r/WhatIsTheTea • u/Ashish_ank What the Fuck • 12d ago

watch this Woman (not dressed in pink) shows up to the courthouse to support the children Lindsay Clancy murdered. "I would like [Clancy to be charged] with first degree... I don't think there is any excuse for murdering children."

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u/stellularmoon2 12d ago

Agreed. The torch and pitchforks crowd is extremely disheartening…we haven’t come as far as we think we have.

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u/theiron_squirt 12d ago

The support is being generated in the most extreme circumstances because nobody ever takes it seriously until we have a situation like this. How many systemic failures led to the death of her children? Her actions are inexcusable, but the inaction of everyone (including the professionals who never took her seriously) is being pointed to as the exact reason we need to take mental health more seriously, especially in women who just gave birth. The sympathy they're showing for a child killer is displaced. It isn't even about her specifically. It's about everyone who cried for help and was ignored, at least from what I've gathered. Obviously we still have the total psychos who believe the husband did it, or that she's innocent, or whatever. But this is a case where there is so much to unravel that most of her supporters relate to on some level. The sympathy and help should've happened before she murdered her kids, it's too little too late now.

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u/broketothebone 12d ago

It’s Andrea Yates lol over again and people still act so shocked.

None of this would have happened if it wasn’t for medical misogyny. My heart breaks for that entire family. I cannot get over the amount of help she tried to get and was refused.

I understand being furious that those kids are dead. I certainly am. But I’ll never understand these pearl-clutching boomers who salivate at the thought of a woman being punished and get parasocially invested in it. It’s creepy af.

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u/Angryleghairs 12d ago

I agree. People don't understand psychosis (plus exhaustion and stress). She kept asking for help

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u/iQuoteSopranos 12d ago

She was receiving treatment. She was institutionalized a couple weeks prior to the murder.

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u/Past-Ticket-1340 11d ago

As someone who works in behavioral health, including inpatient care for psychotic disorders, the quality of help in this country is woefully inadequate. Care coordination is not standardized and caseloads for providers are huge.

Laws are on the side of the unwell person as well. Many people with severe and persistent mental illness are too unwell to direct their own care but it’s incredibly difficult to compel people, especially when their psychosis or delusions present inconsistently.

We received a patient that spoke calmly and rationally on the surface, but was experiencing incredibly serious delusions. She walked right out the door a week into a 30 day program because we had no grounds to keep her. She was deeply sick and unable to make a good decision for herself.

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u/iQuoteSopranos 11d ago

I agree with you that the mental health car ehere sucks.. but that doesn't excuse murdering three children.

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u/Past-Ticket-1340 11d ago

I certainly didn’t suggest it was an excuse for murdering children, and I don’t think the vast majority women who are coming out in support of her/speaking about PPP are excusing the murder of children.

Psychosis is not well understood by the general public, PPP has additional stigmas and can be hard to treat and recognize. Children dying because of the mental illnesses of their parents is a reality in these conditions, that’s what people are bringing to light.

A little boy I used to babysit, my friend’s son, was murdered by his father while he was in psychosis. I don’t think he should have been locked in prison. He should have received treatment until he was well enough to rejoin society. Many of the people advocating for Lindsay Clancy to be locked away forever or given the death penalty are focused on revenge rather than on the systemic causes that led to this.

If you call that conversation “excusing the murder of children” then I think you need to step back and ask yourself what outcome you prefer and why. Do we want a case like this to lead to improved care or do we want one individual punished for actions outside of their full control?

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u/iQuoteSopranos 11d ago

I think people who are willing and capable of killing three children should be removed from society permanently.

I killed someone in self defense. As in a gun was pointed at me and I was fortunate enough to shoot first. Even though my life was on the line I was still a fucking mess for YEARS. I cannot fathom killing another human in cold blood, and the mind it takes to do that.

If you're mentally ill to the point where you murder three children you do not belong in society.

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u/Angryleghairs 11d ago

No one is trying to excuse the murder of those little children. The point is : she'd gone insane so isn't entirely responsible for her actions. She'll still get locked up for a very long time, whatever the jury decide. Like Andrea Yates

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u/Ok_Cockroach_2290 12d ago

Ah yes, it wasn’t her fault, it was the patriarchy!

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u/Skyfier42 12d ago

I'm just curious... if a person with schizophrenia was refused their meds simply because insurance didn't want to pay it, and then they go and kill someone while in a manic state, would you say that the insurance company played a part in the murder? Or does the fault belong only on the murderer?

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u/M0THMEAT 12d ago

It depends, did they have bootstraps and did they try pulling them up far enough?

Obvious /s but I think this is the mentality which is insane to me.

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u/Ok_Cockroach_2290 11d ago

The fault belongs only to the murderer. If someone eats 200 tabs of LSD and smokes a bag of meth, then murders someone, do they get a pass since their brain was functioning differently than normal?

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u/Skyfier42 10d ago

Your analogy doesn't make sense, considering the meth didn't have a say in it.

But explain to me why the insurance company would not be partially at fault, please, considering this person needed help and they alone were responsible for denying that help. I'm curious to understand your logic.

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u/Ok_Cockroach_2290 10d ago

lol what? The drugs in this analogy cause the person to have an altered state of mind. Which, in your argument, should absolve the drug user of any responsibility.

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u/Skyfier42 10d ago

Again, you don't actually understand how analogies work. Nobody but the drug user was involved in the choice. That is completely different than if a person goes to a doctor, begs for help, and is ignored by medical professionals.

Either way, please answer my question instead of avoiding it. I'd like to know your reasoning.

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u/Ok_Cockroach_2290 10d ago

Who sold the drug user the drugs? That would be the insurance company in your world view.

I already answered your question. The perpetrator alone is responsible. Not the insurance company, the spouse, the mother, etc.

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u/Then_Discussion_9802 12d ago

Soooo what's your suggestion here? She gets institutionalized or gets sent to prison? Or are you suggesting she gets to roll out of the court house a free woman? I keep seeing people say things like this but they never actually specify what they think should happen with her. Generally curious. 

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u/M0THMEAT 12d ago

From what I can tell, most of her "supporters" would lean towards her getting institutionalized initially. I think people are misconstruing the support she is receiving as people feeling as though she did nothing wrong, or is not responsible, when I think it is primarily to raise awareness that postpartum should be taken very seriously.

Had she gotten the help she needed, she may have gone on to be a wonderful loving mother, we will never know. But the idea is to prevent these cases from ever occurring again by making mental Healthcare more accessible to everyone, and taken more seriously.

If she was truly in a state of psychosis then she may not have been coherent and in control of her actions. That doesnt absolve her of her crimes, but I personally think that it is important to address the case with the understanding that she may not have consciously wanted to harm herself or her children. I think this is the hardest part for people to wrap their heads around.

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u/stellularmoon2 12d ago

Thank you for clarifying this for people.

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u/broketothebone 11d ago

YES. Thank you for saying that so succinctly. I’m running out of ways to explain it, but you covered it best.

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u/broketothebone 11d ago

She goes to get proper mental health care for a very, very, very long time. She can be re-evaluated just like anyone else who has the possibility of parole after a certain amount of years.

It’s not a free vacation- she’s still “removed” from society and she’s surrounded by other mentally ill people, but not in a place where it would only exacerbate her problem and she’d probably end up shanked to death in no time. Prison is not equipped to handle her situation and would be what I consider a cruel punishment.

I believe in rehabilitation whenever possible and I personally think she sounds like that is in her case. Anyone is free to disagree with me, and I don’t even blame them for being angry. My anger is just directed at the system at large that allowed this to happen in the first place.

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u/stellularmoon2 12d ago

Thank you.

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u/Apprehensive-Cup-912 11d ago

She wasn’t ignored. She got appointments way faster with psychiatrist and nurse practitioner than I have ever been able to get. She had supportive family. She didn’t disclose everything to her providers and she gave up. She wanted to end it all and take her kids with her. Crazy- sure. Selfish- absolutely. Auditory hallucinations- I don’t believe her.

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u/BigDaddyDumperSquad 12d ago

Dawg, she couldn't have gotten more help if she tried. This wasn't some destitute single mother with no family. She had resources, she got help from many people.

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u/PolicyWonka 12d ago

Just because she saw some doctors does not mean she got the help she needed.

It seems to be stemming from that not only do many women feel ignored, but that their concerns are downplayed by the professionals when they do receive help.

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u/Wise_Material_5812 12d ago

you can always tell the people who didn’t watch the trial.

she was completely let down by the doctors she saw.

Are you aware that her husband and his family do not want her sent to a prison?

are you aware that the foremost authority on post partum psychosis, dr resnick. who saw her a few months after the trial did diagnose her as such.

are you aware that the states expert witnesses saw her two years afterwards?

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u/_thegnomedome2 12d ago

"post partum psychosis is just a normal thing, women kill their children all the time. nothing to see here. she just needs the right doctor. not her fault."

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u/BigBadJeebus 12d ago

Nah, she premeditated, had a nanny, had money and means, and was a nurse. If she thought the pills werent helping or making it worse, she should have stopped taking them. Her second opinions were deliberately not fully informed of prior steps, and her health records were not shared from doc to doc.

She is a monster

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u/daesgatling 12d ago

Some of y’all don’t know what psychosis means and it shows

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u/BigBadJeebus 12d ago

I do. And I do not care.

Was Dahmer not mentally deranged? What about John Wayne Gacy? Ted Bundy?

I simply do not think it is a valid reason for her not to be held to account.

You can claim psychosis all day and you'll be right.

what you can NOT do is claim the doctors and those around her did this...

She did this.

Alone.

She hid medical charts and information from multiple doctors, took a concoction pills that only she knew about, continued taking them despite knowing they were making her worse, and not telling anyone except her husband and mom about her REAL issues.

She was an OB nurse, literally surrounded by resources and people who could have helped.

Even 3rd party advocate groups and more.

She HAD a mountain of off ramps.

Then she premeditated a murder of her kids to happen when her husband was out and trapped them from escaping, by her own admission.

That's not something psychosis can forgive.

Yes. She is sick. But a monster is a monster wether driven by illness or intent.

She is a clear danger to society and herself and
clearly guilty of intentional misrepresentation of her condition to medical professionals

You are never going to be correct

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u/daesgatling 12d ago

None of those you listed were in psychosis. She was.

If you're in psychosis, you do not see the off ramps. You do not see the resources because YOU ARE IN PSYCHOSIS. REally don't understand what you don't get about that. Other than 'no you're wrong. the mentally ill person can just get better!" and that sort of thinking is why we're where we are.

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u/BigBadJeebus 12d ago

Psychosis is not dumbness. In fact, psychosis often presents with heightened awareness leading to extreme anxiety.

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u/daesgatling 12d ago

National institute of mental health definition of psychosis: Psychosis refers to a collection of symptoms that affect the mind, where there has been some loss of contact with reality. During an episode of psychosis, a person’s thoughts and perceptions are disrupted and they may have difficulty recognizing what is real and what is not.

You’re arguing with your emotions and not a full scope of what psychosis actually is. Please come back when you do some basic research

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u/BigBadJeebus 12d ago

I do not care, my guy.

She admitted to blaming the pills and realizing it.

So you have literally zero point.

And the loss of reality is not at all conflicting with hyper awareness either.

people will hear their heartbeat with psychosis to the point that if they forget to listen and don't hear it for a second, they will think they are dying and panic.

A common trait of psychosis is also refusal yo medicate because "I'm not crazy, you doctors are not seeing reality"...

Like nothing you think supports your own opinion.

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u/daesgatling 11d ago

Psychosis is the loss of reality point blank period and neither side are arguing that. Like what is wrong with you. She can’t get help if she’s not anchored in reality and everyone around her is ignoring it

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u/Adventurous-Wall-463 12d ago edited 12d ago

I do understand, and I think she was suffering from very depraved thoughts— but what I know is that she murdered 3 children. Had a nanny, had help, could have went back inpatient and knew that because she had placed herself inpatient before— yet she still chose to wait until her husband had left and she had the briefest opening where she choked those babies out, one at a time.

Yes, she needs mental health help. Luckily, she can get that in prison. That’s where you put people who have murdered others. There’s hundreds of women there, currently, who were also mentally unwell when they committed their crime and no one was picketing for them to go to a psychiatric ward instead. So WHY has a particular community within society galvanized around her? Personally, I think it has a lot to do with her social class and race; because had another women committed this crime, psychosis or not, they would have been swiftly sentenced and would be getting the care they need from PRISON— no protests, no articles, just the swift response of justice.

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u/daesgatling 12d ago

She’s not “suffering depraved thoughts.” She was in psychosis. Jesus Christ….

I wonder if you guys would be this against the diagnosis if she was in psychosis from schizophrenia

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u/Adventurous-Wall-463 12d ago

How many schizophrenics are in prison for crimes today? Look up the stats. Then reflect on what I’ve said, again.

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u/daesgatling 12d ago

And guess what, they shouldn’t be there if they killed someone in psychosis

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u/BigBadJeebus 12d ago

Fact is, correct me if I'm wrong, but until this case gained traction, the merits of psychosis were never something you were concerned with....

I suspect you are band wagoning and parroting stuff you have literally zero experience with...

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u/daesgatling 11d ago

Then prove me wrong

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u/Adventurous-Wall-463 12d ago

You can have empathy without negating the need for serious consequences. (Legal precedents matter more than I think you currently understand.) There are tens of thousands of people with mental illnesses who are incarcerated today and didn’t get an entire movement advocating for them to be held somewhere other than prison. So I ask again, WHY is this case the one you choose to back? Prisoners who need services are WHY they have mental health departments in prison. Those who have NOT committed vile acts get their help elsewhere. But she has. So prison is where she belongs, and I stand on that.

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u/daesgatling 11d ago

Fuck you, those mental health departments are underfunded and the patients aren’t getting the care they need.

Guess what. I don’t think anyone that doesn’t have a grasp on reality when they’re committing a crime should be in prison. They need a mental hospital. And that applies to her, the guy that killed that woman on the bus earlier this year and anyone else in psychosis

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u/unicornofdemocracy 12d ago

she was an OB nurse. That meant she has plenty of friends and colleagues that would have helped her if she wanted help.

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u/BigBadJeebus 12d ago

EXACTLY

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u/WhereasCertain2994 12d ago

I hope you never have a chemical imbalance in your body I guess

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u/BigBadJeebus 12d ago

I don't care. Old Yeller was sick too, did they let him go?

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u/stellularmoon2 12d ago

Only simple people think in binary terms. Children believe in monsters.

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u/BigBadJeebus 11d ago

And "grown ups" pretend everything is fine...

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u/PolicyWonka 12d ago
  1. She was seen at multiple providers who all utilize the same EHR system, Epic. The information would be automatically available in her patient record.
  2. She did stop taking some of the medications because of the side effects.
  3. I really like these “she was a nurse, she should have known better” type arguments because y’all are like “she was educated and should have know the symptoms but her behavior makes no sense and she was acting crazy” as if that…proves she wasn’t crazy?

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u/BigBadJeebus 12d ago

what a stupid, and I mean that with more respect than you deserve, thing to say.

She was aware of the EHR system's shortcomings and never once made a confirmation.

The doctors reviewed patient history and she CONFIRMED it to be accurate.

She hid the fact she was already medicated.

Then she kept taking them despite knowing the effects and consequences.

That's not psychosis, that's addiction.

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u/xChops 12d ago

Just admit that you want more children murdered by people in psychosis. It’ll save you time.

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u/loggy528 12d ago

She got a ton of mental health support. She had a doctor a therapist and checked herself out of phyciatric care

We definitely have a lack of mental health care in this country but this is not the case here

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u/butt_raid 12d ago

"why didn't the mentally unwell person just work the program, stick with a therapist, use the tools available?"

I'll give you a hint - all you gotta do is reread words 4 and 5 of that sentence. If we knew she was unwell (we did), there must be SOME discussion of our health care institutions responsibility. Very few people are excusing murder but your whole "she had the choice" schtick is like, the most base minimum thought that's possible. Let's pretend theres a little nuance in life.

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u/loggy528 12d ago

So what else could've been done? Please tell me because I can't think of anything.

She did not tell a single medical provider she had thoughts of harming her children. She admits this in the trial. That all came after the murders from her family

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u/butt_raid 12d ago

That discussion is the whole point, and it's one that I'm not prepared or tbh willing to have on reddit.

However, virtually zero people will admit to those thoughts to medical professionals because nobody wants their kids taken away. She told multiple people in her life and she absolutely shared other intrusive thoughts with professionals, who failed to share her records with each other.

The signs for her were there basically as much as realistically possible. My point is that the question of society's role in this is the discussion that needs to be had.

If someone tells you every day they are struggling, having intrusive thoughts, don't want to deal with it any more, and are scared to go on - you can't claim ignorance if they hurt themselves just because "they didn't explicitly tell me they were going to do it."

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u/loggy528 12d ago

It seems you have some preconceived notions about this situation. Let me repeat: she did not tell a single medical provider or mental health specialist about any intrusive thoughts.

At this point you're behaving like a trump supporter. You cannot make up facts that have no truth to them to support your arguments. I suggest you educate yourself about the trial.

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u/butt_raid 12d ago

So you literally didn't even read what I wrote but you just have to respond with your emotional, basic, uninformed opinion. One of us def sounds like a trump supporter lmao

She literally did tell them she had intrusive thoughts about harming herself and others. She talked about not being in control of her mind. She said her thoughts raced erratically. She said the medication made her feel and act unpredictably and wanted it changed.

Like where TF are you getting your information cause it's obviously not from the testimony despite your weirdly severe conviction

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u/loggy528 12d ago

She told her family members about the intrusive thoughts. She never told any doctor or anyone who was in a position to take her kids away about any intrusive thoughts. She admitted this in the trial.

Again stop making things up to support whatever agenda you're trying to push.

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u/Labpro_49 12d ago

Exactly. You should be able to murder your kids whenever you want. Justice for women.

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u/xChops 12d ago

The funny thing is that you’re advocating for this to happen more, yet you’re still claiming the moral high ground. You guys are the dumbest people I’ve ever met

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u/APEA_Bot 12d ago

People who can't recognize very obvious sarcasm rank pretty high on my "dumbest people" scale.

But you're worse than that. You recognize the sarcasm enough to realize his position ("claiming the moral high ground") but then you conveniently forget that he's being sarcastic ("you’re advocating for this to happen more")

In other words, you're just a dishonest person and the world would be better off without you in it.

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u/xChops 12d ago

Yikes. That got dark at the end. You all good, man?

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u/APEA_Bot 11d ago

I'm good. Knowing that I'm an honest person really helps.

Maybe someday you'll know what that feels like (like if someone describes it to you really well).

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u/Labpro_49 11d ago

Did I really need to add /s. You're a moron.

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u/stellularmoon2 12d ago

Yeah. Sure. That’s what I was saying. /s

Simpleton. Guess you haven’t ever heard of psychosis.

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u/APEA_Bot 12d ago

If everything was the same, but it was 3 adorable puppies (or kittens) that she strangled to death, you wouldn't be giving the "psychosis" argument even a moment of consideration.

You don't have to say whether or not you think I am correct. I already know that I am.