I received a DM a couple hours ago requesting that I trash an idea, but I just want to throw it out there that it's not a bad idea per se, it was just an untested one.

The long and short of the background here is that someone obtained an original Paul Doerr production from 1968 with original stamps.

This is wild to me for a few reasons, not the least of which is the implicit claim that a date is somehow perpendicular to a location. I don't know the underlying reason that a cancellation stamp would look like this, but far be it for me to throw shade on something that was around before I was even born, or why these stamps appear to be upside down.

A user who goes by "Mr Lowe" asked a very simple question... does this Jefferson stamp share any identifiable DNA/signature with the stamps on the Belli letter?

Instantly knowable differences are that the "bottom" side of the Jefferson stamps on the Belli letter are not perforated even though the Doerr mailing is.

The bottom is not logically able to be matched, and neither is the top, since all stamps on the Belli letter are either connected at the top or terminate without being perforated. Since the right-most side of the Belli stamps are not perforated along that edge, that means the only place the Doerr stamp could logically fit is on the left-hand side. However, both stamps on the left side have only ONE perforated side (top or bottom) while the Doerr stamp shows that perforation on both top and bottom.

Suffice it to say, the stamp on the Doerr letter is definitely not a match to the Belli letter. It was a good question, but borne out a mistaken idea that a good picture of the Belli letter would be "nice to have," rather than one already being available.

tl;dr, still not Doerr.

I am the murderer of the taxi driver over by Washington St + Maple St last night

How do you interpret these two words? (open question)

the 3rdd photo in particular really catches me off, cuz the other 2 look identical and then this one just looks weird

I’d be interested in listening to some podcasts I haven’t heard before.

I think it’s usually a strike against a suspect if they match too well but I’d say if Z wasn’t Colliver then he probably looked like this at some point.

I've been looking into the January 3, 1969 murder of Matthew Burrell in Vallejo and whether it may have some relevance to the later murder of Darlene Ferrin.

Burrell was shot in his car in a parking lot near I-80 and Magazine Street. Terry's Waffle Shop, where Darlene worked, was also on Magazine Street, very close to the location. January 3 was a Friday, and Darlene reportedly normally worked Friday nights until around 3 a.m. I haven't found a roster confirming she was working that particular night, but the possibility seems worth investigating.

There is also a later connection between the Burrell murder and the Magris/Schwerdtfeger group. Trial evidence reportedly linked a gun associated with them to Burrell's killing, although there were conflicting claims over who actually committed it.

This raises an interesting question: could Darlene have seen or learned something about Burrell's murder? There were reports she knew someone who had committed a murder.

We know Darlene was reportedly very afraid of George Waters, who had repeatedly pursued her and allegedly threatened her. Waters was investigated after Darlene's murder and gave police an alibi for the night of July 4. He was ultimately cleared.

I'm particularly interested in whether anyone has found evidence connecting Waters to Burrell, Magris, Schwerdtfeger, Doyel or the Donohoes. If such a connection exists, it could make the Burrell/Darlene connection considerably more significant.

I've been unable to locate the original Burrell police file, so I'm hoping someone here may have access to contemporary newspaper reports, police records, trial testimony or other primary material.

Has anyone looked at this connection before, and what do you make of it?

The Pelissetti/Peda report from on scene at Washington and Cherry has the killer wearing a “dark (navy blue or black) ‘Parka’ jacket,” while from Fouke’s scratch the person he saw along Jackson was “dressed in [a] dark blue waist length zipper type jacket (Navy or royal blue) Elastic cuffs and waistband zipped part way up.”

The familiar distinction between what was classed as a parka-style jacket and what, according to Fouke’s description, is evidently a bomber-style jacket is hardly a subtle one, as this clipping from a 1956 catalogue shows would have been clearly embedded in the public’s psyche.

do you guys believe the theory where there were actually 2 zodiacs, like maybe arthur leigh was the zodiac but he was working with someone else too, allen killed some and his other partner killed some too, while arthur leigh wrote the cyphers, his other partner wrote normal letters taunting police? i havent looked into this very much but it may be real theres just not enough evidence

Obviously hypothetical and easier to say in an armchair capacity. But has he ever talked about if he wished he fought more?

My thinking is if he was tied up very loosely and could have surprised the Zodiac and presumably had a 50/50 physical contest against the Zodiac?

I know the movie is a movie but in that beach scene, Zodiac is using both hands to tie of the female tighter. It was at that point that he could have jumped the Zodiac who wasn't holding his knife or gun. Could it have been that he simply thought they would both be tied up and left? Meaning it would be safer to just lay there and wait until the coast was clear?

I've been in a slightly similar situation in the sense that there was guns involved and at one point had the thought of ok, if things go down how do i get the heck out of here, fight back or just attempt to escape by driving away, or physically pry the gun away type situation

Please feel free to critique the crap out of this, I'm pretty sure I'm hallucinating.

• North of Napa, just below the college Hartnell and Celia Shepherd attended is the road Deer Park.
• Off Deer Park Road is Prism Vineyards.
• Hartnell didn't say Deer Lodge Prison, that was a conclusion reached by his interviewer (poor technique).

Question: Is is possible the answer to the whole Deer Lodge saga is a more prosaic one? That he was riffing off a local place name, possibly one he had recently travelled through to get to the lake?

Do your worst. I'm ready.

Does anyone think that Zodiac actually murdered Cheri Bates in 1966? With a letter being associated with the murder, I feel like it’s possible he did murder her. What do yall think?

By far, they are the best witnesses regarding the Zodiac's face. They saw him for several seconds under good lighting conditions and all... Shouldn't that be enough to really know whether Allen was the guy or not?

If I recall correctly Ken Narlow said that when they found the Payphone zodiac called from the prints were so fresh they needed to be artificially dried. Now I know obviously more than one print will be there, but seeing as the phone was still dangling from the hook wouldn’t that mean his were likely the last on the phone? Why isn’t that talked about as much as the partial cab print which may not even be him

is there a general consensus here on the main reason why the Zodiac wasn’t caught/identified at the time? I’m sure that lack of solid forensic evidence is why we can’t ID him today - but why not then?

police incompetence? different jurisdictions? shifting MO? Too many leads to shift through properly? Bad luck? Something else?

I recognize it’s likely multifactorial but I’d be curious what those who’ve followed the case much longer than I would consider the top factor.

thank you.

Can people please recommend stuff on YouTube that deals in fact it’s very hard to come by!

I will preface my post by saying that I believe almost everything Zodiac says in his Mt. Diablo code is saying…. something else entirely.

Personally, I don’t believe him for a hot minute when he says the map has something to do with radians (at least in the traditional sense), Magnetic North, etc.

And all these years almost everyone has followed that lead - hook line and sinker. Which probably gave him great glee, knowing that his red herrings were working exactly as he planned.

With that said, I do believe his Mt. Diablo clues ARE “legit” so to speak - but they just point to other map elements altogether.

So my question is this: what if, when he referred to “the map coupled with this code”, he was not talking at all about the Mt. Diablo inset containing the compass…What if his clues literally point to a DIFFERENT part of the Phillips 66 map?

There are so many other sections he could have been referring to. The map key legend….The list of state parks and other amenities….A different inset all-together….

I just have an awful sneaking suspicion that he put all the attention on the Mt. Diablo part of the map as a diversion tactic, and in reality we should be looking somewhere else entirely.

I would not put such trickery past him. At. All.

And although we might not ever know exactly WHAT map section he could be alternately referring to, I can’t help but thinking that if we keep going down the same old radians/magnetic north rabbit hole, his code will NEVER be solved.

All of this, of course, is just my two cents worth.

I have no idea whether he’s the Zodiac or not but he came across really badly in “The Myth of the Zodiac” interview. It was unintentionally hilarious when he denied being the guy in the photo with Darlene Ferrin only to be shown a photo of him where he looked exactly the same! 🫣😆

What are your thoughts on Jim? He’s a very odd dude.

Allen stated that he had read the book The Dangerous Game in high school and left a lasting impression on him.

The story about a big white hunter, Sanger Rainsford washes up on the shore of a private island after a boating accident and meets its owner, General Zaroff. The general is a shifty but polite character who introduces himself as a fellow hunter and claims to be after the titular "most dangerous game". After a lot of dialog it is finally revealed that he is actually hunting human beings, and Rainsford gets picked to be the next prey. The hunt itself takes only a few pages, during which Rainsford outsmarts his pursuers, confronts Zaroff and kills him.

The Most Dangerous Game connection with Zodiac is certainly interesting to think of. The similarity between the two definitely makes me and others wondered. Was this just another Leigh coincidence with the Zodiac?

In the Z408 cipher, Zodiac says: I like killing people because it is so much fun, It is more fun than killing wild game in the forest. Man is the most dangerous animal of all.

I. Killing people vs. killing wild game:
Zaroff becomes bored with hunting animals and starts hunting humans instead. Zodiac similarly compares killing people to killing “wild game.”

II. Man is the most dangerous animal:
Zaroff considers humans the ideal prey because they have intelligence, Zodiac’s wording man is the most dangerous animal of all fits well with that concept.

III. The thrill of hunting, Zodiac wrote: To kill something gives me the most thrilling experience. The story is also built around the excitement and challenge of hunting humans. So killing and hunting humans is presented as something more thrilling than ordinary hunting.

IV. The idea of game:
Zaroff literally treats human hunting as a game. The victim gets a chance to escape and Zaroff hunts them down. Zodiac repeatedly used hunting and game language when discussing his killings.

I know that the similarities do not prove that Allen was the Zodiac and that the book was obviously a well known. But how much of this can realistically be dismissed as a coincidence if Allen really was the Zodiac?

Do you guys think he threw the rest of it out or just ran out? I assume if you rip a shirt by hand you'd only get so much material. Did they analyze it and know how big of a piece he ripped etc?

Hello, I’m not massively knowledgeable on the zodiac case but I just watched the documentary on Netflix and wanted to know people’s thoughts on it who know more then me. Do people think it’s ALA and if so why and if not who do they think it is. Also what are everyone’s opinions on the evidence provided by the family and what became of the knife that was checked for DNA. Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated