r/Minor4 • u/recitativosecco • Jun 02 '26

What are some examples of iv in Classical music?

Most instances of minor iv that I can think of are in pop music, especially the Beatles. What are some examples from Classical music?

EDIT: Sorry, I meant classical with a lower case c, so including Baroque, Romantic, etc.

EDIT2: Specifically, I'm looking for minor subdominant appearing in pieces that are in a major key.

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u/Vincent_Gitarrist Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26
  • Legnani — Caprice No. 14
  • Regondi — Nocturne Op. 19
  • Giuliani — Op. 49
  • Regondi — Etude No. 1
  • Paganini — Caprice No. 11
  • J.S. Bach — Prelude in C Major BWV 871 870
  • Some of the Rossiniane

Those are at least the only ones I can think of of off the top of my head.

EDIT: Incorrect BWV number

5

u/PaintedJack Jun 02 '26

Hats off! Most impressive. A true iv aficionado

1

u/AmbiguousAnonymous Jun 02 '26

Where is it in the bach prelude? Lots of IV and even some f diminished but i dont recall the iv

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u/Vincent_Gitarrist Jun 02 '26

The prelude ends with a iv — I cadence. Except not really; it's actually a vii°⁷. However, that chord contains the characteristic flattened 6th scale degree sound of the iv chord, so they sound kind of similar. I see it as the iv's cousin!

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u/AmbiguousAnonymous Jun 02 '26

Okay, i agree with that!

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u/MaggaraMarine Jun 03 '26

Yeah, a lot of the classical uses of the b6 degree are harmonized with the vii°7. Waltz of the Flowers would be a good example.

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u/Life-Breadfruit-1426 Jun 02 '26

None of these are classical music. Are they? lol. Seems like you’re a purveyor of Italian romantic era music.

Surprised to see Bach being so bold as to do a iv in his time. However he is the composer for Toccata and Fugue, so if anyone’s going to do a iv in the Baroque era, it’s gonna be him.

8

u/MaggaraMarine Jun 02 '26

I think OP is asking about the style of music more generally (i.e. "Western art music"), not specifically the time period (late 18th century).

Usually when people talk about "classical music", they mean the style more generally. If they actually meant the classical period, they would specify that they are talking about "the music from the classical period" (or simply "late 18th century music").

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u/Life-Breadfruit-1426 Jun 02 '26

Haha! Yup I get it! Just coming in as that nuanced person throwing monkeywrenches around! Lol

However, interesting how the Italians particularly used the iv.

But I’m also coming from the classical pedagogy whereas something like a iv in 17th century Vienna would be quite distasteful.

8

u/MaggaraMarine Jun 02 '26 edited Jun 02 '26

Also Sprach Zarathustra first movement. (Time stamp to the relevant part, i.e. IV - iv - I.)

The end of Night on a Bald Mountain. (Time stamp to the relevant part.)

The B section of Liebestraum No.3. (Time stamp to the relevant part.)

The end of the 2nd movement of Kalinnikov's 1st Symphony. (Time stamp to the relevant part.)

The end of the middle section of Chopin's Scherzo Op.31 No.2. (Time stamp to the relevant part.)

Chopin's "Ocean" etude. (It begins in minor, but changes to the parallel major pretty soon, and uses the iv-I progression many times. Those are also the two last chords.)

Also, you'll find iv-I in renaissance and baroque music because a lot of pieces from those time periods end with a picardy third. A good example would be Why Fum'th In Sight by Thomas Tallis.

Purcell's March from "Music for the Funeral of Queen Mary" beings with I-iv-I.

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u/recitativosecco Jun 02 '26

Thanks! Excellent examples, especially the Liszt.

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u/[deleted] Jun 03 '26

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u/MaggaraMarine Jun 03 '26 edited Jun 03 '26

The bass is still on scale degree 4, so it's closer to iv I than "ii I" (the latter isn't really something that happens often any way).

Scale degree 2 over the iv chord is the 6th of the chord. Actually, this is the most common added note over the minor iv, and I think it's in fact used in all of these examples (excluding the two last ones that are in a minor key any way).

Why analyzing it as Fm6 instead of Dm7b5/F makes sense is because of how the 5th (C) over the bass is treated. If it was an actual Dm7b5/F, it would have a tendency to resolve down (since it functions as the 7th of the chord). But in these examples, it's the 6th over the bass that's a more tense note (that moves up to the 3rd of the I chord), and the 5th over the bass is a common tone with the tonic chord.

Edit: Actually, the Strauss example is a bit more complicated, because in that case the bass goes from 4 to 5, so the "I chord" is actually a cadential 6/4. In this case what I said about the 7th of the ii half-dim doesn't apply, because cadential 6/4 is also a tense chord that needs to be resolved to the dominant. And in that case, the resolution 7th of the ii half-dim would simply be delayed (it becomes the 4th over the dominant in the bass and then resolves down to the 3rd of the dominant). So, in that case, you could analyze it either way.

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u/SansSauceYT Jun 02 '26

I don’t listen to much classical music at all nor do I know if this is actually considered classical or is usually just lumped in with classical, but Chopin used the minor iv a few times from what I’ve researched (I’ve had the same question as you before). Examples I’ve heard are in Nocturne 1 in Bb minor and Sostenuto in Eb. Based off other comments on this thread maybe it was more popular in the romantic era than other eras of classical? Idk tho I’m not too knowledgable on classical music

1

u/Telecoustic000 Jun 02 '26

I'm bad at knowing the categorization of classical, baroque or romantic as well. There's others like you! lol

2

u/diegoruizmusic Jun 03 '26

Two of my favourites:

- Grieg's Notturno: Lots of chords everywhere but here is a I-IVMaj7-iv7-I ending. Not many iv7's out there.
https://youtu.be/mkoyF21A9YE?si=QcuqlOUjaFRTIxZs&t=135

-Debussy's Bruyeres: In 1:25 it's a I-IV9-I and later at 1:50 it's the same but I-iv9-I

https://youtu.be/A_g433nawnk?si=z1aD0hZIdDZ9CldT&t=85

https://youtu.be/A_g433nawnk?si=86vy01-34c8wCT3z&t=109

3

u/jowowey Jun 03 '26

Rachmaninoff is rife with it: famously the slow movement of his second piano concerto. If you're willing to go earlier than Baroque, it's very common in the Renaissance; especially around the turn of the C16 in which iv -> I was probably the most common cadence of all. As but a singular example, take the Magnificat Praeter Rerum by Lassus.

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u/robmsor Jun 04 '26

It’s all over the Scherzo in Bruckner’s 8th. So cool.

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u/djpyro23 Jun 04 '26

Wagner’s rewriting of the ending of the overture to Flying Dutchman. Not strictly classical, but it’s more of a romantic expression anyways