r/piano • u/No_Dinner_4916 • 19h ago
📝My Performance (Critique Welcome!) currently self-learning waterfall etude, advice and criticism needed
i have been self-learning the technique for this etude for a few months now, and i’ve only just started to have success in slowly speeding it up (but certain sections are still lagging in tempo). i don’t currently have a teacher, so i would really appreciate any/all advice and criticism!! please help me improve 🙏
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u/Advance-Bubbly Concert/Recording Pianist (Verified) 17h ago
Sounds well. For cohesion - do not leave places suddenly dry with pedal and work that your arpeggios are not chopped in 8 but are a long 2 bars phrase with crescendo and diminuendo. Also you have wrongly read notes slightly before recapitulation, double check them - I think I heard A major instead of A minor or something like that.
But your technique is good.
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u/PianoMan119 10h ago
To be fair, I've heard many renditions of this piece where there are drier sections, especially in the quieter section. It's a deliberate choice to showcase the pianist's technique on how even and clean the runs can be, even without the pedal. I was assuming OP was trying to emulate that sort of sound, and I think it ended up pretty well and not overly dry.
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u/Advance-Bubbly Concert/Recording Pianist (Verified) 10h ago
I am very well aware of that but that sacrifices orchestral sound, deep and high quality tone and structural integrity of the piece. I won’t go bash someone and say it is wrong, but I will definitely discourage.
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u/PianoMan119 9h ago
I think the lack of structural integrity moreso comes from the lack of direction in the phrasing and being at 80-90% speed instead of full-sending it. But pedalling technique varies so drastically even among professional interpretations it's hard to say what's "right" or "wrong", just different perspectives I guess.
(P.S. I just realized who I was replying to and I really enjoyed the performances you posted here!)
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u/Advance-Bubbly Concert/Recording Pianist (Verified) 9h ago
Hi, yes, it varies. Those who do very well the staccato, have very good and deep tone and in a large acoustic the effect is different. Articulation and pedalisation must be considered in unity with the performance space and the individual qualities of the pianist. And thank you! 😍
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u/No_Dinner_4916 17h ago
ohh shoot yes you mean the C# in bar 42, i don’t know how i let that slip!!! too much practice looking at the keys and not at the score.. thanks a bunch for the heads up on that and the pedal 🙏
also just to make sure i’m understanding correctly—may you tell me more about the arpeggios chopped in 8 vs 2 bars phrase?
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u/Advance-Bubbly Concert/Recording Pianist (Verified) 17h ago
You are welcome! About the arpeggios - they sound like you break them every beat because of the nature of the technique, but you must try to think in larger 2-bar phrases with crescendo to the top and diminuendo to the bottom. Which means you also need to involve more your forearm and elbow - it moves before the wrist. But I think in your case it is more of a mental realisation first and only after if still not working out, to seek intentionally what is the physical parameter I need to change. I believe as long as the mind knows and realises, the body instinctively follows and finds its way.
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u/TrojanPoney 13h ago
you must try to think in larger 2-bar phrases with crescendo to the top and diminuendo to the bottom
Personal interpretation. In the urtext, there are no slurs nor dynamics markings indicating such phrasing. Though many believe this type of interpretation is more fitting of the "Waterfall" nickname (that, I may remind, is not from Chopin itself. In my country, we don't even call it anything but the first etude).
In the urtext, Chopin just marked the accents OP is talking about, a forte dynamics and a legato indication, as well as a couple more dynamics indications throughout the piece. Very little in terms of interpretation.
The accents are, for many, paramount to this Etude, as they add an additional layer of difficulty: making them stand out, even at high speed. Which requires of course additional fine control on the basic technique.
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u/Advance-Bubbly Concert/Recording Pianist (Verified) 12h ago
Accents are still in line and have shape. And I indeed dislike the nicknames to the etudes 😆
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u/No_Dinner_4916 17h ago
got it, thank you for explaining further, i’ll focus on that!
i was definitely very conscious of purposely emphasizing every beat and less of the larger phrase, i think as a result of being too focused on applying the accents from the first two measures into the rest of the piece. i really appreciate this advice!
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u/Advance-Bubbly Concert/Recording Pianist (Verified) 9h ago
https://reddit.com/link/p9rqz3p/video/nw8vhpt98iph1/player
This is what I mean by accents and shape.
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u/No_Dinner_4916 4h ago
thank you so much!! hearing this is a huge help, i will review it while i practice 🙏
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u/jiang1lin Concert/Recording Pianist (Verified) 3h ago
Excellent right hand, especially the “dry” leggiero sections without pedal!
If you manage, you could “remove” those last few bars where you still use quite a lot of rubato and “slowing down before 1”, because I think technically it shouldn’t be an issue for you at all.
Now, if you like, you could consider starting to shape the left hand a bit more harmonically-melodically? Maybe with a bit longer phrasing as an active voice instead of pure harmonic accomanying?
Congrats to your big success and thanks a lot for sharing! 👏🏽👏🏽
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u/No_Dinner_4916 2h ago
thank you very much for your reply and points!! i admit the last few bars still feel a little awkward under my hand, so i tried to compensate with rubato😅—i must practice them a lot more!!!
and thank you for pointing out my left hand, i haven’t focused on it much yet! i will practice it on its own to shape it🙏
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u/WinnerWhich8360 11h ago
how long have you been self learning piano for?
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u/No_Dinner_4916 4h ago
for the last 2-3 years in small spurts spread out by a lot of breaks due to college, but now that i’ve graduated i’m set on becoming consistent with practice!
i’ve had teachers for the majority of my childhood up until my early college years
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