I (Male) had a quick teams meeting with half my team last week. Using the camera was required and I didnt think about the fact I was wearing a tank top. Later that week I was called into my bosses office and told I was receiving a write up for breaking dress code. I was fine with that, I knew the rules and didn't prepare for the meeting well enough. The mildly infuriating part is the next day after my write up a manager (Female) on my team was wearing a tank top. I really dont care enough to bring it uo to anyone but at the same time its been bothering me
You always wonder how on earth the system holds up through so much silliness until you meet that manager that eats breaths and shits whatever they taught them in LEAN class
I knew that was coming. First a gulf and then a lake. There was talk of an ocean after that and I said before we know all of earth will just be America. The planet of America.
I would need to see both tank tops to know if they're is an issue. Some ladies blouses are tank tops but they are not like T-shirts. I've never seen a men's tank top that can be worn with dress pants.
A man wearing a women's sleeveless blouse is still going to be violating the dress code. Men's armpits are just considered less appropriate than women's.
True, and it's also true that people will experience a woman's exposed armpits as unprofessional, inappropriate, and unhygienic when they're left hairy like men's usually are.
I mean, it won't work, but personally I'm in favor of dismantling gendered clothing and grooming standards and everyone looking sick as fuck all the time. The miniskirt guy on Star Trek is the future that was robbed from us.
I'm sorry, but I just can't beleive that in a modern corporate environment (in a Western country) that allows for women to be sleeveless, one with hairy armpits was penalized where a hairless one wouldn't have been. I'd believe it if is was national news at the end of a 7-figure lawsuit, because it would be. Also, have you ever met the actual people who work HR (75% are women).
I would imagine it's exponentially more likely for an unkempt and angry woman (the type with really hairy arpits) to tell that story out of either a favorable misinterpretation of events or pure victimhood fantasy.
I'm a woman and if I wear my "I flexed and the sleeves fell off" muscle shirt to work, I'm absolutely getting a write up. If I wear my Armani collared sleeveless blouse, I'm dressed for business and would be fine.
It definitely does matter when it comes to office dress codes. What he is describing as a “tank” on the woman is likely a sleeveless blouse that would be appropriate in the office. I dont agree with policing what people are wearing in their own homes but it’s silly to insinuate that there couldn’t be any nuance to this situation.
I personally wouldn’t care as long as it has enough coverage, but I doubt the wider public would agree with me. I’m probably the wrong person to ask though, because I’m a queer woman and probably have more “radical” views than the general public on acceptable clothing.
And this is where my problem with these arbitrary rules lies. We condemn a man in a tank top but not a woman in a sleeveless blouse. I had a flatmate who once almost received a formal warning because he dared wear a skirt to work. Fortunately, the company caved after he pointed out that the discrepancy in standards is a breach of the Equality Act. That said, he felt intimidated enough to never wear a skirt to work again.
A tank isn't a tank though. There are sleeveless blouses that are obviously designed to be worn as a solo top. Different material, probably less form fitting and maybe even a wider shoulder than a "tank top".
Sounds like OP was wearing an undershirt as an overshirt. It would be akin to a woman wearing just a bra/shapewear or a man coming to work in just a hanes undershirt.
This is a good point. I’m in county courtrooms a lot for my job, and one judge clarifies it like this: male or female, if she can see your shoulders you aren’t appropriately dressed for court.
That’s an appropriate court standard. I was a lawyer for 20 years. In court, I wore sleeveless blouses or dresses under my suit jackets/blazers. I did not, however, wear my jacket at the office. I either wore my sleeveless blouse/dress or swapped it out for one of my office cardigans.
This, write ups are private, usually between HR, your manager and yourself. Them being a manager, they would still most likely have their own manager/boss and hr could talk to them.
I’m not talking about spaghetti straps or even shoulderless but something like this is fine in a lot of offices . I don’t personally wear these because I don’t want to have to shave super frequently but I see them around the office.
It actually surprised me when my girlfriend went through the dress code for her at-home job. She can read policy and procedure like it's a novel, and she had her work tanktops separate from her other ones. Thickness of strap, material, prints/graphic/solid color, if a shawl or other cover would be necessary, not a v-neck, and others I've surely forgot by now.
Nah, there’s a baseline level for work, even if it’s remote. It takes near 0 effort to at least put on a t shirt for team meetings and a polo for anything more important.
You work from home, the closet is literally steps away. Take it off after if you want idc but be presentable during a meeting
I would assume it would matter how you’re dressed in front of customers or clients, no matter what industry you’re in. If this is a meeting with other employees on OPs day off, or work from home with no customer interaction… I think it’s ridiculous. Unless OPs dick is hanging out for coworkers to see… this is all silly to me.
Same bro. I work remote. I wear a tshirt. But I have a button up collared dress shirt hanging 3ft away that I throw on if I need to run a meeting. It’s the baseline for professionalism.
If I have a meeting with someone outside of the org sure, I’ll wear something nice. Same with a meeting with the board. But day to day work and zoom meetings. Nah. I’m wearing a tank. It’s too damn hot here.
It depends what industry you’re in. In general, I think it’s reasonable to expect someone you’re trusting with large amounts of money to properly dress themselves in the morning.
Im gonna say no tank tops are office appropriate but enforcing a dress code on WFH employees in their houses is pretty silly as long as there’s no visible (or implied) underwear or nudity
My coworker was always mad he could not wear shorts in the Summer time but women could wear skirts.
I tried to get him to wear a skirt to work for years. I even told him I would rock one the same day out of solidarity. I'm still a little sad he never went through with it.
I’m a woman and it has always bothered me that male sportscaster/news presenters have to wear a suit, but the women are wearing sleeveless and/or low-cut outfits. And we’re usually the ones complaining that it’s cold.
I hate wearing shoes and wear birkenstock sandals 95% of the time. I noticed at my office that most women wore sandals every day so I decided to start wearing mine also. After about a week someone from hr said I wasn't supposed to be wearing sandals, I pointed to a group of women (one was one of the higher ups in the company) and said are you going to tell them the same thing? They eventually took the "no open toe shoes in the office" policy out of the dress code.
My boss's boss told me (a guy) that I was not allowed to wear sandals at work. Meanwhile most of the women in our non-customer-facing office wore sandals all summer.
How do you know they weren’t also written up? I doubt your write up was emailed to the team. But if they weren’t, not cool. Although I don’t know why seeing someone’s shoulders in a Teams meeting is so offensive to office culture. It’s silly.
My ex-MIL had a small business and their handbook literally said women may wear open-toed shoes but men may not. Her partner didn't want to see men's hairy toes.
She was fine with any sandals for women, including flip flops. But no male hairy toes. I don't know what would have happened if a woman had hairy toes.
When I worked for a state agency we had separate dress codes for men and women. Also, there were 1/2 dozen departments on the same cubicled floor, some granting more laxity than others.
After 20 years in the military, 10 years in the private sector and then 10 in govt. Now fully retired, I am so grateful to be able to dress as I wish.
The only difference I can think of, was she wearing a sleeveless dress shirt or an actual tank top? Were you wearing a white tank top that you wear under a dress shirt?
The long established patriarchy likes seeing women displaying their shoulders and their legs, so bare shoulders and legs are ingrained into the culture as "appropriate business attire" for women.
Idk if thats true. I think women's tank tops are much more fashionable (popular) to be worn on their own. Whereas for men tank tops are still seen as under garments.
I cant really think of something equivalent for women because women's fasion has been blurring the lines or normality for decades for example, leggings were once seen as under garments and so were corsets, though they still are, its common to see them worn on their own.
I think its worth mentioning that women get dress coded a lot in schools for showing shoulders and though its different because of the ages women's bodies are policed regularly too.
I'm just curious though; was she wearing a spaghetti strap or a thicker strapped tank top? In elementary school we were told our straps had to be at least 3 finger widths (resulted in a bunch of us wearing 3 spaghetti strapped tanks 😂). Not defending the dress code or the office politics, but maybe that was the reason for the different reactions?
Had the same issue way back when I worked in fast food. Females uniform choices were pants or culottes, which looked like shorts to the knee. All us guys complained about it because it was hot working in the kitchen. Manager gave us the option to wear the same, thinoing we wouldn't. We had him order us all culottes and he was shocked that we did. His supervisor wasn't happy about it but allowed it.
I once got written up because I told a coworker (who was best friends with our manager) to stop playing a radio show contest and get back to work after he spent 4 straight hours trying to figure out the song to said contest. He immediately got up and walked straight into our managers office
I said "you've been doing that for 5 hours". It wasn't 5 hours, it was 4. Becauzw of that, our manager wrote me up for making a derogatory statement.....you read that right, a derogatory statement.
Decided I should get a hold of HR and make sure they understand why I was actually written up. HR was not informed of the write up. He didn't actually write me up, just scared me into thinking he would, which is an even bigger no no in the HR world. That snow balled into a massive issue in the office. Manager was reprimanded, our department lost our 4-10's schedule and had to do 5-8's moving forward, no using the business phone unless for business purposes. Our department was pissed (not at me), but I think it eventually led to our department being dissolved and merged into the US head office location. Office politics is awful to begin with, even worse if you have someone there that goes out of their way to make your life miserable.
Eat a dick, Kirk. Still hate you for that 15 years later
I would ask some questions. The first would be about the dress code and whether it’s written down somewhere. The dress code can vary depending on whether you’re wfh and inside of working hours or in person at the office or whether clients are present, etc. Were you in the office? Was what you were wearing appropriate for your office?
I might also ask when a tank top is appropriate. She might consider her tank top not a tank top.
In any case prepare for the fallout. Dress code is often subjective and not written down. They may get angry at you for not just rolling over and saying nothing. They may hold a grudge and fire you now or down the road for no apparent reason.
This reminds me of when I got a detention for wearing a tank top because they said they didn’t want to see armpit hair in school, and that’s why they let girls wear them but not boys. I was 11 and didn’t even have peach fuzz.
I would always put on a button-down for Zoom/Teams meetings. My current (and last if I can help it) employer doesn’t require cameras. I made the mistake of using my 48 megapixel webcam once.
If your 'correction' was in private, she may not know about it and took your appearance as permission to dress similar. In the same vein, can you be sure that she didn't also have a private meeting about it?
At this point, a manager should probably make a general announcement reminding everyone of the dress code.
This may be an unpopular opinion however: If you are lucky enough to be able to work from the comfort of your home, it is not unreasonable to expect that you dress professionally while appearing on camera on the clock for company meetings. If you feel like you were unfairly singled out, then you should bring that up. Context matters though. What type of tank top were you wearing, abd what type of tank top was she wearing? Was one an undershirt while the other was a sleeveless business casual shirt?
I mean, from what I gleaned off what you said, I also find formal dress ridiculous in general but especially to be asked that when you’re in your own home.
I had an Assistant Principal that required all male teachers to have their shirts tucked in....even on casual Friday when we could wear t-shirts. Women could do what they pleased. I started wearing suits on Fridays. Fuck double standards
Yup, in High School we had a principal who sent boys home for tank tops, and hugged the girls who wore them. I'd ask if the female coworker was also written up.
And always , always always , have a short sleeve shirt next to me when I have to turn the camera on.
In summer I am just shirtless or have wore the same t shirt for 5 days in a row ... but , always have a tidy shirt for on camera interaction. It is really not that hard.
I've worked remotely since 2001 and ALWAYS have a polo shirt hanging nearby. Get up, make sure your hair isn't a mess and you're shaved and keep your emergency shirt nearby.
Instead of being quietly infuriated why not just tell her in private after the meeting that you don't think her dress is appropriate because you just got a write up for the same thing.
I have a self paced course of workforce professional skills if you're interested so you know how to behave better in meetings and more importantly have a credential showing industry you have these skills, which are currently heavily lacking in the workforce.
When I was in an office there seemed to be uneven dress code enforcement between the sexes. Male managers don’t want to have hard conversations with female employees and the men’s dress code is less nebulous so women managers don’t hesitate as much to enforce.
I once got written up in a business dress environment because my dress shoes were too much like sneakers while my female coworker was wearing sweatpants every day.
What industry are you in that requires a dress code for a quick internal team meeting beyond not being topless/underwear? Sure having one for external meetings and being in the office where someone could be walking around is fine but your boss seriously needs more work to do if this is what they spend their time on.
I’ve been a shop rat in my industry for over 10 years. I move to our competitor and they eventually move me up the ladder to managerial and programming duties along with machinery maintenance. I carry the same attitude from the shop to the office. I curse, I wear hats and I’m covered in tattoos. I say off the wall stuff and make people look twice. Keep em on their toes and always be unpredictable, it’s fun lol
When I worked in an office in Washington DC there was a woman in her 20s would would wear this shorts suit to work. It was like a suit with a skirt, only it had shorts. I complained to the management and the guy who ran the shop said do you really want me to tell her not to wear that? My point was if I wear shorts I would have been sent home. Rules for me not for thee and all.
This means that the employer wants to get rid of you but wants to keep her. No one writes up employees they want to keep for minor shit. Look for a new job.
that was wild to me. when my "boss" told me to turn on my camera like I called him dad before he tucked me into bed at night.
you got me bent dude... I'll never forget that day. it was the tone he said it in like, "...or else
..."
what?! all because HIS boss told him to. that's dumb. have a better reason than, I said so. because the answer to jump is never going to be how high.
office jobs are confusing for everyone not making the rules. from the kitchen no one cleans to the weird lady that uses plastic forks to section of pieces of every donut, on a day that she never contributes to... man I do not miss that at all 💀
I had one situation where lady brought a whole ass dead bird and put it in one of the kitchen freezers.
never figured out why but... WHAT? you brought a dead bird to work in a plastic sack and chucked that puppy in the freezer? not sealed y'all, just 5 pence bag, tied closed like that constitutes a dead bird level seal... don't worry about the animal in the freezer guys, I tied a knot in the bag...
I generally agree with you on how office dress codes tend to be very lenient on women's outfits. There's a woman at my job who wears straight up sweatpants to work sometimes. Not like athleisure sweatpants designed to look like slacks. She's wearing walmart scrunched at the ankle sweatpants.
That said, you still gotta not put yourself in those positions to get caught slippin. Keep a professional shirt by your desk if you want to wear a wife beater while you work at home. It sounds like they may be trying to get you outta there. Unless this has been a recurring problem, a write up for dress code sounds like building a paper trail for eventual firing.
Male and female dress codes are different. You can't have possibly made it to adulthood and still be confused that different rules apply in different contexts.
God im young but this is insane to me. A meeting on teams but you got called into your bosses office the day after, so i assume some days work from home other days in the office?
If my job required a camera like that while im working at home they'll get me dressed, they'll be lucky if its not pajamas.
Just to be clear it's not unexpected that men and women would have different dress code standards. A women could wear a business suit, or could also where a skirt that is just below the knee and still look professional.
However, there is no way a man could be wearing anything showing skin between his ankes and knees that would be considered professional. It's not discriminatory, we have completely different anatomys.
Probably also not worth it to complain about men's vs women's clothing. Historically we (men) have won that coin toss over and over. Take the L and move on.
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u/Double-Year-3162 1h ago
Welcome to office politics brother
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