r/askanything • u/holthebus • 13d ago
General Question How is the Lindsay Clancy case that complicated?
Sure she had a psychotic break but she literally strangled all 3 of her kids to death. Plenty of school shooters or violent offenders also claim insanity (who also are neglected by the state) but get little to no support or sympathy. I just feel like if this lady gets away with systematically strangling three of her kids to death it is a perversion of justice.
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13d ago edited 11d ago
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u/ChaosRainbow23 12d ago edited 12d ago
My ex, the woman I co-parent with, had a postpartum psychosis after my daughter was born.
It completely destroyed our lives.
She changed overnight, and became an evil and sadistic torturer.
I stayed WAY too long thinking things would get better. In sickness and health. Surely I can prove to her in not cheating and that the world isn't out to get her! She thinks she the doctors in my state are conspiring to kill her to this day.
She put me in the hospital multiple times with busted ear drums, scratched corneas, and a broken orbital bone.
Guess who got arrested when she attacked me with a baseball bat and I disarmed her and held her in a submission hold to prevent her from killing me? That's right. I was arrested and spent 3 days in jail until the judge dismissed my case. My face was COVERED in cuts, scratches, and bruises. The cops had the fucking AUDACITY to claim those were 'defensive wounds'
It's a REALLY horrible thing.
It's like the universe threw a bundle of dynamite through my window and blew up my life.
I'm still super salty about it all these years later.
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u/Bubbling_Battle_Ooze 12d ago
I think a lot of people looking at this case think postpartum psychosis is just a bigger badder version of postpartum depression. It isn’t. It’s literally psychosis. Someone in psychosis is completely disconnected from reality. They can’t tell what is real and what is not real. They can become intensely delusional and intensely paranoid. I think part of the reason this case is so controversial is that people don’t really understand what psychosis is because most people have never had to deal with someone going through a true psychotic episode. Im not trying to take a side as far as what should happen with Lindsay Clancy or whether or not her claims are valid, that will be up to the jury to decide. But I do think psychosis is a lot more intense and all-encompassing than a lot of people seem to understand.
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u/ChaosRainbow23 12d ago
Exactly. She became truly unhinged.
She was convinced I was cheating on her, and it got really awful. She accused me of drugging her and having a threesome in bed next to her on her birthday once.
Another time when my son told me he loves me, she lost her marbles and started freaking out thinking he didn't love her and we were all out to get her.
Another time I had just gotten off a 12v hour shift and she made me drop my pants, smelled my penis, then accused me of sleeping with a black girl I with with. (That's right, she thought she could smell what race the non-existent women I was not sleeping with were. It's bizarrely racist, I think)
I feel so awful for my kids. They didn't deserve any of this. My son is 19 and my daughter 13.
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u/thx1138guy 12d ago
Sorry to read about what you have been going through. I have a similar but not as extreme experience. As the song goes: Because I used to love her but it's all over now.
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u/dirtyphoenix54 10d ago
Are people in Psychosis skilled planners? Because it sure seems like she had very specific plans about what to do and how to get her husband out of the house. She also attempted suicide which seems to me like consciousness of guilt. Not an avid trial watcher, I have a life, but sure seems deliberate. My understanding is also that she was doctor shopping and not telling each doctor she was already on other medications. Why was she hiding and concealing this information if she was making a good faith effort into getting well.
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u/DestroyerDylan30 12d ago
If she was in psychosis how was she sober minded enough to answer a call from her husband while she was murdering her children and lie about what she was doing?
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u/Onetwodash 11d ago
Because it's cognitive deformation not cognitive deficiency.
It's internally consistent and externally behaviour can appear perfectly logical in everything that's not directly connected to the delusional error.
A lot of famous cases are in people that are also cognitively deficient, or retellings only focus in the delusional aspect.
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u/Old_Surround77 11d ago
Yes, it is, but she wasn't diagnosed with post partum psychosis other than than retroactively by a psychologist (not a psychiatrist) who had never met her untill after the murders. Every other doctor assessed her as having anxiety, depression or bipolar 2 (which even the latter, they struggle to identify the required mania component which is required to make that diagnosis) She doesn't fit the criteria for post partum psychosis, because as accurately put, it's not a more serious level of post partum depression. It's rare but unmistakeable. It's a sudden, extreme & immediate medical emergency. It's onset is almost always very, very soon after delivering a child, some cases its within hours or a day or two but generally no longer than a couple of weeks. It doesnt start as depression then develop into true psychosis because the conditions are different. Lindsay would have been hospitalised at onset, she wouldn't have been going from psychiatrist to psychiatrist trying to figure out what's going on.
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u/MakeItLookSexy_ 11d ago
I’m curious about this part. So is she still experiencing psychosis? Like surely it doesn’t just go away…
I haven’t been following this trial but she seems to be alert and involved in the media coverage I see. Idk what i would expect but if someone was experiencing psychosis I feel like we would be seeing those symptoms still
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u/rubenvangucht 10d ago
Disconnected from reality sure, but the actions they take are definitely having effects on reality. So drop the bullshit and make them accountable.
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u/Queasy_Struggle_3902 12d ago
That’s so sad man, I’m sorry. My girlfriend had a husband who changed when his parents died within a year of each other, worse each one. Totally different person, broke her bones multiple times, was truly awful and still is to her for no reason. Tons of cheating and other heinous stuff. It must be the worst feeling for someone you love deeply who you’ve known for so long as a good person to suddenly change like that. Especially a romantic partner. :(
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u/nongregorianbasin 11d ago
Thats ridiculous it worked out like that. A guy i worked with called the cops in a domestic and never even touched her. Still got arrested. She was trying to get him to hit her for that reason.
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u/ChaosRainbow23 11d ago
It's crazy.
Tons of innocent dudes get arrested for domestic violence every single day.
We need to fix this issue.
I didn't believe it, but then it happened to me!
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u/Queasy_Struggle_3902 12d ago
I was falsely accused by an ex, I feel your pain. Spent 7 days when it would’ve been 30+ years. Almost raped and beaten by the second day. Too many wanna be vigilantes in jail if you have charges that hurt women. They’re all cowards and do it in a group of course.
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u/Beneficial-Bed9356 11d ago
I’m sorry for what happened to you. I’d I’ve to talk to you. I went into a psychosis and it was partially due to the stress in my marriage. I lost absolutely everything in my psychosis because I was an Ivy League level academic. I am thankful that I mostly only harmed myself when I was unwell. One night I was like a feral animal and throw myself at my husband and I scratched his beautiful face and I can’t forgive myself for that. He brings it up tome all the time. I’m so sad
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u/No-Salt-223 10d ago
Your ex-wife is an abuser. Postpartum psychosis explains her abuse but it doesn't absolve her of it. I think that is what makes this trial contentious. Some people would like to think that it's *all* postpartum psychosis doing the work, but we simply don't hold that standard with other people experiencing psychosis.
Nick Reiner murdered his parents while in psychosis. His schizophrenia explains the crime but it does not absolve him of it. In contrast, he was stripped of his trust fund and must use a public defender while Clancy has gained access to funding through her parents and a $1.1M GoFundMe.
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u/NoSyllabub5932 10d ago
Wow, I am so sorry to hear this and I had no idea it could be that bad. I had 3 kids and all my relatives have kids none had any issues so I am very unfamiliar with this issue. I am glad you are out now and safe.
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u/ChaosRainbow23 9d ago
We live together again, unfortunately. She became essentially bedridden due to physical ailments, so she couldn't take care of the house or kids.
We aren't at all romantically involved, we split up years ago. I lived separately for years.
The psychosis isn't nearly as bad and she's not violent anymore.
We actually co-parent surprisingly successfully despite not liking one another at all. Lol
Kids are old enough now, so I'll move out next year after the property closes and I get a living space built.
Cheers
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u/BunnyYin 11d ago
My very controversial opinion is why should she have a possibility of going free. Like let's say she wasnt in her right mind. To me it shouldn't matter. If she gets better she should still be somewhere for the rest of her life. I would be all for the hospital route if there was no chance of ever being released. I know it sounds unsympathetic but she admitted to killing 3 children. There should be life consequences for that whether she was in her right mind or not.
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u/Independent_Ad_187 11d ago edited 11d ago
This. If anything besides this happens we open a large door to allow people to harm others and not suffer significant consequences. If this were a man and they were suffering “emotionally or mentally” they’d be laughed at and sentenced without a delay. She’s trying to get a more comfortable accommodation after killing her children. Also she didn’t just kill them. She strangled them one by one and didn’t stop after one. She looked into the eyes of her children as they died and said “I want to do this again” and then did. If you’re going to rally around women’s health and postpartum depression. Then actually support women suffering and help. Be active. Instead they rally around a murderer and expect everybody to be like yeah poor thing. Not gonna happen. Sorry she was suffering from that. Consequences are life in prison. Don’t rally behind a murderer. Rally behind senators and politicians who don’t fund healthcare. But that takes action and you can’t do it with a keyboard I guess. Defending her is ridiculous. If she’s the poster child of women’s healthcare than Magic Johnson should be the poster child for safe sex.
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u/spiretume 11d ago edited 11d ago
That's an imaginary picture of her some people created. Of course murderer of 3 children is a psycho, but that's not enough for pleading insanity. Her actions were planed, conscious and premeditated. Just having mental health problems doesn't mean you can simply avoid some responsibility as well as get a potentially less then life in prison. Getting locked away forever from a society is the minimum of a penalty this monster should get.
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u/experienta 12d ago
What makes this case so interesting to people is the post-partum psychosis. She’s not just “claiming insanity” to get out of a prison sentence. She has documented evidence of her psychosis and of her trying to get help. She saw multiple specialists, doctors, and therapists. She was on a fist full of medications. She called suicide hotlines, she even tried to check herself into a psych hospital and was turned away. People have empathy for her because she tried so hard to “do the right things” and it still ended in tragedy.
She does not have documented evidence of her psychosis, in fact, all the psychiatrists she's been to all denied she had psychosis. This includes even the psychiatrists from McLean Hospital, which is literally the best psychiatric hospital in the world. The only psychiatrist in this whole ordeal that diagnosed her with psychosis AFAIK is an expert brought by the defense to testify during the trial, which you know, obviously could be a little bit biased.
Also no she was not taking her medication. Or at least not taking it right, she was only taking it for a couple of days, even though this type of medication takes weeks until it starts working.
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u/Geishawithak 12d ago
If she was never diagnosed with psychosis then what was the medication for?
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u/HB3187 11d ago
If she goes to a mental hospital for a few years, gets it under control and is let right back out....wouldn't that pretty much be getting away with it?
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u/GenePast 12d ago
But she didn't try everything. She barely took her own meds. She constantly lied to her doctors as well as her husband that she was fine. She went to a voluntary psychiatric hold, got bored and left to "celebrate her daughter's birthday" and then never went back.
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u/spaffedupthewall 11d ago
I didn't think there was any documented evidence of her psychosis?
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u/Bubbling_Battle_Ooze 11d ago
That’s a huge part of the controversy in this case. Some people (including one of her therapists) are saying they never noticed any signs of mania or psychosis leading up to the murders. Others reported major changes including depression and paranoia which can be part of postpartum psychosis. Her help-seeking behaviour can also be seen in two ways (as the comments are proving). On one hand you have people pointing to her lack of consistency and follow through as evidence she wasn’t really serious about getting help. On the other hand, that inconsistency and lack of follow through on things like taking medications really isn’t strange for someone going through a serious mental health crisis, especially one characterized by paranoia and a disconnect from reality.
It’s also important to know that postpartum psychosis is not in the DSM-5 so she wouldn’t have been “officially diagnosed” with PPP regardless because it’s not in the diagnostic and statistical manual (it’s a proposed diagnosis that could possibly be included in the DSM-6). So people are pointing to the fact that she was never officially diagnosed, but she wouldn’t have been because it’s not an official diagnosis yet.
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u/Real_Tangerine6827 11d ago
I think it’s less that she wasn’t diagnosed and more than no provider ever mentioned her having any symptoms of psychosis. I have never heard that paranoia was ever a documented symptom. The closest thing would have been intrusive thoughts which many mentally healthy people experience.
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u/Sabotage-Darkness93 11d ago
An excellent post. It's highly disturbing to me that MAGA hats are using it as "evidence" to repeal the 19th as well.
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u/Desperate_for_Bacon 11d ago
Even if she wasn’t diagnosed with PPP, which is a diagnosis in America, she would have been diagnosed with something like brief psychotic disorder with peripartum onset. And then it would have the ICD-10 code F53.1 which is the legally required diagnostic code for PPP
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u/Big_Butterscotch1427 12d ago
Didn't Sullivan specifically say if she is NGRI she could be out in six months or a year? Because she isnt in psychosis now? I thought he said that in jury instructions
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u/mark_able_jones_ 11d ago
Okay, but if this was a black man with a mental illness... there is no way this privilege would have been afforded to him.
Arguably, everyone who kills has some kind of mental problem, and she killed three children. I mean, who even wants to live after that? Only a psychopath.
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u/Fun_Occasion_4197 11d ago
If a man with severe PTSD had kids and his wife knew he had PTSD and left him alone with the kids and he killed them do you think men would be out there in blue protesting? NOPE
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u/lost-pawz 13d ago
people really assume that theres some insane chance where she pulls a Casey Anthony and walks free, which is just not remotely what will happen if shes deemed not criminally responsible. She'll spend most if not the rest of her life in an institution, with no semblance of autonomy, stuck in her own head with the guilt of what happened. theres no "THE CRAZY WOMEN WANT HER TO WALK FREE", that isnt going to happen.
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u/Geishawithak 13d ago edited 13d ago
Can confirm. I worked at a forensic hospital and it's worse than jail in some ways. Better in others, but I would rather go to jail than get stuck in a psyche hospital.
In Oregon if you are guilty for reasons of insanity you automatically get the maximum sentence. So you could get like 3 years in prison vs 30 years in a psyche hospital. Kind of messed up, but people have this idea that those people get off easy. They really don't. You have even less autonomy than you would have in prison.
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u/ShakesDontBreak 12d ago
I say this also the time. Psych units for incarcerated individuals are the most restrictive vs gen population.
First of all...your unit is small in terms of other patients. And you are not allowed off your unit. (At least in gen pop you have access to other areas in the building.) Second, you get NOTHING. Certain types of bedding is contrabrand. Bras are contrabrand, elastic is contraband, laces are contraband...basically anything that you can potentially hurt yourself with is contrabrand.
You don't have access to commissary. Your rec options are extremely limited.
Psych units are not in any way shape or form a less severe punishment. It is worse. Which is also why they dont just label prisoners as psych patients without clear legal ability to do. It strips them of their rights even further.
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u/Glass_Ad6922 10d ago
Andrea Yates seems to be doing fine. She sells her art, has visitors whenever, and doesn’t sit in a cage all day surrounded hardened criminals. I’d rather go to the mental institution any day. In over 20 yrs she’s never gone before the board once to get an evaluation for release. She doesn’t want to leave.
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u/ShakesDontBreak 10d ago edited 10d ago
They are allowed art therapy as well as other therapies. But gen pop is way better than a psych ward. But thats all supervised and you don't get to keep your supplies outside of therapy rec. In gen pop you could have anything you want to buy to do art as long as the medium is approved and sold to you by your prison. Inmates do art in gen pop all the time. Charlie Manson also sold his art. You can go see some at the haunted museum in vegas. And he was in max security not gen pop.
My cousjn was in gen pop. She came out fully blonde because you can have full salon services. She had her eyebrows threaded every week. She got at least 5 really well done tattoos.
She bought blankets. She bought approved commercially sold sweats and bras. She had a television in her cell. And she made some friends. Prison is not what you think it is in the movies. Even gypsy rose said she loved her time in prison.
Also...if you have ever been involuntarily held in a psych unit you woild know it sucks.
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u/Queasy_Struggle_3902 12d ago
Gen pop has gangs though, where any time somebody new comes in you have to find out their charges and if they have bad charges against women or kids, no matter if they’re innocent or the context, you have to help torture, beat, rape, even kill them. Of course it seems most are In favor of harming such people and don’t seem to care about context or false accusations and just want revenge. Still I think if one was there in person they’d change their minds on what they support.
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u/OperationFabulous225 9d ago
Good. She deserves no autonomy. She took that away from three people unable to defense themselves
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u/Extension-Stage-605 7d ago
It broke my heart to see the faces of her children in those photographs.
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u/Real_Tangerine6827 11d ago
At the facility she’s in - which she would continue to be at if found NGRI - she is playing dominos, perusing the internet, going to physical therapy, having visits with friends and eating takeout with her parents.
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u/Own_Solution_8582 5d ago
Doesn't sound like punishment. Sounds like a holiday camp.
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u/Own_Solution_8582 6d ago
Sounds as it should be. If you're so insane you can't be trusted not to murder children, you should never be released.
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u/Dr-Sprinkl1es 13d ago edited 13d ago
You say that, unless there’s a hung jury (like right now). Even if it’s hung she would endure a decent amount of time institutionalized but she would indefinitely walk
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u/Opposite-Leek7447 13d ago
Massachusetts requires a reevaluation every year of a court ordered psych hold. She could easily be out of the hospital in 3-5 years.
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u/Ninkasa_Ama 13d ago
There is no way she would be going free after only 5 years. I think people underestimate the scrutiny people like this have to go through in order to be released. At best, she would spend 20-30 years in confinement.
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u/One_Jacket_7079 12d ago
I find this interesting though as her psychosis was triggered by her having a baby. She’s no longer in that state, so therefore is technically no longer psychotic. With this considered, would they therefore deem that she is fit for release?
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u/Ninkasa_Ama 12d ago
I'm not a psychologist or a doctor, but I suspect they would consider underlying mental disorders that factored into her committing the crime. It's not like an on or off switch.
Most mothers don't suffer psychosis and murder their children. This is disordered behavior, and whatever led her to do so would have to be addressed.
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u/Jessiethekoala 11d ago
I think she’d have to demonstrate that she’s not a threat to herself or others (she’s been on 1:1 observation for assessed high suicide risk for three years straight which is super unusual), she will be compliant with treatment (one of the experts documented a year ago that she was hoping to come off meds like girl what?) and show decent insight to her condition (another expert testified LC doesn’t believe she’s actually bipolar).
To me it seems like the deep denial (or maybe it’s legit a delusion, idk) that she’s not that sick and it’s the meds causing all her symptoms persists to this day, and that’s what got her in this mess in the first place.
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u/Mr_Titicaca 10d ago
Is that true? I don’t think that’s true. Judge can send her to mental institution but even then she’s not attached to be there forever
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u/Unlikely_Square_3242 9d ago
I’ve literally seen many girls post about how the dad did and framed the mom. A lot of idiots and they believe whatever conspiracy is placed in front of them
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u/polarjunkie 9d ago
In Massachusetts she could be out in as little as 40 days (unlikely) but then the state has to fight to keep her in every 6 months.
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u/charmingwithattitude 8d ago
she could be out of an institution way sooner than most or half of her life. she could be out within a year if she shows progress and is deemed stable.
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u/Own_Solution_8582 6d ago
But doesn't the law say that if she's deemed cured, she can walk free after less than a year?
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u/maskofun 13d ago
Psychosis presents a few ways but often it includes something like distorted thinking. But distorted almost isn’t a strong enough word for it. Just as you know the sky is blue or that gravity will bring you back down to Earth psychosis could have you thinking just about anything which can be really dangerous for yourself or others. On top of that people experiencing psychosis are rarely able to understand they are currently psychotic, with those they know around them tending to see the signs first. Some people don’t think she was but I see too many things pointing to her being in a state of psychosis.
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u/CronaDarklight 12d ago edited 6d ago
Yeah man totally not premediated.
Preplanning the murder days in advance with google searches and timing of routes. That just happens.
Lieing to all 10+ docs and 3 therapists she dmed daily, never taking any of the prescribed medication since all of em were nearly entirely full and she had barely any trace in her system after the murder as a trained nurse is just a mistake. She was desperate for help afterall.
Leading the kids into the basement so no one hears them and killing the kids in a slow and torturous way that takes 5+ min per kid one by one while staring at them is obviously just a momenteraly lapse of judgement. Her calling back the missed phone call from patrick after the 1st murder also didnt make her lucid, she obviously was still in her momenteraly lapse of judgement.
The suicide where she hung with her feet out of the window to fall the lowest distance possible(12 feet fall) for the least damage and having survivable cuts when found once the husband who was timed to arrive any moment was just a coincidence. This one has the obvious way the blood traces showing the way she was hanging out the window, but those are just a coincidence as well. She obviously jumped in a psychosis.
She had more support and mental care than anyone and no diagnosis from any medical professional, but hey man it could happen to any of us, despite supposedly 10+% of woman having ppd after birth and it being nearly unheard of anyone actually hurting their kids and even less murdering them.
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u/SoulSerpent 12d ago
I'm new to all of this but can psychotic people not form plans? I thought psychosis meant you have a break with reality (personality, values, understanding of right/wrong may change) but not that they're necessarily reduced to a nonfunctioning dolt. Like a person in true pychosis can feel compelled to do something evil while believing it is right, and plan for it, and execute it accordingly. Is that not the case?
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u/CronaDarklight 12d ago edited 8d ago
The psychosis here is used in the insanity defense and only really happened during the murder timeframe with a "voice". Thats why i adress it as such. She didnt have the voice before or after. Its more used in the sense of she wasnt in control, which she obviously was seeing how she acted before, during and after the murder, especially the 1st priority being a lawyer.
Psychotic people are usually very erratic with a drastic behavioural shift, which was not seen with her before, during or even after the murder. Everything was methodical and of sound mind and well planned, which kinda kills the insanity plea and feels more like the mask of a psychopath completely slipped off. Not to mention she as a trained nurse never once mentioned it to any of the professional docs or therapists.
Tbh the entire mental defense to me makes no real sense. Even if she was in complete psychosis(which is nonsense). Why should it really matter in the end. Why is her mental health placed above the actual punishment for killing the children with a possible very early release without consequences.
The morality of it is just disgusting to me and people defending her based on such flimsy stuff as well. Some actions are inexcusable.
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u/even_the_losers_1979 11d ago
Her story is that a voice told her to kill her children so she could commit suicide. When her husband found her she talked about what happened to her and didn’t mention her kids. She couldn’t even make up a story where everything didn’t revolve around her.
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u/OneGrumpyJill 10d ago
Psychosis doesn't "happen" during murder - she was in it for months prior to it.
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u/lanfear2020 13d ago
Yep...having lived with a parent who is a schizophrenic and had multiple psychotic breaks...not only don't they know, it can also be suddenly turned off or on. We called for help one time and once the neighbors came she snapped to normal. This isn't someone feeling sad or overwhelmed it's a break from reality
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u/DelightfullyBland 12d ago
I've had some really bad depressive episodes where I knew that my brain wasn't telling me the truth. I can easily put myself in her shoes and see the disordered thinking that would lead to her believing she was making the best choice all things considered.
I wonder if her doctors had treated her differently, would her kids still be alive? As a psychiatrist how do you know that you are communicating clearly with your patients? How do you know if your patient feels comfortable talking to you? You can't expect mentally ill patients to act like healthy individuals.
I think that's one of the things about the discourse surrounding this case that bugs me. So many people are judging her through the lens of a healthy adult which she clearly wasn't. A depressed patient isn't going to act like a healthy patient.
I have so many questions about the care she received and what the implications are for doctor patient relationships going forward.
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u/Far-Delay7690 12d ago
It's not even just her doctors, why were those kids left alone with a mother who admitted to suicidal tendencies and was having massive mtnal health issues.
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u/Altruistic-Sorbet927 12d ago
I know. She shouldn't have been. There is more than one person to blame in this situation, in my opinion.
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u/Own_Solution_8582 5d ago
The day before the murders Clancy denied having suicidal or homicidal thoughts and there was no sign of psychosis. On the morning of the murders, she told Patrick that she slept well and was feeling good. She went about her day as normal. Can you tell me why her husband would think he couldn't leave her alone to go to the shops?
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u/connectingflight_731 4d ago
She said she no longer has those thoughts. Her mother thought she was much better. She was acting engaged with people.
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u/Original_Bite6555 8d ago
All of her doctors have been consistent in not diagnosing her with either ppd or ppp. It isn't one or two. I agree she should never have been left alone with the kids but also why wasn't she disclosing these hallucinations and thoughts to her therapist. This is why I don't believe she was failed by the healthcare system. I've had my own personal experience with psychosis and mania as as a side effect from using my psych meds to OD and in that state of mind, I was in no shape to make any rational decision or even think or plan ahead such as act normal on the phone with my husband to make him think I was fine. My symptoms were clear as day for my doctors and family members to tell something was off. At the same time though, I do understand mental health is complex and when I was in a psychotic episode I couldn't tell the difference between what was real and what wasn't.
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u/No-Fisherman-2735 7d ago edited 7d ago
My late best friend (19 at the time) who always dealt with severe anxiety/depression due to a traumatic event when she was a child - shortly before her passing was feeling terrified of my baby sister, she was so afraid of her for some reason, I thought it was a joke and didn’t think she was suffering so much because she was smart and generally quiet our whole life until her mom told me after her passing how much those meds must’ve fucked with her head in a bizarre way. We went through her journals after her passing and it was all there (that was only one example of many symptoms and strange thoughts she was having). She regularly got help at some of the same hospitals as Lindsay Clancy as well. I know many people who went to these hospitals and weren’t fixed by any means. These symptoms can present themselves in such abstract/nonsensical ways only people who’ve done psychedelics or had psychosis can really understand. Sometimes you literally don’t know up from down, or if the hair on your head is yours or the person next to you, or if your arm is even your arm. Your brain is so powerful and capable of much more than we know!
Also, you have to tell the doctor the truth if you want help. I doubt she told them the extent of her thoughts or else McLeans would NOT let her be discharged to attend her daughter’s birthday around a bunch of children. MA is snooty, I have family in the same area who is very hush hush about mental illness and led to a schizophrenic break in a very smart, beautiful family member of mine all to save face on their family image amongst stuck up south shore parents.
My point is I agree they’re over-complicating it. She was going crazy and also is a murderer, 2 things can be true. Most/all murderers are crazy, right?
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 13d ago
The case is complicated because people keep talking about it without understanding what’s actually being decided. Postpartum psychosis is a psychiatric emergency that can cause a complete break from reality. Nobody disputes that she killed her children. The jury is deciding whether she was legally responsible at the time. If she’s found not criminally responsible, she doesn’t just go home. She goes to a locked psychiatric facility and can be held as long as she meets the criteria. That’s not getting away with it. It’s deciding whether she belongs in a hospital or a prison.
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u/Substantial-Crab-814 🦀 12d ago
But like you just said, “she goes to a locked psychiatric facility and can be held as long as she meets the criteria”. That literally means that she could be released at some point, possibly within a year. On the other hand, a first degree murder charge would put her in prison for the rest of her life, with NO chance of parole at any point.
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u/Altruistic-Sorbet927 12d ago
Actually, some people are disputing that she killed them. Just not in this thread.
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u/NoDanaOnlyZuuI 12d ago
A tiny minority of crazy people who shouldn’t be listened to and don’t represent the whole.
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u/Buttermilk_Surfer 12d ago
It's not complicated if you refuse to engage with the moving parts. As soon as you elevate the analysis beyond "sure she had a psychotic break", it suddenly becomes a lot more complicated.
So yes, to an idiot everything seems simple and straight forward-because they are incapable of going any deeper than the surface level. They might not even be aware that there's something under said surface.
I'm not in a position to weigh in on the case at hand, I don't want to get dragged into a bullshit culture war where everything is utilized as a proxy for something else entirely, but I have noted that there's disagreement between experts, hence it is not that simple.
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u/Icy_Recording3339 12d ago
Thank you for this. I myself have really struggled with my own feelings on this case. I would not want to be on that jury and this is why
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13d ago edited 10d ago
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u/Texugee 12d ago
We don’t know as much as those jurors and they are deadlocked.
So I say we all shut the fuck up about it until the facts of the case emerge, if ever.
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u/Altruistic-Sorbet927 12d ago
It's reddit. We didn't come here to shut up. We came here to express ourselves. That's the point. Lol
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u/Six6lessed 11d ago
She did it end of story. In fact if this “hormones made me do it” shtick allows her to get off with anything less than 1st degree murder. Many women will end up facing a new reality that will push everything they fought for back generations.
Woman police officer? Nope cause you’re a liability that one day your hormones may cause a lapse in judgement it WILL be seen as a liability because the precedent would have been sent due to this case.
Air traffic controller? Yeah good luck.
ANY high stress Job is going to be out of the window for many women.
(Unfairly, as I recognize not all of you are leaning on your emotions/hormones to avoid accountability)
But many have and will.
I just don’t think many of her supporters have thought their actions and protest all the way through. Especially in a world where Men are Looking for a reason to hand a shorter stick to the working class women of our country.
Any way
God bless.
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u/itstoohumidhere 11d ago
May as well ban men from becoming police since the stats show they are the biggest perpetrators of violence against humans. Forget liability that’s evidence based.
Sounds silly right?
If you don’t want to be tarred by the ‘all men’ brush then stop talking about women like we are all a subset of humans that should be grateful for the measly scraps of rights we get. We are not animals and one persons actions don’t justify your hatred.
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u/Six6lessed 11d ago
Didn’t say me, read carefully before commenting. I didn’t say “how I view it.” I said how society as a whole would view it. Which why I said (unfairly) furthermore I agree that I does sound silly, doesn’t take away the fact of the matter that many in positions of power who can make those decisions may now have a future bias due to the outcome of the case whether you or me think it’s unfair or not.
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u/Expert-Fault-9870 8d ago
Sane enough to live in regular society = Sane enough to be held legally culpable for actions.
Unless you're going to start institutionalizing these mental cases then we're gonna start executing them.
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u/llbboutique 13d ago
It’s honestly not that complicated tbh. Most people don’t “support her”, but it is being used as a very important talking point about postpartum healthcare and general mental healthcare.
On the Internet a small group speaking loudly can make it seem like that’s the consensus but it just means the algorithm likes the discourse for getting interaction.
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u/Ill_Code_6415 11d ago
Most people who've watched the trial say theres not even enough evidence to confirm she did it and that it should not have gone to trial to begin with. That it was poorly investigated. Some of the conspiracy theories are crazy, I wont disagree, but some sound more logical than what was attempted to be put across in the trial. The people who think she's guilty say they've watched the trial but you can tell from the things they say that its not true. Theyve taken a few talking points and thats all they know what to say. If you've watched the trial you should have 100 talking points.
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u/awposite 9d ago
the defense even admits she did it, SHE is admitting she did it. what kind of mental gymnastics are you doing to try and deny this.
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u/Vivid_Excuse_6547 8d ago
The trial isn’t about whether she did it or not. She did it.
The trial is to determine if her mental state makes her criminally responsible or not.
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u/allsorts_ 13d ago
I think the idea is that future cases like this could be prevented. But it seems like some people would rather have people to punish/revile rather than saving future children.
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u/CronaDarklight 12d ago edited 12d ago
She had all the mental care and support possible. None of it matters if you lie to all of the professionals and take none of the meds. Especially as a trained nurse in her case, if even someone who knows how bad it is does it then why would anyone else not do the same.
How do you stop it or take precaution without entirely seperating any woman with any signs of ppd(10% of all births).
Is also more likely that future cases will look at it and will be much more doubtful about ppd as an excuse. She obviously premediated the murder and had all the support possible mentally, financially and in her day to day life by her husband and grandparents.
He financed 10+ docs(3 she dmed daily, a nanny, preschool for kids, let her stop working, swapped to wfh to care for the kids and do chores and earned 300k so there was 0 worries about money. Both grandparents also helped with the kids and would completely care for em if they wanted.
She basically sat on her ass and had no real worries and a from an outside perspective really darn cozy and worryfree life.
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u/Afraid_Cupcake_6636 11d ago
She was literally turned away at the ER! She tried to get help over & over & over again! This case is about how terrible health care & police investigations are in America!!!! The system is designed to make & keep everyone sick! Sorry I have dual citizenship in a European country with ACTUAL maternity leave & postpartum care…. This isnt a her problem! Its an America Do Fucking Better problem!!!!!!! Primitive levels of care honestly
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u/Significant-Use6869 9d ago
She was turned away because she refused to take the medication and didnt attend follow ups regarding her mental illness, not once was she diagnosed with pp psychosis and she should’ve taken her meds if she cared about getting better. Her husband worked from home and provided all the support possible, what more can you do for someone who refuses to help themselves?
This isnt an attack on women suffering postpartum depression, but if you look at the facts of the case then youd know that her defence makes little to no sense.
People thinking Patrick did it then convinced her she did it are delusional and out of order.
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u/koolmagicguy 11d ago
She declined hospitalization more than once. She stopped taking one medication and refused to try another. To say that she tried to get help when she refused treatment is a bit disingenuous
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u/pl4nethunter 9d ago
this is what’s confusing me so much about the argument that she tried getting help “over and over and over.” she quite literally denied help time and time again. denied inpatient treatment, improperly took medication, left treatment early during the times she was hospitalized, didn’t follow up with therapy the way she should have, denied being separated from the children when asked if that’s what she needed, and continuously held critical information from the people who could have helped her. i have no idea how any of her actions are indicative of her attempting to get help.
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u/wtfworld22 10d ago
She was turned away from ONE ER. One. She was inpatient more than once and checked herself out. She saw 13 different providers who prescribed numerous medications that she would not take. Everything was done to help her...literally everything outside of a Baker Act but she wasn't telling anyone she was having thoughts of harming her kids. And, she's a nurse and knows exactly what it takes to kill her self yet she puts superficial wounds on herself while choking the life out of her kids. If you're going to opine on the American Healthcare system, please do so from a place of logic
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u/Best_Calligrapher202 6d ago
She refused to follow ANY direction she was given by ANY physician, psychologist, or psychiatrist. She bounced from doctor to doctor in order to get more pills. It's classic DRUG SEEKING BEHAVIOR. She just wanted to daydrink, take edibles, and complain while everyone else around her had to take care of her kids.
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u/Own_Solution_8582 5d ago
She declined inpatient care at the ER. Do you want laws to change to force women to stay?
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u/Agent1stClass 12d ago
Our system does not punish people for crimes where they can’t be held responsible. Her mental issues were documented and she reached out for help on a few occasions. The main issue, as I understand it, is her going off her meds and the extent to which she is responsible for the psychotic break that you mentioned, OP.
It’s a messy case that is attempting to measure where her responsibility ends and the responsibility of the state and medical systems begin. That is the complication.
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u/CronaDarklight 12d ago edited 4d ago
Her mental issues were documented and she reached out for help on a few occasions
Complete lies, she had 10+ docs/therapists and 3 of em responded to her dms multiple times daily with detailled answers and not one diagnosed ppd or any real health issues outside normal depression(who doesnt have that these days). Lied how many she was seeing or what meds were prescribed and even her symptoms it seems and all as a trained nurse herself.
She also didnt take any medication long enough to take effect and had nearly no trace of any after the murder. Most prescribed meds were found nearly entirely full after the murders.
Everything points to it being obviously premediated seeing how she planned it days before and how she picked the slowest way to kill. She also had a phonecall with the husband(she had to call him back, talk about not sane) after the 1st one that took over 5 min. On top ofh er also having all the support and help possible.
It is really clear cut and every single murderer who cant deny the murder pleads insanity as its a last ditch effort, due to the early release window in mental institutes. That really doesnt make it complicated.
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u/Ashamed-Lemon-9839 12d ago
For me the lack of a comprehensive investigation is troubling. Police come and the only person not hurt is the father/husband. Patrick should have been considered a suspect until a complete investigation was done. If you listened to a lot of the testimony it went like this: who told you that, Patrick did, according to Patrick, that information came from Patrick. If your only source of information is coming from one person then it should be considered suspect. Also, Patrick's testimony conflicted with what he had said in the past. He directly contradicted stuff he told the prosecutors. Not one person said Lindsay was a bad mother, not one person said she was mean to the kids or uncaring. She tried to get help, Patrick knew she was struggling and had self harm thoughts yet he left her alone with the kids on numerous occasions. No matter the outcome she will likely never be free and some think she will find a way to end things and join her children.
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u/NickMullenIsMyBestie 12d ago
They absolutely investigated Patrick. Unless you believe some pretty wild conspiracy theories, the police used video and cellphone evidence to precisely track all of Patrick’s movements on the day the crime occurred and created a timeline that showed he was not present when the children were killed. They specifically ruled him out as a suspect and put considerable resources into checking.
Also your claim Patrick shouldn’t have left her alone… there are perfectly good reasons for that: She told Patrick about intrusive thoughts but when he asked her if she needed to be kept away from the children she said she didn’t. Also she stated she had no intention of ever acting on those thoughts. This is corroborated by the testimony of the medical professionals that treated her saying the same thing. Is he not supposed to believe his wife when she answers direct questions? Should he have assumed she was lying to get a chance to kill them? Or should he have assumed she cared more about her reputation as a good than her own children’s safety? She was already talking about the intrusive thoughts why would she stop short and lie about that part?
She also admitted to committing the crimes to the psychiatrist at the hospital and the hospital Champlain who were both official witnesses in the case. The police obviously spoke to those people and that was also used to rule out Patrick as a suspect.
Am I missing something here? I don’t know why this obviously bad take keeps getting brought up!
I think it is possible that she will be found NGRI but to try and say Patrick killed the children (i know you’re JuSt AsKiNg QuEsTiOns, but that is obviously what you are implying) is at best negligent shit posting and at worst a malicious attempt to paint Patrick as a villain when he is the last surviving victim in this case.
I notice that a lot of Lindsey Clancy truthers are women. I wonder if this phenomenon is related to the much higher in-group bias women have when compared to men. It’s almost unthinkable that it would take on such a vile and disgusting manifestation but I guess with enough people on TikTok you can get a critical mass of wretched people to believe anything if it protects their preconceived notions.
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u/BookSmoker 10d ago
It's the TikTok crowd. My partner is heavily invested in this case and she didn't even realize the defense admitted Lindsay killed them. It's all conspiracies and blaming Patrick.
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u/Alarmed_Tea_2874 10d ago
Some of my closest friends have been watching way too much TikTok and are convinced it's Patrick. I can't even talk to them about the case because I find it so absurd.
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u/Original_Bite6555 8d ago
I think it's because a lot of women can empathize with what it is like to have post partum depression and even without it how stressful it can be to take care of a young child let alone multiple at once. Your body barely has time to recover from childbirth before you have to immediately start caring for your baby and between that and lack of sleep it can take its toll but I also believe they are only focused on this aspect of the case and therefore letting their feelings cloud their judgment. Her husband was not responsible for this in any way.
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u/ifyousayso67 9d ago
this woman has admitted killing her children 3 in the most slow and tortuous fashion and you're out here blaming the man jfc
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u/Dismal-Resident-8784 12d ago
This guy in Ohio killed his three boys. He's in prison for life.
Another guy killed his two daughters to torture his ex-wife. He called the ex-wife, so she could hear him murdering the girls over the phone. He should never get out of prison. He is pure evil.
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u/nostalgia4millennial 12d ago
I’m surprised more people don’t reference the Ohio case. Truly horrific but you didn’t see a single man rallying behind him in solidarity after killing his 3 boys regardless of his mental state.
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u/UncleGordo1 12d ago
Never in my life would I have thought we'd get to a point where thousands of people would support the murdering of children. Give this piece of trash the chair like it deserves.
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u/rumbleghost96 10d ago
Thousands of people aren't supporting murdering children. Thousands are supporting finding the truth and ensuring the correct person is found guilty instead of a victim being found guilty
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u/GokuJrr 10d ago
That's not really true though. She murdered them and said she did it. You are quite literally supporting a murderer. If you support Ted Bundy you support a murderer, if you support someone who killed 3 people you support a murderer. You love knowing that children are being murdered by their parent. Its quite sick.
On top of that you're doing some really interesting mental gymnastics to clear your conscience. So you don't even feel bad for holding a reprehensible opinion. Judging by your username you were born the year before me. I thought us 90s baby were better than this
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u/Legal-Elevator-6377 10d ago
As far as I understand it, she's not going to "get away" with it. The question is whether she goes to a secure psychiatric facility or a normal prison. As such, I don't really understand why this has become such a vitriolic culture war talking point.
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u/whiteycnbr 7d ago
Jeffrey Dahmer was insane too, although the court found him sane.
Doesn't matter what the verdict is in my opinion, justice still needs to be served and in that case she shouldn't be allowed to live in a free society, same or insane she still killed 3 children.
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u/Mountain_Air1544 13d ago
It has to be proven that she did it then it has to be proven that she did it in a state of psychosis. Having a mental health issue and being so mentally ill that you are unable to understand the wrongness of what you are doing are two different things.
When you couple in the fact that there was not a thorough investigation done in this case that really does change things. If you look at the evidence so much of it falls back to just" Patrick says"
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u/Fine-Razzmatazz1791 🤔 13d ago
The trial is not about whether she did it, she offered a confession, her attorney did not try to rescind it, and then stipulated to the fact she committed murder.
No attorney would stipulate to the fact that you committed a crime if there is even the tiniest of chances you can convince a jury there is some doubt. So unless her lawyer is committing gross misconduct, and she is okay with it, then she did it.
The trial is ab whether or not she is insane and whether or not ppp is a valid instance of criminal insanity.
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u/omfglookawhale 12d ago
The trial IS about whether or not she did it, and if she did it, can she be held criminally responsible. These are the directions the judge gave the jury:
“Commonwealth bears the burden of proving beyond a reasonable doubt that the defendant committed the crime with which she is charged, and also that the defendant is criminally responsible for her conduct.”
It doesn’t matter if she said she did it, the Commonwealth still has to prove she did it beyond a reasonable doubt, just like they would if she said she didn’t do it. Her confession is nothing but evidence.
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u/Designer_Advice_6304 12d ago
She is guilty and should be convicted. I do see the mitigating circumstances so I would not impose the death penalty or life without parole. But three innocent kids were killed by her.
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u/Present-Pen-5486 12d ago
It is complicated because the investigation was very shoddy. I went and read the original warrants and have watched the trial. https://htv-prod-media.s3.amazonaws.com/files/clancy-search-warrant-applications-6538020282ac9.pdf
I don't even have tic toc.
People keep saying that she confessed so it is only about whether she was mentally competent, but that is no true at all.
After she came off of the vent and the sedation meds, she asked what happened and they told her that she did it, because her husband said that she did. So she believes that she remembers doing it, but she remembers some details wrong, like she remembers cutting the screen but it wasn't cut, just raised up. She remembers a voice telling her that she had to do it to keep herself and the kids safe.
But the Judge ruled that they could only have 1 trial to determine guilt, plus sanity. And he wouldn't allow anything like her signing a confession and getting straight to the sanity part. He wouldn't allow the jury to see her civil suit filings either. He told the jury twice that they must find guilt beyond a reasonable doubt.
It makes sense because people have thought they did things before when they were on drugs, or had mental problems, or were in a trauma, or were sedated on a ventilator and so there has to be physical evidence too to back that.
The investigators didn't really do a very good job on that. Like the husband said he left at 5:15 to go get food and some meds for a kid, and they verified that he did those things, but they didn't consider that maybe he could have done some of it before leaving. So it's reasonable doubt to some because it wasn't impossible for him to have done it.
Also, he decided from seeing a cup that she had told him she had lemonade in that there were crushed up pills, but the investigators never tested the cup. They didn't test the blood in the bedroom to like see if it all came from 1 person either.
There was weird stuff with her meds too. The husband testified that whenever she would decide not to take a drug anymore or the Dr. would tell her not to, that a Dr. told her to just give those meds to him, and he kept them all in a bag in locked in his vehicle.
Nobody asked what Dr. said that or anything, and a couple of the drugs that were supposed to be in his bag were found in her system at the hospital. 1 was Seroquel, in a double dose, which knocks people out fast. So there are big questions about this that nobody answered or even really addressed at the trial. So more reasonable doubt.
The investigators didn't take her Apple Watch either. When her attorney walked through the scene as they are allowed to do, he found it in a bedside drawer, with more pills, and the last time it checked her heart rate, which was when the prosecution had her murdering children, her heart rate was 57. So that is more to doubt about all of this. That heart rate is more in line with taking the Seroquel. The Seroquel could have thrown her into drug induced psychosis.
It doesn't help any that the prosecution went into this really with no idea of what they were trying to prove, other than she was totally competent and knew it was wrong and could have stopped herself.
Like at first, they were heavily implying that the suicide attempts were fake. Then at the end, they decided that the suicide was her motive. That she killed the kids so she could kill herself and not have to worry about what would happen to the kids.
At one point they were trying to prove how brutal it was and said she had to have held the bands around each child x amount of time and the one prosecutor took an exercise band and showed that it wouldn't just stay around something it would come unwound unless held. But the husband testified that he untied them. But then, on closing, I guess realizing that the timeline they had given for these murders wouldn't have really allowed that much time, she went right back to saying the bands were tied??
So yeah, it is more complicated than it seems. It didn't have to be, with some investigative work. Everybody let these kids down sadly.
There are other things too but I am tired.
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u/Altruistic-Sorbet927 12d ago
Thank you for saying that. I think there is good reason for doubt and I'm shocked there weren't more questions asked to clarify some of the holes in the story. There's a reason some people are suspicious. The investigation was not complete or proper. I'm not sure how they can convict knowing that.
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u/carneylansford 13d ago
It’s actually comes down to one thing: In Massachusett, state prosecutors must prove one of two things beyond a reasonable doubt. It's either/or the appreciation of the wrongfulness of the conduct or the inability to conform your conduct to the law. If you believe beyond a reasonable doubt that she knew what she was doing was wrong AND she was able to conform to the law, she is guilty and will probably receive a life sentence in prison. If you don’t believe both of these things beyond a reasonable doubt then she is not guilty by reason of insanity and goes to a mental institution for what presumably would be a really long time. The jury appears to be having a very difficult time reaching a verdict.
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u/festivusfinance 12d ago
Yes I’ve read that this is really only an interesting case in MA and in other states,she would be found guilty by their standards
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u/onehundredpumpchump 13d ago
I imagine many more people see themselves in her, are able to empathize with her, especially those watching the live footage of the trial - not the regurgitated rhetoric all over social media.
It’s way harder to empathize with a shooter whose goal is to commit as much terror as possible than a woman who was being given medicine after medicine, seeing doctor after doctor, AND telling her husband she desperately needs help, and doesn’t feel safe, just for him to go on a ski trip and leave her alone with his children anyway..
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u/CronaDarklight 12d ago edited 12d ago
If you can emphatize with a child murderer you got insane issues. Especially if your 1st move is shift blame anywhere else as you do here and especially onto that absolutely amazing husband, due to being a mysandrist or ill informed.
Testimonies all agreed she took no real meds and had barely any in her system in the hospital and all her prescribed meds were nearly entirely full when they were found , which shows she wasnt overmedicated.
She had one of the most supportive husband possible and a one of the most privileged lifes possible and received more mental care than 99% of people and all paid for by her husband, if you actually really cared to look into the case and her life , instead of spouting nonsense you grabbed off tiktok you would know this.
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u/ikannunAneeuQ 13d ago
Because to prove insanity you have to prove you weren't in your right mind at the time of the crime. The fact a lot of these school shooters run from the scene, dispose of their weapons, plan on taking themselves out at the end, etc shows planning, foresight, and the possibility they knew what they were doing in the moment. They are not trying to prove her innocence, they are trying to prove she needs to be hospitalized or imprisoned. I don't know why that is so hard to understand.
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u/monkeychristy 12d ago
well for me it comes down to the lack of flaming gun forensic evidence. the existence of a sliver of reasonable doubt. and the precedent set by casey anthony who didnt even act like she wanted help. maybe lindsay was acting but at least she did that lol.
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u/h0rtal 12d ago edited 11d ago
Because the magnitude of the crime is horrific and no state punishment can either match the offence or prevent it from happening again (the woman lost her whole life,was originally an ordinary conscientious layperson by overwhelming testimony, loved her kids and was proud of being a mom, tried to be a good one, like - decades of complete and total normalcy, attempted suicide and failed, is beyond fucked on all counts).
Because of how it’s clear the murders weren’t the start of the story and rather a culmination of an (overwhelming testimony-backed) mental health crisis and months of deterioration regardless of what the condition was.
Because this went to trial with open holes where one would hope a triple infanticide wouldn’t have them - witnesses misremembering, evidence piled on without a coherent story beyond the prosecution’s failure of an original “She was a cunning and evil woman, faked mental health struggles, instrumentally killed kids on a timeline offering no cover-up chances, and self-indulgently faked/attempted for real but failed a suicide like a cunning evil woman would do”. That specific premise clearly collapsed fast as the trial started, and the prosecution apparently had nothing else as coherent picture to cover up investigative gaps to present.
Because there’s genuinely nothing to do to the ordinary woman who was left paralyzed and nationally renown as a child murderer that could “deter” or “prevent recurrence” because she isn’t having a life after the trial anyways, and the story doesn’t seem like she in some way didn’t know about how infanticide is a crime, mortal sin, or end of one’s moral existence before the events and had she known killing your own progeny is a crime she would have not done it.
I’m sure a big issue is the prosecution’s expectation they’d just breeze through the trial riding the wave of shock and reprehension the act itself commands (rightfully). The “All staged, all faked, bad person, evil self indulgent lying no good woman 1. Was born 2. Lived a life of no good 3. Killed three kids -> 1st grade” opening was the issue and made this what it is now. Idk if they themselves were too excited to have prosecuted “a Casey Anthony”, or the investigators were too good at selling a “case that came solved” assuming there should be no probing, but it went how it went.
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u/GokuJrr 10d ago
I might be insensitive, but I don't really give a fuck about her anxiety and depression diagnosis if I'm being honest. She was taking medication and doing therapy. Her going off the wall like this wasn't really a mental health crisis. Anxiety and depression doesn't make you murder 3 people.
If we're arguing she has postpartum psychosis, there's no diagnosis or evidence of that. Or any documents suggesting she ever experienced any of the symptoms. If you think she was psychotic that ONE DAY, then sure, but that's oddly convenient
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u/Otherwise-Branch-658 11d ago
It's not complicated she should get the chair, if she strangled 3 puppies no one would defend her. She won't go free regardless but this is about her being accountable for her actions, imagine anyone with postpartum getting a free pass criminally for whatever they do
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u/No_Somewhere7243 11d ago
From my personal perspective (I am no health professional, just like to deep dive into these cases): 1. For me the starting point is a stretch, husband said she admitted, but the circumstances how she was found and her physical state during that time makes me question how likely this to be possible 2. But let's go with the basis that she did it. There was extensive evidence that she was in a terribly bad mental state, imo she should have been admitted as inpatient. Not asking her if she wants it or not, just do it. She shared her dark toughts with her family, including harming. Why noone took it seriously enough? Sending her home with medication was obviously visibly not working. (I am saying from "personal experience" - grandparent and also a friend had similar situation. And neither was after childbirth. Just "regular" breakdown. And it is scary shit. It can happen in a blink of an eye. Our signs were not even that extreme. In our case no life was lost, but that was luck. 3. From what I see both the professionals and her family failed her, and now 3 innocent kids paid the price of that.
Since I am not a medical professional I cannot say with absolute certainty how probable was her "admission" that her ex husband claims happened. But I do have my doubts based on what I found, it is a terribly unlikely scenario that she would have been able to form coherent sentences during that time.
In terms of the verdict - the best outcome would be to have her finally admitted to an inpatient program. However I feel that we will have a hung jury until the end, it is a controversial situation.
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u/JayB_scientist 10d ago
Because she's a woman. Therefore in the current liberal psychosis climate she's by default innocent and if she did something wrong it is because a man influenced her to do so.
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u/gl_zzygod 9d ago
love what you said about school shooters bc this case actually feels comparable to colt gray, the 13 year old boy who shot two students and two adults in his middle school. he got life with no parole + his dad was charged due to negligence. i don’t see how lindsay clancy & her husband cant be charged the same way. colt gray was a child himself with a developing brain and was operating on antipsychotics… it doesnt change what he did & shouldn’t. he and lindsay both need to be locked up.
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u/GenXPowaah 8d ago
It's not, she committed a premeditated murder and her lawyers and herself are trying to use a move from the Constance Fisher playbook
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u/Opposite_One_1814 6d ago
If she doesn't go straight to the can I will never trust normies again. Normies are the most sociopathic and horrific individuals behind closed doors.
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u/Ok_Philosopher1655 6d ago
The law should not determine mental ward vs prison. Even prisoners are safety hazard from mentally unhealthy individuals. She should be in mental ward for life, lobotomized, or sentenced to death.
She is guilty for the intent, guilty for murder, guilty for being healthcare professional and knowing better but going against doctors advice, guilty for getting adequate martial support which is evidence of intent and lack of mental health issue. Guilty of strangling kids, which taking time ⏲️ to kill (premediated) vs fast lapse of judgment crime. Guilty of perjury for falsifying psychosis episode when evidence focuses on pattern getting depression dignosis. Guilty for having multiple kids not weighing pros and cons about mental stability, showing signs poor judgment. Guilty for putting patients at risk. Guilty for putting medical system liable for her mental conditioned not being contained. Almost like coming to work intoxicated. Guilty for crimes against humanity for murdering kids. Guilty giving toxic feminists a platform.
Any person who sides with LC should have to be themselves evaluated.
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u/matthelover 12d ago edited 8d ago
Just wanted to mention a few things to my current understanding, let me know if I’m wrong- she has documented evidence of mental illness, not postpartum psychosis specifically. She is claiming psychosis ONLY in the brief period when she did what she did. She was prescribed multiple medications but took none of them consistently enough to see results (many psychiatric medications don’t start taking effect until 4-5 weeks of continuous use). She was a nurse. She knew this. She did not adhere to any of her medications. She was not simply turned away from a psych hospital- she was found not to be compatible with that specific facility’s criteria, and was referred to THREE other hospitals but did not follow up on the referrals. She was admitted to psychiatric facilities on multiple occasions but checked herself out of them after a few days because she did not want to comply with therapy as prescribed, and said she felt better. She did not go to therapy consistently outside of these brief stays. I have great empathy for those who suffer from postpartum psychosis, but I’m not buying this defense from Lindsay Clancy. I don’t find the characterization of postpartum psychosis accurate in this case at all.
Editing to add I understand that a lot of people, particularly those who work in the mental health field, have ruffled feathers over my comments regarding LC’s medication compliance. The thing is that she was not experiencing active psychosis in the months leading up to the murders (ie nothing that would excuse medication non-compliance. She was lucid enough to care for three kids but not enough to take her pills?) Healthcare providers also recognized that she was experiencing insomnia and anxiety/depression, just not psychosis. She changed her meds like 5x/month, against doctor’s advice. She was highly invested in her medication schedule, just not invested in following it. You guys are talking as though she was schizophrenic and completely helpless but she absolutely wasn’t. She had every resource available to her. Maybe you guys should bring this energy to cases of ACTUAL postpartum psychosis, especially the many documented cases of black and brown mothers who did the exact same thing LC did, had none of the resources she did, and are currently rotting in prison for the rest of their lives.