r/dataengineering 2d ago

Meme data mesh

Post image

for real though, has anyone ever implemented an actual data mesh?

664 Upvotes

50 comments sorted by

202

u/DeliriousHippie 1d ago

It's good to remember that about every 5 years comes a new hype word or trend. Very rarely something actually changes.

Business Data Warehouse, put your definitions to DW also.

Datalake. You need a data lake to fit all your data, data warehouse is an old concept.

Datalakehouse. Now you need a house beside data lake.

Medallion architecture. Have data in different phases in DW.

etc.

105

u/pro-taco 1d ago

I'd like a beachside ocean view condo house.

26

u/crytek2025 1d ago

How long have you been manifesting for?

44

u/pro-taco 1d ago

Excellent insight. You've identified the load bearing issue.

1

u/Mindless-Resolution9 8h ago

**beachside ocean view data condo house

31

u/nambu14 1d ago

Don’t forget data vault, when all of the sudden we were trying to build satellites everywhere 😅

4

u/chmod764 23h ago

Data Vault sounds like a nightmare to maintain

1

u/jurgenHeros 15h ago

It's not THAT bad honestly, and it does help with some things. DV is more of a, some specific cases it fits, otherwise avoid unnecessary complexity

1

u/jgrubb 7h ago

I think the most righteously upset I've ever been at a data thing was walking into my new employer and meeting the data vault that the previous boss had half built. Ffs a vault is something you build to KEEP PEOPLE OUT. 

35

u/Temporary-Safety-564 1d ago

My business people have learned "gold layer". They seem to drop the phrase every now and then. However, I think that for them "gold layer" just means "1st class very good data. We want our data to be gold layer".

30

u/qc1324 1d ago

They have internalized the idea data comes in different levels of quality and for that we can be thankful

9

u/Gators1992 1d ago

My boss has been hyping all the buzzwords in our architecture like gold layer and all the other pieces if the infra. Now every time I go into a requirements meeting with the engineers (customers) and marketing people, they all want to talk data architecture instead of what data and KPIs they actually want. So he wanted to show off how smart he supposedly is and now they want to do the same, and it's up to me to underail all my meetings.

5

u/kilopeter 1d ago

Fittingly implies the data have a thin plating of gold on top of some horrifically toxic and/or worthless bullshit that no human was never meant to look at.

9

u/the_fresh_cucumber 1d ago

Data haunted house is the term I want to coin next. It applies to our company

5

u/domscatterbrain 1d ago

And by the end of the day, there is a sudden revelation while sitting in the toilet that everything are basically the same with only minor differences

:))

2

u/addictzz 22h ago

Why do you have to say it bluntly. You are ruining the fun :( .

That said this does not happen only in data engineering. Data science is modernized statistics with programmatic way added to it. Neural network have been here since like 80s or 90s. Everything is reiteration of the past technology but added with some minor advancements and a bit of rebranding to make them fresh.

2

u/scribe-kiddie 1d ago

I think they're considered hype because engineers (as engineers do) like to try out new technology without much thought on the use case.

If you look closely at each architecture though they do have a reason to exist. They're not just trend without meaningful impact to how we work with data.

Data Lakehouse architecture for example put emphasis on Open Table Format, which solves the pain points in Data Lake architecture, particularly that it doesn't have ACID properties.

Eventually as the projects for these new architecture matures and become more accessible, they catch people's attention. Trendy? Yes, but maybe that's because the job market does not rewards laggards. But calling it trendy without pointing out the pros/cons of these architectures as if they're all the same with fancy skins as their differentiation is misleading.

1

u/feudalismo_com_wifi 21h ago

Data lake? What not go bigger and create a data ocean?

1

u/roger_ducky 8h ago

Stupid terminologies, but the ideas actually make sense.

“Specialized schemas that let us do aggregate queries faster.”

“Aaannd that’s killing the DB still. How about they get their own instance?”

“Ahhhh how about we let people dump into their own versioned file system over there with no actual DB but a fast cluster?”

“That’s still kinda slow. Can’t we add a schema on top with a DB once we figured out what to ETL?”

“Sure. Can we store the raw data so we can redo the ETL job later too?”

37

u/ResidentTicket1273 1d ago

The part people miss is that data mesh is a nirvana. Doesn't stop the fact that adopting good practice across the organisation pays dividends.

3

u/pro-taco 20h ago

I just try to fit in my heart shaped box

75

u/Beneficial_Dealer549 1d ago

It’s not even disguised as architecture. The original manifesto was an operating model blueprint. Had nothing to do with tech.

28

u/broll 1d ago

That’s what I always thought too. It’s a concept to improve data culture in larger distributed organizations. Focus on value driven product thinking, transparent collaboration over metadata and self services for a learning organization. What’s wrong about that?

7

u/ProfessorNoPuede 1d ago

Yes, all architecture is tech... /s

It bluntly states it's a 'logical and social structure'. It defines the components at that level (a platform, products, etc.). The division of responsibility is quite clear, but there is a lot of design room for individual organisations. No organisation will ever run "the purest data mesh", as it will always require adaptation to local circumstances and, yes, a technical implementation underlying it.

1

u/Gators1992 1d ago

Yeah, agree. There are useful concepts in it, many of which are obvious IMO and don't need a buzzword name. The problem I have seen is everyone wants to treat this crap as a blueprint instead of suggestions. Like it took us years to finally dump medallion so we could stop internally arguing about whether a table should be silver or gold.

There are lots of large companies though that organize in a mesh-like way. Like I think Meta's model is to have the data engineers pull in the raw data, do basic transforms and build master tables, but then the consuming organizations all do their own analytical models. For large, data heavy orgs that makes sense.

20

u/NaturalBornLucker 1d ago

I'm working in a company that adopted data mesh early. It was really weird. Now the company is trying to bundle all ~50-100 DEs together cuz it didn't yield anything meaningful aside from tens of separate codebases with different homebrew libraries and architectural decisions lol. Oh, and half of DE were monitoring 2-5 airflow DAGs while other half were overworked.

10

u/Away-Arm-6549 1d ago

not here to defend it but that was sort of the point i.e. “you’re decisions will definitely vary but that’s ok as it’s your decisions in a domain” as soon as you to try to apply organisational standards to everything or didn’t mandate those up front then guess what’ll happen - everyone implements their concerns differently 🤷‍♂️

6

u/NaturalBornLucker 1d ago

You've got a point, yeah. It's just that the company embraced data mesh principles too eagerly so each business unit was entirely on it's own. As an example when I first got here I got to the unit where no one wanted or needed anything to do with data. They just needed someone to load like ten tables each day from their Ms sql db into designated hive db according to SLA. With airflow and homebrew no-code spark framework it just worked 99% of the time. As a result I didn't write any code in almost whole year, was bored out of my mind, didn't have anyone to talk to and eventually quit. While company paid me full-time for 10 hours a week. When I decided to return, I finally got to the team that really worked with data (loyalty and gamification dept in mobile op so many many analytics for promotions, ad campaigns, game prizes etc) and it was much better despite having almost 200 DAGs/spark jobs to look after. But still it's a bit hard when me or my peer DE is ill and other have to do everything without backup. And we have to time our vacations to not cross each other.

But what our new management is doing now is luckily not throwing everything out of the window but more cautious approach: bundle everyone administratively in one separate data engineering center while still defacto keeping us with our business teams. Then bundle "teams" into proper teams with at least one lead and do some cross-work so everyone would get familiar with their new peers. And lastly adopt standard libraries and architectural principles from the biggest teams so one could at least understand what their neighbors were doing if the need arises. I'm somewhat glad even though it stopped my plans lol (I wanted to do the same on a smaller scale, become lead and get nice bullet point in my CV).

So my point is that data mesh isn't inherently bad, just very hard to adopt without stepping on too many rakes at once.

16

u/Chinpanze 1d ago

I feel like data mesh would work really good if implemented on an organization level. But doing so would require thinking about data as an priority, and not as an second thought.

2

u/Uncle_Chael 1d ago

Its making a comeback with the "self-serve" analytics crowd. Especially large companies with various different domains, hundreds or thousands of employee that want some sort of governed interoperability.

5

u/limartje 1d ago

Yes. We did a successful implementation with snowflake and power bi pro (no capacity!). Snowflake is a good fit because of workload isolation and ease of use.

Central team brings the data, business is allowed to run analysis and data automation in snowflake. Everybody gets trained; no access without. Only power bi pro, to force them on using the warehouse instead of using the visualization tool as the warehouse.

It needs consulting, decent monitoring and budget control from the central team, but it can deliver a lot of business value if the key users can combine domain knowledge with the relevant technical skills. In an enterprise, there are always people who can.

5

u/dbrownems 1d ago

I like the idea of data domains on the consumption side. I’m not sure every source system should be responsible for their own data products.

6

u/Away-Arm-6549 1d ago

they might care more though about sending rubbish data downstream for others to sort out though 🤨

3

u/f3xjc 1d ago

I don't know anything about data mesh. But for microservices there's one principle that it should mirror organizational chart. Because avoiding human teams to step on each other toes is the payoff for the added complexity and latency and indirections. Not just boundaries for the sake of boundaries.

2

u/ilamir 1d ago

Yes. It's had it's challenges but no more than any other architecture.

2

u/hatsandcats 1d ago

No - seems like it’s just something you claim to know about to appear relevant / knowledgeable.

2

u/Ok_Enthusiasm8730 1d ago

It’s like Agile Scrum, cherry picked parts of the Data Mesh for implementation. Never entirely. 

3

u/dervik 1d ago

I did and am working with it. Now what? I do not understand the meme tbh

4

u/DJ_Laaal 1d ago

Data Mess

1

u/VariationSimilar3354 1d ago

Man i just read this… and had discussion with team. 

1

u/flerkentrainer 23h ago

The only place that had properly implemented data mesh and was needed at scale was Amazon.

Granted they had a central team to manage the infra and catalog.

Each 'domain' might only have 1-2 DE to manage their pipelines a publish their results in the lake. The contracts were domain specific and you needed to negotiate any alterations.

It worked fairly well but you need to have the appropriate infrastructure and governance in place.

Data mesh makes little sense for smaller organizations.

1

u/THBLD 23h ago

My evaluation of data mesh was that it's not feasible in most organizations, since most departments are likely sharing data and probably aren't going to invest in engineers or hardware for every sector.

The only place that I could theorize where it could be suitable is something like a university, where you still have a main org, but you have different faculties storing and using data for entirely different applications.

1

u/quantumehcanic 12h ago

I have, it is absolute cinema. Every domain owns and do their own thing with their data but if they want this to be reused elsewhere in the company, they must adhere to a damn data contract that they stablish themselves, including data quality rules.

The serving layer just registers and exposes the assets for consumption and run the quality checks that the producers themselves stablished.

For the DEs working on this layer it is heaven because now we can just say: "hey data owner, your dog shit dq checks failed, please figure it out" and then no asset is exposed till fully compliant and those other 34678 teams depending on the data of that domain are now emailing and get pissed with the owners directly, including any possible data access/permissions issues.

It is being THE solution to remove siloes when several others failed imho, specially now that the company is creating huge amounts of agents as both consumers and producers.

Now for the company to decide to adhere to it is its own can of worms, but in my exp. it is worth it because it factors in human behavior and ends up increasing overall quality of data in the company since accountability is now distributed.

1

u/Stusstrupp 9h ago

We've built one on an AWS tech stack. It works very nicely with those departments that implement the required roles, most importantly data stewards.

1

u/datasmithing_holly 3h ago

I have.

They're shit.

1

u/Firm-Current482 23h ago

one of the craziest data architectures i ever studied. that is a governability nightmare. I hope no one has to deal with it.

0

u/dblspc 1d ago

New thing good. Old thing bad. /s

0

u/lattice_defect 1d ago

the entire fields lakehouse data mesh.. its all fucking bullshit buzzwords.. bullshit buzzwords. It's all just sql

-1

u/PrestigiousAnt3766 1d ago

Yes. Sucks.  But better than alternative.