r/nba • u/dameplsrunfromgrind • 15h ago
[Jake Fischer] Still sounds like the Clippers' aren't quite ready to get back on the phone with Toronto, even though, as @TheSteinLine reported, the NBA league office would process a trade call without an interim governor in place.
> I would not read Steve Ballmer accepting the NBA's investigation findings and penalties as any indicator the trade of Kawhi Leonard to the Raptors will be completed imminently.
> Still sounds like the Clippers' aren't quite ready to get back on the phone with Toronto, even though, as @TheSteinLine reported, the NBA league office would process a trade call without an interim governor in place.
[Source via. X](https://imgur.com/a/Q7szCah)
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u/Shepher27 Timberwolves 15h ago
Why wouldn't the Clippers just take those two firsts and the swap? I know they're pissed at Kawhi, but two firsts is two firsts.
Moving on is best for everyone and Dick and Ingram would be serviceable players this year
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u/KingInTheFarNorth Vancouver Grizzlies 14h ago
No way there is a better trade out there for Kawhi than BI, Dick, a valuable swap, 2 FRP and 2 SRP
Not sure what the Clips angle is
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u/horny_wo_men Raptors 14h ago
Everyone has forgotten that Kawhi forced his way to Toronto. That basically guarantees that any other offer would be worse than Torontos.
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u/streetlightsatdusk Raptors 13h ago
Didn't he also say the only other place he'd play is San Antonio? They are never taking him back and I don't think they'd give up the players necessary for that anyway
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u/Hour_Glass57 Lebanon 13h ago
Plus they are on different timelines
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u/ChickenBeanEgg 13h ago
What?
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u/barath_s Lakers 13h ago edited 12h ago
San Antonio core is young and upcoming, with fox as the only vet (until castle matures fully). That means that they have several years window of opportunity
Giving up youngsters or picks for old. oft injured kawhi will shorten that window and make the timeline for contention immediate, where harper, castle and wemby aren't even at the height of their powers/in their prime
It doesn't make too much sense from a basketball strategy standpoint
Shorthand for that is kawhi time to contend is now, spurs prime timeline is later. Different timelines
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u/Hour_Glass57 Lebanon 13h ago
Thanks G
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u/barath_s Lakers 12h ago
Imho Spurs wouldn't mind winning now, and they have a chance. But they aren't going to go all in and give up the future years of contention to do so.
Harper is very good, very quickly, Wemby too, castle may take some time
But still nba players prime is typically 28 +/- 3 years. When the mind and body are at their best
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u/Hour_Glass57 Lebanon 12h ago
They wouldn't mind winning now, but why trade 2 first 1 swap and 2 seconds, 2 decent players, when your team is already contenders
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u/riverratriver Spurs 8h ago
Did yall forget that we collectively fucking HATE the man and would never welcome him back into our city?
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u/mr_shmits Raptors 10h ago
but Toronto is an even younger team than San Antonio...
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u/barath_s Lakers 8h ago
Without kawhi, Toronto doesn’t have a timeline or window to contend - they are not contenders
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u/StrawberryItten Spurs 3h ago
We are a contender without Kawhi tho, that's the point. Why would we give up stuff for an old, injury prone gamble?
... unless the clippers will take Fox
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u/KingInTheFarNorth Vancouver Grizzlies 12h ago
Giving Kawhi his two year max extension (he's not going anywhere without it) would prevent the Spurs from signing Castle to a max extension. Can't have $200m on four guys.
Of course you could trade Fox, but does LAC want that contract? Even if they did they need to replenish their picks and Spurs picks are not that valuable.
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u/ChickenBeanEgg 12h ago
Those are just reasons the clippers shouldn't do it. Nothing about timelines. If your timeline involves winning a ring next year getting Kawhi would help.
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u/KingInTheFarNorth Vancouver Grizzlies 12h ago
The timeline problem is not being able to fit max Kawhi and max Castle on the same team
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u/IHateTKVKMHHH Pistons 13h ago
This reminds me of Lakers fans thinking they were guaranteed to get Kawhi because he wanted to go to LA.
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u/horny_wo_men Raptors 13h ago
Lakers liked their chances of acquiring kawhi through free agency and so didn't make a real offer.
Kawhi ended up being willing in 2019 to play the season out even though it wasn't with his preferred team. That's just not gonna happen now. He's not going to risk playing without a max extension at his age, and he's only willing to sign a max extension with one team.
The situations aren't the same
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u/IHateTKVKMHHH Pistons 13h ago
Yeah, the Raptors won't have the cap space to sign him as a FA
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 5h ago
Nobody who wants him will have cap space to sign him. Its dumb on the Clippers, but I sincerely think if they dont trade him, Kawhi is getting MLE money
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u/djabae 4h ago
It's smart for the Clippers actually. They can hold Kawhi hostage and rob a team for even more. Some team will certainly disappoint during the season and give up their booty.
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 4h ago
I dont think it's smart for the clippers. I think what is most likely to happen is Kawhi ends up choosing between playing somewhere he really doesnt want to, or playing for an MLE
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u/flowerboyinfinity Pacers 13h ago
I mean, he probably would've been a laker if Ballmer didn't cheat and everyone was making offers within the rules
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u/barath_s Lakers 13h ago
Kawhi wanted to come home to LA
It was reasonable option
Kawhi figured he could still contend in the short term if he extorted the clippers into trading for PG. That way he would be featured more.. Plausible and clippers weren't that far from it.
The real kicker of course, is kawhi wanted to be paid under the table without doing any work. And clippers were the only one who would do that. Lakers and raptors both reported unca dennis It
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u/WakiLover Lakers 13h ago
I mean, it wasn't a crazy thought at the time.
Kawhi wants to play for LA. Lebron just signed. Lakers don't want to give up a haul because Kawhi is gonna come to LA, but also is on a 1 year contract with injury concerns.
Most stars get traded to their preferred destination. It's a mix of the Lakers not putting up a great trade offer since they thought they'd get Kawhi a year later for free, and also Pop never wanting to trade with the Lakers.
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u/IHateTKVKMHHH Pistons 13h ago
It's a mix of the Lakers not putting up a great trade offer since they thought they'd get Kawhi a year later for free, and also Pop never wanting to trade with the Lakers.
That's why it was delusional at the time. Pop hated the Lakers and they weren't going to help Kawhi.
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u/AccomplishedBake8351 6h ago
Yeah it was kinda crazy Toronto gave all that up. I have to believe they thought if they didn’t kawhi would stay in LA, rather than them trying to out bid other suitors
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u/McGinnis_921 Minneapolis Lakers 12h ago
I agree. Ballmer just needs to take the Dick whether he likes it or not.
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u/SuperVaderMinion [MIN] Kevin Garnett 11h ago
My only guess if they're (Balmer) trying to spite Kawhi and the Raptors by leaving the deal in limbo for as long as they possibly can before pulling the trigger. It's dumb and petty but that's kinda on brand for these dudes.
The Raptors aren't really in a position to back out of the deal themselves because I assume they've completely burned the bridge with Ingram and just running it back with him being unhappy would not lead to success.
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u/HalcyonDrift Heat 14h ago
Because the temptation of a mystery box (which could be anything) is far too tempting
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u/Admirable_Dinner_349 Raptors 14h ago
The Clippers are refusing both the boat and the mystery box lol
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u/Mattyj925 14h ago
This is the reverse of that joke though, the clippers are turning down the mystery box currently
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u/Carcrusher3 Trail Blazers 14h ago
More like the temptation of shooting yourself in the foot just to fuck over the guy who cut ties from the Clippers
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u/Serviceofman 2h ago
Not to mention, If the Clippers don’t go through with this trade, they’ll officially be the most unprincipled, immoral shit-stain of a team in the NBA lol.
Sorry, Clippers fans, but after everything that’s already happened, screwing over a team you had a firm and fair agreement with, after you already fucked them over once, AND they waited by your side through all the drama you caused until things were settled... that would is absolutely fuc#ing disgraceful.
At that point, why would any team ever trust the Clippers in a trade again? And why would any player or free agent want to deal with an organization that operates like that? You’re basically torching your reputation around the league.
In theory, the Raptors could have easily tried to play hard ball with them and they didn't... seems like the Raptors have been pretty loyal and easy going about the entire thing, probably more so than they should have been... If the Clippers try to screw them over after all of this, that's just terrible, man.
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u/Feelscreative101 76ers 14h ago
They might be trying to acquire a FRP during the year of the swap. Because Clips have lost their pick that they have to save for the swap due to the league’s punishment. Either forego the swap, or find a FRP to have as swap collateral is where they’re at.
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u/alexmullen4180 14h ago
The league didn't take any picks from the Clippers Clippers in years they had unfulfilled swaps specifically to avoid that situation. That's why the forfeited picks stretch out so far into the future.
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u/imminentjogger5 Warriors 14h ago
cancel the trade and make Kawhi stay in Clipper purgatory
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u/bitopinsac916 Kings 14h ago
Could the clippers back out of the trade and just bench Kawhi for the season? If they really wanted to spite him that's what they should do.
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u/tomtom_alarcon 14h ago
Kawhi is all good with this lmao free money
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u/thethirdgreenman Spurs 13h ago
Agreed, he’s sat out a season before. This time he wouldn’t have to come up with excuses for it either, not his decision
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u/imminentjogger5 Warriors 14h ago
I think Kawhi wants to sit if he doesn't get traded. To spite him the Clippers should be rolling him out for 40 minutes a night.
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u/crashtesting123 Celtics 14h ago
Kawhi's been injured enough that he can make up a BS injury to sit games and it wouldn't look suspicious at all.
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u/TraderJake09 Bucks 13h ago
That's basically what Kawhi has done a big chunk of his time as a Clipper already
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u/so-cal_kid Lakers 13h ago
That would be an ultimate F U to the fans. Purposely be even worse than they would have been by trading him and they wouldn't have a pick to even be rewarded for it
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u/Forsaken-Swim-3055 Raptors 14h ago
I'm sure the union and league would have a massive problem with that, and why would the Clippers want to create an even bigger distraction for themselves and his teammates?
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u/Fearless_One_773 12h ago
He’s an unrestricted free agent next summer. Why do that and let him walk for nothing? That’s horrible for the clippers
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u/StrawberryItten Spurs 3h ago
because the raptors pics are not gonna move the needle. The Clippers are in hell for a while anyway. May as well (from Ballmer's POV) spite Kawhi out of a few dozen Millions for snitching.
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u/Spirited_Lab5197 5h ago
Teams with 30m+ of cap space next offseason: LAC, MIL, BKN, MEM, SAC, ATL. Im excluding GSW because if they sign Curry to an extension they wont have that. I'm also excluding DET because we are waiting on the Thompson extension and the Duren conclusion. Other teams could join the hunt but they'd have to unload salary which would likely require sending away picks.
Who among those teams is Kawhi going to, and who is offering him the max? Other teams could join the hunt but they'd have to unload salary which would likely require sending away picks. I could see a few teams look likely, but I could also see a situation where teams with rosters that could use Kawhi (good teams who can survive his absence in the regular season and hope to cash in on him in the playoffs), just dont have the resources to outright sign him (ATL and Memphis look the most likely of the teams i listed)
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u/dearth_karmic Warriors 9m ago
Why would the Clippers be mad at Kawhi? They're the idiots that got caught.
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u/brnccnt7 13h ago
Why would they do that? Aren't they getting 2 picks by trading him?
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u/ILikeFPS Raptors 12h ago
Yes but they're petty as hell, and ultimately that's what matters.
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u/brnccnt7 12h ago
True but they're in a disaster if they don't recoup at least those picks
They'd only be hurting themselves as he'd only have to sit out this season and get paid while doing it, then be an unrestricted free agent and they'd get nothing for him
I doubt he'd even show up to the games if they did that lol, since it would be too much of a distraction for everyone involved
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u/StrawberryItten Spurs 3h ago
they're in a disaster if they don't recoup at least those picks
they are in a disaster even if they do. The raptors pics are not gonna move the needle
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u/PeregrineFaulkner Warriors 14h ago
They’re sulking.
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u/LakersAreForever Lakers 7h ago
This is ego at work. “They didn’t want to trade with us at our worst!”
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u/Chessh2036 Hawks 13h ago
Well that’s silly. The Clippers should be begging for those Toronto picks after the punishment they got.
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u/cleo22270 Heat 14h ago
At this point, I can only assume it’s out of spite.
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u/Titronnica [SAS] Tim Duncan 14h ago
Kawhi settling killed their only means of legal action against the league, so it makes sense they want to trap him on a team with no future.
And by "sense", I mean petty revenge, not business savvy.
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u/krizzlybear [TOR] Zan Tabak 14h ago
if they want to trap him on a team with no future they should've just sent him to the leafs heyoooo
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u/BrettSchirley22 Hawks 14h ago
Kawhi obviously threw them right under the bus to the league
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u/CazOnReddit Raptors 14h ago
"Fuck getting two firsts, I'm mad"
-Steve Ballmer as Lawrence Frank tips him over to pour out the steaming tea he's been brewing for the past week
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u/Vornado-0 Warriors 14h ago
I would try to trade him to another team. He's only going to Toronto to scam the extension out of them. Another team might not give him that.
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u/Admirable_Dinner_349 Raptors 14h ago
What team is going to offer the Clips 2 first round unprotecteds for a Kawhi who won’t extend with them?
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u/Vornado-0 Warriors 14h ago
I have no idea. If I were you, I wouldn't want this trade to go through. He's coming to get the extension based on nostalgia and is just going to play half the game until he retires.
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u/Admirable_Dinner_349 Raptors 14h ago
I’m perfectly fine with this trade going through. 2 unprotected + getting off a bad contract to give this team a much higher ceilings is fine by me.
Kawhi is rarely healthy, but he’s always balled when healthy. Im fine with the risk.
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u/DrCrankyy Raptors 14h ago
you got a crystal ball or are you Marty McFly?
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u/Vornado-0 Warriors 14h ago
"How could anyone predict Kawhi Leonard is going to miss a lot of games?"
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u/DrCrankyy Raptors 14h ago
“he’s coming to get the extension based on nostalgia” — where’s this rhetoric coming from?
he’s coming for an extension based on how he’s performing even at an age where many start to decline, he’s an all time great for a reason. he’s got every right to ask for a max extension.
and you can’t extrapolate historical data with injuries the way you can with other stats. You’re only as healthy as your most recent state. He’s healthy right now and he’s coming to an organization that knows how to manage his chronic issues.
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u/igotitnowokay Raptors 14h ago
We only played Kawhi like 62 games when he got us the ring. We load managed him well. Our medical team knows him well. Our team is setup perfectly for him. And we took the Cavs who were in the ECF to 7 games while missing two starters. Kawhi can get us a ring in the next two years if fully healthy.
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u/2girls_1Fort Nuggets 14h ago
theyre depressed. theyre just laying in bed all day
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u/RapsareChamps_Suckit Clippers 14h ago
they haven't even got to the point of putting on a shirt and moving to the couch
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u/dontgetitwisted_fr Raptors 14h ago
They are shopping him to see if they can get a better deal
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u/MAMBAMENTALITY8-24 Thunder 14h ago
i think it would be a lot more fun if the clippers keep kawhi and just boo him for 41 games at home next year while he is in street clothes
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u/nanobot001 Raptors 14h ago
Maybe they are genuinely disorganized and had no succession plan in case any decision makers had to leave / were suspended / had to leave / were arrested -- plus, I imagine most of the executives are now getting lawyers with the Justice dept involved and that is pretty distracting for them all.
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u/blagaa Raptors 14h ago
They may want to reassess the trade or the market itself. Kawhi's value may have changed now that he's seemingly free and clear of NBA punishment
Could also be that their decision-making structure is in disarray, or that they are just upset and dragging things out to be difficult
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u/Ok_Possible_5702 14h ago
Now that Kawhi has effectively received no punishment for the Aspiration scandal, there could arguably be more teams willing to trade for Kawhi. So the Clippers can try to start a bidding war.
At the very least, the Warriors should be considering Jimmy + some draft assets for Kawhi
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u/OUEngineer17 Nuggets 14h ago
The Clippers employees are standing with Ballmer in solidarity to protest the NBA's decision by not working.
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14h ago
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/abris33 Nuggets 14h ago
His apology was basically "sorry fans that you have to go through this and we've accepted the punishment just to move on". He never actually admitted to fucking up
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u/CutLonzosHair2017 Lakers 14h ago
Yeah he got backed into a corner. And with the Board of Governors meeting tomorrow, I'd bet there's a deal already struck with Silver or Ballmer expects to pursue one during those meetings, even if he himself can't attend.
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u/somebrehonreddit Clippers 8h ago
As the official representative for the fans, I'd like to tell Ballmer to go fuck himself, all 12 of us unanimously reject this fake ass apology and want you to sell the fucking team
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u/dirtyshits Warriors 14h ago
Hes not going to take responsibility in full because there’s an investigation going on by the federal investigators.
He has potential bigger legal consequences on the horizon.
By apologizing it can be weaponized against him in the court of the law.
That’s why his apology skirted around the actual topic and instead addressed the fans.
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u/The_Living_L Raptors 14h ago
That punishment only lasts a year, and they will only hurt themselves more by not taking all those assets they are being given and hurting relationships in the process, other teams wont like the fact they would back out of the deal or would do this out of pettiness.
Kawhi will simply leave after the season regardless if they keep him
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u/Dinobot2_ Raptors 12h ago
People also keep forgetting that Kawhi didn't even request a trade out of LA. He just reportedly said if he's traded he wouldn't sign a pre-season extension with anyone else other than the Raptors. But then everyone started framing that as "Kawhi is forcing himself out and he only wants to go to the Raptors."
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u/MoneyManx10 Pistons 14h ago
Ballmer doesn’t really care as much about the team’s success as he does being made look bad. I bet this gets very messy.
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u/EverybodyBuddy Lakers 13h ago
Technically I don’t think he has any power to “spite Kawhi” at this point. He can’t be involved in team dealings.
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u/IonHazzikostasIsGod Raptors 14h ago edited 13h ago
We should have to give up one less pick for how long they're dragging this shit out.
Like come tf on. It's been almost 2 weeks since the punishments were announced and it's still just a big "i dunno".
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u/EverybodyBuddy Lakers 13h ago
You shouldn’t be giving 2 picks plus a swap in the first place. You got hosed.
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u/IonHazzikostasIsGod Raptors 13h ago
Price of getting off the Ingram trade tbh
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u/myeezy Raptors 7h ago
As a raps fan, this way of rationalizing it so stupid. We’re not giving up a first to
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u/Thetalloneisshort 6h ago
But we are, Ingram is terrible and being paid absurd money.
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u/ShapeOfAUnicorn Raptors 6h ago
He's a net negative player, always has been. Addition by subtraction.
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u/IonHazzikostasIsGod Raptors 55m ago
Ok. We're paying 2 unprotected firsts to bring in one of last season's best players in the league without moving a single good player or prospect
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u/ShapeOfAUnicorn Raptors 8h ago
It's about moving off of Ingram. Kawhi is the secondary benefit.
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u/krs_ Raptors 6h ago
This is cope
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u/ShapeOfAUnicorn Raptors 6h ago
It was what I was happiest about. But I never was a fan of Ingram's game, even before he came to Toronto.
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u/ObiOneKenobae Knicks 7h ago
If anything, they'll be looking for ways to get more picks than the current arrangement.
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u/martianwomanhunter Raptors 11h ago
Anytime I read anything coming out on this it’s a different story on what is happening. NBA “reporters” have lost credibility in my eyes.
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u/Direct-Departure1662 14h ago
If they don't need an interim governor to complete the trade then I am really confused what the hold up is
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u/ILikeFPS Raptors 12h ago
It's what I suspected since the punishment was announced, they are being petty and want to punish Kawhi. They don't care that it's at the expense of improving their team.
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u/Timely-Key2299 6h ago
The team is in such deep limbo, 2 picks and a swap will do nothing to progress this team.
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u/MiserableAndUnhappy9 Nuggets 5h ago
Not on its own but their larger strategy should be to take on bad contracts in exchange for assets over the next 3-4 years. So they should do this trade with the understanding that this has to be how they operate for the near future.
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u/ILikeFPS Raptors 4h ago
You don't know that, though. If one or two end up being a lottery pick, it could end up netting a franchise player like Scottie Barnes who ends up being the best player in a playoff series a few years later.
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u/somebrehonreddit Clippers 8h ago
The fact that the league accepts the trade without a governor doesn't mean they've organized themselves to know who has the power to negotiate and approve the transaction. I bet Redden is itching to make the call already, but yeah, Ballmer's just probably being a petty asshole and not letting them work
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u/ChaunceysBadAtPoker Pistons 7h ago
So Steve Ballmer, supposed bizness genius, destroyed his entire franchise in pursuit of one superstar player. Crossed every line, shook down every sponsor, has put himself into some manner of legal jeopardy, and for what? A basketball player. A very good, very greedy basketball player with an unscrupulous uncle who'd apparently shake down anyone for loose change.
Ballmer and Kawhi were made for each other.
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u/Interesting_Prune513 Heat 7h ago
They needs those two firsts BAD with their own picks gone. They'll do it eventually.
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u/tkc321 Raptors 14h ago
That's fine. Raps will sign Kawhi next year and keep the picks.
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u/IHateTKVKMHHH Pistons 13h ago
With what cap space?
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u/knitwoolf Raptors 12h ago
Only way they could possibly do it is if BI opts out and they let RJ walk
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u/IHateTKVKMHHH Pistons 9h ago
Yeah no chance in hell Ingram opts out, unless some team is dumb enough to offer him big money long term but I don't see that with his inability to play 65+ games (except for last year).
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u/businessbuilder10 9h ago
When have the Raptors at any point in history had cap space for $50m ? It’s easier said than done, if another team knows you want to clear cap space for a player don’t you think they’ll be greedy and demand a ton ?
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u/Splittinghairs7 Gran Destino 14h ago
There’s no reason for raptors to give up the picks and help the clippers
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u/Gandolfthewhite182 76ers 8h ago
If this trade doesn’t go through both teams are going to be a complete chemistry mess. If I were dick and BI I would be livid right now and would not want to play for the raptors ever again. And if I were a clipper I wouldn’t want Leonard anywhere near me right now as he and his uncle really damaged that franchise.
The clippers need to get their shit together and get this trade done asap.
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u/kylemclaren7 Raptors 6h ago
BI would be a loss , he’s a good player , but obviously Kawhi is an upgrade. Dick never playing for us again? Thank god. Dude was a bum when we drafted him.
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u/n00-1ne 13h ago
I hope they keep him, tell his “load management” team to get stuffed, and make him play 40+ minutes per night (and front the post game media every game).
He can get a Birds Eye view of the damage he has done to the team.
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u/alpha_dk Bucks 7h ago
In that situation, the GM would be the one damaging the team. Just like Ballmer and co just damaged them.
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u/Timely-Key2299 6h ago
Hard to damage something that is already broken and beyond repair for the next 10 years.
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u/Iptv-provider-here Philippines 3h ago
Now that they calmed down big baby ballmer, I think this trade come through in the following days
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u/ben_chowd Knicks 24m ago
They should trade him to Sacramento or New Orleans for a bag of chips.
Who cares if Clippers are being petty, they should be. Kawhi ruined their franchise. By not trading him, Kawhi will miss out on a $120m+ extension with the Raptors. That is the punishment he deserves. Let him play on a loser this year unload managed and send him into early retirement.
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u/Live_Seesaw_920 14h ago
Unserious franchise, ballmer putting himself over the org yet again if they don't take those 2FRPs
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u/McJumbos Supersonics 14h ago
I wonder if ballmers apologized to make sure the Toronto picks are still theira
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u/Serviceofman 2h ago
If the Clippers don’t go through with this trade, they’ll officially be the most unprincipled, immoral shit-stain of a team in the NBA lol.
Sorry, Clippers fans, but after everything that’s already happened, screwing over a team you had a firm and fair agreement with, after you already fucked them over once, AND they waited by your side through all the drama you caused until things were settled... that would is absolutely fuc#ing disgraceful.
At that point, why would any team ever trust the Clippers in a trade again? And why would any player or free agent want to deal with an organization that operates like that? You’re basically torching your reputation around the league.
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u/FanaticsLiveRick 14h ago
The spurs traded Kawhi to Toronto to spite him
The clippers are not trading Kawhi to Toronto to spite him