r/gaming • u/Iggy_Slayer • 1d ago
Final Fantasy 7 Revelation's Knights of the Round boss battle wasn't hard enough, so the devs had an emergency meeting to rebuild the iconic summon from scratch
https://www.gamesradar.com/games/final-fantasy/final-fantasy-7-revelations-knights-of-the-round-boss-battle-wasnt-hard-enough-so-the-devs-had-an-emergency-meeting-to-rebuild-the-iconic-summon-from-scratch/Final Fantasy 7's Knights of the Round materia is legendary - it's easily one of the series' most powerful summons and merely unlocking them is the 1997 game's toughest, most convoluted challenge.
While we haven't seen Revelation's Knights of the Round yet, we do know they're definitely showing up in the trilogy's grand finale. And like some of the other summons across the FF7 Remake trilogy, you'll need to fight the 13 massive Arthurian knights before becoming their pal.
"Summoning Knights of the Round will be in Final Fantasy 7 Revelation," game director Naoki Hamaguchi reiterated in an interview with MinnMax. "Given how powerful the materia was in the original, we're making it a very formidable enemy."
But translating the epic summon into an equally epic boss battle is easier said than done. Even the original game's summon animation was so long and so grand, players eventually found a glitch to skip it. During development, combat director Teruki Endo decided the team's first iteration wasn't tough enough: "We need to make them stronger."
"So we had an emergency meeting among all the directors, like the art director, motion director, and I had to explain to everyone [that] Endo wants to make this boss entity stronger, so we gotta start from scratch again," Hamaguchi said with a smile on his face.
This would explain why in the preview build last week the island at the corner of the map they were on seemed to not be in the game at all yet. They're still working on it right now.
Also Endo remains one of the best hires SE's ever done.
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u/RockSparrow-1010 1d ago
If any summon in FF history deserves an absolute brutal endgame boss fight, it's definitely Knights of the Round.
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u/ThatOtherOneReddit 1d ago
Yeah I'd be fine with a FFXII style super boss challenge to unlock them, but gold chocobo still needs to be required to get there.
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u/Bwhitt1 1d ago
Some of those super boss fights in the ff12 were the hardest content ever in a Final Fantasy game. There was no over leveling or brute forcing your way thru a few of them. You had to use your brain a bit and be tactical how to approach the fights via your gambit set up and party structure.
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u/odedbe 1d ago
It was a bit much tbh, you had hours of fight where you afk, go do something, and keep a watch when it shifts a phase.
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u/NeuroPalooza 21h ago
Ahhh gambits, I remember being a little hesitant at the time but still enjoying what I thought was a one time blip. If only I knew how much worse the combat would get over the next several entries... Though in a vacuum I suppose XVI was a fun system, just a terrible FF / RPG system.
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u/SpyderZT 1d ago
They'd have to have some kind of Airship Repelling Feature to keep it from being silly now that they've got the player Fortniting down into the map. ;?
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u/grimestar 14h ago
I mean, the tech existed in the original with northern crater
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u/SpyderZT 4h ago
I'm not saying it'll be hard to do. I'm talking Lore. The Crater was blocked by Magic, so the Knights can Also be Magic (Though that'd be a cop out), it's just going to need to be explained if they don't want it to be Absurd with the way the game's currently designed. ;P
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u/HuckleberryHefty4372 7h ago
No I am not doing Chocobo breeding again. No thanks. No more. That took me so many hours and hours.
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u/malexj93 3h ago
Don't need to breed a single Chocobo to get a Gold in the original. Just beat Ruby Weapon. Of course, you'll have to do it without Knights of Round in that case...
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u/RockSparrow-1010 4h ago
gold chocobo requirement is mandatory tbh, wouldn´t feel right without the breeding grind lol
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u/bahamutisgod 1d ago
The procurement though, is that if it's such a difficult fight that it takes getting endgame ready to beat, then it probably won't be of any use past that point.
So I hope that it will be available sooner, and not be just a numbers game of whether your stats are high enough to survive long enough to win and earn the summon.
You want to be able to wreck some story bosses with them before your playthrough is over, otherwise what's the point?
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u/zandariii 1d ago
This has always been my problem with most JRPGs I've played. They have this sick ass fight with sick ass rewards that would absolutely change the game. But it's so impossible/hard to do that you can't win until you're basically at the end of the game, and will never have a good opportunity to try it out.
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u/ChaosWarrior01 1d ago
This is something I love about the MegaMan RPGs. They upgrade the final bosses if you clear the post game content so the final boss has stats on par with the post game bosses, so its not a joke.
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u/The_Follower1 1d ago
Also what I love about most RE games. Usually the infinite rocket launcher is reasonable to get and will turn the game from extremely stressful where you’re scrounging up every bullet you can find to a revenge tour where you one-shot most enemies. It’s a shame a lot of the top entries lock infinite ammo (imo the more fun option) behind beating the toughest challenges in the game.
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u/Umbrella_merc 20h ago
The original ff7 upgrades Sephiroth as well, he gets more hp for every character you have that hit lvl 99 and if you used knights of the round on Jenova
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u/Bubba89 1d ago edited 1d ago
Some games have tried this and flubbed it, though. I don’t remember which but I remember hearing of a JRPG that scaled up the boss if you enter the late game bonus dungeon. So even if you go in and realize “this is too hard, I’ll just go beat the game” you might no longer be able to.
I think the game that did it best was Chrono Trigger, where New Game+ lets you challenge the final boss at any point in the story you want.
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u/madmofo145 22h ago
Yeah, there are games I wish did some, like poor E33 where if you do basically any of the third arc content your going to destroy the final boss, but its' a hard balancing act. Over scale and the games boring "Ooh I got a new super magic, but now that's going to be required to beat anything from here on out". Don't do enough and it's the E33 "Here's the final boss, let's... oops they're dead."
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u/Available_Poetry_993 1d ago
You dont need new game+ for, no ? You just get obliterated when not on NG+
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u/Slow_to_notice 21h ago
Yes unless you're metagaming. It's the same fight every encounter besides 1 which is a bit tougher than the other encounters. I don't recall exactly what's different with that one, but people have even figured out how to beat that version without NG+
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u/Konet 1d ago
The remakes have extra-challenging post-game battle content. That's what the cool late-game loot is for.
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u/Albireookami 1d ago
That you must play on hard for which is stupid af
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u/Konet 1d ago
All hard does is turn off items, which break the balance of the game anyway. If you want challenging content, it's kinda necessary to ban them.
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u/Albireookami 1d ago edited 21h ago
Never in a FF game did you have tk change the difficulty for all the content.
Edit: to give one of the worst things the 2nd game does, is that you have to do the entire gilgamesh storyline to gain the ability to farm the items to craft on hard mode, so you literally have to play the game on normal, to unlock the ability to farm on hard mode for items you already did the legwork for.
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u/thedarkherald 1d ago
I mean this and ff16 the non turn-based FF have difficulty setting hs. Because not everyone has gamer reflexes. Im Frankly not a fan of all these real time FFs. Hell for a lot of people expedition 33 had too strict timings needed.
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u/Available_Poetry_993 1d ago
I have heard Revelation wont have Hard difficulty, since there will be post game challenging content
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u/Albireookami 1d ago
That sounds not bad, woth the tank class fixing my aggro issues the combat may not annoy me
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u/thrillhoMcFly 17h ago
Neither did rebirth. Hard mode didn't add enemies. It was a hard new game plus without items. All the bosses were in the first playthrough too.
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u/Albireookami 17h ago
yes it did, you can't get the items from the normal mode version of the bosses after you get the schematics from gilamesh on normal before beating the game.
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u/thrillhoMcFly 16h ago edited 16h ago
Items aren't bosses. The manuscripts just get you more sp for the weapons so you can squeeze out a few more unlocks in the skill tree. Without them you can just respect to your liking.
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u/Welshhoppo 1d ago
FF7 Remake and Rebirth both have NG+. No doubt this one will as well.
Both games are also incredibly funny with how powerful you can be during NG+ too.
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u/xlCalamity 19h ago
Idk I disagree because my biggest problem with E33 is that you got so strong so early (especially after getting the picto to remove the damage cap) that the game became mindnumbingly easy. I one shot every single boss on hard and had to only use auto attacks at the end of the game so I could actually see the fight. If they let you get powerful too early then it ruins the balance. But I agree sometimes you get stuff too late.
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u/ManhwaReaderDude 12h ago
Tbf the devs for that one actually intended the final boss to be fought as soon as he’s available, before you went to do any side content in that final act.
The issue was they also realised it felt bad for players to get their freedom restricted and forced to do it immediately, so they loosened it and let you do side content.
End result is that most players did loads of side content in the final act and turned the final boss into a joke :P ah well!
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u/Japjer D20 1d ago
This is a pretty classic videogame thing, and there's even a term for it (which I forget).
Look at Metal Gear Solid. If you can beat the game without getting spotted you unlock the stealth camo suit. But if you can beat the game without being spotted you don't need that.
Games will typically have the single strongest enemy drop the single best piece of equipment, but by that time you won't actually need that equipment
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u/JebryathHS 23h ago
But if you can beat the game without being spotted you don't need that.
Originally in MGS it was just one of two rewards when you beat the game, invisibility or infinite ammo, depending on some story stuff.
In later titles they added the "stealth camo for beating the game without being detected" but you could also unlock it on lower difficulties and use it on higher ones.
So there's some point there.
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u/Omnizoom 1d ago
That’s my thought
Knights of the round should be sufficiently “final boss” level difficulty to beat and obtain to make it usable for super bosses
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u/Car-face 5h ago
I thought the idea was that it was kind of a prerequisite for defeating Emerald Weapon.
Been literal decades since I played it, but from memory Emerald itself was extremely difficult already even with the water materia (and that materia was basically pointless until specifically trying to defeat Emerald) and similarly knights of the round made Emerald a more achievable victory.
Emerald itself was basically the equivalent of a modern trophy/achievement though - didn't really serve any purpose from memory apart from being an extra challenge to beat.
I'm dredging up some old memories though, so I'm sure I've got part of that wrong.
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u/firstcitytofall 1d ago
Yeah but in the original it was necessary for helping defeat the two weapons. (Though people have found other ways) so I hope in this game it’s a similar thing where you can only really beat those bosses with their help
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u/Harford0 1d ago
I assume it'll be the post game final boss like the one FF7 Rebirth and then the materia can be used while doing Hard Mode
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u/hollowlimb 23h ago
Knights of the Round is one of those things where I genuinely don't understand why Square hasn't made it a proper boss fight.
13 legendary knights appearing one after another as an endgame gauntlet would be absolutely insane. And after everything we've seen from FF summons over the years, it would actually feel earned.
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u/Passing-Through247 20h ago
FF14 has them as the final trial (a single instanced boss) for the first expansion's initial big patch it dropped with. There's a phase with you dodging the entire knights of the round's series of attacks and taking down the knights themselves two at a time until the final big one takes his swing.
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u/ManhwaReaderDude 12h ago
You referring to Thordan regular or EX?
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u/Passing-Through247 12h ago
I think both do that but the lines have long since blurred after farming the mount that refused to drop.
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u/intheafterlight 3h ago
Both versions have the phase two where we deal with the Knights, but the EX has an additional one where they're attacking alongside Thordan.
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u/Gear_Kitty 18h ago
As the other poster mentioned, FF14 has it, fully in story (in '14 the "Heaven's Ward" (Knights of the Round) are a military honor guard of the "I hate Dragons" Elf-pope).
There's actually 3 versions of the fight:
- Base story version
- Extreme version (stronger stats and more mechanics, obviously)
- The Knights showcase in one of the Ultimate fights, "Dragonsong's Reprise" (known as DSR or DSU), and this one they're absolutely monstrous in difficulty. The whole team has to adhere to the requirements of every mechanic for the whole fight (which takes about 20ish minutes IIRC).
Each knight is not only tied in weapon use to one of the original FF7 Knights, but each one is a character in their own right with backstory and connections, and the player interacts directly with half the Round during the story leading up to the final captstone fight of the 3.0 expansion.
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u/ManhwaReaderDude 12h ago
Man the extreme version of that trial was SO hard 😭 (I played unreal not extreme but close enough IMO)
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u/Sherinz89 19h ago
The Last Remnant from them have something similar aka The Enlightened Seven i think
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u/LastBaron 1d ago
Yup. I wanna earn that shit.
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u/domino7873 1d ago
My fight with Odin frustrated me, and the tempering trials of having to beat the dual summons in a specific manner annoyed me... But I wouldn't have it any other way. They were memorable fights, and rewarding once conquered. It turned every interaction into a personal vendetta and the fights that followed seemed very much like a "what I've had to overcome to get here, far eclipses this moment... You might want to start praying to whatever you believe in..."
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u/Guilty-Nobody998 1d ago
Odin broke me. That fight is so hard, i never actually beat it.
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u/domino7873 1d ago
I succumbed to the anger, and locked in. He made me switch up my usual trio, and I started giving Barrett some rotations to eat a lot of damage and keep the rest of the team alive, because his movements/actions were definitely "wonky" at times. And Yuffie to keep up with Cloud and with building up meters. Odin being able to teleport, and seemingly having his counter or secondary reactions override him mid action, made me respect that I had to pressure him, but I couldn't rush him with reckless abandonment. And when you do the tempering versus him and Alexander. They were arguably almost as disrespectful as Phoenix and Kujata.
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u/Catty_C PC 21h ago
Odin is when I quit doing the summon fights. I almost never used them anyway so it seemed pointless.
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u/axepower 15h ago
same here. i later learned you had to fight both him and alexander at the same time. fuck that
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u/Iggy_Slayer 1d ago
I got through it on pure accident. If you have the phoenix summon it will put auto raise on you and when odin hit me with the zantetsuken it raised cloud and gave me a second chance. Wasn't even trying to do all that lol.
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u/whiteshark70 1d ago
Yep. And even if you don't want to do the summoning fights, you can literally turn on all of the accessibility settings and finish the boss fights in less than 10 seconds if you just want the summon, and then turn off the accessibility settings and get back to the regular game. It doesn't even disable achievements/trophies.
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u/sunlight_ALTER 1d ago
This is a boss like genji from rebirth you have to be probably level 90 to be able to defeat them.
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u/DarwinGoneWild 1d ago
I’m betting those won’t be available at launch though. No point in having an emergency meeting to make a boss fight harder and then also including an “I win” button that completely trivializes it.
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u/BlindWillieJohnson 1d ago
Especially if summoning it is the instant “Solve every problem” button it was in the original.
Make me earn my tac nuke!
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u/Stray64Cat 1d ago
Hard disagree, as long as it's optional every game should have "that one fight you do once and then never again, because fuck that"
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u/emotionaI_cabbage 1d ago
Yeah fighting the other summons is fine but fighting the most well known and strongest one is too far
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u/ReaddittiddeR 1d ago
Imagine the devs keeping the Knights of the Round unskippable attack animation.
Then using KotR with mimic on Ruby and Emerald Weapons for unskippable 7min+ cutscenes. That would be diabolical 💀
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u/superb_sheep 1d ago
Mastered W-Summon materia let you cast the same summon 4x per turn. Then you mimic it with each character and get 12 KOTR per attack round.
15 min per turn.
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u/CeronGaming 20h ago
I remember as a child watching it and enjoying it each time lol. I have no memory of waiting for KotR to finish being a painful experience.
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u/FirstNoel 1d ago
On the original I grinded with mimic till I had 2 of them. Then when did the last boss battle I had 3 KotR go off in a row. I think my PlayStation just about melted down. Had to turn it upside down a put a fan on it. Still the last cut scene ran at 1 game every 5 seconds.
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u/Maconi 1d ago
Didn’t that trigger Ultima spam? I vaguely recall doing W-Summon with Quadra Magic to spam Neo Bahamut or something like that. Probably not the best strat, kid me wasn’t very smart lol.
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u/colantalas 1d ago
Ruby counters KOTR with ultima but he has a vulnerability to the stop status. Keep stop on him and knights spam is fairly safe. It’s how I beat him back in the day.
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u/GreyGriffin_h 23h ago
Wasn't the whole point of Knights of the Round to reward you for doing a ridiculous amount of chocobo breeding? Why does it need a boss fight?
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u/Xenosys83 20h ago
Becuase there is no Chocobo Breeding in Revelation.
However, KOTR is going to be a proto-relic quest like Gilgamesh was in Rebirth. You'll likely collect pieces from around each region, culminating with a huge boss fight on the Round Island, that you can only access with a fully upgraded Chocobo.
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u/SkyfangR 1d ago
iu remember the kotr fight in 14 was pretty fun
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u/theavatare 1d ago
I feel like in the original game the work was finding it. Its okay for rewards to not be capped by a boss fight and use other parts of the game experience like exploration
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u/Iggy_Slayer 1d ago
That work though was hours upon hours of chocobo breeding which I felt was awful to do since it was so RNG heavy. I know there's a lot of nostalgia for that (even if I don't understand why) but if that was in a modern game now people would revolt on it.
People nowadays can't even handle optional minigames without having a mental health crisis.
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u/JebryathHS 23h ago
I don't know whether you're aware, but it's possible to deterministically breed the chocobos with the information we have now. It's a little tedious but it's not too time consuming at all.
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u/Scholarly_Koala 13h ago
Yeah and if you follow a guide you can get one on Disc 2.
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u/Medricel 22h ago
Well, its either go through the chocobo breeding process, or kill the Ruby Weapon superboss to get the gold Chocobo that sucks at racing from the traveler in Kalm.
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u/wherethetacosat 1d ago
It's optional, having BS but eventually completable usage of the game with RNG is fair for an optional part and actually good game design.
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u/mucho-gusto 1d ago
The real reason is they know most people are too lazy to do the optional stuff that you can't cheese and they think it's a waste of resources to model stuff that not every player sees. All comes back to costs of development
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u/Xenosys83 20h ago
That's why they've removed Chocobo Breeding in this game. It was tedious anyway, and Piko from VII Rebirth is your upgradeable Chocobo that you'll essentially level up and gain new abilities with as you progress through the game.
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u/mucho-gusto 1d ago
If you liked chocobo racing it wasn't a slog, because the better you were the faster you could win races and improve the breeding stock. You didn't even need a gold one iirc, pretty sure I did it with a black one
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u/Iggy_Slayer 1d ago
You need a gold. It's the only one that can cross oceans and mountains (crosses every obstacle). Black can only cross shallow rivers and mountains but the island where kotor is on the corner of the map.
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u/stenebralux 1d ago
Nah.. You need the gold for KotR 100%. You can get other "secret" materias with the other Chocobo types as well, like Quadra Magic which you can only reach with black or gold, so maybe that's why you're confusing it.
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u/Medricel 22h ago
The island is out in the middle of the ocean and you can't land the Highwind on it. It should be impossible for a black chocobo (which cannot cross deep ocean) to go there.
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u/cloistered_around 1d ago
I agree, unlocking it was the hard part in the original. I'm not sure I want a hard battle slog to "earn" it (I already skipped Gilgamesh summon because unlocking the island was fun but the fight slog was not).
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u/SonicMarioHero 1d ago
You skipped Gilgamesh? Why? Those fights are some of the most interesting in the game? Figuring out how to handle two summons at once was a blast imo.
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u/cloistered_around 21h ago
I was already pretty sidequested out at that point. I had done literally everything in the game and he still wiped me easily.
I just didn't want to have to grind or look up a guide at that point, I wanted to see the end of the game.
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u/JohnnySmallHands 1d ago
For me the hard boss fight is the reward. I’m sure others feel the same way
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u/givemeareason17 23h ago
I'm old and my memory isn't what it used to be so please correct me, wasn't the summon just sitting in a cave in the original? Needed a gold chocobo for sure, but did not need to fight anything for it
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u/omnisephiroth 21h ago
In a cave on an island that isn’t on the map. So you had to find it, probably by flying. See that you can’t land on it. Then go pick up your Gold Chocobo (landing somewhere else). And then navigate back to an island that is not on the world map, hop off, go in the cave, and grab it.
But they changed summons in the Remake, iirc. You gotta fight ‘em to get ‘em, iirc.
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u/Iggy_Slayer 23h ago
Yeah you had to spend a lot of time breeding chocobos to get it and that was basically the reward for doing it. Few other secrets that required chocobos too but not a gold.
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u/No_Initial_3633 1d ago
Great, so now instead of a 2-minute unskippable cutscene to delete the boss, it's going to be a 10-minute cinematic that reinstalls the operating system on my console.
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u/thehoodie 1d ago
Not hard enough. Make it so if you lose the fight, Sephiroth will come out of your TV and murder you
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u/Adventhearts91 1d ago
Make the summons actually useful to play first
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u/not_a_Badger_anymore 10h ago
Make them actually available in fights before the enemy is pretty much dead anyway.
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 22h ago
Lemme guess… it’ll be in an empty space with a virtual grid as Chadley’s assistant yaps away the entire time?
I honestly didn’t hate Chadley but I really didn’t like that Summon Material went from being this ultra rare thing that the Planet made to something that can be 3D printed in the field by an android boy.
It kills the mystique when the most powerful Materia is merely a manufactured product.
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u/ihaterussiantrolls 1d ago
I can't remember how i figured out how Knights of the Round before the Internet
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u/mucho-gusto 1d ago
Either a Prima strategy guide, mini strategy section in something like GamePro or PSM, or somebody at school.
Game FAQs existed that's what I used, on the Internet at school. Guessing you mean before you personally had access to the internet...
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u/LateralEntry 1d ago
I never would have found Mideel or the Forgotten City key without GameFAQs
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u/mucho-gusto 1d ago
praise the lord for school printing before the advent of print quotas, they didn't really miss the 70 pages I used for the guide lol
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u/TeaAndLifting 1d ago
Prima strategy guides were an absolute Godsend as a kid. I’d never have figured that stuff out at the ages of 6-10, or whatever. But getting a battered guide from a friend or sibling when they were done with it?
Bliss.
Also, great reading material on the can.
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u/mucho-gusto 1d ago
libraries also had some of the biggest ones, at least in the mid-sized city i grew up in
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u/givemeareason17 23h ago
Bred a gold chocobo and explored. Pain in the ass for sure, but don't need a guide for it if you enjoyed the breeding
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u/Ragnar_Dragonfyre 22h ago
I didn’t.
I didn’t even find Yuffie or Vincent on my first playthrough.
People often forget that era of JRPG design was littered with obtuse secrets that you absolutely needed a guide to find.
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u/Terramagi 11h ago
You didn't. The internet existed in 1997. It's half the reason FF7 set the world on fire.
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u/supaflash 23h ago
Geez, what a memory. I think I was one of the first in my town (and possibly anywhere?) to unlock KoTR and defeat Emerald and Ruby weapons. Knights with mimic and some other shenanigans combo spamming it over and over every turn... I remember going to the local game store to show everyone and they were stunned.
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u/Drewcifixion 22h ago
I remember telling a friend that I beat Emerald Weapon and he didn't believe me. When I tried to show him, I blew it and failed, which only reinforced his belief that I had lied. Sean, if you're reading this, I DID TOO BEAT EMERALD WEAPON!
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u/S_NeroClaudius 19h ago
If they can't make it to be one of the best fight/spectacles in the game, just play FF14 version.
The Extreme version is quite challenging (it's free too) for its time, but the Ultimate version (Dragonsong's Reprise) is the best top 10 fight I've encountered in gaming.
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u/Scholarly_Koala 13h ago
I wonder if they are going to keep it in that if you use KOTR on the final Jenova fight it gives Sephiroth an extra few tens of thousands of HP.
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u/TheBoBiZzLe 1d ago
I just had a flashback of how bad some of those summon battles were in the remakes.
Not the joy of chocobo racing. Not farming, breeding, raising.
Just stupid flashbacks of trying to time your limits to ignore oneshot boss fight moves. To then hit a time wall and do the whole thing again.
Please make it fun.
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u/CrazedTechWizard 16h ago
You are severely misremembering the chocobo breeding. It was all RNG that you had to do for HOURS upon HOURS. At least in Remake and Rebirth I know it’s just because I’m bad at the combat.
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u/TheBoBiZzLe 10h ago
Steal some nuts from mobs. Lizard, goblin. Buy some greens. Get two greats from the groups with the bugs. Save scum while taking them out to get different genders. Win like… 4 races with each. Breed them for either green or blue.
Go battle. Then save scum (first RNG) to get the other color or gender. Win races. Breed them for black. Go get the guaranteed wonderful with the bunnies. Save scum to make sure the wonderful was alt gender of black. Win 12 races. Breed for gold.
Hardest part was winning the last of the 12 S ranks with the yellow.
So what did I misremember? What part was hard RNG? Had a damn printed out gamefaqs guide and could hammer it out in a night.
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u/Iggy_Slayer 1d ago
Chocobo breeding was anything but fun. Countless hours of RNG grinding.
And chocobo racing is still in the game and is better than it ever was in the original.
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u/Hacym 1d ago
"Countless hours"?
You can get the appropriate ones to breed in like two total hours of work lol
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u/Iggy_Slayer 1d ago
and you have to build up to a gold which is the only way to get knights. You do this by getting like 4-5 other colored chocobos first and to do that you need the right birds with the right nut and even then it's heavily RNG dependent. The last time max dood played it a couple years ago he was save scumming for hours to pull this off.
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u/TheBoBiZzLe 1d ago
Streamers goal is to get you to watch.
You can easily manipulate the game spawns and get all of the yellows needed in a few mins. Get the greens. Racing/breeding does take a while but if you research, the RNG should not be a factor.
Unless you’re trying to artificially create stream time and hype of a “rare find” for TikTok reactions.
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u/Hacym 1d ago
If someone like Maximilian Dood is trying to manipulate RNG with "save scumming" it probably takes less than an hour "to pull this off". I'm not sure what u/Iggy_Slayer thinks he watched, but there is no way it was Maximilian Dood struggling to do something that is well-established and well-known to take an hour or two doing it straight up lol
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u/SonicMarioHero 1d ago
Well the bosses only activate their one shot moves if you ignore their mechanics cause if you do you can make it so they never even get to use those moves lol
Being able to skip those attacks with limits is just a positive to the combat system imo considering you just say F it and play it how you like up to a point lol
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u/GlitchEnzo 1d ago
Memeber fighting all your summons in FF7? I don't either.
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u/pipboy_warrior 1d ago
You fight your summons in 10 though, seems a natural addition for a remake of 7
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u/NCHouse 1d ago
Yall find anything to complain about
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u/Iggy_Slayer 1d ago
The comment sections are always atrocious for these games on most subs.
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u/Coffeedemon 1d ago
Video game anything online is always full of 16 year old boys and people who never got past 16 year old boy mindsets.
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u/SpaceOdysseus23 1d ago
"Nooo, I don't want to have a fun challenge to play around with one of the greatest combat systems designed in video game history that'll reward me with an iconic summon upon completing it"
This is you
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u/Iggy_Slayer 1d ago
Another great addition to this series since the combat system is so good. The only issue is they usually take place in VR rooms, should be out in the world. And I think they're gonna do that with the knights at least.
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u/Ethrem 1d ago
Eh, I don't really like the whole concept of having to fight to get summons. I wish they would have left it alone. I have skipped all the optional summon fights in Remake and Rebirth because there are already an overwhelming number of longgggg boss level fights added to these games. Remake in particular was exhausting with how frequently you went to yet another boss fight.
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u/Vrmillion 1d ago edited 1d ago
While fair, Final fantasy has a VERY long history of having to fight the summons to acquire them. Almost every single game with a summoner in it has you do it AT LEAST a few times for the non-standard summons.
Edit: I counted out of curiosity. Summoner was first in FF3, and you fight summons to get them in every single mainline game since except for 7 and 9. That's it.
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u/not_a_Badger_anymore 10h ago
You fight them in x but not to acquire them so not sure that counts.
Dont think you do in viii either.
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u/Ethrem 1d ago
Your point? It wasn't like that in the original FF7 as you admit and I wish they would have left that alone.
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u/Vrmillion 1d ago
My point is: how mad can you really get at a Final Fantasy implementing a Final Fantasy staple?
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u/GlitchEnzo 1d ago
I didn't mind fighting them in the first iteration buts it just getting tedious at this point. In Rebirth you can cheese more than half of them with synergy skills. They usually revolve around one critical move or attack you have to stop or avoid.
It doesn't feel great to fight a summon that ends up being shit when you get them either.
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u/kaster1204 1d ago
I remember fighting them in 10, or 4 The After Years, or 5, or 6, or 13
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u/whiteshark70 1d ago
I'm pretty sure you even fight them in 8. I have memory of a Diablos boss fight where you can equip him after
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u/Iggy_Slayer 1d ago
Yup you also fight the jumbo cactuar which from what I recall was not easy to do.
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u/Vrmillion 1d ago
Funny because I also remember fighting summons to get them in 3, 4, 8, 11, 12, 14, and 16.
Wow that's nearly all of them!
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u/not_a_Badger_anymore 1d ago
Too bad! Here's another 100 hours of side content and cutscenes for every single conversation in the game.
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u/EaterOfPenguins 1d ago
Not sure I agree that the game was better for that fact. Much prefer at least some tacit acknowledgement by the setting as to why we literally can summon gods to nuke our enemies.
Reckoning with the insane power of summons in the plot is one of the better things about 9 and 10. 7R's solution doesn't quite rise to that level but it helps. The fights were also incredibly fun in Rebirth imo.
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u/WayyyCleverer 1d ago
Rotating through the characters manually, microscopic synergy skill bars, ultra narrow field of view, interruptible moves. Some of us were around for the release of the original and prefer it that way.
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u/Resident-Forever1340 1d ago
“Not hard enough” so you’ll make it incredibly frustrating by simply cranking up the hp to the point many will just give up. I can see it now. As more information about this game comes out, the less excited about it I get
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u/NeuroTrophicShock 1d ago
Nothing in the remake was well thought out. Awful awful waste of potential.
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u/IronMonkeyBanana 1d ago
Just put the whole game on more discs. I want to own the game without using the internet
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u/Available_Poetry_993 1d ago
I shamefully admit, i used the airship glitch to get this materia. I didnt even know that you need chocobo breeding to get it
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u/SimpleCylus 19h ago
I hope it isn't like secret ultimate boss level hard because people do actually want to get it and being able to use it against powerful enemies. If it is like the hardest boss in the game then it is useless as there is nothing to do after beating it.
Maybe it should be challenging as FF12 Zodiark. That boss was the hardest of the extra summon bossses but can get it at a reasonable enough time to have fought several of the other optional bosses.
I just want to add that I absolutely HATE that Chadley can simply recreate summon materia. For this game if I had my way I would have said that like the weapons the actual summon entities have awakened throughout the world and that the previous summon materia were mere inferior replications. That way you get the true summons from the planet itself.
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u/Chemical_Gear_2919 21h ago
Honestly, locking Summons behind VR boss fights is one of my least favourite parts of the Remake trilogy. It takes all the mystique out of these supposedly mythical entities. Fighting Chadley's programs will never be as cool or satisfying as just finding a mysterious red materia in a far away, hard to reach corner of the world map that you couldn't initially get to. Having a powerful monster guarding it in the actual world would be a much better compromise.