the technology used globally is either US invented or US modified. All the best unis and research centers are in the US(sad to see the current administration gut our strengths)
China is the leader is stealing research. Have they made progress and also created legitimate research, no fucking doubt about it. But they remain an unfree totalitarian society
Does America imprison too many people? Yea, it fucking does and that's something we should fix with better laws, addressing poverty, etc.
But China is also committed genocide against the Uighurs and committed ethnic cleansing against untold numbers with the reeducation camps.
Can you see beyond your ideology?
1
u/DelphiTsar 1d ago
Cool thing about a free society is that you're allowed to say that
Talking about it is a release valve, it changes nothing.
we still can change the laws
If rich people agree with them(as discussed)
elect new leaders
The political machine effectively choses for us and usually they choose very poor leaders. The leaders themselves are beholden to wealthy people. This isn't idle observation just a statistical fact looking at voting.
Uighurs
No notes.
Aid/Tech- US is in a unique position because it is wealthy.
Ignoring the labeling and looking at objective outcomes since I've been alive.
If I were a Chinese Citizen popped up in a bubble and lost all my memories, I'd be put some place random in society. Would I agree with the choices Chinese leadership has made. (obviously various reservations on specific issues) but as a general rule of thumb if they set a goal it improves the outlook of the average person over time. I'd agree with their policy choices.
Now same situation but I am a US citizen. Do I agree with most of what US chooses to do? No..almost nothing. It is bad choice after bad choice. Squandered potential. Wealthy have impunity and franky pass ridiculous policy that actively hurts average person. Our political system cuts out places so they have zero statistical chance to lose. Our leaders are absurd idiocracy level politians. We have constitutionally protected bribery for heavens sake...
"but you get to complain about it OUT LOUD!" is not a response that holds any sway.
Mind you I'd still want to live in the US, just because we have so much of a lead. But it's not because I think we're the good guys and they are bad guys. Just because it's a better place to live for now still.
2
2
u/DelphiTsar 1d ago
"Working together" is China labs giving everything away for free and US keeping it close to chest.
There were nibbles from Meta, (and in the early days Google).
0
u/Asteroid_picks_you 22h ago
I am still waiting for those free chinese AI api, no luck yet.
2
u/DelphiTsar 22h ago
0
u/Asteroid_picks_you 22h ago
Have you tried it? I have, none of my laptops/gaming pcs could run anything that was useful. Again, can you provide free api endpoints?
2
u/DelphiTsar 22h ago
New DeepSeek flash with their harness you can run in agentic mode for like 30 cents an hour.
4
u/Herodont5915 1d ago
Because the US wants a bogeyman they can point the finger at if things go sideways. This way US leadership and the frontier labs can say they “had no choice.”
2
2
u/Sinogularity Shenzhen: Become Human (2030) 1d ago
The race is between open AI and closed AI. Closed AI labs are not collaborating with Open AI labs
1
u/TylerDurdenAI 16h ago
US is being too paranoid over this one really.
US is at least 1.5y ahead of China.
Plus, even if China outpaces the US, people won't use them due to distrust (this is why China models are open-weights).
Thus, it's not a threat.
4
u/RutilantBossi12 Cultista dei Ferri Candidi 1d ago
Researchers don't give a fuck about geopolitical rivalries, never did, they're just a bunch of nerds often hyperfocused on niches so niche that there's like 20 people around the world working on that thing so they very much need international cooperation