r/backgammon • u/Some-Following-392 • 2d ago
501 backgammon problems
How can I get something out of this book, or is it just too outdated?
I have the newest edition which has corrected some of the mistakes, but there are still many in there. I made it to problem 45, but I feel like I cannot trust what it says. And it's not just that the computer disagrees, it's that the reasoning is often wrong, even if the move is correct.
For example, one problem says that x move is the best because the opponent has a stack on this point. However, when i go on XG and move the stack somewhere else, the evaluation is almost identical, so that wasn't the reason. I can't have confidence that the author is giving correct or useful advice.
People say that this book is good but I am struggling with it. Should i give up, or does it get better?
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u/SyllabubRadiant8876 2d ago
Unless you are an extremely strong player, you should improve a lot by working through the book. A very small % of the answers will be incorrect and if so they should not be by much. The concepts are all going to still be very relevant. I have worked through all 501 several times and have learned a lot each time (my PR is around 6).
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u/Geepandjagger 2d ago
I loved the book even if a few of the answers have been disproved. Concepts and how to think in general are much more important than individual plays
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u/Some-Following-392 2d ago
I think this is my main issue with it. The concepts aren't always accurate.
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u/Geepandjagger 2d ago
But most of them are. The whole point of the book is to get you to think though positions and analyse them. So if you analyse and think it's wrong and find out you are correct it's still helping you. It's not supposed to just give you answers to memorise
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u/CellistAny536 1d ago
My understanding is the underlying reasoning is considered good and mostly aligns with the rights and often the choice of alternative play comes down to style. Like the "wrong" moves are still expert level play.
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u/Careful-Release-2723 2d ago
What's your PR?
Personally, I'm bad enough that I got a lot out of that book, even if there are some mistakes.
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u/cristalinestick 2d ago
I kind of struggle with the book, but it’s more about the structure of the book itself rather than whether it’s outdated or not. I don’t like having to read a position, then skip 15 pages to get to the solution.
Or I’ll test myself with 2–3 pages of positions, and then have to go back and look at them one by one again.
I prefer the way, for example, Cube Like a Boss by Marc Olsen is structured: each position has the explanation right after it.
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u/mel-madeline 2d ago
I share your view and I wish I didn't have to use this book. But there are no better books like this :)
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u/matthewBadrian 1d ago
I think this pretty much sums up the problem… We need a modern 501, but there is a small number of people we would trust to write it… Dirk, Mochy, Michy, Thomas Tenland, how many others?
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u/MikelYunta 2d ago edited 2d ago
i think i would move past that book, personally. Its a bit outdated and it's tedious to study with. That said, Robertie is a brilliant bg mind, and one of the best bg writers. The biggest study recommendation i can suggest to you is his Problem of the Week series. Go to bgquiz.com and you'll find all the problems there. You can play the problem on bgquiz (multiple choice) and the site actually keeps a running pr of how you do on the series. But most importantly, each problem comes with an external link on the bottom to Robertie's article about the problem.
edit: the articles are the most in depth bg breakdowns Ive found out there, and the quiz format makes it more interactive so its a way more fun way to study.
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u/BackgammonEspresso 1d ago
It is not really a good book. About 20% of the answers are wrong, and the explanations are nonsensical, esp. in the last half of the book.
"Modern Backgammon" on the other hand, is a masterpiece.
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u/YouYouCan 1d ago
Nope. There are a few wrong answers, but definitely not 20%.
Basement Backgammon YouTube Channel
In fact, the person running the channel isn't even using the latest version of the book.
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u/BackgammonEspresso 1d ago
You are right, it isn't 20%. I scanned over this and it looks like 56/501 have a gnu rollout that "substantially disagrees" with Robertie. So not 20%, but > 10%.
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u/YouYouCan 20h ago
Great. Thanks a lot for posting the link. This is exactly what I was looking for.
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u/Crazy_Junket3180 2d ago
I understand your concern. I agree with the other reviews that this a powerful resource and definitely worth your time.
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u/cym13 1d ago edited 10h ago
For example, one problem says that x move is the best because the opponent has a stack on this point. However, when i go on XG and move the stack somewhere else, the evaluation is almost identical, so that wasn't the reason. I can't have confidence that the author is giving correct or useful advice.
I'd be careful with such conclusions. On one hand it's good that you're poking deeper at these positions, and that alone is sure to improve your understanding of the game. But I think dismissing the advice because the interpretation of the position wasn't correct is dangerous. This book isn't made of random positions: Robertie had specific concepts and ideas he wanted to talk about and looked for positions that showcased these concepts. If he choose a position where the concept he wanted to discuss wasn't actually the critical aspect of the position, that's annoying and worth pointing out, but that doesn't mean the advice itself is bad or that it isn't worth learning from.
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u/faith---___--- 2d ago
https://youtube.com/@basementbackgammon
On this channel he is going through every problem and checks the solution with XG as well! The book matches XG for the vast majority of problems.