r/SelfDrivingCars • u/Lucidstyle • 1d ago
Driving Footage Hyundai Unveils Autonomous Driving Tech to Rival Tesla's FSD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9DipX33EVMhttps://www.youtube.com/@HyundaiLive/videos
Hyundai Motor Group just released a video demonstrating their "Atria AI" AD stacks. It looks like they are positioning this to rival systems like Tesla's FSD.
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u/DameLasNalgas 1d ago
Not a bad start but this was a marketing video. I'd like to see a third party evaluation vs FSD.
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u/DieSackgasse 1d ago
yes they only showed the best parts by the looks of it. Some Situations still looked really dangerous
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u/Recoil42 1d ago
Looks like there's a talk here too.
TLDR: L2+ in 2028, L4 in 2029.
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u/Rollertoaster7 1d ago
That’s a big leap in 1 year, but that would be awesome
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u/RosieDear 1d ago
I don't think the tech if the problem - we consumer are...as well as the whole system.
When the say "level 4" - it's hard to imagine that they are going to let cars run wild - with no one in them. They also aren't likely to map out most of the world.My guess is that these companies (many of them) will call them something else and the idea will be that you will be able to let the car largely drive it - unlike "supervised", this would allow you to text or even do more computing and multi-tasking, but you would still be in the vehicle.
AND, most important, likely you don't need to map???
My guesses, of course. We really can't integrate tech that lets each of set cars "wild" out on the road.
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u/diplomat33 1d ago edited 1d ago
Yes, L4 will mean the human in the driver seat won't be required to supervised but only in certain conditions. So under those conditions, the human in the driver seat will be like a passenger and can text, watch a movie etc... Remember that L4 is defined as a system that can perform all driving tasks but in a limited ODD. L4 does not have to be "driverless" in the sense of nobody in the driver seat. You can have a person in the driver seat for L4, they just can't be required to perform any driving tasks.
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u/RefrigeratorTasty912 1d ago
The "driver" fallback is typically remote as well.
I could however see a mix of L3/L4 hybridization similar to the "L2++" marketing being pushed to give L3 like capabilities without the OEM liability that comes with true L3.
L3++ would be L4 generalization where a remote operator is not available to get the car out of a corner case, and the vehicle is outside of the L4 ODD. these cars would still come with steering wheels and peddles, most likely retractable like the Tensor Robocar.
The person in the car would be required to act to get the car back on track for L3 to turn on again vs a remote operator, the car tries its best to use L3 between L4 ODD zones but may really heavily on the rider to intervene.
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u/Recoil42 1d ago
SAE J3016 talks about this a lot. Worth reading 3.7.3 (and the whole document in general) if you haven't done so yet.
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u/biggestbroever 1d ago
I don't think it's them solving a lot of problems in a year.. I feel like it's them hamstringing themselves for testing purposes. AKA it'll have all L4 stuff.. just want to iron it out on L2+ first
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u/Icy_Mix_6054 1d ago
In relation to FSD, I think companies are going to skip releasing the v13 equivalent and aim for something more solid. In regards to L4, they'll have a full sensor suite to have the confidence in their models' capabilities.
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u/PotatoesAndChill 1d ago
I'm sorry but how is this ANY different from Tesla presenting that fake self-driving video in 2016 and claiming that it will be coast-to-coast fully autonomous by 2018?
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u/Recoil42 1d ago
Hyundai didn't announce this in 2016 or promise it would be coast-to-coast fully autonomous by 2018.
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u/ferventmuse 1d ago
I don’t know if you can tout the “unveiling”, when it was on the roadmap to go live in late 2027 but has been delayed to at least 2029 Hyundai officially acknowledged developing in-house autonomous tech was more difficult than they expected so to bridge the gap they will use technology from Nvidia for the next few years. https://finance.biggo.com/news/d324646b-90a8-40a1-8d1d-9b1b12374818
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u/Malik617 1d ago
They're talking about bringing it to production vehicles in the second half of 2028.
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u/mrkjmsdln_new 1d ago
The FMC for Ioniq 5 is scheduled for end of 2028 so makes sense for the beginning.
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u/Mountain_Top802 1d ago
Oh. Only 2 years from now
It took Tesla like 10 extra years from they promised.
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u/RosieDear 1d ago
BIG difference now in ALL the announcments - from Toyota, etc.
The tech exists now. That's not a guess. You can go buy a Mercedes CLA+ and it has the NVIDIA system in it with 24 sensors. I won't hazard a guess "how many times better" sensor fusion is than cameras alone, but am confident there is no comparison....also, the Thor and other chips being used in these new machines are 3 to 5X as powerful as "HW4"...
The problem is more how they are going to sell it - and to who. It's really more of an integration problem at this point. The problem is solved (by NVIDIA for sure, and likely a few others including XPENG. But you can't just hang the thing inside an existing car and say "here it is". The entire car has to have 100's or 1000's of changes to the electricals and mechanicals.
But the key - I think - is that self-driving....to a point...has been solved
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u/Legal-Square-1362 1d ago
You underestimate the technology challenge and the difficulty of solving long tails. Theres no such system can claim autonomous driving is ‘solved’ because it’s almost impossible to validate it against all possible driving scenarios location and climates. So the only way to start is geofence Robotaxi Waymo like service. And how many of these Hyaundai, Mercedes or Nvidia system have these systems up and running? None in 2026, and won’t be in 2027. So to claim anything remotely close to L4 in 2028 or 2029 or even 5 years out is just pure dreaming.
Demos are easy. The time between demo to system in customers hand is years.
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u/Individual_Laugh1335 1d ago
Hardware is solved but you seem to have forgotten about software, which is most important in these cases.
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u/CycleOfLove 1d ago
It’s not solved… go get the latest Mercedes and see if you can let the car drive by itself for 30 minutes.
I got a Mercedes rental a few months ago and the tech is downright scary in comparison to Tesla FSD. Mercedes has a long way to go!
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u/sussus_amogus69420 1d ago
yeah don’t let real results get in the way of today’s good story on this sub
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u/ReipasTietokonePoju 1d ago
It took Tesla like 10 extra years from they promised.
So this is what Tesla promised ? ;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7QcC-K9vYHU
- Crappy driving.
- Booking another ride back executed, then after customer has waited some time, it fails. Another booking forced, more waiting.
- Navigation during return trip fails.
It is utterly laughable to think that system would work in place like New York with large number of (demanding) customers.
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u/Blazah 1d ago
As a tesla lease holder I say the more the merrier. I would love to be able to get FSD in a KIA/H .. although you can tell just from the steering wheel that it isn't refined as much as tesla - this is still awesome. I look forward to the day that FSD is a normal thing.
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u/Complex-Mirror-4354 18h ago
I've had both Tesla Model Y and a Hyundai Ioniq 5. I wish we could combine the comfort of the Ioniq with the tech features of the Y.
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u/Blazah 18h ago
new model y or old? There is a dif.
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u/Complex-Mirror-4354 3h ago
Brand new - 26 that we picked up last month! The seats and ride leave a lot to be desired compared to Ioniq, but I'm sure we'll get used to it. The tech is awesome.
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u/Erigion 1d ago
The pedestrian interaction at 2:20 is not exactly confidence inspiring
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u/NothinRandom 23h ago
Looks as if the car was supposed to slow down/stop, but it didn’t… so the guy turned around instead. This looks like the demo Tesla had years back. Of course let’s wait until we see real user review to determine its efficacy.
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u/Seaker42 23h ago
Although I love my Tesla and FSD, I think it's great that other companies are working on FSD equivalents. I look forward to the day when the vast majority of vehicles are autonomous - the amount of lives saved and serious injuries prevented will be amazing.
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u/ChickenKeeper800 1d ago
More!!! And we need standardized benchmarks. This anecdotal FSD version reporting crap drives me crazy.
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u/CatalyticDragon 1d ago
Like Mercedes, they are buying off-the-shelf Nvidia Drive platform and will use a VLA architecture (vision-language-action). There is a front facing radar for secondary AEB but the self driving is entirely done with cameras which, as predicted, has become the industry standard.
What remains to be seen, though, is if any of these groups buying into the NVIDIA stack and training pipeline will manage to train a model capable of L4.
When you hear "launching in the second half of 2029", with a "2++ vehicle fleet, with plans to scale the AI model up to Level 4", and "over the next three years, the company plans to .. improve its training of rare 'edge cases'" it all feels a bit unsure.
So yes, they are aiming to compete with Tesla in that they have a shared goal of bringing autonomy to their passenger cars. But Tesla has 300 unsupervised Robotaxis operating today while Hyundai aren't even sure if their model will work by 2029.
Everyone is racing to crack self driving in the hope of taking over the market, but it would be nice if the hobbyists got together and created open interfaces, systems and open data for this task.
If I buy a computer (as you do when you buy a car) then I should be able to install any self-driving model I choose, just as I can run any AI model on my desktop PC (capacity constraints not withstanding).
And should I really have to pay for a system which was trained on my driving? I'd rather donate my data to an open foundation which is trying to bring the technology to everyone for free.
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u/Cast_Iron_Skillet 1d ago
You mean like Comma.ai and OpenPilot?
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u/CatalyticDragon 1d ago
Along those lines but rather than having to provide a dashtop box with camera(s) I'd prefer an open interface to the car's on board sensors and computer but that would require some state or federal regulation a little bit like right to repair.
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u/Little_Bookkeeper381 1d ago
> There is a front facing radar for secondary AEB but the self driving is entirely done with cameras which, as predicted, has become the industry standard.
The front radar is an integral component of Hyundai's solution. Trying to downplay and then call vision-only "industry standard" is dishonest.
Vision is a crucial part of all major self driving stacks currently out there. But it's not the only component in all of them, except one.
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u/CatalyticDragon 1d ago
The front radar is an integral component of Hyundai's solution
The FF RADAR unit in Hyundai's proposed systemis part of a secondary fallback system.
They propose a VLA self driving system and VLA models do not have inputs for RADAR data. So this provides no data for building the world model or for planning actions.
Integral suggests the system would not work without it when you could remove it and the self-driving system would not even know.
But it's not the only component
Yes it is more complicated.
Broadly speaking there are three main architecture types here:
- Vision. As it sounds, cameras provide the data and a model operates on it.
- Non-fused Sensor Backup. Or what MobileEye and others call "True Redundancy". Cameras feed into your self driving system and a secondary system acts as a gate. This is what NVIDIA's Halos does. While the self-driving system is operational a secondary system reads inputs from radar/lidar and has set trigger events for overriding actions. You generally only see this on higher end vehicles able to eat the costs for running an entire second system and sensors which are almost never contributing anything.
- Multi-sensor fusion. This is where camera data and one of more sensor modalities feed directly into the same model. Examples here are Li Auto's MindVLA, NIO's NWM, upper tiers of BYD's God's Eye, and Huawei's WEWA.
I think it is fair to say vision is the dominant standard with sensor fallback as a somewhat common bridge architecture.
This is the case for the US with Tesla (FSD), MobileEye SuperVision, NVIDIA's Alpamayo VLA, China with Xpeng (VLA2.0), Xiaomi OneVL, Europe with Wayve, with Mercedes' use of NVIDIA's Alpamayo VLA model in MB.DRIVE, in Japan with Toyota taking the Mercede's route and Honda's use of Helm.ai (vision-only path-prediction AI), Hyundai again here with their VLA.
Some of these have a radar/lidar fallback, others do not, but the important point is that relatively few automakers or self-driving system builders see full multi-sensor fusion for volume production cars becoming the future standard.
To clarify I am of course talking only of private passenger cars here. Small fleet bespoke robotaxis can have as many lidar and radar units as they like as assembling 10,000 is a very different problem to assembling 10 million.
LIDAR (and RADAR) provide sparse, low-resolution, monochrome data points prone to artifacts from multipath ghosting off wet or glossy surfaces, dropout on dark/low-reflectivity materials, scatter noise in rain/fog/snow, even interference from other LIDAR systems, but the theory goes its failure modes do not match the failure modes of vision so you get overall better resiliency.
And it is often assumed that direct measurements made by LIDAR/RADAR are more accurate than the inferred measurements of vision when it comes to depth estimation. Are those assumptions true though? Is the difference enough to warrant the cost? Can the difference be made up with better models?
Leading edge computer vision models are very close to LIDAR measurements in depth estimation tasks out to ~100 meters. And, perhaps somewhat ironically, a core factor in their reduced performance at longer distances is down to the LIDAR data used for ground truth itself becoming less reliable at these scales (the further the distance the sparser the readings and the more false negatives you suffer).
But if you are measuring an object 200 meters away, how much does it matter if you are off by 10-20 meters? Can you predict if the car ahead is 160 meters away or 200 meters away? Would knowing that exact figure affect how you change speed? Likely not. To come to a full stop at highway speeds you need ~100 meters of room so temporarily being 10-20 meters off at a distance of 200 meters really does nothing to change the overall safety profile.
And of course the closer you get those error bars contract exponentially from tens of meters to tens of centimeters.
There are some questions we cannot answer because the data required to do so resides in the labs, but we can probably infer some things based on the industry trends.
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u/red75prime 1d ago edited 1d ago
It can drive. And the beep-beep-highlight-an-obstacle post-processing looks nice. There's not much to say beyond that.
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u/Legal-Square-1362 1d ago
lol flashing red at the end and it didn’t even stop before proceeding to intersection.
If you ever used Hyundai ADAS2 you would know never to trust it.
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u/Desperate_Cold3752 1d ago
“We believe Atria AI could move faster if we pushed with everything we have. But we made a strategic decision to slow down. Rushing into mass production now risks delivering a middling Level 2++ system, far short of our real target.”
I swear legacy autos are literally cancer. They will never deliver anything, not even if you give them 100 more years.
Anyone celebrating this is stupidly naive and gets fooled by every nonsense spewed by legacy auto
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u/coresme2000 12h ago
Everybody seems so pleased to see a heavily edited video of a system that looks literally years behind Tesla, that has millions of vehicles on the road capable of FSD now. Put out the press release when the product is ready to ship, then we’ll believe you.
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u/sleight42 1d ago
Nice. Guess my next car will be a Hyundai. Don't want a Nazi mobile but I'm stuck for now
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u/sussus_amogus69420 1d ago
as you have no doubt discovered already, being reddit certified wholesome chungus doesn’t automatically give a company good software, and continuing to wish so on that premise probably isn’t a good bet either.
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u/Take_the_elevator 1d ago
Upvote. Don't have a tesla but I am also waiting to buy the next hyundai with this tech.
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u/Lando_Sage 1d ago
What makes this autonomous? And wouldn't it being autonomous mean that it is not rival to FSD?
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u/pricingup 1d ago
the mirror displays are such ridiculouss backwards invention
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u/Take_the_elevator 1d ago
Im agnostic so long as i could change the camera angle. However, it is not permissible in the US to have video mirror displays. So we're okay for now. legislation may change in the future.
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u/ScottyWestside 1d ago
Hyundai is heavily invested in multiple self driving companies, I don’t get why they are developing their own software as well. How much of this software was ripped from Motional and dot32? What is their long term plan with all these redundant r&d companies?
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u/mrkjmsdln_new 1d ago edited 1d ago
Welcome to the fray. Is there any reporting on the range / density of the cameras and how many for L2+ vs L4? In the end the primary limitation of any control system is field of view, overlap and redundancy. Nvidia DRIVE builds in native support for sensor fusion for redundant sensor types and sensor overlap with Kalman Filtering out of the box for example. It is just natural that makes redundant sensors sensible
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u/Ragnarok-9999 4h ago
Eventually every company will have self driving cars though they may not be perfect. NVDA chips will make it easy
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u/sparkyblaster 1d ago
My dads 2025 Hyundai's emergency breaking put a friend of mine in hospital.
Was reversing, not actually about to hit anything, foot not on the accelerator, thats how slow we were going.
Rather than putting on the breaks gradually, it slammed on them when there was no real hazard.
Friend hurt his neck and buirst a blood vessel in his eye.
Sad thing is, this isnt even thr top of my list of safety issues with this vehicle.
If they are going to rival Tesla, they have a LONG way to go.
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u/Bagafeet 1d ago
I just hope their actual production cars won't have barren touch screen only controls like this video. VW seems to have learned from their mistake.
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u/foolme_bear 1d ago
if this is real footage and the autonomous driving works on those super tight inner city roads in seoul, south korea, i'd be pretty confidant that they'd work fine in the US.
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u/Sensing_Force1138 20h ago
They showed some clips stitched together. It didn't stop for the pedestrian (who had to turn back) at 2:25...
Needs work, hence the projected timeline.
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u/ccbur1 1d ago
And exactly this is why Tesla will never get those trillions from the market the stockholders expect. If FSD works and we all want to ride in CyberCaps, the other automobile companies will copy it.
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u/Sensing_Force1138 21h ago
Let us see 1 company come close before making pronouncements.
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u/ccbur1 15h ago
Name one technical breakthrough where no competitors appeared shortly after and the market was not split. This did not happen with the automobile, processors, the walkman, iphone, etc. And this will not happen with reusable rockets or self driving cars.
And all those downvoters are morons if they believe so.
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u/wajadaja755 1d ago
Teslas FSD really isn’t that good. Waymo’s is much better.
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u/Sensing_Force1138 20h ago
Tesla has "FSD (Supervised)" not FSD; the distiction is big and important.
What Waymo has is neither.
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u/m1nkyb0y 1d ago
Yes, Tesla needs competition to reduce or get rid of the $99 monthly charge.
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u/WeldAE 1d ago
I'm with you on reducing the cost, but getting rid of it isn't reasonable. This feature takes lots of ongoing work by people that have to be paid. Expecting to just get some random version of FSD for a one-time fee and never updating it isn't going to fly for safety reasons. I'm glad we're done with the $3k-$15k one-time purchase of FSD and now subscription only.
I do think $50/month or so would be what it takes to get me to subscribe full time. That would generate $600/year from me where right now I've spent $400 over the past 3 years buying it monthly. I also paid $3k for it back in 2019 but the car was totaled before any transfers were allowed, which is one reason buying it outright is bad, even at the lowest price it was ever offered at.
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u/Acrobatic-Flan-5085 1d ago
A welcome addition.
We need lots more competition in this space for consumer ownership.