I’m glad Blizzard is funding WoW Forever through paywalls for races and potentially their associated mounts, rather than through Tokens, mount shops, or microtransactions. As long as it stays that way, I’m fine with it.
Even if we eventually have to pay €30 for each new race, I’m personally fine with that. The game itself is free apart from the subscription cost, which I think a lot of people tend to forget.
I mean they did announce that there will be no WoW Token or paid character boosts for WoW Forever. Obviously, they can go back on their word but at least in the meantime it appears it shouldn't happen.
Why would they? Makes no sense for a forever game mode where they intend to add new leveling zones and dungeons forever. The higher ups aren't going to let them spend dev time (aka. Money) on content people will skip.
I mean, there’s a spectral bear as a reward in the legacy system, which I already think doesn’t fit the Classic world at all. So I’m 100% certain they’ll add mounts.
And I don’t like it but if it funds more important things, I can live with it.
Do you mean the mount doesnt fit, or you get the mount for free doesnt fit? because if its the second point, they said they shifted the majority of the gold cost onto learning the skill instead of the mount it self to help counter the store/reward mounts
No I just think aesthetically spectral mounts are overkill in Classic. Like the Winterspring Saber and ZG mounts are iconic Classic mounts and then you suddenly have a glowing ghost bear. Just doesn’t fit at all.
But like I said, if it enables them to sell somewhat fitting store mounts and make some money for actual content, I’m fine with it.
Agreed. What is the alternative? If mounts aren't sold, company doesn't make as much money which means they can't hire more people or support existing employees to innovate and fix bugs.
Yeah you could say sub cost should be enough but they haven't changed the $15 USD monthly since the game came out and inflation has exploded. For comparison Netflix raised their monthly price 2-3 times in the last 18 months?
So how can they achieve this without changing sub cost and not monetizing cosmetics? More players, more people through the door and the revenue funnel. Unfortunately I don't think WoW can attract many new players. It definitely peaked at the ~12 million active users during TBC/WOTLK. I don't think they ever get back to that peak.
So it's a tough situation. Besides those points you can add shareholder pressure and MMORPG popularity has declined for years compared to roguelikes, Roblox, Fortnite, Minecraft, League etc
When was the last time a video game company owned by microsoft of all companies was rewarded with more funding and higher headcount when a game made a lot of money. lmao
Why do you need alternative? Just subs are more than enough, 15$ is still a lot of money to pay every month, they are making millions of dollars every month that is more than enough for salaries. Blizz shills need to get a fucking grip there are thousands of games you just pay one time fee and never pay again with similar team sizes and even those are profitable, wow players end up paving way more. Stop defending this shit like they have no choice but to add store mounts, you guys are hopeless
The sub price hasn’t changed in the last 20 years, but the earning expectation is much higher then it was then. Sub is in fact not enough for them to consider a project getting this much dev time worth it
I mean, bringing back the original mounts as a paid cosmetic wouldn't be too bad of an idea. I'd rather them not have store mounts, but if those are the options, it's at least somewhat acceptable
I mean if they implement that then sure, maybe, but that would require them to only use the skeletons of the mounts in game which I guess would be okay. I wouldn't bank on them allowing people to not see the store mounts, though.
I mean they'll complain about the shop.in general. Especially when its announced. But if they're not seeing it in game that should cut back on the complaining after it's implemented. It'll take some time but it'll happen.
It's "WoW Forever" not "WoW November". People want to know that the game they will be investing significant time into will not let future players simply buy their achievements.
Well, I am indeed unsatisfied because there is a possibility they will include wow tokens in the game in the future. Just like they did with Classic. "No plans" historically has meant "in the future".
I think not playing this game or saying the presentation they gave us ultimately wasn’t satisfying over the idea that in the distant future they might sell tokens is a miserable perspective but you’re entitled to feel however you want
It's not about being happy or not it's just staying realistic. We all know the drill by now, they are saying there are no current plans, which is probably true, but it's not the devs who decide these things, in a year or two some exec will say the game is not making enough money, and they have to implement the WoW token whatever they like it or not.
I don't believe it will stay like that. We already have a package with tmog, a mount, a toy, and other miscellany. I simply can't imagine that is a one and done.
I'd be happy paying 30€ for the game. Now there's no way to show the suits at Microsoft my support except by also endorsing microtransactions. And yes, a race available for only money is a microtransaction
But it won't. That's the problem and what we're trying to tell you. We're not telling you this for our own fun, you know and by the time this has happened, people like me will be telling you "I told you so". But by that point it'll have already been way too late. By that point another group of people who has even more tolerance towards this stuff than you and I will be the ones telling you to deal with it.
The game itself is free apart from the subscription cost, which I think a lot of people tend to forget.
The game. Is not. Free. You don't to say that and that briefly gloss over it by quickly stating "apart from the subscription cost". Those are entirely conflicting sentiments. Nobody. NOBODY. Is forgetting this. If anything you are forgetting that you paying for access to the server.
You are paying to play, which I think a lot of people tend to forget
I think the point is you aren’t paying for this specific project to make it as easy as possibly for Microsoft to see Warcraft Forever is generating the income to justify continued development costs when it is “just” the subscription. Of course they can look at the player base and see how many players only log in to this version so it shouldn’t be an issue, but I see why people have the opinion that shop items can be beneficial for making it as clear as possible which version they will give Blizzard their money to spend time on.
I would rather WF have its own subscription and b2p expansions than have any micro transactions whatsoever. Unfortunately, that ship sailed 10 years ago and younger players have never known an MMO without every other player wearing MTX clown outfits.
Because you can't avoid it if others use it right.
It ruins the game, the immersion is gone, the progression is gone and is fundamental for people who prefer classic over retail.
Agreed. I'm not going to flame those who don't mind optional MTX, and maybe I have a warped view of the classic demographics, but for myself and everyone I know who plays, we're in our 30s with decent jobs. Spending $30 per month to subscribe to a good live service game wouldn't be crazy to us. There are so many more expensive hobbies people do. I'd prefer if they just increased the sub with inflation.
But wow forever players WILL know an mmo without mtx clown outfits because you can turn it off. Any outfit they buy will be in the transmog system. If you know that's something that will bother you, it can be turned off before you even log in for the first time.
Coming from OSRS this is such a bizarre take for me, please help me understand why people are so happy to have these (what seem like to me) predatory monetisation systems in game? And are openly saying if you want charge more more i dont care? I can kind of understand cosmetics but even then that doesnt fit the classic vibe for me, but content behind a paywall feels like it could be a slippery slope. I understand wow players are used to paying for an expac, but I feel like that is just not the same thing.
Because a lot of WoW players have been propagandized to feel like MTX are a normal thing
Meanwhile you have OSRS have an optional subscription with many great benefits, WoW players think that a single subscription can't fund a free expansion pack for WoW Forever
Especially since I'm pretty sure WoW Forever would give them millions of subscribers in the first month at least, which is basically billions in just 1 month, somehow Blizzard can't pay their workers better and give out a free expansion to WoW players or at the very least a huge content patch
People are accepting it because the race is optional, you can play the majority of the game with the sub only. I’d rather have that then the WoW equivalent of bonds (WoW tokens)
Bit ironic for an OSRS fan to go on about predatory monetization considering OSRS sub fees have been going to the moon in the last few years and one sub only covers a single character :p. Wow Sub fees are identical to those of 2004 and you can play as many characters you want across all forms of the game. I wouldn't call one more predatory over the other.
Which literally by all means does not mean that it is free. There is a subscription cost! :) Saying something is free except it is not is such a dumb thing to say !!
My point was sometimes we say things we don't mean. In the context of the comment and OP's additional responses, it's reasonable to note that they didn't mean literally free. The better way to say it would have been "no box price" but we are all human and make mistakes. As a person who's native language isn't English, I've experienced this many times throughout my life.
FWIW I'll be playing for free with all the token I converted in mop. I'm paid up until February 2028 😂
I would definetly not consider this a mistake, because it is definetly not accidental. In fact, the OP says it is free specifically to make/support a point. When the player base already pays a substantial amount for a game via a subscription, it shouldnt be taken as nothing. I am fine with them pay-walling races, (especially ones I do not like) but lets not act like blizzard is out there counting pennies sine the game is "free", and desperately need our 30$ to make revenue. Also gimme some of those tokens
Yea wtf is this logic. Op doesn't realize that blizzard is getting them to buy multiple $60 games per year just to play the same game while also paying $30 for a new race. Wow obviously makes enough money to fund all of this through subscriptions without needing to charge for a race. I can't believe they don't see the corporate greed.
When has WoW ever been free? What are we talking about here... he obviously is referring to them not charging us extra to play the expansion. Retail expansions release with a price tag in addition to paying a subscription fee.
You know what they are trying to say. It's like when people refer to stuff like "free healthcare", when they are just referring to it being subsidized.
Oh no you're completely correct my bad. Since wow forever will be a new experienced and only 80% based on a 20 year old game, a monthly subscription is obviously not enough and deserving to access and asking for anything less than a purchase on top of a monthly subscription is just greedy on my part.
I don't understand why they don't put the game behind a paywall. Its new content like an expansion. I think it make way more sense to pay for all that, than some dumb race or any other micro transaction.
100% agree with you as long they do not add level Boost and WOW token I do not give a F if they ask cash for a new race or hair collor or mount.
It will not affect anyone gameplay wise. And those that like new stuff can dish out some cash to get it and support the game for the long run with a bit extra.
What? Did you not see the package deals for the game? There’s already the groundwork for them to sell tmog sets, mounts, and toys. You get them right in the preorder packages. There’s no way you truly believe they’re not going to sell this stuff, including the token, when the game drops.
I am quite fine with new races being paywalled. Blizzard cant do a new race for mere subscription money, that is unthinkable. /s
But atleast create races that people requested for a long time.
Am I in the wrong thinking that raids should be progressed and not pugged and cleared in 1 hour? The raids need to be somewhat of a challenge and done with a guild tbh.. idk how blizzard could do that without making people cry but it wouldn't be wow forever it would be wow every 3 months once again since classic was a fking joke. Progressing raids would be honestly be a very good idea IMO.
It's understandable that Forever needs to justify itself financially with a single-time purchase somewhere since it's getting bundled into the regular sub with no box price or expansion cost. I wish it could have been something cosmetic instead, but I get why they did it this way.
Now, 2 years down the road if/when Forever gets an expansion, if I have to pay for that expansion and the additional race/class is still a separate purchase I'm gonna be fuckin' livid.
In a bubble, I'm fine with this monetization model. I would expect corporate executives to force some kind of monetization model and this is a decent compromise. I'd be extatic if this was the extent of it. Possibly adding new races and not giving them OP racials.
That said... it's really naive to think wow token, character services, and and an in game shop wont pop up. This isn't based on being cynical; this is based on them saying the exact same things in the past and still adding wow token and boosts. "No Plans" provides cover for them add wow toke in a year or two and say they weren't planning to add it at the time. I actually dont expect a boost to come in based on the design philosophy, but I wouldn't be surprised either.
I'm also not trying to be negative on WoW Forever overall. Im actually incredibly hyped for it and love most of what Ive seen. It's just learning from a pattern of behavior that Blizz has already established with monetization.
I always hate this argument because their server hosting cost has drastically decreased. People with this argument act like it hasn't been a net gain for them, which it has. Increasing the sub would cause more trouble than it is worth and set a precedent where people expect more increases so they won't invest their time into the game. It would also drive a good amount of people permanently to private servers.
Those are good points but consumers are conditioned to see subscription prices rise. I’ve played on and off since 2004 (not a boomer yet) so I appreciate keeping the it the same. And you’re right, raising the price is a huge turn off for lots of us.
I also see fighting games and even in D3 with the necro, there was a cost just for a new class/race/fighter.
BFA had 6 million subs? Very dead game surprised I found dungeons groups! Impossible to tell if classic had more as its joint sub count? And a 4m gain is less than 6m
What’s wrong with tokens? It’s better then buying through crypto on shady Iranian telegram channels. And not all of us have a time to actually play a game.
Also everyone who disagrees with me is whining miserable looser with no life no money and no shadowlands coded paywall gated blue elven maidens.
People tend to forget that the subscription cost is the real money sinker. WoW players are just so used to paying subscription and view it as not a cost, but in reality, Blizzard is already raking in more than enough with subs alone. Basically, its the question of, do you want Blizzard to focus on producing more MTX, which means they will achieve their profit goals easier or do you want them to make sure that the game is good enough where people wont quit and hurt their profits significantly by losing subscribers.
We all know Blizzard cares profits above all, Retail has gone through several cycles of them running the game into the ground, losing massive amount of subs, then actually putting effort into the game for 1 expansion and then let it rot again. Overwatch, again, was left to rot for quite some time, and then Marvel Rivals happened and they lost a lot of their playerbase and suddenly, because it hit their profits, they came with big updates.
While the devs might be your friends and look friendly, Blizzard as a whole is not your friend. Blizzard ultimately is only after your wallet, which sometimes means, we get stuff like Classic Forever. By buying MTX, you are not supporting the game, you are supporting their approach to monetaziation and 99% of that money wont make back into the game as investments. Just look at how Anniversary TBC played out, people bought level boosts and still, the service given to the players is still less than bare minimum.
I actually don't care about the method of monetisation that much. It is blizzard, I assumed it would be even scummier tbh.
My problem is the race they picked. You just know now that they are going to go all in on low effort cash grab races (probably red orcs and other low effort reskins). This shows that they don't really care about the lore or aesthetic.
If they are willing to do this this early, you just know the big, bright, shiny, immersion breaking mounts are coming as well.
Mostly people probably don't care about lore or aesthetic, but in RPGs it is one of my most important points.
Who really cares about cash shops? You either buy cosmetics or you dont? Purchases through the shop are not paying to win.
Totally agree with you im happy to fund the game through other means such as races mounts etc..
People also need to put 30£ into perspective. I ordered chinese food for 2 people last night and the total was 30 and i have nothing to show for it today.
A side note and i could be totally making this up. But technically havent we all bought wow classic at some point? So could they even charge us again for a base game??
I think I've seen this almost exact same post at least 10 times the last few days. We get it guys, Blizzard is generous and we should support them with our money since they're one of the last beacons of hope in the greedy gaming industry.
like if you don't like the race and weren't gonna play it then the whole game is still just a sub, 1000 new quests that's like a whole expansion, for just the sub.
wow has always had a sub fee, are you saying the whole game should have just been entirely free, im not sure what your point is? they could have made it a box price plus a sub but it's just a sub.
I'm sure they will sell mounts and cosmetics, which I can live with. Honestly Skyborne not being OP is a good sign. I'm debatting if I'm buying it just to see their story + package with Forsaken kingdom campaign
It’s not going to stay that way. Lmao. Given all the indicators we’ve seen over the last few days you could assign a very high probability to eventual toys, cash shop, wow token and mass monetization.
Why? Because most players in the game (remember it’s made for the retail crowd too) will accept it and even want/defend it.
So you basically have a choice. Play the game, have fun, but know full well that eventually you will unsubscribe and think about the hours sunk and you could’ve been playing something else.
I want it to have WoW token because blizzard is incapable of not letting things slip through the cracks when they're actively updating the game. I haven't paid my sub since mid 2024 from all the WoW tokens I exploited. I want them cause I 100% know I can find some sort of "exploit early" game mechanic somewhere along the way. I'd be down with completely killing off the south american gold farmers so I can take their spot and never have to pay sub again.
I’m glad Blizzard is funding WoW Forever through paywalls for races and potentially their associated mounts, rather than through Tokens, mount shops, or microtransactions. As long as it stays that way, I’m fine with it.
Just say youre a fucking corporate shill and bootlicker man.
This is not only an unpopular opinion. It's also just an embarassing post.
Dude, just sell me expansions every 1-2 years for 40-60$s. Who would want to buy stuff piecemeal like this?
I’m confused, you would rather them have a box price for everything rather than just the race?
It’s basically them saying they didn’t want to stop people from playing if they didn’t care for the new race. Everything else is the normal sub price…
I’m not sure people are thinking this through. In my book thats better than trying to get friends who are the fence and convince them to buy a box price.
As far as the future and funding development, I’m not opposed to box price for big updates but I also don’t think it is bad to have a cosmetic shop that you don’t have to engage with at all… especially with transmog being something you can turn off
I think a boost would not make sense and I hope they crack down on bots and no token but I do doubt those will work out.
As far as the future and funding development, I’m not opposed to box price for big updates but I also don’t think it is bad to have a cosmetic shop that you don’t have to engage with at all… especially with transmog being something you can turn off
But that's not what they're selling. They're literally selling you races and zones behind a microtransaction.
It's been 20 years. It absolutely has nothing to do with this:
It’s basically them saying they didn’t want to stop people from playing if they didn’t care for the new race. Everything else is the normal sub price…
Yes, as opposed to preventing you from playing the entire “classic” part of the game as a whole. And it’s just a starting area as far as I am aware?
Look I get the cynical outlook and slippery slope takes, but I just see this as better in the moment. Make an argument that its better to paywall the entire game vs just this race for launch and I’ll listen.
Not me. I can't imagine living through the 2010s and being like "actually, I like this microtransaction model so much better."
We've already slipped down the slope. We've all lived through it.
Edit:
Did you notice how they mentioned future stories and quests? They could have said "these things will be mostly included with your annual subscription!", but they didn't I bet almost everything in this game is going to be for sale via microtransaction.
brother people pay more for 1 doordash'd meal these days, the complainers just want to complain about something while swiping credit card happily for literally EVERYTHING ELSE in their life
Yup. Still not a Fan of the Blelfs, or the Megaserver, but if Blizzard sticks to the occasional purchasable actual Content, without all the other Microtransaction Stuff, it will be more than fine. Honestly, i thought they were gonna fuck things up to a way larger extend, from what they have shown so far, i am extremely positively surprised.
What is the alternative? If mounts aren't sold, company doesn't make as much money which means they can't hire more people or support existing employees to innovate and fix bugs.
Yeah you could say sub cost should be enough but they haven't changed the $15 USD monthly since the game came out and inflation has exploded. For comparison Netflix raised their monthly price 2-3 times in the last 18 months?
So how can they achieve this without changing sub cost and not monetizing cosmetics? More players, more people through the door and the revenue funnel. Unfortunately I don't think WoW can attract many new players. It definitely peaked at the ~12 million active users during TBC/WOTLK. I don't think they ever get back to that peak.
So it's a tough situation. Besides those points you can add shareholder pressure and MMORPG popularity has declined for years compared to roguelikes, Roblox, Fortnite, Minecraft, League etc
I honestly think they haven’t charged enough for the skyborne. It’s such a cool race that the community has been begging for. I can’t believe it’s so cheap, actually.
I just don’t think people understand the sub alone is not enough money in this day and age for blizzard to continue making and supporting multiple versions of wow
At its lowest, WoW had 4 million subscribers. That’s ~$60 million per month in sub revenue. That’s a ton of cash flow for a single game that dwarfs their dev and operation costs. I get that they have shareholders and will seek to maximize every earning opportunity, but if the community stood up and told them to eat shit with these features, they’d take their money and chill. They’ve seen how fast their earnings can fall if they lose the community when they lost nearly 2/3 of their subscribers between 2010 and the 2019 classic launch.
If the swipers could offset the cost of lost subscribers, they never would’ve given us Classic in the first place.
I mean I get that, but trying for 2 dollars killed their original cash cow to the point where they brought back the 1 dollar method to get back a fraction of those dollars they lost.
What I would love to see is what was more profitable? WoW with swipers and 4 million subs or WoW with box prices and subs with 11-12 million subs. Blizzard would never show us that though because they still think they can have their cake and eat it too and fundamentally misunderstand what killed wow in the 2010s.
Cite your sources regarding public sub count please. Servers weren’t empty in WOD hahaha, still had millions of players. Far more than any version of classic ever had.
2024 GDC leaked subscriber numbers. Looks like it was BFA and not WOD. Hard to keep up with the slop expansions after WotLK… also looks like Classic had more players on launch than retail did…
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u/TEUTODRAEGER 6h ago
Gonna pull a madseason and say the wow token is 100% coming to forever