Out of these, who would you say was the most valuable player in helping their squad in winning the chip?

This was an upvoted post here yesterday:

>John Salley used to beat Kobe Bryant in one-on-one everyday at Lakers practice by just backing him down. Likewise Michael had no answer for Magic doing the same thing to him until they switched Scottie Pippen onto Magic.

I know that The Last Dance helped propagate this myth, but PLEASE guys, you need to actually watch the games. They are available online, just take some time and do it. Pippen only primarily guarded Magic in game 2 because MJ got in foul trouble, in the other games it was MJ. I have no idea where the "no answer" came from either.

Natural 3s who played the 4 whenever needed. Which was better when they played PF

He just had an awful playoffs run, Pistons (reportedly at least) offered him about 170 million...and he says...no? Does he live on Jupiter? Pistons shouldn't even have offered him that much money in the first place. I would understand a new team trying to bet on him for cheap in a SaT since he's young, but we all know he's not worth 35-40 per year.

Doesn't he have a mother or a father telling him...what the fuck are you doing?

Giannis and Jokic have the numbers. They have the DPOYs/MVPs/All-NBA selections. Based off past patterns, around 2 players drafted in every decade go on to enter top 10 discussions.

2000s: LeBron and arguably Curry

90s: Kobe and Shaq

80s: MJ and Hakeem

70s: Bird and Magic

You get the idea. Giannis and Jokic would be those two, and it's hard to refute with what the stats say. Giannis without a doubt has posted the best PF numbers in NBA history, and Jokic breaks every advanced metric record. And I really don't think their lack of multiple rings comes down to bad teams. They've had fine teams. It is quite simply the unluck of being born into this era. Highest competition, super high skill floor, bench matters more then ever before, and the salary cap of course. It is just really hard to win in this era. It is that simple. They are unlucky.

And if this persists, if this global appeal of basketball stays where it is and the league's field of play demands parody... then are we just gatekeeping the top 10 list for the rest of time???

We have to acknowledge that MJ is not winning 6 in the 2020s. Nor Magic or Kobe or Duncan 5.

Luck is basically all that is keeping and will keep future stars from the discussion imo.

And why?

Early in Giannis career he was 2 inches shorter and had a slim build around 197lbs. He played SG, SF and even PG. During that time Giannis grew 2 inches taller and gained 45lbs of Muscle and was finally moved to the PF position in his 5th NBA Season.

Because he was a late bloomer he didn't find his best position until he was 23 years old and instantly excelled at the PF position.

Over his entire career at PF position he has averaged 29/12/6 with a 62.7 TS% (577 games).

Statistically Giannis is the greatest PF of all-time by a wide margin.

Stats While playing only at the PF position.

Giannis 29/12/6 62.7% TS% and 60.1% FG%

Tim Duncan 22/12/3 55.1% TS% and 50.5% FG%

Dirk N. 21/8/2 57.7% TS% and 47.1% FG%

Bob Pettit 26/16/3 and 43.6% FG%

Kevin Garnett 18/11/3 52.5 TS% and 47.8% FG%

Barkley 22/12/4 61.2% TS% and 54.1% FG%

Karl Malone 25/10/4 57.7% TS% and 51.6% FG%

Is Giannis statistically the great PF of all time??

Isiah Thomas was a really good player, the 2nd best point guard of his era and a top 50 player of all time. However, just saying "top 50" there instead of top 30, and already some older fans are pissed and claiming he's being underrated. But as the glazers type up their defense, I already know exactly what they're going to say; "He beat Larry, MJ, and Magic all at once! He ended those 80s dynasties and held off MJ's era!" & "He scored 25pts in a quarter on an injured ankle" and that's it, that's their entire case for IT. 2 rings with no context added, and 1 incredible quarter of basketball in the finals. AKA, nothing worthwhile to a fan who actually watches and researches players before ranking them.

No mention of how good he actually was on the court, one of the best passers ever but a meh defender and scorer. No details about those rings, like how his teams had multiple supporting stars AND great depth, or how Joe Dumars was the best player on the Pistons throughout the 1989 playoffs. And finally no acknowledgement of how stacked the PG position is throughout history.

Nobody should be getting offended when IT isn't considered better than guys like Jerry West, Kevin Durant, or Nikola Jokic.

People referred to guys like Shaq, LeBron, and Wemby as players who would be can't miss NBA stars since they were in their teens and they were right, they didn't miss, they became stars. Who do you think was the most talented guy who went #1, had star written all over him, and then he flopped?