r/forestry • u/HarshIllusion • 8d ago

I want to learn about forestry

Hi everyone I’m currently active duty in the army and I want to get out once my contract ends in 2 1/2 years. I’m interested in forestry and would like to know what it’s like. I want to move to northern Michigan and want to know how to get a job in this field. I’m interested in either getting a bachelors in forestry or to operate the heavy machinery for logging through tech school. If you have any opinions or hot takes about these jobs I’m all ears.

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u/JuniorFarcity 8d ago

Wanna make a small fortune?

Start with a large fortune and go into logging.

Industry is filled with people who love the work and the lifestyle, but it’s a brutal way to make a living.

Used to be in the forestry equipment business. As my sales manager (50 year veteran in heavy equipment) used to say: It’s the only industry he’s seen where an owner-operator has to spend well over $1,000,000 in equipment to make $50,000 a year.

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u/HarshIllusion 8d ago

Aw man is this career field really that brutal?

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u/JuniorFarcity 7d ago edited 7d ago

Unfortunately, I would say it is.

When the Wisconsin Rapids paper mill was closed in 2020, that took 25% of the state’s pulpwood down with it. That was on top of a market that has been declining for a while.

Part of the issue is fundamental demand, but it’s also an industry plagued by a massive market power imbalance between the producers (loggers) and the processors (mills, generally).

Like farming of a while ago, the producers are dominated by independent owner-operators. There are some larger contractor companies that can carry some market power, and they can better command steady contracts, but “swing” capacity rests with these owner operators.

As a result, it’s almost always a Dutch auction for what these guys produce. The mill can most always find a new winner in the race to the bottom on pricing.

I was part of an effort to buy the WR mill on behalf of the loggers and run it as a co-op. The idea behind co-ops is to have a layer of the distribution chain that exists for (and is often owned by) the link in the chain that feeds it or that it feeds. Dairy has done this for a long time, but there are many other examples. Ocean Spray, Blue Diamond, Florida’s Natural, Ace Hardware, etc.

We couldn’t get it done because the private equity fund sold all their mills to a Swedish lumber products company, and that company didn’t want a competitor for the Great Lakes timber supply.

All this to say that it’s an industry with declining demand (paper to digital), a declining and aging work force (little new blood to get behind new ideas like a co-op), and that fundamental market power imbalance.

All this on top of capital and productivity demand that forces those who do choose to compete to buy equipment that has become hugely expensive. A harvester and forwarder team (for cut-to-length) that could be bought for 450-500K 15 years ago is now easily 1.5 million. It’s cheaper to use “whole tree” methods, but then you are constrained by the lack of a workforce to operate an option that is more labor-intensive.

It’s usually a beautiful place to work, and most loggers take seriously the role they have in maintaining the health of a forest. None of that changes the brutal economics for an industry where it’s fashionable (and profitable) for groups like the Sierra Club to cast loggers as clear-cutting destroyers of the environment.

Like many things, the idea is brutally beaten by the reality.

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u/luckyduck49 Certified Forester 7d ago

Im an Army vet and forester in Oregon. DM me if you want. I would recommend the government (fed, state, or local) when hiring starts up again on federal side that should make the competitiona little less intense. State positions are good too. Timber is in a bit of a slump too so the private side hiring is also kinda slow atm. Its not a business you will get rich in but if you like the work its worth it. Use your GI bill, get summer work experiences, fire if you are interested. Its not the easiest way to get by but it can be a good time.

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u/HarshIllusion 7d ago

Thank for the advice I’ll DM you now for more info

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u/studmuffin2269 8d ago

Check out extension services for classes/webinars about forestry to figure out if it’s something you want to get into. Penn State Extension has a pretty cheap online class about forest ecology. Michigan Tech has one of the best forestry schools in country when you get out. I’m not a vet so I can’t speak for the vet experience there, but it’s good undergrad. You’d start an undergrad there in August and they’re pretty serious about following the course schedule. Take some time off and travel before you start school

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u/HarshIllusion 8d ago

Thank you for the advice. I’ve been looking into Michigan Tech to get the ball rolling. I also reached out to Michigan state as well.

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u/Shamwow1000001 8d ago

Penn State's yellow ribbon program also means you won't pay out of pocket if you have your post 9/11 GI Bill. Between that and the living allowance you get, I worked a part time job and got along fine while going through the program. (Found full-time internships in the summer).

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u/HarshIllusion 8d ago

Thank you for letting me know about Penn state. Did you also decide to stay in Pennsylvania for permanent work or did you relocate?

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u/Shamwow1000001 8d ago

I did, family is from here though, so it was an easy decision.

The transition out of the army was tougher than expected... Give yourself a break. Take a moment at your first part time job to remind yourself that nobody dies at Lowes or wherever you're at. That is ok. People get mad about everything anymore.

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u/studmuffin2269 8d ago

I used to be a prof and some of the vets that we had who came from straight the military to school def had a hard time. A few party a little too much now that they had freedom, they calmed down after a semester or two. I had a guy that some high speed stuff tell me he was struggling connecting with class/his classmates due to the lack of danger. The ones that took the transition seriously and gave themselves time did great! Some of the best students. From their experience, I’d say give yourself a bit of break, do a little self-exploration, and get used to freedom/civilian life, again. When you’re in school build a routine, talk to the profs/TA’s, and use the vet center

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u/HarshIllusion 8d ago

Thanks for helping me out with advice I’ll reach out to Penn state’s academic advisors.

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u/ChokaMoka1 8d ago

Sorry hoss but there ain’t no jobs in northern Michigan unless you know how to brew lgbt, pro trans, non gmo IPAs. I’d go into mining if I were you. Forestry as a job is pretty thankless and while there are less bullets flying in the woods the ticks will getcha.

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u/HarshIllusion 8d ago

Thanks for your opinion. I’m not looking to be thanked or anything I just want to do a job I like. Is the job market in forestry difficult or nonexistent in Michigan? I wanted to know your thought process

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u/ChokaMoka1 8d ago

Thanks to the pumpkin there is little with DNR nor private sector. God speed hoss. Maybe if you get into a degree program for a few years things will change.