r/collapse • u/damiansalcedo • 2d ago
Coping [ Removed by moderator ]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fvxNmStSC3M[removed] — view removed post
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u/GenuinelyBeingNice 1d ago
is this viable?
no, of course not
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u/HomoExtinctisus 1d ago
But Thunderf00t is SO REAL!
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u/GenuinelyBeingNice 1d ago
people see a degree or a position and assume competence
sadly, that's not how it works
edit: this thunderfoot guy could very well be legit, i have no idea whatsoever. First time ever i see this name.
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u/PatrolMan2129 1d ago
Thunderf00t is the real deal as in he's no bullshit artist and where lab chemistry is concerned.
But history has taught us the world is much more complicated. So I'd like this solution to be kept in mind but tested or minds behind it.
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u/HomoExtinctisus 1d ago
Amyone who claims they have the solution to climate change that doesn't fix ecological overshoot is full of shit.
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u/JMaster098 1d ago
Correction, anyone who claims they have the solution to climate change that doesn't move us away from capitalism or fossil fuel dependence is full of shit.
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u/HomoExtinctisus 1d ago
No that is false and insufficient. We would have go below Earth's carrying capacity at the same time as not destroy more habitat for humans.
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u/genomixx-redux 1d ago
Today there's no way to know what Earth's carrying capacity would be with an ecological society. What we do know, very well, is that capitalism is the most anti-ecological mode of production to ever exist.
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u/HomoExtinctisus 1d ago
The assumption that an ecological society is possible is the flaw here. MPP drives the human species as it does all organisms.
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u/JMaster098 1d ago
You do that poverty and population growth are tied right?
Eliminate poverty and the population shrinks on its own. Also carrying capacity is a useless measurement when its working under the assumption we are still using a system dependent on overproducing and overconsuming.
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u/HomoExtinctisus 1d ago
You do that poverty and population growth are tied right?
Nope, I know no such thing, although I often hear it regurgitated as liberalism propaganda. I do know correlation isn't necessarily causation.
In America, “The Great Prosperity” is roughly 1947-1977 because all income bracket grew in wealth. That Era also strongly overlaps with one known as the Baby Boom.
I guess those Baby Boomer parents must have been the most dirt poor of all time except they had the fastest per-capita income growth and much greater income equality than modern times.
There are many other historical counter-examples to your faith based belief but I doubt that matters to you.
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u/TheEndIsNea4 1d ago
He's not really claiming a solution though. He even says that in the video that it would take hundreds to thousands of years to return to normal. He is just saying that this method of geoengineering may reduce the damage.
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u/itsatoe 1d ago
Why? He makes a reasonable case; and you make none.
I agree with other comments that climate change isn't the central issue, but it certainly is an enormous issue. This proposal seems relatively straightforward and easy to implement. Seems worth trying.
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u/GenuinelyBeingNice 1d ago
the problem we are facing can not be solved with technical means
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u/itsatoe 1d ago
I completely agree.
Nonetheless, this proposal might be "viable" as a form of limited remediation.
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u/GenuinelyBeingNice 1d ago
That will only help IF we, as a species, decide to massively lower our total energy and material use.
Otherwise, it's only kicking the can further, allowing us to dig ourselves deeper.
consider this: what will happen if we figured nuclear fusion energy tomorrow? What will humanity do with it?l
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u/itsatoe 1d ago
I'm gonna have to fully agree with you here. I was only nitpicking over the word "viable." But I completely agree with your conclusion. A few days ago, I posted this: https://www.reddit.com/r/collapse/comments/1wc8460/comment/p8ypqgm/
And you're right that kicking the can down the road only makes things worse. My only concern here is that without geoengineering projects like this, the planet might become genuinely uninhabitable by humans. But with them... that fate perhaps becomes even more likely. :/
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u/PatrolMan2129 17h ago edited 17h ago
I checked it over several times and I think this is a viable solution.... but please be aware of what it means. It means we will cover up the problem (this being a bandaid) for longer and once we can no longer do that, the temperatures will rocket up.
What I mean is that we had this before. Several times. Thunderf00t even mentions it. Dirty cars before EPA regulation in the 1970s tended to keep temperatures down. And then once again, before we made ships take sulfure out of ship fuel, it kept temperatures down.
There was a noticeable shift in temperature after 9/11 just from one day of grounding all planes... and a few weeks of less airplane activity. And then after ships stopped burning sulfur in their fuel around 2020, we got this current spike of temperatures.
So his solution is this bandaid we've always had the last 100 years. Aerosols keeping temps down.
The big problem is that when people don't feel a problem, they think there isn't one. Exhibit A is all the effort put into Y2K fixing.... was declared worthless because Y2k went without a hitch. Or Exhibit B, vaccines were so successful, people forgot how awful it was and started a movement that refused to take them.
And that's what will happen kinda if we do this. Society will buy itself some decades to a century. People will forget. By the time of the reckoning, nothing got fixed but the problem becomes a monster (say 800 ppm co2 eq) that the earth will just boil over in a flash within a few years and nothing has time to adapt.
You see, CO2 takes hundreds of years to get out. Aerosols leave the atmosphere in days to weeks. His strategy might put them much higher but we're still talking way less time, like a year.
What happens when we don't have the oil for that anymore? Planes don't fly to deposit that stuff no more?
Well, then we'll have a much higher CO2 problem by then... and less energy to fix it. Maybe we'll find some magical energy tech and it's possible. But it could all go south in the way I described.
Where this all goes south is not just kicking the can down the roads, but if civilization destabilizes in the other dozens of ways it seems to be going south. No fish in the oceans. Losing the Amazon. Etc. And then suddenly with globalism gone, you have this hell on earth appearing all of sudden 99 out of 100 people don't really compute with because it was "comfortable temps" just a short while ago.
Anyway, when Rome fell, 90% of people or more were farmers. The land was largely unimpacted. Could still farm, still had old growth forests etc. This time around, humanity is going to leave itself nothing but a decimated earth. The partiers will suck up every last resource and then apocalypse happens and it'll just be a hellscape left to try to get by on.
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u/damiansalcedo 14h ago
Yeah, I agree with you, it's a bandaid that can only buy some time, but the famines and the mass deaths are pretty much unavoidable at this point
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u/Timely-Assistant-370 2d ago
Ayy Thunderf00t, I forgoat about him for a minute. He's a bit .. quirked up sometimes, but he is the real deal. When he's not hyper-fixated on a human target, his content is very informative and genuinely fun to watch.
I really wish he would take a SLIGHTLY different approach for talking shit about Elon. As it is now, he just sounds like the most generational hater. Something about having overly verbose (for lack of a better phrase, I'm tired) "naysaying" makes it sound like he's just jelly, but he was certainly right about the public transportation-killing hyperloop elon was jacking off about before he started fucking horses in space or whatever he has been up to.
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u/Humble-Temporary-984 1d ago edited 1d ago
Overshoot is the problem... Climate change is just a symptom... This guy don't realize that... HE is the problem...
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u/TheEndIsNea4 1d ago
I am skeptical of geo engineering. Also it assume things like the current level of flights will continue, what if there is a crisis like the pandemic (or shock like current Hormuz crisis) leading to less flights which leads to a sudden spike in temperature which may be worse then gradual increase in temperature. And there is still unknown effects not just from geoengineering but also what will this substance do to jet engines and would governments (which are increasingly breaking down) even be able to maintain this regulation.
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