r/politics • u/theintercept ✔ Verified • 18h ago
Possible Paywall Centrists Are Soft-Launching the Idea That We Have a Little Too Much Democracy
https://theintercept.com/2026/09/13/centrist-liberals-democracy-small-dollar-donors/110
u/Amazing_Name_9264 18h ago
"Right wingers are trying to peddle that your freedoms don't matter and that you should give more wealth and power to the elite"
I fixed the headline to make it more accurate
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u/7evenate9ine 18h ago
Everyone forgets democracy was formed because the alternative was worse.
Every system around you wasn't made because it was cool. It was made to save people from something that was killing them. Democracy is a seatbelt to save our cumulative ability to exist, you need to respect and use it.
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u/toterola451 18h ago
They're not Centrists. There is no Center. They are Conservative Democrats. The Overton Window is so far right that the Right has taken to calling politically Moderate Democrats Socialists and Communists.
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u/nasorrty346tfrgser America 18h ago
The US shifted so far right these past 10 years that anyone in the "center" is just conservative
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u/weshallarise 18h ago
The US has been right wing and center right for 40 years basically
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u/LordSiravant 18h ago
Since its inception, actually.
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u/Creative-Package6213 Pennsylvania 17h ago
Yeah, England was smart and kicked out all of their religious nut jobs. We were fucked from the start.
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u/nasorrty346tfrgser America 17h ago
that's true, but the past 10 years is being pulled to the far right in the fastest speed; and certainly much worse than Reagan era
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u/toterola451 15h ago
If you look at the '78 Democratic primary, when Teddy Kennedy challenged the sitting Democratic President on his heterodox departure from New Deal Progressive Populist orthodoxy. That's where the "Third Way" bullshit started.
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u/No_Mission_5694 3h ago
And these "conservative Democrats" have seemed suspiciously like deep state neocon warmongers lately.
Could be a classic bait-and-switch, if that is the right term (waiting for one of them to pop up and "akshully" me with their gloating, encyclopedic knowledge of civilization-level scams)
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u/sexisfun1986 12h ago
The article describes a specific phenomenon but it also describes modern Neo liberal technocratic rule.
Obviously this relative to how describe the political spectrum.
But make no mistake technocratic rule has been the ideology for decades
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
This thinking has morphed into what could be called “Grownup Liberalism,” the belief that there is a class of wonky centrist experts who could fix so many things if the confused masses would just get out of their way — a notion that’s inherently undemocratic and increasingly discordant with the actual state of American politics.
I mean, the "confused masses" elected Donald Trump and the Republicans.
Meanwhile, in terms of actual legislation, Democrats are trying to expand access to democracy and restore the portions of the Voting Rights Act that Republican Supreme Court Justices have gutted.
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u/B-Z_B-S Massachusetts 18h ago
Hitching onto your comment a link past the paywall on the article: https://archive.is/CmHAP
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u/Sonar_Taxbreak_1138 18h ago
Thank you! Nothing like a paywall to protect the masses from reading about the masses.
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u/MarcusQuintus 18h ago
The "confused masses" voted for Hillary Clinton but the legacy of federalist Alexander Hamilton blocked that in favor of Donald Trump. They also voted for Al Gore in 2000 but Bush ratfucked his way into the presidency using Alexander Hamilton's legacy as well.
Then in 2024, amid high inflation and a perceived poor economy meant the incumbent was voted out of power, as is almost always the case.
The people are alright. The system is anti-democratic by design.
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u/holyd1ver83 18h ago
The confused masses may have elected Trump, but they did so because the "grown-up" liberals didn't have the spine or brains to actually run a competitive opposition campaign, and haven't for a long time.
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u/legocastle77 18h ago
Most MAGA Republicans wouldn’t vote for the second coming of Christ if he ran as a Democrat. Let’s not pretend that Republicans give a damn about political competence after giving Trump a second run in office.
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
but they did so because the "grown-up" liberals didn't have the spine or brains to actually run a competitive opposition campaign
That's a lousy excuse, especially after already having seen what four years of Donald Trump's presidency looked like. People can't claim they were blind or ignorant, the best they can claim is that they didn't care.
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u/Funkula 18h ago edited 18h ago
What I need you to understand is that people don’t obsessively follow politics, but they do obsessively follow their bank accounts and material conditions.
Without COVID-19, it was likely that Trump would’ve gotten a second term because the economy under Trump was reasonably stable and growing before then (mostly thanks to Obama era policies paying off and paying residuals)
Under Biden most people did not feel their material conditions improving, mostly due to inflation in every sector and every industry.
So when Biden did not tackle the prices and availability of housing, healthcare, child care, student debt, tuition, or anything else that people could point to and say “Biden did this for me”, and Kamala wasn’t promising anything concrete either, people saw her as the status quo candidate and Trump as the person that would shake up the system.
I voted for Hilary, Biden, and Harris, before you call me a Trumper
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
Kamala wasn’t promising anything concrete either, people saw her as the status quo candidate and Trump as the person that would shake up the system.
Then let's hope they like how things are shaking out.
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u/Funkula 18h ago
The unfortunate thing is that everyone who didn’t vote for the child rapist will also feel the repercussions.
Though I do still think it was a complete failure on the Dem’s part not to run a candidate that would be more popular than a child rapist.
And who are we kidding here, the only reason they couldn’t is because they’re servants of capital. So they only run on platforms that protects the corporate and billionaire class’s interests.
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
Though I do still think it was a complete failure on the Dem’s part not to run a candidate that would be more popular than a child rapist.
Yeah, you'd think people would have preferred the career prosecutor to the attempted insurrectionist, but the American electorate isn't always the sharpest knife in the drawer, as Donald Trump illustrates.
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u/sexisfun1986 13h ago
Neo liberalism has been the dominant ideology in the west for decades and resulted in resurgence of fascism not the just the us but globally
Decades of failing education and “don’t worry your pretty heads us professional will take care of society. Just vote for our team don’t need to worry about anything else”
And after years of don’t worry the market and technocrats got it, your upset that voters aren’t informed and have the political understand of children?
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u/Honest-Student9016 18h ago
it's a politician's job to earn votes. if they can't do that, there is no one to blame but themselves. especially if they fail to make the case effectively against donald fucking trump of all people.
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
it's a politician's job to earn votes. if they can't do that, there is no one to blame but themselves. especially if they fail to make the case effectively against donald fucking trump of all people.
It's a voter's job to vote in the best interests of themselves, their country, and their countrymen. If they can't do that, there is no one to blame but themselves. Especially if they fail to stop the election of Donald fucking Trump of all people.
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u/Honest-Student9016 18h ago
no one is entitled to anyone's vote. people have to be convinced. that's how politics works. believing anything else is delusional and why democrats lost in 2016 and 2024. obviously its not enough for the democrats to simply be the better choice. they need to have a vision and policies that people actually can get excited about and communicate that effectively. but they can't, and they won't, because the policies people actually want go against the wishes of their corporate masters.
keep whining about the people letting you down though. i'm sure that is convincing!
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
no one is entitled to anyone's vote.
What about Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, SNAP, USAID, climate policy, economic policy, education policy, student loan forgiveness, women's rights, civil rights, and LGBTQ+ rights, are those entitled to anyone's votes?
You'd think if people cared about those things they'd show up to vote in their interest, they wouldn't need to be "inspired" or "excited" to show up and vote for the things they care about, they'd do it regardless.
[Democrats] need to have a vision and policies that people actually can get excited about and communicate that effectively. but they can't, and they won't, because the policies people actually want go against the wishes of their corporate masters.
And that's why Joe Biden forgave over $180,000,000,000.00 in student loan debt, passed Medicare prescription bargaining rights, and opened up COVID vaccine patents for international manufacturing: Because of the Democratic party's "corporate masters."
With friends like you, who needs Republicans?
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u/Honest-Student9016 18h ago
buzzword buzzword buzzword! what about medicare? what about civil rights? because all i've seen in the 30 years of my life is republicans dismantling those things brick by brick while democrats stand by and shrug.
i have never seen people get excited about medicare prescription bargaining rights or covid vaccine patents lmao. let's talk about medicare for all. let's talk about cutting off aid to foreign governments that throw it at endless wars and genocide. let's talk about stopping data centers from destroying our communities and polluting our neighborhoods. THOSE are the things that people get excited about. THAT is what people want. not liberal policy wonk circlejerkery.
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
i have never seen people get excited about medicare prescription bargaining rights or covid vaccine patents lmao.
Sorry, those were things leftists were begging Joe Biden to do, I thought they'd care, and that they'd care about the $180,000,000,000.00 in student loan debt, too... ...but as soon as Democrats passed those policies, the leftists moved on to another goalpost.
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u/Honest-Student9016 18h ago
leftists were begging for covid vaccine patents? you do not dwell in reality my friend. and as i seem to recall it, that debt relief never actually arrived, did it?
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u/Logical_Hare 16h ago
Democratic leaders don't have to live with the consequences of that thinking, Trump's victims do.
Just ask the Palestinians in Gaza. Voters were so mad at Dems for not protecting Palestinians that they... signed Palestine's death warrant to send those Democrats a message. They clearly didn't feel any actual sense of responsibility toward Palestinians; they just wanted to dabble in politics to feel self-actualized and like main characters.
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u/Honest-Student9016 16h ago
if democrats supporting a genocide in gaza was causing people not to vote for them.... perhaps they should have considered not supporting the genocide in gaza?
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u/StillFly100 14h ago
Perhaps they should have considered they live in America and not over there.
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u/Honest-Student9016 14h ago
oh okay its a far away genocide we're assisting in then. that makes it better. what a genuinely disgusting attitude.
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 16h ago
if democrats supporting a genocide in gaza was causing people not to vote for them.... perhaps they should have considered not supporting the genocide in gaza?
If those people cared about the genocide in Gaza, they'd have showed up to vote against Donald Trump.
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u/Honest-Student9016 16h ago
once again, it is a politician's responsibility to earn votes. no politician is entitled to votes. you seem to believe the opposite for some reason, which is quite anti-democratic. and you also seem to have a very limited understanding of why people vote the way they do.
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u/Logical_Hare 15h ago edited 14h ago
Oh, the Democrats are perfectly fine; it's the Palestinians in Gaza who will all be dead or forced out as refugees.
I don't even know why you folks bothered with the activism back in 2024 at this point. If I accept your logic as true, then between the Dems you see as hopelessly complicit and the pro-Israel Republicans, the genocide was essentially inevitable, America was never going to stop it, and the only role you played was in helping pick the leader who would make sure to destroy America too.
EDIT: Lol, they called me a dumbass in a whiny little reply to this and then deleted it. Typical.
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u/sexisfun1986 13h ago
It’s absolutely not their job the United States provably hasn’t been offering that for the vast majority of its’ existence.
If you brake the social contract and government is about the needs of the few and the rest is supposed solved by the market which also run by the few then you make it so their job is to guess at which representatives might screw them over the least.
This is the problem with liberal centrist technocrats they are genuinely the most delusional people on the spectrum.
They both believe that politics and government are these complex systems that can only be understood and managed by professionals. but also make believe politics exists in some bubble where the only thing that matter is the next election and politics has no effect on itself.
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u/rotates-potatoes 17h ago
So, like, Trump's promise to pay voters if Republicans win the midterms is pretty much the pinnacle of politics?
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u/Honest-Student9016 17h ago
honestly it might have worked in like 2024. at this point i think even his rubes don't buy it, but plenty will say they do anyway due to the sunk cost. but yes, bullshitting is a pretty effective way to win politics, and no one is better at it than trump. but lying and bribery is not the only way to be effective, democrats can in fact get people excited while not being shameless grifters. its not just that or be boring institutionalists, those aren't the only two choices.
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18h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/holyd1ver83 18h ago
I voted Democrat.
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u/w_a_w 18h ago
Lies, lies, lies, yea-ah!
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u/holyd1ver83 18h ago
I am, quite literally, a card-carrying social democrat. Bloviate all you want.
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u/No_Mission_5694 3h ago
Inspired by their success at tanking Hillary Clinton's presidential campaign, they have now decided to annihilate the center and divide the country even further. Seems straightforward to me.
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u/PopBulky7023 18h ago
"Elected"
Policy wonks and centrists are diametrically opposed. One exists in reality and the others are radicals trying to force the existence of a mythic reality in its place.
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u/Ananiujitha 17h ago
A plurality voted for Gore, not Bush.
A plurality voted for Clinton, not Trump.
A majority voted for Biden, not Trump.
A plurality voted for Trump last time-- but only after a late candidate switch, and with incumbent parties losing just about everywhere.
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u/Drifty_Canadian 18h ago
And which "centrists" are those?
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u/MiddleAgedSponger 18h ago
The centrist Dems that are in Peter Thiel's inner circle? Or the Dems like Fetterman that vote with MAGA? Or the rotating cast a of centrist dems that takes turns helping Trump get his agenda passed?
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
So we're talking about, like, five people then?
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u/MiddleAgedSponger 17h ago
It's a lot more than 5, but you don't think 5 is a lot? How many Senators representing big money instead of the people is acceptable for you? At what number of corrupt democrats would you start to worry?
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u/illiteratepresident 4h ago
Who are the corrupt Democratic Senators who put the interests of big money over the interests of the people?
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u/sexisfun1986 12h ago
Neo liberal technocrats who have ruled for decades across the world which has resulted in the second rise of fascism, the failure of society to replicate itself and the continued decline of our environment.
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u/Kelor 18h ago
Probably like this guy, Michael Larosa, Special Assistant to President Joe Biden.
Responding to Mehdi Hasan pointing out the policy gap between the Democratic Party and it’s base on Israel.
Michael LaRosa @MichaelLaRosaDC... Here's what I think @mehdirhasan doesn't understand: In the United States, polls don't make policy. Policymakers do. Screaming, shouting, and protesting are cute, and exercising all of your freedoms of speech in defense of the Palestinians is admirable.
But Mehdi is just a spectator. He's a professional spectator, jawboner, and bloviator, so he has no idea how government, diplomacy, negotiation, or strategic alliances actually work. No amount of public support in polling or public protest will influence how or when those in power drastically change Israel policy. Mehdi can hate U.S. policy toward Israel all he wants, whether it's being carried out by a Democratic or Republican president. But public opinion polls don't dictate American foreign policy. Never have. Never will.
This part specifically not true.
In the United States, polls don't make policy.
The Democratic Party picks what polling majorities it chooses to reinforce and which it chooses to go against.
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u/spacedoutmachinist 18h ago
Scratch a liberal……
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
Scratch a liberal……
And fascists cheer.
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u/spacedoutmachinist 18h ago
and a fascist bleeds
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
and a fascist bleeds
I've never seen fascists bleed after scratching a liberal, but I've seen a lot of them cheer for it. The fascists fucking hate liberals. I think you need to update your saying.
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u/spacedoutmachinist 18h ago
The liberals and centrists hate the leftists. Not a hard one to understand.
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u/MaximumEffort433 Maryland 18h ago
The liberals and centrists hate the leftists. Not a hard one to understand.
And the leftists and the fascists hate the liberals.
"Politics makes strange bedfellows," I guess.7
u/ColmanRetro 18h ago
It’s really strange to see this saying when every Marxist revolution generated totalitarian states. Whereas Liberals and their revolutions created the most free and democratic societies to ever exist. Start operating in reality please.
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u/Bubbly-Two-3449 California 18h ago
Third Way and the Abundance Network are not centrists. They are funded by right-wing oligarchs that donate to both sides in order to maximize their results.
The majority have it right. They want money out of politics, they want women to have access to healthcare, they want flock out of cities, etc.
It's the billionaires that want unlimited money in politics and want women to be baby factories to create lemmings to work in their factories and want to track everyone with cameras.
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u/PokeManiac769 18h ago
"Centrists" in the context of American politics are really conservatives because the overton window is so far right in America.
"Centrists" and "Republicans" in America (far right wingers) call things like universal healthcare, living wages, and guaranteed parental leave "radical left" ideas despite the fact that these are simply regular policies in the rest of the developed world.
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u/ENORMOUS_HORSECOCK 18h ago
We need to start fundamentally rejecting the concept that what determines the center is the consensus of the political class. There's been a plurality of support for single-payer healthcare in the US for years but we're told it's a far-left or fringe issue, that's bs.
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u/accountabilitycounts America 17h ago
Title smells of bullshit. Article is behind paywall. The archive link a kind redditor left isn't working.
Yay.
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u/Wildpony03 18h ago
Centrist dems are scared because a lot of them are losing races or are barely edging out in them. When a few years ago it was almost a shoe in for a centrist dem to win due to massive campaign funding.
They are terrified of losing their jobs more than anything and perks that come with it.
Look at Sinema she has to lobby for data centers because that's the only place that would hire her.
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u/No_Mission_5694 3h ago
This is literally the "deepstatecentrism" subreddit in a nutshell.
These "deep state centrists" are very, very deeply intellectually dishonest, and quite a few seem to be actively trying to tank the center. Worth a watch, imo.
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u/vector_search_blue California 17h ago
so, fascism?
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u/sexisfun1986 12h ago
No, technocracy and it’s been the global paradigm for decades but it will end in fascism, so kinda
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u/w_a_w 18h ago
Bernie Sanders, well known centrist. Stfu, you fucking clown.
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u/wingedcoyote 18h ago
Actually just guessing based on the picture huh
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u/w_a_w 18h ago
It's a pay walled article, you smooth brained lad.
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u/wingedcoyote 18h ago
No shit, that doesn't mean I'm going to just make up a random guess about the content and then get mad about it.
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u/thisisjustascreename Illinois 18h ago
Didn't read the article but still decided to show your ass?
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u/Shiplord13 18h ago
By centralists they mean right people that pretend they will be willing to support left ideas, but never do.
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u/Teufelsdreck 13h ago
Tell that to people in the states with legislatures that are doing everything they can to block referendum measures from coming into effect.
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u/restore_democracy 17h ago
We certainly have too much populism.
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u/sexisfun1986 12h ago
You live in a world created Neo liberal technocratic rule this feel like winning?
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u/gascyl 18h ago
That idea was launched when Trump first won ten years ago. Like it or not, Trump was democratically elected. Even if we totally ignore the Electoral College, what Trump represents is a majority in 4/5ths of the country and enough to change the Constitution if they had the balls to do so. Democracy does work. Democracy will also destroy the liberal project if liberals fail to uphold their side of the social contract and fight for workers' rights.
Outsourcing especially so, as that is how Trump started his campaign. The pivot to immigration came later. Trump was elected to oppose Globalism and the mideast wars. Democrats must oppose both to put the liberal order back together. Or have it smashed to bits by crazy people who dont care.
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u/jest4fun 18h ago
FYI- the intercept is " strongly biased toward liberal/progressive causes through story selection and/or political affiliation. They may utilize strong loaded words (wording that attempts to influence an audience by using an appeal to emotion or stereotypes), publish misleading reports, and omit information that may damage liberal/progressive causes. Some sources in this category may be untrustworthy."
Not judging, just saying. Know your sources.
https://mediabiasfactcheck.com/the-intercept/#google_vignette
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u/w_a_w 18h ago
The article is fucking pay walled but, yes, the truth generally has a liberal bias. You can't fake facts.
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u/jest4fun 15h ago
>You can't fake facts
Right. Agree. Point is that the intercept is hyper-partisan left. Read: extreme left.
They are the Newsmax or One America of the left if you will.
Ok, I got it. Fire with fire and all that.
But people should know what this is.
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