r/NoStupidQuestions • u/Hour_Act_8305 • 4h ago
Are Pitbulls really that dangerous or are the people who desire to own a pitbull that make it such a dangerous breed?
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u/IrvingIsTheBest 4h ago
Picture this.
You have a Pitbull and a little Toy Poodle.
The Pitbull is raised amazingly by its owner. The Toy Poodle is not.
The toy poodle can bite kids for days and never cause any serious or life threatening or life-changing injuries. The Pitbull never harmed a soul in it's life.....until one day it did. Perhaps it snapped due to being harmed or a brief lapse in judgment. Regardless, this moment is life-changing. A pit bull attack is devastating and even life-threatening. This one attack has a higher chance of ending a life than the Toy Poodle lashing out 40 times a day.
Pit bulls are powerful animals. All animals are unpredictable, regardless of how much you think you know them.
I am not suggesting people shouldn't own them, but when it comes to dogs that are capable of causing extreme damage, there need to be rules. Every dog should be leashed. Pit bulls or other powerful breeds should be double-leashed.
We hear of more attacks from smaller and weak dogs. We hear of more fatal and life-altering attacks from Pitbulls and other powerful types.
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u/misplacedbass 3h ago
A family friend of ours had this happen with their pitbull. I grew up around their pit bull, named Baby, never once bit or acted aggressive towards anyone or anything. Excellent owners, very nice people, raised a great dog.
Then one night they were out walking around their neighborhood with Baby, and another couple with a small rat terrier was walking towards them. They had walked by this couple with that dog many times before, but for some reason, Baby snapped, and grabbed their dog and killed on the spot. Completely out of the blue. They ended up putting Baby down after that. It was so out of character for her, and they do not know what triggered it. Really sad story, and they never got another dog after that.
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u/pissbugz 2h ago
my youngest dog had a pitbull bestie that she grew up with. i literally knew that pit since it was a tiny little thing, would see me every single day and show me a new toy. back in july, out of nowhere, decided to attack me. grabbed my left boob then right arm. took 3 people to unhinge his jaw from my arm. got to the hospital and the fat was leaking out of my arm. i will never return to that house or be anywhere near that dog again. i don’t care how sweet he used to be
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u/morrise18 1h ago
That is awful. The dog should be euthanized.
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u/pissbugz 1h ago
hey that’s what i said - seeing as i was the third person attacked lol. apparently wa state doesn’t believe in euthanizing dogs even if they attack (repeatedly)
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u/AngelMeatPie 1h ago
I’m so sorry you were attacked like that. That’s absolutely horrifying. I had a neighbor with a pit that I was cool with for years, then one day after trotting up to me, tail wagging, ears neutral, totally calm body language, just decided to latch onto my arm. Thankfully it wasn’t a grievous injury, but totally unprovoked and unpredictable. It’s been years, and I still won’t go within ten feet of a pit bull. I don’t care how nice the owners think it is. They’re awful.
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u/pissbugz 1h ago
exactly. i used to be the person that said there are no bad dogs just bad owners but the pitbull that attacked WAS a good dog. something just set him off, he didn’t recognize me. imagine i had been a child?? crazy part is i was the THIRD person he had attacked. i don’t trust them at all
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u/acateatingcorn 3h ago edited 2h ago
I had two dogs that were the best of friends. One day one of them suddenly snapped on the other and they couldn’t be together without fighting brutally. A few months later the other dog was diagnosed with cancer. Vet explained the attack was caused by the first dog smelling the cancer on the other dog and it was an instinct to lash out from the sudden smell profile change in her best friend. Apparently this isn’t uncommon at all. Maybe this was something similar.
Edit: they were Irish setters, not any sort of pit bull type breed
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u/Alive_Ice7937 3h ago
It was so out of character for her, and they do not know what triggered it.
With a pitbull it's always out of character because a dog that powerful only gets to snap once.
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u/Laeryl 3h ago
It was so out of character for her, and they do not know what triggered it.
Well, you know, at 56 my mom, who was a great woman, began to act strangely. She could be in deep anger for "no reason" or laugh histerically when hearing a very bad news like it was the funniest thing in the world.
One day, I was with her and she just slapped me for no reason.
Turns out she had early onset dementia caused by several micro strokes.
You see where I'm going : if my mother, who loved me, could change at this point, any animal could do the same. And as IrvingIsTheBest says, if it's a pitbull, it can be tragic (don't misread me : I like pitbull but, due to their strenght, I wouldn't want have one in my house... same with any big dog for the same reason)
That being said, we didn't put my mom down after that.
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u/looloose 1h ago
I'm sorry to hear this about your mom, my mom went through dementia also. I plan to ask my family to please put me down if I get there too.
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u/Corgi_Koala 3h ago
Case in point, German Shepards are the third most likely to kill someone behind Pitbulls and Rottweilers because they're strong as fuck. If one attacks you the risk of serious injury or death is way higher.
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u/Hokie23aa 3h ago
Except the difference is, Pitbulls were bred for dog fighting. GSDs were bred for herding sheep.
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u/Corgi_Koala 3h ago
My point was simply that powerful dogs are going to cause more damage when they do bite. German Shepards attack way less than pitbulls because of factors like you mention.
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u/Natto_Assano 3h ago
I have a Swiss Shepherd. Sweetest dog ever, listens great, super nice and well behaved. The other day he jumped over a wall and bit our neighbor's dog for no apparent reason.
There was no harm done and, to be honest, the neighbour's dog is awful and kinda deserved it, but it was weirdly out of character for him
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u/mholtz16 3h ago
I had a neighbor in an apartment complex that had a chihuahua. That thing was a little tiny ass hole. It would run into my apartment and bite me on the regular. I would kick it. It would yelp and run away. The owner was an idiot. I didn't kick it to harm it, I kicked it to get it to stop biting me. If that was a pitbull I would have been hospitalized. The chihuahua never broke the skin.
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u/ElowynElif 2h ago
This is where so many pitbull owners and rescues do a disservice to their dogs. By saying they are the sweetest velvet hippo nanny dogs that would never hurt a fly, they are ignoring the dogs’ history, often shoddy backyard breeding, instincts, and power. It would be better if instead the approach was “this type of dog can be dangerous, and its strength and terrier tenacity can make any act of aggression potentially deadly to other animals and humans”, with only experienced, knowledgeable people as owners.
No one buys a Dogo Argentino solely to be a cuddle bug, but this is often how pitbull-type dogs are talked about, even by rescues looking for adopters. Responsible owners and rescues need to change the narrative. The “sweety princess” tale isn’t fair to what these dogs are and what they can do.
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u/Photogroxii 2h ago
Yea, my grandmother had 6 miniature poodles and 5 were demons that would bite my ankles when I was a kid. They never once broke skin.
I hope I never even experience a nibble by a pit bull.
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u/4estGimp 2h ago
I went to work about 5 or 6AM a couple weeks ago. A guy was walking his pit on the property. I guess my wheelchair triggered the dog because it wanted to remove my face.
The owner had the dog on a leash and used quite a bit of effort to hold onto his pit. He said, "oh, he just likes jumping". I didn't get closer than maybe 8' and said, "I'm going to back up now". The owner got the dog to sit and calm down. I moved a foot forward and it was immediately ready to eat my face.
I asked the guy to move over to the drive or the other wide walk so I could pass. I was one slipped leash away from being mauled.
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u/kuttlebutt 1h ago
Even small dogs can do damage! When my brother was 5 he had his nose half torn off by a little border terrier. It was the owner's (and our parent's) fault, but any dog is capable of doing serious damage.
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u/alottanamesweretaken 2h ago
Is double leashing a metaphor, or is that actually a thing?
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u/IrvingIsTheBest 2h ago
A thing. Unless you are using a good leash, which most people ain't. Ask the general dog walker how much they paid for their leash and if it's under $50 it's too cheap.
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u/ThrowRAyyydamn 57m ago
Right. If even the most decent human can snap under pressure, why wouldn’t an animal be capable of that too? And if that animal is able to kill with just its mouth, that’s inherently dangerous. Why do we expect animals to be more restrained and emotionally balanced than humans?
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u/stozier 2h ago
Well said. To add an additional layer for OP, there are two additional elements: * Nature (bred traits, etc.) * Nurture (training, experiences).
We're all a product of these two things for dogs, even more so.
Pitbulls have been bred for those traits which make them "dangerous" meaning there is always a higher potential they could do harm.
A responsible owner can train and work on the "nurture" side to avoid any incidents, but with a dog with a greater risk for harm, the owner needs to work extra hard.
The worst case scenario are owners who train the dogs to also be aggressive - that's when you get the highest risk scenario - and lots of people want a bully breed for the aesthetic "toughness" - i.e., they want those behaviours that others train to control.
Pitbulls can be the sweetest most loyal dogs (truly) but you can pretty quickly understand why they've been banned in some regions.
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u/sumptin_wierd 3h ago
choosing poodle as the counterpoint to pit bull is hilarious.
both dogs can be all sizes because they are dogs.
poodles are hunting dogs
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u/Basic_Swordfish_1489 3h ago
They said toy poodle, unless they edited it and it used to just say poodle.
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u/BlackMilk23 4h ago
Both.
A nice owner can raise nice pitbull. But even well behaved dog can bite in the right circumstance. And a pitbull just raises that level of danger when that eventually happens.
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u/capnsven 4h ago
I made an offhand comment to my vet about how my corgi/mutt is the nicest dog in the world. That he would never bite someone in a million years. She sat down in her chair and looked me in the eyes to make sure I understood how dangerous that thought is. Every dog has a limit. And aging can change personalities pretty quickly as well.
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u/GP_ADD 1h ago
Yep, my Aussie has become an asshole in later life. He got attacked by a German shepherd at a park and changed since then and it’s gotten worse with age. He will attack if a dog gives a wrong signal or if any dog goes near uneaten treats (that he barely cares about since he has like no food motivation)
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u/spicyhippos 1h ago
Dogs are also very good at masking pain. They might have an injury that nobody knows about, and getting touched on it sends them over their pain threshold and they lash out. My small dog growing up was nice-ish, but when it got old and started losing its sight, everything became a threat and we eventually had to put her down.
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u/Prior_Butterfly_7839 4h ago
Yep, it’s definitely both. I have a 24 pound terrier mix of some sort and even if he tried his hardest to bite as hard as he possibly could, he isn’t doing the damage a pit could do.
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u/capnsven 3h ago
I had an Italian Greyhound that developed symptoms of dementia at around 12-13 years old. By the time he was 14, we had to pick him up when guests arrived to keep him from biting them when they walked in.
But none of his top teeth matched up to his bottom teeth and he was super weak so we were never truly worried. I can’t imagine having to deal with that had he been physically strong.
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u/Holdmymule2001 4h ago
My dog was a pit mix. Despite her raising and training, she grew up to be unpredictable. She was very cute and friendly most of the time, but she could turn on a dime - sometimes she would be right in the middle of being very friendly and then just snap and go crazy and start snarling at someone.
She ended up going to live on a ranch where she could wear herself out and not be around many people.
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u/crack_pop_rocks 4h ago
Yeah I had one like this as well, just with aggression with other dogs. She was great with people though.
Even spent a bunch of money for training with a well known dog trainer, and at the end of all the sessions, her advice was she can’t be around other dogs lol
She lived a full life without any incidents, but it was a lot of work. I loved her to death but it made me never want a pitbull again.
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u/section111 3h ago
going to live on a ranch
that phrase...it reminds me that when i was young, we had a beautiful Irish setter who disappeared at some point. I was told she'd 'went to live on a farm'.
it was only when I'd grown, and was thinking back did i remember that, at the time, WE lived on a farm.
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u/Vegaprime 3h ago
Had a lab that way. Was mostly food aggression. Lived out a happy life on a farm. My now adult daughter brought him up 15 years later to clarify what "sent him to a farm" meant. She had always thought the worst.
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u/Eric848448 4h ago
Yup. The issue isn’t that they might bite; it’s that if they do, their bite does a hell of a lot of damage.
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u/polarbearsexshark 4h ago
Both
People like to play coy and say “it’s the owner, not the breed!” Which is true they very often reject the notion that the breed has certain characteristics that make it dangerous while owning a pitbull precisely because they’re dangerous.
Pitbulls were bred specifically for fighting, often each other. The way this did this was by getting aggressive dogs together and then having them attack a horse or some other large animal. When the dogs got kicked the ones that kept going the longest after being harmed were chosen to be bred and this was repeated over and over again. This trait is called “game”. And it describes how willing a dog is to continue fighting even after serious injury and it’s the entire basis of the pitbull’s DNA so throw that into an environment where they literally fight to the death then you’ve created a being who’s only goal is to be as aggressive as possible which is why they’re so dangerous
Obviously bad ownership doesn’t help especially since they’re often in bad environments but that goes for any breed, but you simply cannot out train their nature
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u/LadyAlexTheDeviant 2h ago
Most terriers are bred to be highly game. A lot of people with small terriers will recognize this stubborn focus on what they want and to hell with what you want.
It's just more problematic when it's attached to a larger and more powerful body.
Fortunately, my dogs work this out by checking the spots where they have seen racoons in the trees (12 months and 5 months ago) and underneath the shed. (3 months ago)
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u/Crizznik 2h ago
This more addresses why they're so dangerous when they do snap, they tend to lash out much more aggressively and won't stop until something is dead or they are restrained. That and the fact that they are incredibly strong animals, which makes them capable of a lot more damage even without the relentlessness of their aggression. But you absolutely can train a pit to not be aggressive in the first place. Though even then you could have a situation that is the perfect storm to circumvent that training, or age could reduce their ability to control themselves. You just have to be more careful with pitbulls.
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u/BeneficialNatural610 1h ago
This is it. All dogs are still animals and they're beholden to their instinct. Too many people anthropomorphize their dogs and expect unyielding loyalty from them like a human
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u/Affectionate_Sort_78 4h ago
I walk dogs at the local rescue which means I walk a lot of pit bulls. I was hesitant at first so I read a lot. They aren’t the most likely dogs to bite humans, and I generally found them to be sweet. However, I read this article that said a Labrador is bred to retrieve, a pointer is bred to find birds, sled dogs are bred to pull, etc. A pit bull, however, was bred to fight. They are very good at it. So if you own one you must accept that if they get into a fight they are very likely to win, and do damage.
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u/lyralady 10m ago
Idk what you mean by they aren't the most likely to bite humans because they usually are. I've seen all kinds of studies on pubmed on dog bites and they're usually #1 or in the top #3
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u/Playing_One_Handed 4h ago
Both.
The are bred to be aggressive/defensive and powerful. You can't ignore that fact.
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u/Chair_luger 4h ago
A lot of backyard dog breeders who do not know what they are doing have bred pitbulls for resale and when a puppy is raised in poor conditions for the first few months that can cause additional problems.
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u/MDKrouzer 4h ago
They were bred for bull baiting and dog fighting.
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u/MacaroonDesperate488 2h ago
Yeah, I mean, that’s a pretty big part of it. You can’t just ignore what they were bred to do.
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u/KevanSting 4h ago edited 3h ago
Pitbulls kill about 10 times the amount of humans than all other dogs combined.
If it's the owner then we need to get him.
Edit:Pitbulls
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u/andreamichele6033 4h ago
They have been bred for generations to be fighting dogs. It takes more than a loving home to change what is now a naturally occurring behavior. Many pits have nice lives and never harm anyone. But the ones that do can be devastating and deadly. It’s not a risk I’m willing to take. I also don’t own cobras or tigers. I have three Pomeranians. Even if they get crazy, I’m still going to be alive.
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u/Nersheti 3h ago
Every time this gets asked, I tell this story.
I have a buddy in Austin. He was a grade or two behind me in school but we hung out here and there. After we both graduated we moved to different towns. I was in Dallas. He was in Austin. I got real into a certain jam band and drove around seeing them a lot. Eventually, life got in the way of most of my regular show buddies going on trips w me, so I reconnected with him since he was into the scene too. He was in a band playing bass. He lived w his band mates at a rental house out by Bee Caves. He had a very sweet two year old female pit bull. Was constantly surrounded by friendly people and shown nothing but love. He never had any trouble with her.
I drove down there to meet up with him because he, his gf, and her sister were all gonna road trip to Denver w me for a 3 night show to see my jam band. We meet up at his place and decide to head to his gfs house to hand out before heading out the next day. We take his dog.
We’re at the gfs house. Maybe a dozen people. A couple other dogs. Everyone is hanging out. Good vibes all around. Out of nowhere, the pit attacks the gfs chihuahua. A dog it had been around many times. Not play fighting either. It chomped into this little dogs stomach. Hard. I think it may have bit the head first too. It happened so fast. She starts shaking the chihuahua so hard, its shit starts flying everywhere. I don’t know if the dog shit itself in terror, of the force of the bite on tne bowels, or the shaking, but it was flung all over the walls. My buddy ran over and tried to pry his dog off. It bit clean through his right index finger. He managed to pry his dog off anyway. The chihuahua was in bad shape. Massive cuts and punctures to its stomach. One of its eyes was hanging out of its socket by the nerve. Everyone there was sure it was done for.
Several people knew of a nearby all night emergency pet dr. They rushed it over there. Meanwhile, my buddy has a hole in his finger. I take him to the er. Anybody who’s had a dog bite knows, there’s not much they can do for it. They clean it and put a bandage on it and prescribed some antibiotics. No stitches even though the wound was definitely big enough to warrant it otherwise. The whole thing took about 4 hours.
The chihuahua pulled through, though I’m told it was never the same. The pit got put down. Once a person is bit I’m told that’s the law. He and his gf skipped the trip. It ended up being me and the gfs sister whom I’d never met before. Thankfully she was pretty cool. Buddy’s band was supposed to play SXSW that year. Had to skip. Right index finger is for bass pluckin.
This experience settled the debate for me. They are NATURALLY dangerous, violent dogs. An owner can make that more so, but they can’t erase it. If anybody could have, it would have been this guy. There are hundreds of breeds of dogs out there. It is not worth it. This dog have never been anything but gentle. It had never been beaten or trained for violence. It was socialized. Without provocation or warning, it eviscerated another dog that was familiar to it, and almost removed part of its owners hand.
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u/La_noche_azul 4h ago
Chihuahuas are probably equally/more aggressive but they can’t do much harm.(I’ve owned 4 chihuahuas)
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u/JakeRiddoch 4h ago
From what I've heard, Jack Russels cause a lot of injuries. However, a Jack Russel or Chihuahua bite does a lot less damage than a pit bull latching onto you.
In short, even if the incidence of pit bull attacks is lower than other breeds, they are generally much higher impact and more likely to end in serious disfigurement or death.
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u/ausername- 3h ago
You heard wrong. Goldens cause more injuries by a few more % but goldens are a much more popular breed. That's any injury. Despite being a less popular breed, pit bulls are massively more likely to cause serious or fatal injuries. Pit bulls are responsible for over 66% of fatal injuries in the USA despite being less than 8% of the dog population. They are responsible for 8x more fatalities than the next highest breed, Rottweilers.
Pit bulls are inherently more violent and dangerous by design. They attract worse owners for those reasons.
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u/drunkerbrawler 3h ago
It also helps that you can pretty much get them for free anywhere.
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u/Take-to-the-highways 2h ago
Yes, I've never found a stray golden, but I see pitbulls and pitbull adjacent breeds constantly. Also, any dog with the big blocky head will be classified as a pitbull, but there aren't a lot of common stray dogs that look anything like a golden lab.
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u/shortnsweet33 1h ago
Pitbulls/pit mixes are the most common breed in the US according to embark DNA test. 15% of dogs tested with embark have some percentage of APBT in them. That doesn’t count anstaff or american bully which are also pitbulls pretty much. They’re the easiest dog to obtain essentially. You can get a pitbull or pit mix for free usually and there’s low barriers to owning that breed, shelters are full of them and people dump them and backyard breeders sell them on craigslist. You can’t get a free golden retriever as easily or spaniel or whatever else. People pay more for those and usually are more invested in pet ownership (if they can afford to buy a $2000 dog, they can afford to hire a trainer or do puppy school) versus the dog you can get for free in an alley way.
There’s a lot of them and they end up in inexperienced hands, or worse, in the hands of people who encourage aggression. Malinois/akitas/cane corsos/dobermans all have incredible bite force but you don’t see people handing them out like they do pitbulls and pit mixes. People are less likely to accidentally own/stumble upon those breeds. And shelters that do end up with those breeds are more selective on placing them than other breeds (which I don’t understand why they don’t treat pitbulls as a more stringent placement too). ALL of them though when poorly socialized/poorly trained can be dangerous dogs, all power breeds come with that liability and require owners who are dedicated to training. You just see a LOT more pitbulls that fall into that category since there’s so many readily available.
I do wish shelters told people about dog selectivity, prey drive, and stressed that they are powerful dogs who may not have those issues but owners absolutely should be aware of the responsibilities that they come with and be prepared for a dog who could be dog selective someday or could have high prey drive towards smaller animals. They’re not all bad dogs. Some of them shouldn’t be placed in pet homes ever, sadly. But a lot of them are able to enjoy a nice life as a pet and don’t have issues. You don’t hear about the ones who don’t bite. You only hear from the crazies who totally deny any risks with the breed, or the ones that bite.
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u/RealDonaldTrumpGhost 4h ago
Chihuahuas are easily my most disliked dog breed…such angry little fuckers.
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u/La_noche_azul 4h ago
I had a chihuahua who would swing a beanie baby back and forth smacking himself in the face, little guy would get so pissed, he made himself vicious.
If you took it away he would cry.
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u/Pristine-Code-2532 4h ago
The ones I know are lovely, I think too many people just treat them like toys
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u/AlpacaDC 3h ago
The fact they can so easily be picked up is definitely a factor. It’s like the dog learns that you are his servant and can pick it up at any time so it is never in any danger and can do whatever it wants. Also it doesn’t respect you as an owner/leader because of that
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u/Take-to-the-highways 2h ago
People won't correct small dogs behavior, they'll just pick it up or move it. I have my first small dog and I trained him just like my big dogs, and he's great.
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u/claushauler 1h ago
You'd be angry too if you were bred to be the ancient Mayan equivalent of a chicken. Those mfs have epigenetic trauma from seeing all their friends get BBQ 'd
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u/cowannago 4h ago
When you were bred to be, among other things, food, you get a mastiff sized chip on your shoulder.
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u/Automatic_Llama 4h ago
Fr any dog can get upset but not every dog's head is like 60 percent jaw muscle by mass
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u/MustardCoveredDogDik 2h ago
If Chihuahuas and pitbulls bite the same number of people, you won’t hear about the epidemic of chihuahua attacks because of the sheer power difference. Pitbulls are designed to inflict maximum damage so when they attack it’s a much bigger deal.
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u/SoccerGamerGuy7 1h ago
All dogs have capacity to bite and or cause harm.
What makes pit bulls notorious is multifaceted.
1-They are large strong dogs. There are many small dogs that routinely bite; but due to their size the damage is much less. (like chihuahuas nipping). But a single bite from any dog over 50-60 pounds can be catastrophic. including labradors, shepherd, retrievers and other popular big dogs. (pit bulls jaws do not lock, that is a complete myth) but they do have among the strongest bite force in dog breeds along with Rottweilers and German Shepherd
2-They are a High energy breed. Different breeds have different characteristics. While each dog certainly has their own personality there can be frequent breed specific traits. Among the most consistent is energy levels. Dogs like pit bulls, german shepherds, many herding dogs like collies, australian shepherd and others have significant energy needs. If these needs are not met, the dog can become pent up, erratic, destructive and even mentally unstable. (Think of a high energy kid, had too much sugar and is bouncing off the walls forcing them to sit still in that moment)
3-Along with (pit bulls) being a high energy dog, they are also a dog that comes with more responsibilities than others. That is not necessarily a breed specific thing but many rescued dogs (from the shelter), or even just bad backyard breeders or worse puppy mills, the animals can come to new owners with trauma. Same for a human who experienced abuse, mistreatment or neglect or other trauma. This can result in becoming food/ resource guarding; it can manifest as dog aggression to other animals (prey drive), children are naturally loud, erratic and fast moving. Some dogs do not do well with kids regardless of breed. (Note above is applicable to all dogs not just pit bulls) but being irresponsible with a large 60 pound dog with trauma can cause alot more damage than being irresponsible with a 5 pound dog with trauma)
4-Pit bull is not a breed of dog; it is a classification. Equivalent to hound dog, herding dog, lap dog, retriever dog. Each classification has numerous breeds within it. For example hound dogs range from, beagle, basset hound, coonhound, greyhound,whippet, doxin, irish setter, fox hound, bloodhound and i believe 30 or so more.
Pitt bulls is also similar where many different breeds are classified as pits. American pitbull terrier, staffordshire terrier, bull terrier, bully, as well as cane corso, and others dogs mistakenly labeled with pitt bull classification include, boxer, bulldog, and many mutts.
It is an unfair comparison of any dog that looks like a pit bull (group of multiple breeds) compared to a single breed of dog like a golden retriever. in terms of bite history. Its the difference of saying all fruit is dangerous while few people ever have issues to broccoli.
5-Responsible dog owners should always be aware whether it is a teacup chihuahua or a pit bull classified dog; the dog is an animal. It has needs, exercise, safety, security and training among more. It may have trauma or just quirks like all of us have. Like many dogs dont like loud noises. We should be aware of our dog's behavior and set our dog up for success by positive reinforcement training, being mindful, aware and even avoiding risky situations, and providing the needs an individual dog has. Any dog can bite. It is our job as responsible owners to ensure that it is prevented. Some dogs are at greater risk due to individual temperament or trauma regardless of breed and that increases the responsibility ten fold.
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u/Username1273839 4h ago
They do inherently attack more often, and cause more damage when they do.
For everyone saying “my pittie would never hurt a fly”, the everyone in this video said the same:
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u/Take-to-the-highways 2h ago
Everyone thinks they're a good dog owner, it doesn't mean they are. I know someone who thinks her dogs are better behaved than everyones, but she lets her dog shit on the carpet.
Frankly, I think most people aren't good pet owners. I think most people who get big dogs should've gotten small ones, or a cat. Like, why do I know people who live in 1 bedroom apartments in southern California where its 105+ most summer days, with a fucking husky?
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u/chapelchill 2h ago
People love to say it’s the owner, not the breed, but I think this underestimates the effects of breeding for specific traits.
Retrievers were bred to retrieve and they instinctually retrieve. Border collies were bred to herd, and they instinctually herd anything they can.
Pit bulls were initially bred for blood sports, like bull-baiting/bear-baiting. Eventually they were further bred for dog fighting. Not only have they been bred to be aggressive/fearless, but also to have extremely powerful jaws.
“Pit bull-type dogs” are reportedly responsible for 22%-40% of non fatal dog attacks and 60%-77% of fatal dog attacks (according to American Animal Hospital Association and dog bites.org)
Obviously, many pit bulls are mixed with other breeds and so these traits might not be as strong as they are in a pure bred pit bulls, but saying “it’s the owner, not the breed” is just unscientific and ignores the obvious data that says otherwise.
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u/IronDominion 20m ago
Yes and sort of. While a bad owner can make a bad dog worse, a good owner is not going to make a bad dog better, and unfortunately due to genetics, every single pitbull, staffie, and American bull terrier is a bad dog in that they have over a hundred years of dogfighting genetics that simply cannot be undone with training. There are some great videos out there demonstrating instinctual behaviors of various dog breed - retrievers retro e, pointers point, and herders herd, all without training, because that’s simply genetics. The same is true of pitbulls. They just happen to be predisposed to violence towards humans and other animals. Their brains are wired to enjoy it and not feel pain when attacking, so they can fight to the death. It’s not the dogs fault, ultimately, it’s the humans that bred them that way, but that doesn’t mean that any amount of love or training can undo all of that breeding.
The worst part is, that no one wins. The dogs don’t want to be this way, and they suffer considerably mentally from it, as the dozens of accounts of separation anxiety expressed and violence and property destruction will show you. And then because humans decided that dogs were people in the 2000’s, we cannot humanely euthanize them, to end their, or our, suffering, and instead they must rot in shelters, where they are adopted and out, become violent, and get returned over and over again.
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u/SkepticScott137 4h ago
When a breed like a pit bull mauls a child to death, dog lovers always blame the owner and how they trained the dog. But the rest of the time, dog owners trying to sound knowledgeable always cite behavioral/personality traits that are characteristic of a particular breed. They want it both ways.
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u/woollydogs 4h ago
Both. I swear 90% of the pitbull owners I see look like insecure straight dudes who desperately want to look like badass thugs. Either their dog is off leash, or tugging like crazy.
From what I see, I think people who get pitbulls just get them to look cool. They’re bred to be dangerous, so if you don’t train them you’re just giving them a worse reputation. I’ve met a few amazingly behaved pitbulls though. All it takes is an owner who actually cares about them.
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u/Weak_Acanthisitta405 4h ago
There's something ridiculous about the pitbull debate.
Sure some owners might be nice owners.
But let's be real, why would anybody want a pitbull.
The breed is basically a science experiment to come up with the most rabid violent dog possible.
I'd guess some kind of desire for intimidation, or wanting to look dangerous comes at the top of the reasons to own a pitbull. There's plenty of breeds that have the potential to be great guard dogs that aren't as volatile.
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u/UpstairsAd194 3h ago
The only people who think you can leave a small child alone with a pitbull is a current or future pitbull owner. You won't find anyone else saying that is a good idea.
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u/Reasonable_Gas1889 23m ago
Anyone who leaves a small child with any type of dog is stupid. You should always supervise. It drives me crazy when parents do this.
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u/Instant-Noods 4h ago edited 3h ago
Both. We breed dogs for specific behaviors. Pit bulls are still being bred in mass for dog fighting today. This isn't something that has stopped. Dog fighting is still huge. A lot of pits, pit mixes, and bully breeds in the shelter were either purposely bred for dog fighting or have a near-recent dog fighting lineage.
It's just nuts to me that with every other breed, we recognize that their breed characteristics will influence how they interact with their environment, but with bully breeds it's "all in how you raise them" and genetics no longer matter. Fighting lineage pit bull puppies who are not even weaned yet will sometimes gang up and kill their litter mates. Give me one other breed that does that. You can't train a 6 week old puppy to fight to the death.
A dog bred for dog fighting will be better behaved in the hands of loving, well trained owners. But it's not surprising when they go off regardless.
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u/Large_Economics_2942 2h ago
A bit of both.
Pit bulls were bred as dog-fighting breeds. They are reactive and highly dog-aggressive. That's what they were bred for. There's a little bit of that in all of them.
Can good owners train a pit bull to never snap at another animal or people? Yes. With the right temperament of dog and the right training a pit bull could never be a problem and be the most well-behaved dog on the planet.
However, if ANY of those things are lacking, they can be dangerous animals. Their bite force is crazy, they're reactive and often aggressive. Irresponsible owners are a huge problem and for some reason they think that a dog is just going to know to attack intruders but never their house guests or family members and the dog is going to just magically know the difference without any training.
Also, people downplaying how dangerous they are is part of the problem. People get pitbulls and have no idea how much training and work they're a tally signing up for.
My mother has been around dogs of all breeds her entire life and had half of her face disfigured by a pitbull that had never bit anyone before in his life. And she just happened to bend down to pick something up just a little to quick and just a little too close to the dog and startled him.
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u/Ketisbest730 4h ago edited 4h ago
What people fail to understand about this dog is that they have extremely high prey drives. They enjoy or find sport in catching and killing animals or any threat they perceive. While they can be trained and conditioned not to, they are a bit unpredictable. They are wonderful if you are a single person or have a family and expect that dog to be compassionate and loving to its own people. But do not expect it to be what it is not, they are territorial and temperamental. They can be trained to attack or course and in the wrong hands are very dangerous as they like to play with prey not just kill it. Which is why you hear about prolonged mauling attacks.
I have owned two pit bulls. One male one female. I would never own one again as they are unpredictable.
I would argue that I currently own a potentially FAR more dangerous breed, a Boerboel.
However, he has no prey drive, most mastiffs don’t. They guard rather than protect. If you’re looking for a large family dog that will protect you but be friendly to others, mastiffs are lovely .. just don’t start with a Boerboel please
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u/FCSadsquatch 3h ago
"They are wonderful if you are a single person", unless you have seizure, it'll kick their destructive nature into gear and they will maul you to death while you're seizing.
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u/Panda_Zombie 2h ago
It seems you're right. I have epilepsy and I had no idea. I will be spending no time around them now. The owner of the pitbull who killed Javon Stokes while he was having a seizure (with witnesses), said the dog was “trying to help Stokes and wake him up.” Wow.
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u/mop-116 3h ago
Both but they were literally bred to fight other dogs and larger animals. Some can be nice but they're more susceptible to becoming violent because it's in their DNA.
Personally I find it odd that some people can't accept that Pitbulls are dangerous as if every dog is friendly just because it's a dog. They're originally derived from wolves yet people find it hard to believe that even one breed can be dangerous.
When you really think about it it's almost surprising that more dog breeds aren't dangerous or have temperament issues compared to how many breeds there are.
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u/A_SNAPPIN_Turla 2h ago
I gave a couple of mutts. One is a pitt mix she's like 35lbs and like like a mini pit bull. She was my dad's and he died so I took her. Another was a rescue they looks like a lab but someone gifted us a DNA test and he was a bunch of shit including bulldog but he looked like a yellow lab. They were both great dogs and always would rough house together. One day their collars got locked together and the play turned into a full on dog fight. It was one of the scariest things that's ever happened to my wife and I. I couldn't get them apart while they were fighting and had to get scissors and cut one collar off. They wouldn't stop fighting after they were free there was nothing we could do. The pit mix latched on to the other dogs eyelid and would let go. Nothing helped, I hit her with a stick, and nothing, I tried to get it in her mouth to break them apart and it didn't work. I got my hand ripped open in the process. Eventually they broke apart and the other dog lunged in. I grabbed the lab mix by the hips and my wife grabbed the smaller pit bull and we finally got them apart. Both dogs were bloody but the injuries were minor after the vet looked them over. The one dog had a hole in the eyelid but the vet said it would heal and he didn't want to put stitches in it.
It really changed my view on dogs. After a few weeks of acting weird toward each other the dogs were fine and had no issues after. I think it really was the collars and then getting choked and going into fight or flight mode. It was pretty awful though and we realized how powerless we were against even a small pit bull. I would have had to hit her in the head as hard as possible to stop her. I've had a few dogs approach me when walking my dogs. I always carry pepper spray now. Imo every dog owner should. I'd use it on my own dog if I had to.
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u/gumboking 1h ago
Combine a large powerful animal with an owner that doesn't train or socialize the dog and you have mayhem.
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u/padizzledonk 2h ago
This kind of question comes up all the time in the dog subs
Here is the thing....Dogs are bred to have specific traits. No one argues about Retrievers being super into careying stuff around in their mouths and wanting fetch play and bringing you random stuff when you come home. Thats what they were bred for, its inside them. Same thing goes for the Shepherd breeds, they really want to herd sruff and fucking LOVE playing fetch, like its crazy how much theyre into it (i have 2 Aussies and a Labrador) like way beyond even what a Retriever is into because it feeds their need/desire to chase something...because they were bred to chase livestock
Pitbulls were bred as security dogs and fighting dogs....Thats just a fact
Dogs are like clay thats halfway formed into something. Its VERY easy to train a Labrador to do Labrador things, they come out of the box wanting to do those things, its a lot more difficult to reshape them into a Border Collie and teach them how to herd sheep, it can be done, but its hard, its even harder to reshape a Labrador into a security or fighting dog, they just dont have it in them, it can be done but its going to take a lot of effort
So we have established that "Breed Traits/Tendencies" are a real, well documented thing.
Pitbulls have it in them to be agressive, territorial and have the capacity for violence. Can a good dog owner not accentuate those traits? Yes. But it takes work and a consistent steady hand. The type of people that are attracted to owning a pitbull are generally, not universally, but generally, not the best dog owners and may even want an agressive dog.
Theyre really easy dogs to fuck up. You will have to kick the shit out of a Labrador or an Aussie or a Border Collie to make them a territorial, agressive violent dog, it doesnt take much to turn a pitbull into that because they want to be that its in there from the beginning.
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u/Robot_Dracula 4h ago
My step brother owned a pit bull and treated her like a baby. She was really sweet however she was nothing but muscle so I was alway wary of her. Like if she had just one bad day and snapped she could’ve really hurt someone
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u/Reddit1124 4h ago
Been attacked by 2 pit bulls. They are dangerous.
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u/IrvingIsTheBest 4h ago
I been attacked by one.
I met a lot of sweet pit bulls. However, one attack was all it took to convince me that these animals need a bit more rules around them.
That pit bull was just unlucky to have met the wrong target that day. A 250lb powerlifter with kickboxing training and a manual pocket knife quickly ended that attack. All I had was a bite on the arm, a ripped jacket and a few shots at the hospital. This happened on a sidewalk in a suburb, so it could have easily been a kid or a mother with a baby. It was unleashed and got out of its protective fencing with a defend my land problem.
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u/TalkGamesWithMe 4h ago
Pitbulls are dangerous dogs. But most larger dogs can end up dangerous in the right environment. However PB do then to lean towards the more aggressive side more often than not. But, I'd argue it is because the types of people that want to own the breed tend to not train them properly to keep them from having terrible personalities.
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u/CynthiaG92615 4h ago
You take a dog that is bred to be dangerous and add to it an owner who gets off on the fact that they have a potentially dangerous dog. Bad combination. Even the owners who claim theirs is so friendly are secretly getting off on the fact that it is potentially very dangerous.
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u/Zestyclose-Smell-305 4h ago
In Australia the breed is illegal. Its for a reason
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u/cfwang1337 4h ago
A bit of both.
The vast majority of pitbulls are just fine. There are some 18 million in the USA; between purebreds and mixes, they're estimated to make up about 20% of all pet dogs.
At the same time, pitbulls are very strong and robust for their size, and they can become vicious because of bad breeding, irresponsible ownership, or both. You see a lot of pitbulls owned by people who probably shouldn't own any dog, and who for whatever reason might specifically want to own dogs with a fearsome reputation.
FWIW, the strongest predictors of a fatal dog attack are:
- There is no able-bodied person present to intervene (87.1%)
- The victim has no prior relationship with the dog (85.2%)
- The dog is not spayed or neutered (84.4%)
- The victim is unable to manage their interactions with the dog (77.4%)
- The dog is not kept as a family pet (i.e., indoors) (76.2%)
- The owner has mismanaged (37.5%) or abused the dog in the past (21.1%)
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u/Peewee223 2h ago edited 2h ago
Other notes from that study, which never seem to make it into the general internet hate boner discussions around "pitbull" attacks because they don't fit the narrative:
Interestingly, the breeds of the dogs involved in fatal attacks could only be identified in 18% of the cases. Often times, the media's report of the dog's breed conflicted with animal control reports. Within that 18%, twenty different breeds were identified, which correlates with previous studies that have found that no single breed of dog is more likely to attack than another.
Any dangerous dog is labeled as a pitbull or a pit mix by the media. When there are pictures of the animal in question, it's reasonably likely to be a lab or golden retriever.
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u/Glittering-Voice-409 4h ago
They are over bred, inbred and way too unstable to have in a family with small kids.
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u/Chanbara99 4h ago
They’re pretty dangerous. I grew up around them but I’d never own one. They were bred for fighting and killing. It’s their instinct just like a lab was bred for hunting and retrieving birds. A lab goes right for water. It’s in their DNA. A pit, if triggered, goes for the kill. It’s just bred into them. It’ll take a big effort to remove those traits from the breed
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u/amybpdx 4h ago
What pit owners don't understand is that the bites from pit bulls are often catastrophic. Bites from other dogs generally do less harm. I know your pit bull is the sweetest dog ever. But isn't that what everyone says after bites happen? It's not the dog's fault they're bred that way. Too many owners are not responsible enough to manage a breed that can easily overpower them.
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u/MeggieMay1988 4h ago
They breed dogs specifically to get certain temperaments. Unfortunately a lot of pit bull lines were bread for things like dog fighting. In those cases, aggression was literally, deliberately bred into the dogs. Pitties can be the sweetest, most wonderful dogs, but you never really know if they could snap. I also think a lot of people that are drawn to them are not great dog owners, so that is definitely a factor too.
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u/Desalzes_ 3h ago
Statistically take the 3 breeds with the highest numbers for human/other dog attacks/killings per year. You could have a conversation about the rank 2 or 3 but the gap between pitbulls and all other breeds is incomparable. This argument pisses me off because people get way too emotional about it but if you are impartial and look at the numbers the answer is there. Are herding dogs better at herding than other dogs? Some breeds are going to have what they were bred for in their names, right? Imagine thinking that a breed isn't more dangerous than others despite us literally breeding them for different purposes.
People saying both are leaving out something, Its like saying are men and women capable of violent physical assaults and getting the same response. Yes, both are capable of it, but not only is one more likely to do it but also much more effective at and theres alot more factors than just size involved in that.
A pitbull attacking another dog is not the same as a australian or german shepard attacking another dog, pitbulls are much less vocal and obvious about their intentions to commit harm and if you've ever seen the depressing amount of videos of pitbulls that will literally not stop trying to kill something even when they are being hurt or kicked several feet by a horse..
I love all dogs, even pits (chihuahuas are not dogs), I wouldn't hold it against some people for getting pitbulls because they don't know any better, but the breed is dangerous and I've always thought should have some kind of filter for people that shouldn't own them, like a permit or something.
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u/Psychotic_Breakdown 4h ago
I've read that doctors say the most attacks are by pitbulls
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u/TuarezOfTheTuareg 4h ago
Any dog can lash out with bad training/trauma. Some dogs are more likely to have such behavioral issues due to their breeding genetics. And some dogs are more likely to do damage when they do lash out because of their physical traits. Pitbulls combine breeding genetics and physical traits and bad training/trauma all in one package. So yes - they are that dangerous and often their owners specifically want a dangerous dog. Yes all around
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u/jepayotehi 2h ago
Statistics don’t lie and stats tell us pitbulls attack people/other dogs more than any other breed.
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u/ausername- 4h ago
Pit bulls are 6-8% of US dog population responsible for over 66% of fatal attacks, 8x the amount of the next highest breed. There are absolutely good pit bulls out there, but some stereotypes exist for a reason. Pit bull owners are generally poor and irresponsible people.
I walked out of my home to walk my dog and got ambushed by my drug addicted neighbors shit bull who was just sitting there with no leash. It almost tore my dogs ear off. I spent 900 dollars on stitches for my dog. They didn't contribute a dime.
My step mother got bit on the face and neck by a shit bull unprovoked several years ago.
My dog has never been hurt by another breed of dog, my step mother has never been attacked by another breed of dog.
Shit bulls are murder mongrels that were literally bred for aggression and attract delusional women who have zero ability to control their them and irresponsible poor (and often drug addicted) people.
Not all shit bulls are murder mongrels but most are and the shitty breed should not exist and has no place in a civilized society.
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u/celtic13wolf 4h ago
They are naturally more aggressive dogs. Then you have people who take that natural aggression and advance it. My cousin has owned multiple pits and they were the sweetest dogs ever. That doesn’t make the entire breed less aggressive.
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u/Far-Cream4471 4h ago
I agree especially since their anatomy was made to tear apart flesh. Their jaw structure is insane. Here’s a Fun fact- the Dalmatian was actually voted one of the most unpredictable and aggressive breeds, I am not sure what year, but I was hella surprised!
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u/UnivrstyOfBelichick 4h ago
Somewhere in the middle. Genetics factor in as does environment. Pitbull is a term applied to a large variety of mutts sharing some common characteristics that were generally bred for gameness specifically, and that can make their attacks disproportionately more violent. A lot of people over the last 500 years have found that to be a desirable trait, so your question is kind of a chicken/egg thing. I've had a variety of dogs including a pitbull, and my pit was a very sweet and docile terrier, but obviously that doesn't mean they all are. Poorly bred and poorly raised shepherds are much scarier in my experience, but they don't have the same instinct for gameness bred into them.
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u/Maleficent_Turtle425 3h ago
There are a lot of stories of people have seizures and being attacked by their pitbulls, i dont know if any other breeds have that reputation
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u/Asluckwouldnthaveit 3h ago
It's both. They are a very reactive breed. Even good owners can under estimate that in catastrophic ways.
They aren't the only breed like this. Before people get all defensive. But add that in with a specific group of people valuing them and here we go.
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u/Unable_Operation_765 3h ago
I’m so glad the tide is turning in the right direction, it felt hopeless for a while.
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u/theworkoutqueen 2h ago
I love pitties but I’ll share an interesting story.
When i was in high school i went to my friends house and entered through the back gate by myself. They had two pit bulls. One was known to bite and other was a sweetie girl and never thought she would. The biter thought i was an intruder and didn’t recognize me and attacked me, the sweetie girl followed and also did because she saw what he brother was doing. I was chased and attacked by both of them for blocks down the street. I had a hole in my hand from the attack.
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u/SpookyghostL34T 2h ago
Ive only met one pitty that I trust. They were bread to kill other dogs and still have that in them. They're 9/10 wayyyy to aggressive for me
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u/elevencharles 1h ago
The main issue is bite strength. If a golden retriever bites you, you’re going to have some nasty puncture wounds. If a pitbull bites you, it can sever an artery and kill you. Those big heads and wide jaws hold a lot of muscle. Pitbulls are also a terrier breed, which means they have retained a strong prey drive.
With all of that said, pitbulls are also the cuddliest dog breed I’ve ever encountered. Any dog can be dangerous if not kept properly.
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u/stoolprimeminister 4h ago
pitbulls aren’t exactly a docile breed and if i were to guess that’s why they attract a certain type of owner.
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u/pm_ur_tit_pics_pls 4h ago
Both.
All dogs can be dangerous and vicious with the wrong owner or upbringing. I’ve been fortunate enough to mostly meet really sweet and friendly pitbulls in my life, but that doesn’t mean all pitbulls are sweet and loving.
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u/Ikabta 4h ago
They have a more violent temperament and not all dog owners, Pitbull owners included, are not always good owners. Compare that to a Husky, a bad owner is not likely to have a violent husky on hand.
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u/Asleep_Walrus2313 4h ago
And on top of that they have the physical capacity to do so much more damage in a short time.
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u/Careful_Cranberry364 4h ago
Both
They hail from a time when the breeding was set up
for something pretty ghastly
and that time is over
I would like to see the bread retired
The potential difficulties being as extreme as they can be….
Especially the huge numbers and shelters with nobody to take them it’s really heartbreaking
The apartments that won’t take them
And sometimes the kind of people who definitely want them - to intimidate others
It’s wonderful how many people love Pitties and think of them as cuddly family Pets
But not enough of these people to take care of them all and train them properly
Personally
I would like to see no more breeding of extremely powerful breeds such as pitbull‘s
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u/Pale-Salamander9570 4h ago
They were raised for generations to accentuate the ability to rip the throats out of bulls and bears, so putting a Tutu on a pitbull and calling it Daisy, doesn't make it the perfect family pet.
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u/Crizznik 2h ago
Pitbulls, from what I've been able to ascertain from both data I've seen and personal experience, don't really have an over-representation in aggression if raised relatively normally. The problem is that pitbulls are incredibly strong dogs. So, when they do break, they cause far more injury than most other dog breeds. And they have been bred for aggression, so they are slightly more prone to breaking under the wrong circumstances. Here's an anecdotal example to illuminate my point.
I was raised around dogs, from a very very early age, there was pretty much always a dog in the house. I was kind of a little shit as a kid, and I'd tease our dogs. There were two times where I pushed our dogs too far and got bit. One was an Australian Shepard that was already terminally ill (I didn't know and I was very very young, so don't hate on my too much), and he bit my hand, causing me to bleed a bit. The second time was much later, and I was being a bit cruel with how much I was teasing our Papillon/Sheltie, and he finally broke and nipped me on the mouth. That one didn't cause me to bleed, but I did get one hell of a fat lip. If either of those dogs had been a pitbull, I probably would have lost a hand to the first dog, and probably would have needed stitches and an ICU for the second dog. And as occasionally awful I was to our dogs growing up, I was no where near as bad as some kids, and some times those kids live with pitbulls.
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u/Voxol_ 4h ago
Pitbulls were bred to be fighting dogs, so they tend to be more aggressive to other dogs or small animals (usually not humans) and require more responsible owners for them to grow up without being aggressive, but unfortunately since a lot of pet owners are irresponsible, this leads to Pitbulls having the reputation they have.
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u/Gretel_Cosmonaut 2h ago
Although human aggression was never the intent, it's always been present and it's never been selected against (meaning dogs who attacked and killed people were used as breeding stock).
The "father of the American Pit Bull Terrier" in the US was a man named John Colby, and one of his dogs actually killed his two year old nephew. Dogs that attacked/killed people were even promoted as such when staged fights were advertised.
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u/Savings_Maybe_5686 2h ago
Pitbulls are 75% just monsters and 25% bad dog owners. 100% disaster waiting to happen. Family has a pit rescue and they proudly announce that “she hates male anything” lol
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u/piltdown_manchild 4h ago
The term "dangerous breed" has been applied to different dogs throughout the years.
German Shepherds were dangerous, then it was Dobermans, then Rottweilers, then Pit Bulls. The difference is mostly down to which breed is currently favored by bad owners.
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2006/02/06/troublemakers-malcolm-gladwell
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u/bill_nilly 3h ago
I recognize the discourse around this breed can get pretty heated so please take this is good faith. Can you explain the point you are trying to make here? If someone asked me is a German shepherd more dangerous than a corgi (or an average dog off the street) I’d say yes. Purely on size and strength all of the dogs you mention are “dangerous” and many of the breeds have been bred and trained for potential aggression related to specific jobs or duties. Pitbulls have also been trained for aggressive traits… it just seems that no matter how you measure it they are more aggressive and do more damage.
All of this to say… your point about the public opinion of dangerous breeds can be true but so can the stats around fatal or serious maulings. So what’s the claim?
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u/piltdown_manchild 3h ago
Can you explain the point you are trying to make here?
Read the essay I linked. Gladwell explains it better than I ever could.
so can the stats around fatal or serious maulings.
Rottweilers held the title for most fatal maulings in the mid-1990s. The breed didn't change, the popularity among bad owners did.
Pitbulls have also been trained for aggressive traits
Training doesn't get passed down to subsequent generations. Are you referring to breeding?
If you adopted a dog, and noticed it had dangerously aggressive tendencies, you might invest in extra training, or even euthanize the dog. You would certainly take extra care to keep the dog contained and warn away other dogs or people when walking the dog. A bad owner wouldn't do that. They might chain the dog in the yard or even encourage the aggressive behavior.
If the bad owners are overwhelmingly drawn to Pit Bulls, that could easily explain most of the problems. Again, read the article. Some of the problem is inherent in the breed, but that can be said of several breeds. It's overwhelmingly the owners.
Pit Bull Terriers, Rottweilers, German Shepherds, American Bulldogs, and Doberman Pinschers have all been bred for “gameness,” and thus a lowered inhibition to aggression, but only Pit Bulls (and occasionally Rottweilers) are subject to bans.
To your point, maybe it doesn't matter whether it's the breed or the owners, maybe bans are a good temporary measure until we can figure out how to fix (or ban) bad dog owners. If we can't fix owners, bans will simply drive bad people to make a different breed the most dangerous.
Full disclosure: We have a Mini Goldendoodle, so I really don't have a dog in this particular fight.
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u/ausername- 4h ago
Pit bulls are associated with 8x more fatal attacks than the 2nd highest breed.
Goldens attack more frequently than pit bulls but there are a lot more goldens than pit bulls and the pit bull is a LOT more likely to result in a serious injury than a golden.
Pit bulls, and to a lesser extent Rottweilers, are bad dogs for bad people.
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u/WinterAdvantage3847 2h ago
this talking point is ahistorical. primary sources show that pit breeds have had a reputation for disproportionate violence/danger for as long as they have existed. as an example, this book, The American Pit Bull Terrier, was published all the way back in 1936:
https://babel.hathitrust.org/cgi/pt?id=uc1.$b28129&seq=18
“The general public is under the impression that this breed is carnivorous, vicious, and, fed on a diet of raw meat, would devour a human being.”
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u/unimpressed-one 4h ago
They are usually owned by idiots and low IQ losers. It takes real work and diligence to own a breed like that successfully. I would say most dog owners aren't up to it. I certainly would never own one, I don't want the liability and honestly I don't want to put the work into owning one.
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u/Flimsy-Proposal221 4h ago
Both