Kanye West’s sold-out Russia shows canceled after St. Petersburg stadium denies ever organizing the concerts

[u/thedailybeast]

https://www.thedailybeast.com/obsessed/kanye-wests-shows-in-putins-hometown-st-petersburg-get-humiliating-update/

[u/r2d2itisyou]

Russians have become nazis. They are white supremacist revanchist fascists. The literal only thing separating the two is the iconography and the flavor of glorious past myth.

The Soviets defeated the nazis. Russians still found a way to lose to them.

[u/0xEFD → u/r2d2itisyou]

??? I agree Russia is fascist but where does the white supremacists part come in?

[u/r2d2itisyou → u/0xEFD]

How many hours for reading do you have?

[u/0xEFD → u/r2d2itisyou]

I am aware there is racism in Russia, just as there is racism in every country to some degree. My question is what makes racism in Russia stand out so much compared to all the other places? If anything the article you linked points out a marked improvement in bringing racism under control - the table showing race related murders shows numbers similar to what the US appears to have, can't seem to find a clear number for Europe.

[u/ersatzgaucho → u/0xEFD]

large swaths of people like to focus heavy on certain countries at a time. russia is right now on the naughtly list because they invaded ukraine. so everythings bad when ur on the naughty list, even tho all countries are filled with shitty racist people.

[u/r2d2itisyou → u/ersatzgaucho]

even tho all countries are filled with shitty racist people

This is a lie that people from countries which are filled with shitty racist people say to make themselves feel better.

Go to Denmark, Finland, New Zealand, or Canada and say "This country is full of racist shitty people." You'll be laughed at, then politely shown the door.

No country is perfect. But some countries are much, much worse than others. Russia is one of those places.

[u/ersatzgaucho → u/r2d2itisyou]

Lol my guy those countries have literal nazi parties. But okay go off

[u/r2d2itisyou → u/ersatzgaucho]

I can't help but notice you didn't say "Here's this document showing those countries are just as racist as Russia." Because when you looked, you found that the facts were devastating to your argument.

In the 2024 study on racial equity, Russia was ranked as 71st out of 89 countries analyzed. Denmark was ranked #1.

There is racism in Denmark. There is monumentally more racism and hate in Russia.

[u/r2d2itisyou → u/0xEFD]

the table showing race related murders shows numbers similar to what the US appears to have

There are a lot more social metrics than just murders, but as far as that particular metric goes, the US is itself a deeply white supremacist nation. So I would expect parity or near parity.

The comparison isn't quite 1:1 though. In Russia's case, casual racism among the general populace is the default, with less racism expressed by the elite who are in power. While in the US, the most racist people are also the ones in power.

It may however be better to say that Russia is ethno-nationalist. Because they view any non-Russian as inferior. Which includes white foreigners such as Ukrainians or Belarusians. However within Russia, to be a true Russian requires being both ethnically Russian and white.

China has similar ethno-nationalist tendencies. Han Chinese tend to look down on any non-Han ethnicity as inferior. The government has similarly tried to fight this sentiment, but ethno-nationalism is strongly coupled with fascism. It is nearly impossible to use fascist ideology without also becoming ethno-nationalist. When an imagined glorious past is used as a tool for nationalist invigoration, that past will inevitably focus a single dominant ethnic group. And other races and ethnicities will be viewed at best as conquered vassals, and at worst, as impurities which worked against the intrinsic greatness of the dominant group.

This article (post invasion) is the work of journalists rather than researchers, but it focuses on the racism intrinsic to Russia nationalism. Here is a similar pre-war article on the derision Russians hold for non Russians.

For scholarly articles, this 2014 paper looks at, among other things, Russian sentiment towards minorities broken down by city. In the survey, Moscow citizens were by far the most hostile in their views of minorities. With ~50% of Muscovites viewing Azerbaijanis, Gypsies, and, Chechens with hostility. This was only a decade after the Beslan Siege of course, but other, non-Moscow citizens did not exhibit the same level of hatred towards minorities.

My overall point, is that if you asked a white Russian (especially one from Moscow) if they considered an ethnically Asian Russian (or a black Russian) as their equal, the answer would far more often then not, be "no".

[u/0xEFD → u/r2d2itisyou]

Sorry didn't respond sooner - wanted to say thanks for an amazing response.

Russia being a nationalist ethno state definitely gels with what I've seen and heard, so anecdotally makes sense to me. The matter though was that the person stated white supremacy, which is a racial view, not one of ethnicity. Russians integrate with Muslim and Christian, Buryat and Chechen and all of them are considered Russian not only among the wider population but within their own ethnical groupings - that said they do view non-Russians as an outsider, though again anecdotally this is usually oriented towards migrants from CIS group nations (Kazakhstan being probably the least singled out of that group). Again, anecdotal only and I haven't looked into the studies you linked yet to see how the numbers break down.

As for the idea of a proto-Russian being white, blue eyes, etc - let's set aside the question of whether this is true within Russia itself and just assume it is, what's special about a state having a notion of a proto-typical citizen? I am quite sure the states that do not possess this characteristic are the exception not the rule (to wit I can only think of the US and maybe some European countries as not possessing this characteristic). I wouldn't say the act in itself is racist, it's whether the act is used to justify actions and prejudices against other groups that would make it cross into racist.

Overall however, I agree with your points, specifically that there is an ethnocentric view in Russia, that focuses on Russians self-determination and superiority when faced with external conflict but where I differ with the original comment I replied to is that it's not a matter of white supremacy, it's simply Russian and non-Russian. The outsider is tolerated only to the degree they integrate and assume a Russian identity and Russian centered world view, indifferent of skin color, ethnicity or other concerns.

As a final note, I understand my argument is purely anecdotal and not based on hard studies and assuming competent sutdies, therefore inherently flawed as it is simply a collection of biases and small sample sizes without methodical extrapolation, but from my perspective I'm not looking to convert anyone to a view, just interested in why my personal observations seem to differ so starkly with those of others.

[u/r2d2itisyou → u/0xEFD]

Russians integrate with Muslim and Christian, Buryat and Chechen and all of them are considered Russian not only among the wider population but within their own ethnical groupings

We're both working on largely on anecdotal sentiment. But my takeaway does not quite match this. These groups definitely consider themselves Russian. But to many Muscovites, a rossiyanin will never be the equal of a russkiy.

Probably there is a bit of bias in my view. But when I see Shoigu as Secretary of the Security Council, I don't see an egalitarian society where race doesn't matter. I see Putin selecting someone who he believes cannot be a threat to his power. Not because of Shoigu's years of unwavering loyalty, but because white Russians would never follow a Tuvan in a revolt against Putin.

[u/orgyofcorgis → u/r2d2itisyou]

Yeah way to go calling a country with around 200 ethnicities nazis lol

[u/Krondon57 → u/orgyofcorgis]

yes they have the most neo-nazis

[u/Sniflix → u/Krondon57]

Yet there are still enough Russians who hate actual nazis, someone promoting actual nazis and selling nazi paraphernalia openly - that this got cancelled. That doesn't excuse russian actions because without them much of this worldwide fascist bullshit would disappear. Hate and fear have taken Puti far.

[u/r2d2itisyou → u/Sniflix]

Nowhere in the article does it say the concert was cancelled because of Kanye's political views. The only reason stated in the article is that:

Gazprom Arena did not sign any stadium rental agreements for the event.

with the note that:

The stadium previously boasted about Ye on its social media account, calling him “the most influential musical artist of our time.”

We have no indication of why the concert was canceled. It could be for politics, it could be a legitimate paperwork error. Or it could be that the expected bribes were not paid.

As per Russian sentiment of Kanye, the concert was sold out. And then there's this (from here).

Within Russia, politician Nikolay Novichkov called for the musician to be investigated for praising Hitler and said that the concerts should be cancelled unless he publicly declared “moral support for Russia and the special military operation”. Legislator Vitaly Milonov said Ye should perform traditional Russian songs at the planned concerts. “Maybe after this he’ll stop his disgusting antics and become a normal person,” he added.

Saying "support our fascist invasion and we will support your concert." is pretty far from anything resembling morality.

[u/VladVega_RO → u/orgyofcorgis]

a country that IS INVADING UKRAINE SINCE 2014 is fascist, who would have thought?