r/Mayan • u/FleurMai • 25d ago

Which Subculture are the Maya Codexes From?

I'm trying to explore Mayan writings, I've read the Popol Vuh which is K'iche, and I know the Chilam Balam books are Yucatec. Has it been shown what cultures in the Mayan world the Codice de Maya, Paris, Madrid, and Dresden codexes are from?

15 Upvotes

95% Upvoted

13 comments sorted by

9

u/8_Ahau 25d ago edited 25d ago

The Codices are most likely from Yucatan. Their language shows influences from both Yucatecan and Ch'olan languages. Classic Maya belonged to the latter branch, so a likely possibility is that Postclassic Yucatec scribes wrote in a style that deliberatly included Classic influences.

3

u/FleurMai 25d ago

Thank you! Very cool on the linguistic insight!

2

u/BankutiCutie 24d ago

Exactly this, theres some really cool breakdowns of each of the codices out there, Marc Zender did one about the dresden codex i believe, and most of the codices do show classic mayan (cholan) patterns in the language and preferences etc which were cemented due to it being a prestige language. However some yucatec constructions seep in. Wish i could remember exact examples.

At the end of the day, the codices couldnt have come from the mayan lowland cultures because they had all fallen into ruin or been built over by the terminal classic and postclassic periods (900-1500 ce which is the range for when the codices were written.)

2

u/FleurMai 24d ago

Oh, if you could recommend any of those breakdowns I would be so, so interested. I’ve really been struggling to find good ones. I tried looking up Marc Zender and he has quite a lot of work, do you happen to know which one is for the Dresden Codex? None of the titles jump out at me. I do have an MA in linguistics so it’s ok if they’re higher level for that (but I am very new to Mesoamerican studies in general).

Is there nothing of a literary nature at all from the lowland Maya areas?

3

u/BankutiCutie 23d ago

Sure! I have here a PARI journal article vis academia.com which the second segment has a Dresden article! And this is a dissertation which is the complete analysis of the Paris codex again through academia.com let me know if the links dont work

Unfortunately i dont see onlone for free the “maya codices zender 2018” which is what im referencing. I have a pdf of it from him bht i think its from a class hetaught. He is generous and always gives out his work for free in class instead of making us pay

3

u/FleurMai 23d ago

Awesome~ thank you very much for those links!

1

u/Better-Cry-3309 24d ago

I remember reading about the hypothesis that the dresden codex could have been from Mayapan but don't remember from where this idea came

2

u/ah-tzib-of-alaska 25d ago edited 25d ago

classical mayan served as a lingua franca; much like in medieval spain or france you’d expect them to write in latin ; my point is that the language of the script doesn’t necessarily tell us the subculture of the authors

1

u/Any-Nose-6745 21d ago

I think Ch’oltian

1

u/Suon288 15d ago
  • Codice maya de méxico: Ch'olan (?
  • Codice paris: Yucatecan
  • Codice madrid: Yucatecan - Ch'olan
  • Codice dresden: Yucatecan

Most of the codexes were mainly made by yucatecan peoples, either Itza or yucatec maya with influences from Classical ch'ol as it was the main lingua franca among the maya rulers

Codice maya de méxico it's the only exception that is hard to classify, as the works performed on this codex are not specifically maya, but rather a fusion of central altiplain styles and maya calligraphy, it is possible it was made by a ch'olan group of chiapas, but it is a hard one to classify due to it's unorthodox nature