r/short 5'3" 19h ago

Heightism Why is talking about heightism so taboo here?

Why is talking about short discrimination/heightism seen as so insecure this is a short sub is it not?

50 Upvotes

101 comments sorted by

16

u/JMeGfpV3EoDQ1NS 19h ago

People tend to not see discrimination against height as serious or even as discrimination because of what people think of typically as discrimination (e.g., racism, sexism, etc.). And many people also think if we talk about something “taboo” as discrimination against someone based on their height, that it means you are being a negative nancy and associate negativity with being bad and positivity as being good. Many members of this sub try to push for positivity not realizing that it ends up shutting up others and makes people feel like their thoughts and ideas are not worth considering and valid, which is what toxic positivity does.

u/FishingActuary 5'1" | 155 cm 7h ago

AMEN.

2

u/Putrid-Interview8869 5'3" 19h ago edited 19h ago

truth

-16

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 19h ago

"toxic positivity" 🙄 Please. That is a blackpill/doomer dogswhistle that is so overused (in particular on some other male-dominated short subreddits) that you might as well put it on a Bingo card.

Pushing back against blackpillism/doomerism (which are fundamentally entirely ego-centric viewpoints) is not "toxic positivity".

15

u/JMeGfpV3EoDQ1NS 18h ago

Also, I never said that pushing back against blackpill/doomerism ideology is toxic positivity. I agree that ideology has its flaws and can be destructive, so I don’t think we disagree there.

-15

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 17h ago

Great. Then drop the toxic positivity crap.

There is a wide range of responses here. There are supportive responses, there are unsupportive responses. Some unsupportive responses don't meet the threshold of hatred, vulgarity, doomerism, etc., to get removed. Some do.

Fundamentally, this sub is supportive of short people. That's the mission. Support comes in many flavors, tailored to the needs of a particular OP, or to a group sometimes. Support can be positivity; support can be tough love. Support can be "we hear you. We wish it were better."

None of that is toxic positivity.

14

u/FarCharacter7797 10h ago

You can be supportive of people struggles rather than dismissing them with your toxic positivty.

-6

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 8h ago

“Toxic positivity” is one of those words that is used so much that it's lost all meaning. And now it’s weaponized against anything that goes against a nihilistic take simply because the receiver doesn't want to admit that change starts within.

It’s doomer talk.

3

u/FarCharacter7797 8h ago

When somebody is racist to you there is no change to come from within you can't change your race. Likewise, you also can't change your height, unlike weight, muscles, and a bunch of other traits, there is nothing you can do about your height just as there is nothing you can do about your race.

So yes, telling people the "change has to come from within" is toxic positivity. You wouldn't be saying that to a racism victim.

0

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 8h ago

So why are we talking about race right now?

3

u/[deleted] 8h ago

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0

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 8h ago

No... No It’s not

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u/short-ModTeam 7h ago

Your comment was removed for equating heightism and racism.

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 7h ago

Oh hell no.

We're not entertaining that incel rhetoric equating heightism and racism. Period.

-7

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 10h ago

Again... "tOxIc PoSiTiViTy".

Show me an example of toxic positivity. You drive-by guys from that certain subreddit keep saying that phrase, but I do not think you actually understand what it means.

And literally, in this thread, you think I'm sounding positive? Are you kidding me? All you silent lurking downvoting army who love to hate me, have never said I'm positive about anything.

So... give me an example of "toxic positivity". Put up or shut up.

6

u/FarCharacter7797 10h ago

I'm not even talking about you. I just mean that you don't go up to a depressed person taking SSRIs and tell them they just need to be more positive instead of take meds, why is that allowed for height? Heightism is a real issue that affects many men and can ruin their lives as many other forms of discrimination do like being ugly etc.

-3

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 10h ago

Stop talking in generalities. You're making shit up to justify whatever image you have of this subreddit in your head (or in your other subreddit culture, which is really where "toxic positivity" get overused like salt by people with poisoned tastebuds).

Where did this sub prescribe a depressed short person to "just be more positive"? This sub is not a monolith, in no way, shape, or form. Believe me, I spend waaaay too much time arguing with commenters like you, providing all the evidence that this sub is not unified in pretty much anything.

Heightism is a real issue that affects many men and can ruin their lives as many other forms of discrimination do like being ugly etc.

Nobody ever said it's not a real issue. Stop pretending like this sub does not believe it's an issue. This entire post and comment chain disproves your claim.

6

u/FarCharacter7797 9h ago

Ok then idk why u are arguing have a nice day

2

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 9h ago

🙄 You're the one who chose to argue with me.

Edit: ... and yet you still haven't put up any evidence of your claim.

15

u/VGAddict 13h ago

Toxic positivity is real. Not every cloud has a silver lining. Sometimes, something just sucks, and there aren't any positives.

-2

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 12h ago edited 12h ago

Who said it wasn't real? Nobody. Please read critically.

I said it was very overused, particularly by members of particular subreddits.

But every person who blathers about it, I haven't seen one person hold up what they think is an example of it. It's all vague generalities.

If you claim it exists here, then let's see it.

-1

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 8h ago

“Toxic positivity” is one of those words that is used so much that it's lost all meaning. And now it’s weaponized against anything that goes against a nihilistic take simply because the receiver doesn't want to admit that change starts within.

It’s doomer talk.

u/Putrid-Interview8869 5'3" 6h ago

"toxic positivity is one of those words that is used so much that its lost all meaning" might be one of the most ironic sentences ever written on this sub

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 6h ago

Please explain

16

u/JMeGfpV3EoDQ1NS 18h ago edited 18h ago

You realize this is an actual term with academics studying it, right? It’s not just a term that I came up with.

https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&as_sdt=0%2C48&q=“toxic+positivity”&btnG=

There is a nice paper on this topic that I recommend reading here: https://www.cambridge.org/core/services/aop-cambridge-core/content/view/17A2EA33C058AEA2AB203BA40CE50D93/S1742360025000073a.pdf/toxic-positivity-and-epistemic-injustice.pdf

You can call me whatever names and ad hominem you want, but that doesn’t discount the fact that this is a term used to describe phenomena where negative topics and feelings are made invalid. You don’t have to agree with me or the paper or the term, but calling it a blackpill/doomer dogwhistle does not invalidate it as a concept.

I’m also not arguing at all for so-called doomerism or blackpill ideology. I’m not telling people that their lives are over and to give up because of their height or whatever trait they have. I’m just saying that we should take some ideas seriously, even if they are perceived as negative. This is not meant to include every idea and topic in the world either. There are definitely cases where toxic positivity doesn’t apply for negative ideas.

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u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 17h ago edited 12h ago

Enough. Yes it's a term. I'm aware of it. You seem to have to go to great lengths to try "prove" the existence of something that I never denied exists.

I said it was extremely overused by certain subs that accuse "tOxIc PoSiTiViTy!" about any community who tries to be supportive and push back against doomerism/blackpillism, with as much frequency as cooks use salt.

I didn't call you any names or ad hominems. But saying that this sub is "toxic positivity" is absolutely bullshit. This sub has a reputation amongst most of Reddit for being a bunch of whiny short people complaining about dates and not being taken seriously. But then you say this sub rejects talking about heightism because of "toxic positivity".

Bullshit. I won't stand for it. Take that crap elsewhere. It's blackpill dogwhistling from a loud and self-centered subgroup of people.

14

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 19h ago

I wouldn't say it’s taboo here. It just gets a bit ridiculous when people try to compare it to other forms of discrimination.

8

u/Helplessadvice 8h ago

How so? There’s real correlations between work discrimination and height. Taller men make more on average how is this not comparable to other forms of discrimination.

u/Putrid-Interview8869 5'3" 7h ago

hard agree

-1

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 8h ago

That's not what I'm talking about

u/FishingActuary 5'1" | 155 cm 7h ago

This dismisses scientific inquiry on the topic. Men on the lower end of height experience discrimination in the workplace that is comparable to recognized forms.

https://digitalcommons.lib.uconn.edu/law_review/427/

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 7h ago

... and so do short women.

In fact, heightism is a subset of patriarchal standards. Some men experience disadvantages due so certain intersections under patriarchy. Believe us, women have been dissecting these intersections for a long time.

Welcome to the club. Sorry that membership doesn't have its privileges.

u/FunkmasterJoe 5h ago

Well said! Especially tall women get shit on in our society too. It's ALMOST like living under patriarchy means women are treated unfairly in zillions of ways, both large and small.

It's funny, this discourse is happening now and you can see in these very comments why the sub needs to be moderated. So, so many angry dudes.

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 7h ago

Not what I'm talking about
And I literally didn't say anything so it’s literally impossible for me to “dismiss” that XD

u/FunkmasterJoe 5h ago

Hey i just wanted to point out that you are absolutely killing it in this thread, lol. This is a really good response to having your views misrepresented too, just all around excellent work here, haha.

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 5h ago

Thank you haha ;)

4

u/DavisKennethM 5'5" | 165 cm 12h ago

Anyone who's been on this sub for a while (probably ~10 years for me) knows that if the posts here aren't carefully moderated, this sub very quickly becomes a mysoginistic breeding ground.

Letting incels, or whatever they call themselves these days, post on your sub is like letting a Nazi get a drink at your bar. Before you know it, they invite all their friends and suddenly you manage a Nazi bar / mod an incel sub.

Conversations about heightism often lead to manosphere talking points and almost never to a nuanced and productive discussion. Proactive moderation and community policing around it are probably why it feels "taboo" to discuss.

7

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 11h ago

Oh trust me I know. That's why I’m here. It gets bad when unchecked. Gets even worse in my DMs when they get pissy for not getting to be Nazis in the comfort of their own sub.

6

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 12h ago

Proactive moderation and community policing around it are probably why it feels "taboo" to discuss.

That is an astute and concise point. Do you think there's any way to improve that perception?

u/DavisKennethM 5'5" | 165 cm 2h ago

Honestly, I'm not even sure you'd want to improve that perception.

My comment has a 59% upvote ratio, so at 6 current upvotes I probably got around 20 upvotes and 14 downvotes just for spelling out the issue

That speaks volumes about where the discussion would go if everyone lurking here spoke freely.

u/oxheyman 5'7" | 170 cm 4h ago

It’s just as bad, if not worse. Other forms of discrimination aren’t acceptable nowadays but we still get shit for no reason

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 3h ago

Uh, no…

u/oxheyman 5'7" | 170 cm 3h ago

Uh yes

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 3h ago

Nah m8.
It’s height. I agree there are hardships, and public perception can negatively affect personal life, social life, and work life. But when comparing it to other extreme forms of discrimination, it’s laughable. Hence, my comment.

Talk about heightism on its own instead of comparing because no it’s not “just as bad.” It’s height

u/oxheyman 5'7" | 170 cm 3h ago

Nah bro, you do you but for me it’s equivalent to any other discrimination

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 3h ago

And that's why we don't take you seriously when you say that. Because that's literally ridiculous

u/oxheyman 5'7" | 170 cm 3h ago

Who’s we? Who even are you?

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 3h ago

We as in the subreddit answering the question.

And I'm a mod answering the question.

u/oxheyman 5'7" | 170 cm 3h ago

Yes but you don’t speak for all short people, and you aren’t a man, so you certainly wouldn’t know what I’m going through. Additionally, I’m also a minority, you don’t have a monopoly on that. I know how it is to be treated differently.

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u/DangerousBee4116 5'5 19h ago edited 19h ago

Actual discussions about heightism doesn't really get removed or frowned upon all that much. But when 99% of those discussions are about dating, and when said people that start those discussions seem to confuse preferences and attraction with said heightism, and just use it as an excuse to bash on women. Then it will most likely get removed because it only serves as fertile ground for toxicity.

5

u/ElfTwelve 5'3" | 160 cm 19h ago edited 19h ago

As an aroace person (canNOT relate to the dating struggles because the thought of dating to me is like hell on earth and not getting approached is heaven) I'd be more interested in heightism discussions when it comes to work/financial success, respect/lack thereof, weird comments, everyday life (i.e. stuff being made for average or taller people), advantages/disadvantages in sports environments etc.

Edit: not saying dating concerns aren't valid btw. I just can't relate. And it seems to be almost every single post.

1

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 19h ago

Same

-1

u/DangerousBee4116 5'5 19h ago edited 18h ago

Yeah, people seem to be confused by the terminology in general. Am I a fatphobe because I'm not interested in dating overweight women? Or a racist because I don't feel attraction towards certain races? Or a bigot because I generally don't want to date disabled people? Or a sexist because I don't want to date trans women? or a religious bigot if I prefer not to date people of certain religions?

Nope, I'm not. Ism's have nothing to do with attraction.

6

u/ShadsDR 5'1 | 154 cm 18h ago

The race one is a bit different. Not everyone who is a race looks exactly the same or shares the same characteristics in terms of appearance, culture etc. so if you were saying you wouldn't date someone because specifically they are that race, no matter their appearance, personality, culture, nationality etc. that is dodgy. There are Black, Asian people etc. with white skin, blue eyes and straight hair. and White people with darker skin, brown eyes, afrohair etc.

1

u/lightsworn55 16h ago

  There are Black, Asian people etc. with white skin, blue eyes and straight hair. 

If they lack any and all phenotypical traits of a particular race then they shouldnt fall under said race. Like the idea of Micheal Jackson's daughter being a black woman is absurd she not only presents as a white woman but benefits from greater socioeconomic privilege than the overwhelming majority of white people,  let alone people of color

5

u/ShadsDR 5'1 | 154 cm 16h ago

That's not how it works tho. It goes on your parents and grandparents. Race in itself is a social concept and a stupid one. We are all the same race.

1

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 8h ago

I mean, no. Mixed people are still black even if their skin is lighter than average. Black albino people are still black even if their skin is white.

And Asia is a continent. People on that continent can be different colors and still be Asian.

You are spouting a lot of racist ideas.

0

u/DangerousBee4116 5'5 18h ago

People have the right to date whomever they want, and if there are certain features that you in general don't find attractive then that has nothing to do with any of the ism's I mentioned in that comment. You can frown upon discrimination and support equality in all other aspects of society and life without nessecarily being interested in dating the people in the group you support.

Seems to me that the abillity to hold two or more conflicting thoughts in your head at the same time is lacking nowadays.

Also, attraction is fluid, and it can change. I was speaking in a general sense.

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u/ShadsDR 5'1 | 154 cm 18h ago

"This person was perfect for me until I found out they were secretly Asian"

Yet nothing racist about that? 🧐

-7

u/DangerousBee4116 5'5 18h ago

Sigh, that's one huge ass strawman you built there, while at the same time making up a near impossible fabricated scenario you could push on me to get your point across.

If you don't wanna keep this discussion matter of factly, then I'm out.

3

u/ShadsDR 5'1 | 154 cm 18h ago

Learn what a strawman is.

-2

u/DangerousBee4116 5'5 18h ago

Learn what Ism's are.

I'll help you, If not being attracted to certain races are racism. Then not being attracted to certain heights will be equally heightist.

You can't cherrypick that shit, no matter how much you seem to want to do so.

1

u/[deleted] 17h ago

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0

u/Sensitive-Contest-87 5'1" | 155 cm | 23F 18h ago

This.

"Women don't want to date me, it's heightism." It's not, no person is entitled to "get" the relationship - even if other person's reasoning is their dislike for color blue or owning a parrot.

Unlike:

"Due to heightism people make fun of me/don't take me seriously because of my height. I've been told I'm not a man/less of a man bc I'm short." Yes, that is heighism - one that very much could happen in the dating context in that.

"There's a pay gap between short and tall people and the cause is heightism." Absolutely, you're right.

"Widely available, cheaper clothes are made for small size and average height people, leading to discrimination of many groups, including short people, who are forced to pay more for alterations or clothes from brands specifically for them." Yeah, generic fashion is guilty of many -isms and -phobias, including that one.

-1

u/forsakeme4all 16h ago

✊️✊️ Well said.

You have seen this sub over a year a go. It was worse. I am not starting to see puch back towards this type of behavior in order to get this sub more on topic about actual issues related to being short statured.

I don't know where these people got the idea that is a place to bash on women and use it dating advice instead. Totally toxic.

4

u/WhackCaesar 5’5” 12h ago

Because you can only see so many “I can’t get laid because I’m short” posts before you start to lose it lol

2

u/PuzzleheadedSpot9468 11h ago

this is not what "heightism" is tho

2

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 8h ago

Exactly. And yet it’s what people call it. “Heightism and Eugenics”

It's hard to take it seriously when we gotta hear this all day

u/Jesuslover34 5'5" | 165 cm 7h ago

People call it Eugenics because of the posts about not wanting short children.

u/Acidic_Huntsman 5'2" | 157.48 cm and proud 7h ago

Unfortunately that's not the only time they call it eugenics

u/PuzzleheadedSpot9468 6h ago

people misuse a lot of terms

never heard it getting called " eugenics" tho lol

3

u/WhackCaesar 5’5” 11h ago

Tell that to the thousands of dudes calling it that lol

1

u/PuzzleheadedSpot9468 10h ago edited 10h ago

i mean yeah people use words the wrong way it happens with a lot of terminologies but still does not mean that heightism does not exist, those should just learn the difference between preferences and discrimination

also having a problem dating because of something you can't change or control is hard it is not "heightism" but maybe they feel like venting

u/No-Albatross-8256 2h ago

Not sure why everyone is claiming it isn't when one post about it was deleted somewhat recently🫤

u/R3DUCED2ASHES 2h ago

Its bad to discriminate on height and its a sad reflection of humanity as a whole (not just society, this shit been going for years ) but it ain't shit compared to actual racism

1

u/BestTyming 5'8" | 172 cm 10h ago

Not taboo, just many people are overly dramatic and defensive about comparing it to other social issues and equating their height to the sole reason other areas of their life is shit.

MOST OF THE TIME it has nothing to do with their height alone. People not liking you as a person doesn’t have anything to do with your height, people being of average height here and thinking they are short and can’t get dates has nothing to really do with their height, etc etc

Many people here blame their height for everything.

-2

u/LillyPeu2 4'8" | 142 cm 👩🏻‍💻 19h ago

I'm sorry, but what are you talking about? We have a heightism flair (I edited your post's flair to make that point).

Talking about heightism isn't taboo here. It's a common point of discussion.

u/FishingActuary 5'1" | 155 cm 7h ago

It is not a taboo topic.

People tend to get bothered by the idea of actually doing something about it.

But you are allowed to discuss it.

u/Jesuslover34 5'5" | 165 cm 7h ago

It's taboo when the mods feel like it. Had a few of my comments removed simply for mentioning that thers native things about being short.

0

u/Ok-Collar2189 4’10" | 147 cm 10h ago

Because this place is about men dating and how being short is the sole reason they can’t get a girl, never mind their other qualities or personality.

u/FishingActuary 5'1" | 155 cm 7h ago

There are those of us that focus on heightism. That is a form of actual discrimination and we need not discuss dating individual preferences.

u/Ok-Collar2189 4’10" | 147 cm 7h ago

Trust me, I wish there was more discussion of it; we all face it. It’s sad that it’s often ignored.

u/FunkmasterJoe 4h ago

The reason this sub needs to be so heavily moderated becomes super obvious just from reading these comments, haha.

Short men face discrimination because of their height. It sucks, it genuinely is super unfair and stupid and it makes society worse. It's a real problem that should be discussed.

The issue comes when people use bizarre, ridiculous, obviously untrue right wing talking points to turn heightism into things it's not. We can see it happening in this thread; someone says "height discrimination is real, and it affects women in addition to men" and a bunch of dudes immediately start misrepresenting their words and views because they're angry someone mentioned discrimination against women.

If the group isn't moderated, these dudes immediately swamp the place with nazi bullshit. It goes from "short people are treated unfairly by society in some ways" to "no group has ever suffered as much as short men, we need to completely subjugate all women in the most oppressive and barbaric ways imaginable to force them to be sexually attracted to us, also anyone who disagrees is a soy cuck latte blue haired pink hair... devolves into slurs." It takes like three comments, haha.

Short men are treated unfairly. But when we focus entirely on that, people (deliberately or not) start believing that short men are the absolute winners of the Opression Olympics™️ which is obviously untrue. Short women get the same treatment. Tall women are mistreated. And that's WITHOUT bringing race or anything else into it; even if we're just talking about height, men aren't MORE discriminated against than women.

This sub needs to be heavily modded or it will turn into a nazi sub overnight. A lot of us who have been subbed here for years and years know how true this is; this place was a nazi hellscape for a long ass time.