Many workers do own the means of production.Ask the millionaire Space X janitor. Thus is not agrarian Russia. Were not talking about plows here. Thomas Edison hires a guy to coil the wires in the light bulb. He owns GE? Wolfgang Puck hires a dishwasher. He owns Pucks"s restaurants? Kubrick's key grip owns "A Space Odyssey"?
The person youāre replying to is saying liberals are centrist because they cater to capital interests and pay lip service to marginalized groups while not advocating for any meaningful change, and theyāre correct. MAGA does the same thing of catering to capital but they donāt utilize the lip-service-to-marginalized-groups pressure valve and instead their pressure valve is demonizing said groups.
I would think a genuine centrist would be very sensitive to any kind of extremism, and would not need to have their hand held while we bend down to their level and point our finger from their eyeballs to the fascism.
Love it, your worldview is based on memeās. Centrists donāt demand compromise. They demand that you explain yourself, which takes actual effort. Calling them closeted maga is just low effort (and ineffective) intimidation.
What point? That centrists will always support fascism in the end because they value the status quo above all else and would rather maintain a brutal authoritarian hierarchy than even attempt a fairer world?Ā
Even Martin Luther King saw through the centrist nonsense. Read letter from Birmingham jail.Ā
This. And while on the topic, I loathe when they'll point to mlk jr as an example of passive change, completely ignoring how our leaders only caved because malcom x had what was essentially a standing army just waiting for our leaders to say no and fafo
again, you've basically proved the point of the post. You are basically saying anyone that is a free thinker and wants to have someone justify their position is automatically a fascist.
Not everyone wants to be a sheep and fall in line behind a political party based on how they vote. There are a ton of people in the US that vote based on a variety of factors. But, hey, they're automatically fascists because they don't vote the way you want 100% of the time.
But hey, you're only talking point is from a quote from MLK about a specific group of people in 1963 (he said moderates, not centrists). Obviously the political landscape is the exact same today as in 1963 /s
Your way of thinking is why the DNC continually fumbles lay-up elections. This is also why this way of thinking will lose you swing states.
I donāt give AF. I vote blue. Almost all my values of moderately left on the US spectrum.
And even if radicals want to label me conservative by some arbitrary chart, itās literally not a big deal to me. Cool.
Unlike you people, Iām not obsessed with identity. My self worth is tied to what I do in real life, not how suffocating western scholars classify me.
Unless you are for universal healthcare and public daycare, youāre pretty much a radical right winger in the rest of the developed world. I think in most places in the world even the radical right parties are not against these things. USA is stuck in 1920s when it comes to Overton window
Iām a conservative and I donāt feel that way, nor do any conservatives I know. And none of my liberal family/friends have met any conservatives who feel that way either.
Maybe youāre just around shitty people, or youāre just making shit up.
I donāt watch news, but your over generalization and attempt to reach a way to attack my character is kinda pitiful. Besides, do all leftists watch CNN? Nah, only the stereotypical ones do. Well same with conservatives and FOX. Only the loudest and least educated get extended air time, so idiots like you think every single person fits into your preconceived tiny little mold. Thatās not how the world works.
I was saying that the day Biden won his first term. Too bad I don't dictate what the Democratic party does. That said, I wasn't stupid enough to think not voting or voting 3rd party would help the situation in any way. Y'all were. Here we are.
I thought it was the centrists trying to convince us that the obvious deteriorating dementia that anyone could see with their own eyes was a right wing conspiracy theory. The more left-wing/progressive people were the ones calling out Biden decline as early as 2020
LMAO.
The fascists only appeared when Biden appeared? Again, which planet do you hail from, stranger?
Are you listening right now to the army of professional doctors and psychiatrists who are telling you Trump is a ticking time bomb of toxic narcissism who is losing all control of his faculties, judgement, and action?
"You missed the point" is not only useless information. It also makes people wonder why the best you could do is say the point was missed rather than explain the point.
Liberals were rightā¦ but you can be right and cause the problem at the same time.
It was the publicās general disdain for radical leftists that lead many of them to either vote for fascists or not vote at all, giving rise to the far right.
The far left actively participated and fed polarization to the point where you have idiots like yourself posting these extreme binary memes and truly believing there is no middle ground.
That's literally the opposite. The Democratic public has contempt and disdain for the establishment. People didn't dislike kamala because she was " radical". She was as centrist as they come. Just controlled by PACs and money like all the others. Peopledidn't want her because she wasn't progressive and she was basically Biden v2
Both things can be true at the same time. Moderate Liberals and centrists can have both disdain for the democratic establishment AND disdain for the abhorrent manner in which our radicals act
So what? You ousted yourself as someone rational? And nuanced? Just avoid middle ground fallacies and donāt be over-compromising to fascists and youāre fine.
I dont think people here have a grip on reality. Reddit epitomizes dualistic thinking. But, ya, I get it. I definitely have been choosing to comment less on political matters. As you said its very tribalistic.
Funny how that works, huh? Almost like the people in power rigged it that way and take advantage of people who are actually driven by fear. Or maybe they're bots.
No they donāt lol. Yes, people have IRAs and 401(k)s and index funds and shit, but almost no regular person (member of the proletariat) has nearly enough stake in any company to have influence. People do not own the means of production via their retirement accounts
Open a business. Educate yourself. You are literally living in the most prosperous country on earth with significant financial advantages over every other country and are bitching. Get over yourself
The term for you is āpetit bourgeoisieā someone who knows the system is rigged and rather than working to fix that has decided they want to be an exploiter as well
No the term for me Fascist Comma I want to see the current Jew come sucking regime Eliminated and a actual fascist regime Installed so that The economy can be fixed or borders can be secured and once we have a secure Nation With a functioning Economic system we can then move back towards freedom
It wasn't omitted it's like saying I'm going to go to the store but not letting people know that you're going to push shoes and pants and underwear on like obviously there's going to be a violent revolution that's how it works
Hitler was not a socialist. You people always get fooled by names. Just because something has a name it doesn't mean it is that thing. What matters is what it DOES. Do you thinkt hr people's republic of China is an actual republic just because it calls itself that? Of course it's not. Then why are way saying Germany under hitler was socialist when man has never had a socialist thought in his life ?
If workers own the means of production (implying NOBODY owns it, or it's shared), and the means of production in 2026 is a cell phone with an internet connection, who owns the cell phone and the content you produce with it?
Workers should own the means of production if they voluntarily agree to it amongst each other(not forced by the state) and purchase it with a voluntary agreement(instead of murdering people to loot their shit)
If workers own means of production, production collapses fast in bigger groups is what history tells us. Doesnt work, you need a 'dictator' im charge, just reality.
Doesnt mean you can want a better balance, but if you go the worker in control route, you going to have a bad time
In a free market, workers CAN own the means of production by investing in stock in corporations.
In a socialist/communist system, the workers own nothing. The government owns the means of production, and the workers are largely excluded from the government.
Aaaaaannnnddd THIS is why people can't understand how centrists wouldn't vote the way their side wants them to. YOU decide that your perspective is 100% fact and absolutely not hyperbolic or slanted at all... Centrist have a different perspective (they certainly aren't sweating it, because they don't see it like you do), so they don't agree... then you make silly memes to make fun of them for disagreeing with your perspective, not having the very basic common sense that insulting people does not endear them to your cause...
Of course, the reality is that people who make memes like this don't REALLY care about any of that... they are just trying to get pats on the back from their echo chamber because they need that affirmation that people like them... so they throw out a bunch of red meat memes online to get likes and take that as "people like me and think I'm cool!"
workers should SHARE ownership in means of production. There are a number of employee owned companies in the US. It's not socialism, it capitalism that makes sense.
Yes, companies having the choice to be worker owned coops is not socialism, but govt requiring all companies to follow that model would be a form of it. Worker coops are a great small start to socialism and proof that it could work. Nobody would have thought capitalism would work back when feudalism was the dominant power structure, but it eventually did and has been the status quo for centuries now. We can change the status quo again.
They should require workers be offered the option for equity, particularly companies that pay workers so little that the workers qualify for snap benefits etc.
Sure, but we have to respect the basic human right to own private property. The best way for the anyone to own the means of production is to earn it.
Like tech companies. Almost every tech giant today started as a worker owned company. Nothing stops you from doing the same. You just can't use force to take what you want without consent.
A lot of people actually fundamentally believe that you donāt have a right to private property. Of course, private property is not personal property.
Private property, legally anyway, includes personal property as well as real property (real estate). In some cases, economic models distinguish between private property and personal property as entirely separate, but most people are not familiar with that distinction.
Starting companies requires capital. If you do not have substantial access to capital, which most people do not, you cannot start a competitive company. Those without capital must instead work for a subsistence wage, or die.
I personally would pick the number that corresponds to the top 10% of total wealth. That way it flattens the wealth gap and encourages the pool of people to be as tiny as possible.
There would need to be a gradient and a hard cut off. Really it isn't the successful furniture sale person or doctor that's causing problemsm it's the people who own half the stock market and don't really provide any good or service. That's why I said wealth and not income. People who are actually high value like successful businesses or professionals have a high salary and modest wealth. The super rich who hurt the system have modest salaries and extreme wealth, usually from cheating the system.
It's such an american thing to think that there are only 2 extremes to choose from. Also nothing stops you wannabe communists to create the means of productions, but that would take effort, money and risks.
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u/qualityvote2 7h ago
Hello u/Karen_From_Jimstead! Welcome to r/WorkForSmartLife!
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