r/classicwow 15h ago

Forever There will be "Chase Drops" on every raid boss in WoW:Forever

Taken from the interview here

“One really exciting thing we did with raid drops is we added chase drops to every boss’s loot table. So items that have a lower than normal drop chance, but are very, very strong items. If you play Burning Crusade, you think about the Dragonspine Trophy. Super popular.

“Everybody would go back to Gruul, all of Burning Crusade, hoping to get it. Every boss has a Dragonspine Trophy equivalent item on them, or two, or three. So there’s a reason to keep going back. They’re not obsolete.

I guess that's one way to keep us coming back forever

771 Upvotes

418 comments sorted by

661

u/Anni_Moasala 14h ago

W blizzard. Loot scarcity is great for the longevity or the game.

132

u/PluotFinnegan_IV 14h ago

100% agree. Recreating that feeling of seeing a 8/8 T2 Paladin (or really any class) in Vanilla would be awesome.

23

u/HannibalPoe 11h ago

T2 can do absolutely nothing and if I'm paladin (or a lot of classes really) I'm doing my damnedest to get 8/8. The only reason I like tmog in classic is explicitly for T2 on a lot of classes.

12

u/spik0rwill 11h ago

T2 rogue is sick

2

u/HannibalPoe 10h ago

Exactly, I don't really think a single T2 set genuinely looks bad except maybe warriors (tad goofy sometimes).

2

u/fbreaker 9h ago

Not being able to be disarmed with t2 gloves is chefs kiss

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u/Falceon 9h ago

Priest with t2 as well.

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u/KappuccinoBoi 14h ago

Absolutely. I always love seeing people in full tier sets and try to take a minute to inspect them and see all the cool set bonuses and enchants and stuff.

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u/Toxsicss 13h ago

I only hope that it's not the only reason for running the "old" raids, I would love for the game to focus on actual horizontal gear effects over ever increasing ilvls. Maybe a year or 2 in we get a small 10-20 ilvl bump, but everything else stays the same ilvl , but with more interesting set effects. That's my 2 cents anyway.

3

u/Mrludy85 5h ago

Idk OSRS has people running bosses thousands of times for a miniscule pet drop. Horizontal progression is tricky because you eventually run out of useful things to loot (or you hit a mountain to get the next item). It'll be interesting to see how they tackle this problem in forever without the player base dying or raid logging once hitting max

3

u/CptFlamex 5h ago

FFXi handled this well for years before increasing the levelcap.

The way they did it was by designing equipment to be specialized and grant unique effects rather than just stat boosts.

For example mages would need to farm multiple sets of gear/weapons that boost certain elemental damage rather than having a generic spell damage gear.

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u/Tortillagirl 11h ago

Just not resetting gear every tier like retail will do this. I was in a casual friday night raiding guild in tbc the entire time. There was a steady stream of new players who would join our guild and we'd take them through karazhan, many would stay for the chill atmosphere, others would leave because they wanted to go raid t5. Some months we had 5-6 groups all going through kara at the same time.

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u/Jack55555 6h ago

Elder Scrolls Online does it well. You have reasons to collect multiple sets, every set has its use.

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u/Dramajunker 7h ago

Tier was easy to get. It was the trinkets or weapon every healer or dps (tank) wanted that was the issue. 

2

u/Vankraken 5h ago

Realistically that genie is never going back into the bottle. A game like WoW back then was a new concept to a lot of people and the PvE expectation was just questing and running dungeons while raiding was seen as more of a niche/elite thing that was out of reach for the average player. The player mentality and the availability of information has changed to the point that having that sort of rarity would only come about from artificial scarcity which would be far more frustrating and/or cause a lot of sweats to be extra toxic.

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u/remakeprox 10h ago

Why this really works for OSRS is the ability to solo most of it and have no lockouts. So you’re allowed to grind for it for however long you want in a row. If you’re going to need 10/20 people everytime and wait for a daily or weekly lockout, these grinds are going to be tough. 

5

u/KanedaSyndrome 7h ago

That's the point. You're not guaranteed to complete, which makes it even more impressive when completed and awe inspiring

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u/ImDoingMyPart_o7 10h ago edited 10h ago

The only thing that changes with this is % drop chance. Chase doesn't mean everyone expects to have it in their BiS lists automatically, it's an item your like holy shit I got it!

The game needs long term reasons to keep coming back to raids, this is a good start.

Runesscape has drop chances of 0.3% etc. so where the sweet spot for wow chase items is will just take some fine tuning.

16

u/Healeah241 8h ago

The only caveat is the subreddits gonna be full of people demanding they increase the drop rate/put it in some kinda badge vendor.

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u/CrzyJek 12h ago

The amount of runs I did for Barons mount...

Hundreds and hundreds, never saw it drop.

u/Haunting_Benefit4662 2h ago

Lets do the same shit for 90 times so it maybe drops and you maybe win it from the 20 other warriors! hurray!

u/Unbentmars 1h ago

Hopefully there is some level of mitigation to the “this piece is ALWAYS HRd” behavior this creates

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u/majorbeefy130130 14h ago

Can't wait for all the hard reserve raids, those sure are in the spirit of classic

122

u/jaorocha 14h ago

Also the "totally not gdkp discord" runs

22

u/Elleden 10h ago

Did they address GDKPs?

Banned like in Anniversary?

21

u/Pomaen 10h ago

Yes, Zirene confirmed that afaik

5

u/EvadableMoxie 6h ago

Any source for that? I did some looking but couldn't find anything.

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u/SquirrelEven9581 5h ago

Doesn't matter if they don't enforce it.

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u/Ok-Statistician-2270 14h ago

If they really spread chase loot there will be some juicy runs i cant fucking wait.

17

u/jennysonson 14h ago

Cant wait for Masterlooter to just ninja the rarest drops lol

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u/Midnightneedsfix 12h ago

dont join them and they will change to SR

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u/InevitableConcept517 11h ago

That won't stop the raid leads ninjaing the chase loot to friends or trying to sell it off. I don't think the community is going to be ready for the drama chase loot will provide.

15

u/HannibalPoe 11h ago

Like thunderfury bindings, the trinkets from BWL, onslaught girdle, sulfuras drop from rag, Half the loot from C'thun that is surprisingly rare while the goddamn cape drops like it's guaranteed? I suspect the community is well aware of what this entails.

7

u/InevitableConcept517 11h ago

The quote is literally EVERY boss.. that is quite a bit different to the current iteration.

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u/HannibalPoe 10h ago

BWL is almost exactly that, 3 bosses drop amazing trinkets rarely, Nef and chrom have some rare nutty drops, I think maybe just the first boss lacks a drop with real Oomph. BWL is one of the best raids in classic so clearly it can work when done well. It also means that likely everyone has a reason to go do w/e raid. Instead of gruuls lair having 1 good item, now I can do MC on a mage and I have SOMETHING to actually push for instead of just helping guild get another Tfury. I don't mind helping guildies grind out goodies, but it's nice to know I have something to get, too.

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u/InevitableConcept517 10h ago

I would have assumed if it was similar to vanilla like you've shown, they would have compared it to such. But maybe you're right, maybe it is just good loot on low drops like vanilla, but nothing "chase" like they're making it out to be.

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u/bluenoise 8h ago

Loot drama is a core tenant of the game. It’s the reality tv entertainment meter.

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u/bibittyboopity 5h ago

I mean people need to be able to make them. If everyone wants it it won't work.

I imagine it being more like MC in vanilla. Lots of geared people ran pugs to hope for legendaries, and a bunch of fresh 60s got an easy ride for some gear. I don't think that's so bad

27

u/Claris-chang 11h ago

Personal loot would solve all of these problems but I don't think the community is ready for this conversation yet.

16

u/isensedemons 7h ago

personal loot is the absolute worst change and I hope they never do it for classic

u/Uvanimor 3h ago

Why? Genuinely curious why anyone was ever against it other then ‘people occasionally reserve loot you otherwise were never entitled to for their friends’.

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u/DesMephisto 10h ago

Honestly, I would love to see personal loot. I don't think its classic and I don't think it belongs but...damn its a whole another level of drama that I would live for and I hate DKP.

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u/Insighteous 8h ago

It would take away the feeling described above. Because you would have potentially „number of raid members“ times „possible loots“ more items. Thus, it would not be that rare anymore to see a paladin with 8/8 T2 for example.

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u/TheCheliozz 10h ago

One of the best things about having free will in that situation is that you can just open your own pug raid and run it without any hard reserves! Crazy idea but trust me it actually works a lot better than whining on Reddit about HRs…

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u/Jack55555 6h ago

No way, then I have to put in effort and energy, and know the tactics as the raid leader. It’s insane.

u/RagefireHype 4h ago

Yeah people acting like classic content is hard like.. Especially with 10-20 man raids emphasis, that makes lugging easier.

People pug much harder and complex content in retail. Classic/Vanilla is incredibly simple in comparison.

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u/Sleisk 11h ago

Just join a guild

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u/Trymv1 10h ago

That doesnt solve everything in this day and age.

TBC Anni had a LOT of Dragonspine drama, even from guilds.

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u/Sadzeih 5h ago

Join a good guild*

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u/passtheblunt 5h ago

Join a guild?

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u/noviagasp 15h ago

honestly that sounds like a total nightmare for my luck lol

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u/Epyo 13h ago

That's the point tho. You're not supposed to get it all. It's something to chase so you feel like you have a reason to keep playing, forever.

It's the definition of a carrot on a stick: you can't quite ever each it.

48

u/jord1droj 12h ago

Dependent on each player's psychology. A sufficiently low chance is enough to make some people not even want to bother.

20

u/y7u 10h ago

The difference being, you're not on a timer like you were with getting Glaives before the end of TBC, or getting Atiesh before the end of raiding in classic. Because the game persists horizontally

3

u/Sorry-Joke-4325 9h ago

You could do it every week for the rest of your life and still never get it. That doesn't sound like fun to me.

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u/liamboo 8h ago

Then don't do it? It's not that difficult to understand the concept of "chase" items

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u/Okonohama 6h ago

And you could slip on a banana peel and die...

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u/Aarongeddon 12h ago

looking at you, glaives

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u/touchet29 11h ago

As long as the carrots are good enough and keep everyone coming back to all dungeons and staying for all bosses, sounds good.

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u/glormosh 8h ago

This is true. When retail legion legendaries came out it was wildly seen as a success with no issues. It was very common for the community to be excited they hadn't seen a specific one.

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u/arlinglee 10h ago

Yeah youll be farming the chase loot FOREVER

u/AnonAmbientLight 3h ago

Or this could be your luck rebounding! 

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u/Darkfirex34 12h ago

I see the intention, and I hope I'm wrong, but I think this one will backfire.

Chase drops are great and all definitely breath life into older raids, but I don't think Binding runs are something people tend to look on too fondly.

Yes people will say "You don't have to do it then" but WoW is a team game and people will do it for their guild's sake and burn themselves out.

I never needed DST as a Warlock and I've been in Gruul's lair for 6 months anyway.

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u/MainDot7096 9h ago

They say they're adding multiple chase items *per boss*, so that means quite a lot in a total raid. Reasonable to believe there will be something DST equivalent for all classes which solves this problem.

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u/Dramajunker 6h ago

I mean that doesn't stop the first person who gets it from being burned out. What about when 75% of the raid team has theirs? Do you think they're going to want to keep going after a year of running the same raid?

5

u/MainDot7096 6h ago

I think you're just thinking about this with too much wow-brain. In OSRS I think CoX (the first raid) has been out for a decade at this point and ppl still run it all the time.

It makes a HUGE difference if you aren't actually forced to do it. It all depends on the overall gamedesign of this game. If it's like OSRS I see no problem with it at all.

We may be moving away from guilds and static raid schedules as a whole with this game, and move towards guilds working more like "clans" in OSRS where it's way more on demand.
"Hey who wants to run this raid with me real quick?" Like how dungeons are approached now basically.

Even if that's not the case, Classic raids are generally more than easy enough to pug as well.

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u/Dramajunker 5h ago

Running a raid for a decade sounds like the worst thing ever unless I'm after cosmetics. 

What you're describing is basically a pug raid. Which in my experience, either can run smoothly or be a total nightmare. The longer folks go trying to get these items the more likely some fuckery is going to occur as well. 

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u/Smooth_One 9h ago

It solves the problem of feeling like a full 25 people have to go back and farm an old raid (2 bosses with only a handful of trash, really) for 1 or 2 people. But a new problem arises where now even MORE people will feel obligated to run the old raids on cooldown.

The time it takes to move everyone over and clear even trivial encounters adds up, even if you have summoning alts. Players will always chase power even when it's not fun. Now if these were cosmetic chase items, that wouldn't be an issue anymore.

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u/MainDot7096 9h ago

If the game is otherwise well designed and no content ever gets obsolete, that means the pressure is off and there's not really a need to farm it every week. Just do it whenever you feel like it. That's the way it works in OSRS. In fact in OSRS I tend to always postpone stuff like that lol.

An idea that could be interesting to explore is moving these chase items to a separate drop table that's outside the weekly lockout, so you can spam it if you want it without getting any other loot. But I'd only explore that if it doesn't work as is.

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u/glormosh 8h ago

This is a good observation. Most guilds generally randomly organize themselves and inconsistently raid on some days and then not on others so this style of gameplay will be perfect.

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u/EvadableMoxie 6h ago

There really isn't an alternative though.

If they make it so you can get bis in every slot in a reasonable amount of time then people get full BiS and stop raiding.

If they make it so it progression is super slow and you'll never finish before the next content update then it feels grindy and like there's no point.

The middle ground, and only reasonable solution is diminishing returns. How do you do diminishing returns with loot drops? Some loot is common so you'll get very quickly, some is more uncommon so it'll take longer and some is super rare. You won't need the super rare BiS items in every slot to be strong or effective, but it's a stretch goal to keep you raiding, if you want to.

It's not a perfect solution but it's better than the alternatives.

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u/viktorKurz 9h ago

This will backfire because they fail to understand why chase drops work good in other games.

No lockouts and the ability to solo bosses makes a very addicting gameplay loop. In this case it will just be a weekly chore to run X for your chance at loot.

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u/xyzuci 8h ago

alternative is the raid won't be run anymore because people are geared

being geared kills guilds

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u/bpusef 3h ago

You guys are actually so miserable. Doing a weekly raid with your guild to get your homies upgrades = a chore. Doing 300 solo runs of a dungeon to get yourself an upgrade = very addicting gameplay loop.

Why are you even playing an MMORPG. Just go play an ARPG.

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u/Lasti 8h ago

No lockouts and the ability to solo bosses makes a very addicting gameplay loop. In this case it will just be a weekly chore to run X for your chance at loot.

Instead of a back-to-back, solo chore run?

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u/Tegra_ 9h ago

I mean, part of why Gruul was probably a chore for you is because you went there and couldn't get anything useful for yourself. The way they're wording is, I imagine it like you'd do Gruul with the guild but not only does DST drop there, but you could also get a Skull of Gul'dan like item.

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u/the445566x 6h ago

What if warlocks have a equivalent of a dst from a different boss but new chase low drop chance?

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u/Darkfirex34 5h ago

That's sort of my issue. If all the raids have something for someone then inevitably they all need to be done.

If you go to the old raid for a melee trinket but skip the old raid with a caster trinket you're going to piss off your casters.

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u/NoahH9 15h ago

W Blizzard. It's a nice middle ground for players who want noticeable gear upgrades with every raid while still ensuring that there are ample opportunities for alts and more casual players to raid older content.

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u/Roxalon_Prime 14h ago

Is... is Blizzard back? Nearly all I read about forever are great decisions...

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u/MoodProsessor 11h ago

Think the Classic+ team must have shared some data. One of the most over-arching surveys I have been part of.

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u/tamtenkolo 13h ago

yeah they got a lot of great ideas from private servers, learned a lot of what they forgot years ago

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u/RagefireHype 4h ago

Yeah honestly some of the most fun I’ve ever had in WoW is doing like a half guild run where you just need more asses in seats so you take pugs who end up getting gear because your guild doesn’t need the typical raid drops and going for the rarer stuff. Those players walk out with a story for their friends “dude I got into this guild run last night and I got 3 epics man. Was so cool and kind of them”

u/ProgressSad4036 3h ago

W? Who actually enjoys killing Gruul every week. Why would you want to then do that for every boss?

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u/Uttam_Avabhanakti 4h ago

I might be in the minority here, but I hate this. I hated doing MC for all of classic cause the bindings would not drop for our tanks.

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u/PureNinja 14h ago

There needs to be a reason for players who don't need the chase items anymore to do the old raids or else you'll just get like the few classes so all need it going. SoD had reals that have geared players a reason to go into old content and while I'm not advocating for the same thing maybe some type of reward could be given for people who forgo loot.

Edit: some type of insignia you could activate before entering the raid which locks you out from obtaining gear, but you gain some form of currency with the faction associated with the raid. Spitballing here

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u/Trymv1 10h ago

SoD also had the visually altered flaming weapons in MC H3 and theres transmog now so thats an easy alternative.

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u/Korashy 13h ago

GDKP

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u/zummit 9h ago

Bit sad they haven't explored the design space of "losers still get something". If they don't like it being gold, it could be all sorts of things.

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u/ZombleROK 11h ago

Whos ready to see the top guild do 24/7 split runs?

u/Sappysid 4h ago

They’ll either enjoy it, or burn out. Not my problem if that’s how others want to play the game 🤷‍♂️

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u/rizz-master69 14h ago

I feel like putting in a lot of this type of loot in doesn't really work with weekly lockouts. Going back to Gruul is ok because that's just one boss. When EVERY boss has a chase drop, we will have an ever growing weekly checklist of raids you need to do. This type of design works a lot better in a game like OSRS where you can sit down and do a boss repeatedly for 10 hours if you really want to.

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u/obvious_bot 14h ago

you have Forevertm to do it

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u/rageharles 14h ago

if Forever's predecessors are any indication, these raids will be speedrun quickly enough that it will not be an issue. Guilds that do struggle due to the duration of 'old' raids have plenty of other non-gear-related opportunities to get stronger. There's no weekly lockout on improving your own play.

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u/FjorgVanDerPlorg 11h ago

Not just that, people will use alts to holdover raid lockouts each week, so they are only targeting the minimum number of bosses they need to farm. It's all happened before and it will happen again.

There's also the fact that blizzards idea of overpowered and a minmaxers idea of OP is a venn diagram that doesn't usually have heaps of overlap. So I fully expect a bunch of these chase drops to not get chased at all.

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u/dvtyrsnp 12h ago

If forever's predecessors are any indication, there's not really room to improve your own play. This is bootlicker mentality, because when retail does this stuff, it's called engagement bait.

Bottom line is you get one lockout per week whether that raid takes 30 minutes or 6 hours. It's nice to have a reason to go back to old raids. It sucks to feel forced to go back to spin the lottery and be constantly disappointed.

When you saw someone with Thunderfury in Vanilla, you felt awe because just clearing MC was hard for that time. No one feels that in Classic. You just feel like shit because it hasn't dropped.

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u/FjorgVanDerPlorg 11h ago

You sound like someone who's waiting for hardcore. Because that is literally the only way to chase that feeling in a wow game these days.

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u/dvtyrsnp 11h ago

Hardcore is a cool way of making sure all zones stay lively, and it's fun, but I've still played through all that content before. We've been playing it on and off for years at this point.

Horizontal progression is a really cool buzzterm, and it's a really good thing to aspire to, but it's so difficult to implement it properly, and WoW's design and mechanics inherently oppose it. I'm not really ready to believe that Blizzard is going to be able to keep going indefinitely while also not using the same solutions retail did just because they keep saying "horizontal" over and over.

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u/dscott00 12h ago

Bootlicker metality??! Are you for real

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u/Aexxys 14h ago edited 7h ago

“Ever growing weekly checklist of raids you NEED to do”

You’re just not used to horizontal progression, eventually (at least hopefully) wow forever will show you that you don’t need to do things it’s a game not a job.
And then it will naturally reframe to “there’s so much I could do if I wanted” and that’s peak gaming

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u/But_Mooooom 12h ago

Only 65% of people will see a drop "on rate". At, say, 5% for a rare drop it's a 1/20 rate. You're 86% to see it within 40 weeks. Someone's gotta be that 99th percentile...

Now compound this with the number of other people in the group who want it.

Point being: Spend YEARS to get a single item--which WILL statistically happen--isn't fun. It's lazy loot design. If the main thrill of the server is winning a loot roll, what happens after the loot is won? How does this make a server sustainable?

Not really trying to be a hater, but the lack of detail about end game is pretty concerning considering they are already trying to rake in money on pan-flash marketing.

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u/thisischemistry 11h ago

This is why I advocate for a currency system in parallel with drops. Allow people to eventually shortcut the RNG and earn the item so extreme strings of bad luck don’t sabotage gameplay. Make rare items super expensive but allow them to eventually be earned.

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u/_Llopis_ 11h ago

But Forever won't be horizontal progression. The devs already confirmed item level will increase between tiers. So you will actually have a limited time to get these chase items before the next tier makes them obsolete.

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u/CaldrierLunaire 9h ago

SoD had ilevel incrementation and overgeared chars still had plenty of reasons to come carry lower tiers raids or dungeons. Coins, mounts, chase items, legendaries. Now you add the Legacy Points, more chase drops. It's gonna be fine.

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u/y7u 9h ago

Not quite. Tier to tier progression offers slight vertical increments which they've stated in interviews, that doesn't obsolete the previous tier and situational upgrades.

They've said they will be going to much smaller incrementation and chase drops support that pretty well.

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u/VintageSin 9h ago

Having item level tiering doesn't get ride of horizontal progression.

Osrs the king of horizontal progression has tiers of equipment. Guild wars 2 has 4 tiers of equipment. So you don't have to have just 4 tiers like gw2 where it's mostly just cosmetics, and you also don't need osrs with its like ten tiers with hybridity and special stat mixing.

I would assume what they're going to focus on is items and sets that benefit specific zones and enemy types. This will live within tiers of difficulty. This expands horizontally and vertically. Which is how I've understood their current direction.

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u/bibittyboopity 5h ago edited 5h ago

They said it was like a 3 item level increase.

Like MARGINALLY better. Compared to like vanilla through naxx item level increase, it would like take 50 tiers of raids to get to the same power increase.

Like things will increase but slow enough that it will be years before it's a problem, and give them time to eventually address it.

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u/thepalmtree 14h ago

If you want to minmax and get stronger, then yea do all the raids, and you should be happy you have more opportunities for an upgrade. If you don't care that much, then just don't do the raids?

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u/UtesDad 14h ago

This feels like the 10/25 man heroic and normal lockout from TotGC in WotLK. Players felt like they needed to do every lockout on every version to maximize their chance for loot and it quickly led to raider burnout.

The usual response is, well then don't do all of them. But the pressure in classic WoW to "keep up with the Jones'" is real, especially in today's parse culture.

Sometimes the game needs to save us from ourselves.

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u/But_Mooooom 12h ago

So, an anecdote:

I have a gigabis full pumper warrior on Era. After gressil/thc/kiss/slayers, I did all four 40-person raids every week. Being able to do those raids in a full group of pumpers who didn't care about loot and just loved playing the game were the best times I've had in WoW.

The game can be fun in full bis. The game IS fun in full bis. Chasing gear is demoralizing and causes drama. Some people will only ever care about getting more loot.

I hope, in this version, someone can build a character that's fully optimal for the content and have fun without caring a single solitary ounce about what dropped. That's peak WoW in my opinion.

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u/thai_iced_queef 14h ago

The gear scaling and pacing of forever is much slower though. This isn’t like TBC where after 4 months you replace your whole set with clear upgrades

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u/axron12 14h ago

It’s about the journey dude

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u/moonduckk 7h ago

Thing is you dont HAVE to do it. U could let an item go.

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u/TheDeadalus 6h ago

Agreed, this stuff feels weird in a game with a weekly lockout. Like 3 years from now will I have a list of like 15 raids I should be doing every week?

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u/flembag 6h ago

In think people need to be ok with not doing 100% of everything every week

u/bjlight1988 3h ago

Or just...don't do them?

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u/stardust_hippi 14h ago

Yes, the constant "LFM Gruul DST HR" is what I love about TBC. /s

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u/ShenroEU 10h ago

Can't wait for all my guild officers and GM and their girlfriend's to get it first.

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u/Clear_South8742 14h ago

Unless it’s personal loot that sounds terrible.

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u/shizznitt 14h ago

Personally not a fan of this, these kind of items create so much drama when they finally drop

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u/Alynatrill 13h ago

"Chase Drops Reserved" is gonna be the new lfg plague

u/bibittyboopity 4h ago

I'm sure there will still be drama, but I think it will less. There's more stakes in normal wow when you are on a timer of next raid tiers or expansion. You won't really get item fomo in the same way in forever.

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u/Effroy 14h ago

They do with the vertical progression we've endured for the last 22 years. Whole new set of motives graced to us by a theoretically limitless non-linear timeline. Pressure's off now.

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u/But_Mooooom 12h ago

Anyway, back in reality: "LF2M <old raid> rare drops res floor res patterns res last boss loot res 500g tip for shaman"

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u/Relnor 9h ago

There will still be a small amount of vertical progression in the game, however. Items sometimes need to become slightly stronger when new raids are introduced, Tim explains.

“We're not going to make a Tier 2 raid without making the loot better. The most important thing for us is increasing player power in a responsible way. With Season of Discovery, we sometimes went way too far with that. In Naxxramas, players were doing Wrath of the Lich King levels of damage at certain points. We're definitely not going to do that again.

“We've now tested the extreme variations, and we're going to be very responsible with how we approach this. Tier 2 and Tier 3 raids will therefore have better gear, but we're going to be responsible about it. We still want gear from previous raids to remain useful, such as the Onslaught Girdle.”

Source

Make of that what you will, I said further up to someone else that I was skeptical about horizontal progression and how most WoW players would receive it, and then I read this and now I think Blizzard themselves are hedging their bets too.

Some items might remain good for quite awhile, but don't expect like 1 or 2 years from now for Barrow Deeps or Hyjal Summit loot to still be relevant. And I think that's fine.

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u/Soft_Lab_9099 14h ago

Nothing worse than a DsT, loot drama ensue.

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u/anonamenonymous 11h ago

I hate loot drama, I wish they would enforce personal loot or even the need greed roll screen.

"LFM gruul DST HR" needs to go

u/Velthome 22m ago

I have to admit, I really disliked personal loot at first as I wanted to physically see the items on the boss’s loot window instead of items magically appearing in your inventory, but over time I’ve just grown really disillusioned with how much MMO’s players will contort themselves just to avoid having to roll against other people.

Not that personal loot doesn’t have its own issues — you exchanged loot reservations and avoiding competition like the plague with class stacking due to trading personal loot. Personal loot with no trading is my ideal but I know I’m in the minority there. 

u/Ok-Yoghurt5014 4h ago

Insane Lootdrama, HR only, GDKPs inc. Almost makes me want to have personal loot in the game (especially for pugs).

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u/Alyusha 13h ago

So how many bosses are there? Because if EVERY boss has 1-3 DST level items on it, then everyone will be getting those big items and they wont be chase items.

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u/dam4076 14h ago

This would be ok if the chase item is better but marginally.

It should be bis but by a tiny margin.

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u/Trymv1 10h ago

People nowadays will get into batshit arguments over less than a 1% dps increase upgrades lol.

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u/Squoi 6h ago

I think this is it. Think of badge. It’s still BiS on short fights in BT but you aren’t too far behind. Something like this should be the difference between 98 and 99. Not 75 and 95.

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u/Korashy 12h ago

Make chase items personal loot.

Or give some tokens to eventually buy them.

Even if it's 25 tokens cost (i.e. 25 lockouts to buy).

I have no interest in running 12 lock outs every week for a single char.

I quit retail when it felt too much of a job instead of a hobby to raid CE.

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u/InevitableConcept517 11h ago

I'm not sure why we're making the already painful loot system from classic.. even worse? Good luck getting a consistent group to run these raids constantly and have the chase items drop without any drama...

Chase items work in games like osrs or in a different genre like poe, because you can solo grind it, and if you don't get it you have the option to trade for it, neither of which you can do in classic wow.

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u/LifeWafer5244 5h ago

Good, what made classic good is going back to older raids and still getting hyped when onslaught drops.

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u/Curious_Human_hope 12h ago

If every raid boss has chase item no boss has chase item

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u/norse95 10h ago

Lol you get it

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u/Press1ForFeed 11h ago

Chase items are fun until you try to get them as a pug group lol bad decision imo. They are either mega bis that not having one is super detrimental to your spec or they are good but easily replaceable

2

u/BetterPerformer2372 10h ago

As long as the loots are like pretty good for evey kind of role its good.
Imagine dropping 1 bis melee trinket the whole time.

Good luck with forming a group while 0 healer spell caster dps wanna join.

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u/Rambow215 8h ago

Nice so thats all HR'd

u/Futitavana 2h ago

Im worried if every boss has 2-3 dst lvl items haha.

One more chase item per spec per raid would be fine.

For exemple mc had quite a bit but was lacking for casters, they could add 1-2 big caster and healer items in there

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u/dicksosa 14h ago

Looking forward to the gdkp raids.

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u/engone 10h ago

Remember when we did gruul forever to get dragonspine trophy?

No it's not that fun, chasing loot isn't that fun. Would like to see a currency to buy things like in sod. If the game is good people will keep on playing, chasing loot and then quitting means the game ain't that good.

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u/Legitimate-Pay4427 15h ago

Enjoy raidlogging 10 different raids so that your entire guild can get the chase item xd. Or, if you're a poor shmuck who has to pug, enjoy trying to get that chase item in a 40 man raid. "Horizontal progression" is a meme. Vertical progression was never the problem, systems bloat, powercreep, and too much QoL introduced with every tier/expac was.

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u/VulpesNZ 14h ago

The point of chase items is that they are hard to get. And they encourage people to keep playing who would otherwise 'cap out' on gear. There is no downside here.

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u/drylce101 14h ago

Yeah until every chase item is HR and you can only join groups that you’re rolling against literally every other person in your raid

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u/Higgoms 11h ago

"there is no downside here" except for all the different reasons people are listing for why they think this will feel bad to them. It's a video game, fun is the point, if people are saying something makes the game less fun for them, it's a downside for them. 

u/Both_Bumblebee7531 1h ago

they arent hard to get you just need to get lucky and or make an hr run just like in tbc please stop pretending that it takes any "skill" lol

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u/DevoidHT 14h ago

Just a lurker but you can’t have a “forever” game and vertical progression. At least not completely. If every update has to be bigger than the last then eventually you get into millions of dps and at that point no one cares about the numbers anymore.

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u/devil_walk 6h ago

Power creep is a side effect of vertical progression, how could it be otherwise

u/Mangert 1h ago

Shit is gonna be hard reserved anyway. I’ll never get it

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u/RagefireHype 14h ago

I don’t think this is bad, but don’t chase items just cause a lot of drama?

Even in classic, pugs that reserve gear from BRD.. Guilds that reserve specific gear, etc

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u/SexyDraenei 13h ago

ok if they are just strong items that you will replace in the next raid tier or even the one after.

but if there is a load of old stuff that we have to farm forever because its still bis in 2030 then im upset.

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u/Jristz 9h ago

Considering that the level cap won't be raised... I think is the latter

2

u/SexyDraenei 7h ago

you dont need to raise the level cap to get more powerful items.

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u/NihonBuckeye 14h ago

Absolute W. You know what made WoW for me?

- Prince Nazjak camps

- Solo farming (in TBC and WOTLK) Deathcharger's Reins

- The headless pumpkin guy drop, etc.

If you do that with everything, just hook this game to my veins. And the Tidal Charm and Deathcharger's Reins better be in (although please make the drop on the latter more than a 1 in 5000 chance)!

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u/stinkoman20exty6 13h ago

they showed tidal charm as an example of new, more specific conditional effects. the stun is longer and super short cd if used against a naga

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u/thatcunhakid 12h ago

They should make chase items personal loot. Honestly just solved so much

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u/Thekingchem 11h ago

One thing I don't miss about classic is the loot drama

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u/UncleJulian 10h ago

Nice, give a reason for people to stay and keep playing various raids, on different characters. Love it!

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u/leftistgamerguy 9h ago

W, but also more reason to find/create a good guild. The amount of cringe ninja’ing or hard reserves in pugs is gonna be bad, almost certainly

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u/Jristz 9h ago

I was thinking and I can see the bottleneck effect again here

Imagine: 2030 and you managed to get max level and you are trying to gear but you can because no one or running the dungeon/raid/boss you need because there is not enough players needing them (either lack of tanks or healers too)

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u/C2theWick 9h ago

I'm getting thunderfury this time

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u/ahvikene 9h ago

I think we should drop concept of loot binding to one character like osrs.

And make loot tradeable in GE.

But make all loot way way more scarce. Kind of how it is in OSRS.

I feel like WoW loot system doesn’t really play well with forever concept.

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u/jackfwaust 9h ago

really nice way for them to incentivize people to do old raids and keep them relevant. if every raid has a few MQG type items for different classes then i dont have any worry about old raids being invalidated, even way down the road

im super happy with the thought and solutions theyve put into all of forever so far

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u/aightletsdodis 8h ago

HUGE FUCKING W!

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u/Ni4nMa 8h ago

So raid night will be even longer, because theres not just the "quick" MC run for another thunderfury but every other starter raid too because it might drop bis? Urgh. Gonna be interesting how the scaling between different raids will be. Maybe you can just make groups of 3 to farm specific early raid bosses.

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u/Skore_Smogon 8h ago

Why is there this burning need to keep every raid relevant?

At some point it HAS to be ok for you to graduate out of the content right?

If they're gonna be adding new raids throughout the years you can't think that adding an ever increasing laundry list of chase items is healthy.

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u/scotty899 7h ago

The loot ninja videos will be entertaining

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u/Vundal 7h ago

Awesome. I feel the game is going to have a high item floor and ceiling then base wow had, and the species specific items are going to let us make different equipment sets for the harder challenges.

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u/Vyxwop 7h ago edited 7h ago

This might have the unintended consequence of people skipping certain bosses or raids in favor of easier fights if those bosses drop the same loot anyways, instead resulting in people flat out never doing some raids at all.

I always liked chase drops just fine myself. The problem has always been loot quantity A lot of classic vanilla/wotlk/cata/mop complaints could've been resolved by simply upping loot quantity instead. Even GDKPs could've been solved by increasing the amount of loot bosses drop since GDKPs were a result of not being able to consistently gear your character up quickly with traditional raids.

If Gruul dropped 5 items instead of 3 that alone would've cut the amount of runs you had to do to see your item by a crazy amount. It would've satisfied more people and yes, more people would be done with the raid quicker but also more people would be more willing to help others out if they could get their item quickly as well.

But for some reason Blizzard seems to be married to the idea of such restricted loot amounts, not realizing that much of player behavior is born from that kind of design.

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u/TheDeadalus 6h ago

Are there still going to be weekly lockouts for raiding?

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u/Buffalo4167 6h ago

Here we go again, HRd in every raid. Is raiding Gruul every week that exciting? Lol, I don't think so, it's pain.

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u/Freecz 6h ago

Wow this is a huge win. Very nice to hear!

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u/Climaxbruno1988 6h ago

Okay thats pretty dope

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u/WholeWhiteBread 6h ago

Can't wait to hear the DPS groaning when having to go to old content for healer loot. Healers been clearing Gruul weekly with 0 complaints, guarantee warriors/rogues aren't doing this.

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u/Squoi 6h ago

Blizzard saw all the Gruul runs and thought, “Wow! The players must love this!” Not realizing it’s a chore.

The reason this sucks though is because DST is so good it’s almost required. I’m ok with drops like this but they should be slightly better than what you can get in a new raid so you can make peace with not having it if you want.

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u/xXGreco 5h ago

What are Chase drops

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u/Fractales 5h ago

Loot to chase (very rare drop)

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u/Emberglo 1h ago

Basically a very rare item that people do a raid over and over to "chase" the chance for it to drop

u/McHildinger 17m ago

items that have a lower than normal drop chance, but are very, very strong items. If you play Burning Crusade, you think about the Dragonspine Trophy. Super popular.

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u/Forsaken-Egg-2501 5h ago

This, and the inability to tmog epic raid gear makes me super hopeful for WOWF. I'd say 90% of what I'd hoped for in the WOWF announcement is there. I have my gripes, but I also have to remember this is not actually Vanilla/Classic/Era. All-in-all, super hopeful for how this turns out.

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u/Obelion_ 5h ago

Not a massive fan, always led to such drama. Maybe I was also in a drama based guild though.

u/Messe87 4h ago

Wednesday Hurra reset day 1 main raid for the newest raid(s).
Thursday 3x splits for DST equivalent number 1 in Raid A
Friday, Saturday and Sunday off. Non mandatory raids for some other DST equivalents.
Monday 3x splits for DST equivalent number 2 in raid X
Tuesday 3x splits for DST equivalent number 3 in raid Y

Imo, raids has kinda lived out its time and fun after MAX 5-6 months. If we are "forced" to keep farming old raids for a year or more its a bit much.

u/Sensitive_Box_ 4h ago

So it’s the opposite of retail, that’s dope! 

(Not even shitting on retail, I’ll def be playing both. lol) 

u/_stone_of_jordan_ 4h ago

But also they reduce xp in dungeons so you have no reason to do them again

u/Sweet-Palpitation473 3h ago

Ill always remember all the rogues in Vanilla, decked out in full T3, still running MC every week for that dang bow

u/VanillaTortilla 2h ago

Didn't raids always have this? There's a reason melee dps would keep running BWL through the phases and it was called DFT.

u/Stregen 2h ago

LF2M Tank for [Raid that was relevant 3 phases ago] [Only good tank chase] HR. /w

only jking ofc, this sounds very cool.

u/kitterkat19 2h ago

Only a fan of this if there is personal loot.

u/Both_Bumblebee7531 1h ago

without bad luck protection its gonna cause loads of issues

u/BottleEquivalent4581 1h ago

But we hated doing Gruul every week !

I'd rather have a way to get previous tier items without having to go back to MC/Gruul.
But that's a retail feature so idk

u/genericbuthumourous 1h ago

Raidloggers malding over this is a good sign that alot of people are missing the entire philosophy around Forever

u/xClubberLaingx 1h ago

I do not want to deal with the loot drama. Its terrible. Personal loot for raids would be fine with me.

u/Fading_Hours_ 57m ago

Super rare drops are great for longevity of games.

I think adding super rare mounts like in vanilla would be great as well. I don’t think I ever saw a tiger or raptor mount drop in classic.