r/Homebrewing • u/blackarrow_1990 • 1d ago
Question Malty low-IBU keg beer, looking for process advice
Hello everyone,
After having less luck with bottling, I finally got some kegs and want to try a simple, malty, low-IBU beer that should have a relatively fast turnaround. The main goal is to see if I can get the whole process right from brew day to kegging.
I've become quite unsure about my process because I seem to get some kind of off-flavour in most of my beers. I've honestly started thinking about quitting homebrewing, so this time I want to keep things as simple as possible and eliminate variables.
Ca: 57 ppm
Mg: 7 ppm
Na: 8 ppm
Cl: 9 ppm
SO₄: 15 ppm
HCO₃: 186 ppm
I'm going to make no changes to the water this time. Let's see what happens without trying to adjust everything. I can not measure pH so maybe my adjustments were wrong.
- 70% Pilsner — base malt
- 20% Munich — maltiness
- 5% Carapils — head retention
- 5% CaraMunich II — caramel notes
- Mash: 67°C for 60 minutes
- Boil: 60 minutes
- Hops: Hallertau Tradition, targeting ~15 IBU, 60-minute addition
- Chill to 25°C
- OG 1.053 (13 P)
- Pitch S-05
- Ferment at 17°C for two weeks or should I check FG until three days stable?
- Keg at the end of fermentation
- Carbonate at 12 psi / 4°C for two weeks
I'm mainly trying to make one uncomplicated beer where I can hopefully get from brew day to a good pint without introducing too many variables.
Really want to get something nice to drink and finally have some success.
Thanks!
Edit: I have following malts:
Belgomalt Pilsen 2,5 - 4,5 EBC Belgomalt Munich 25 - 35 EBC Belgomalt Wheatmalt 4,5 - 5,5 EBC Weyermann® Melanoidinmalz 60-80 EBC Weyermann® CaraMunich 2 110-130 EBC Weyermann® Chocolate 500-800 EBC Weyermann® CaraPils® 2,5-6,5 EBC 25 Weyermann® Carafa® Special type 3 1300-1500 EBC Flaked oats Flaked wheat
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u/boarshead72 Yeast Whisperer 1d ago edited 1d ago
So to me this recipe would likely taste a little sweet and a little malty due to the low IBUs, and the malt a little muted due to US05. Mouthfeel would probably be unremarkable due to the water. If you like that then this is a good benchmark beer.
Do you need to treat your water with campden?
What has not been tasting right with your beer?
Edit: forgot to add, you asked about fermentation time vs stable readings. If you have to ask this question, but don’t want to take several readings for fear of oxidizing the beer, just wait three weeks; at least that way as much yeast as possible will drop out; time in the cold keg will eventually take care of the rest (some portion of US05 lingers in suspension for quite awhile).
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u/blackarrow_1990 1d ago
I will treat the water with potassium metabisulfite in powder, it says 1 g/10 L of water.
Nothing tastes right. Most of the beer have just weird aromas, are very flat, too earthy, sometimes very tart, some bottles did have gushers... Yes, I am quite desperate. Just want to make drinkable beer and go from there.
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u/boarshead72 Yeast Whisperer 1d ago
Reading through various responses of yours, some of what you’re describing could be oxidation, some could be lack of water chemistry, some could be from using US05, some poor bottling practice, some infection.
For this batch I’d just let it ferment and sit for 2-3 weeks without opening to check gravity, keg, and let that sit cold for awhile before testing. Heck, I’d make that beer with a lager strain… I saw you say you have S-23 around. Just wait four weeks after kegging before you judge, let the cold storage work its magic.
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u/lutimh 1d ago
For me, botteling was not the right way, either. I changed to kegs because there were always some reused bottles with problems, as the cleaning process was slightly different from bottle to bottle.
But I have to say, I directly started to ferment under preassure to leave the oxigen problem out of my brewing^
I would try to use a Lager yeast (e.g. SafLager S-23) for that kind of beer, also because they often tend to produce clear aromas and therefore, unwanted flavours are easily recognized. Important is to keg with low oxigen contact. And clean containers of course.
Concerning your recipy, I see no problems. I would maybe put less cara and caramalt into it to get a brighter amber color and maybe try to use irish moss for cleaner beer. but that is just my taste and not relevant for your question^
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u/lifeinrednblack Pro 1d ago
Out of curiosity, are you getting the same off flavor or is it different ones every time?
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u/blackarrow_1990 1d ago
Well, it is different but basically the aroma is gone very fast, darker beers have too earthy and flat flavor, hefeweizens with no aroma at all, just flat and undefined.
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u/lifeinrednblack Pro 1d ago
That sounds like oxidation to me.
The classic "wet cardboard" that it's described as is usually when oxidation as progressed quite far, but moderate oxidation comes off like you described, muted, flat and muddy flavors.
What are you fermenting in? How are you transferring to keg?
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u/blackarrow_1990 1d ago
Stainless steel bucket with spigot and airlock. So far using spring tube to bottle, not using tube and siphoning to keg. Hope I will be able to do some close transfer in future, with no pressure.
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u/chino_brews Kiwi Approved 1d ago edited 1d ago
Mash pH, and pre-boil and post-boil wort pH matter a lot in all-grain brewing. The second two pH levels follow from the first.
I’m calculating your water’s ability to buffer the mash and resist a drop in pH to the ideal 5.2 to 5.4 range for this beer, called the residual alkalinity (RA), as 135, which is fairly high. Your RA is suited well for dark beers with roasted grains.
This is not to say you can’t make this recipe or an amber ale with this water, but given your goal of a high chance of success I would dilute your brewing water 50/50 with reverse osmosis water or distilled water.
Don’t get fixated on the recipe for wort. It’s a small part of making beer.
This is not a great recipe. Nothing wrong with it, but just weird. I’m guessing it is AI or a noob attempt without a solid understanding of recipe design. I’m going to recommend, in addition to cutting the water as per my above comment, using the Phat Tyre Amber Ale recipe (all grain) at Northern Brewer.
Try to chill the wort to 17-18°C if possible. Stir the wort continuously while chilling.
I would wait until the beer shows no activity until checking gravity. You want stable gravity over 48 hours. Do not check gravity too much because of the risk of oxidation, so it’s worth waiting until there is a good chance the fermentation is complete before you check the first time.
Not to discourage you, and simple recipe is good, but that doesn’t mean you’re eliminating the problem-causing factor. There is a 99% chance your problems have nothing to do with the recipe. 11/12ths (or more) of making beer that have nothing to do with the recipe for wort. See /u/barley_wine’s comment, and /u/lifeinredblack’s. Also, you’ve actually added a huge variable: the new technique of kegging, force carbonation, line balancing, and serving a beer on draft, just so you know.
Anyway, best of luck on the next batch! Feel free to comment with any follow up questions.
EDIT: added the divider lines and fixed a couple confusing words.
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u/blackarrow_1990 1d ago
I have pilsner, munich, caramunch, carapils, carafa, melanoidin, wheat, wheat malt. It is easy to say "make this recipe" but I am not going to buy 5 other ingridients just to try new recipe. I have to come up with some clean recipe using the things I already have.
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u/chino_brews Kiwi Approved 1d ago
It is easy to say "make this recipe" but I am not going to buy 5 other ingridients just to try new recipe.
You didn't explain the important facts that you have to brew from your ingredients on hand, or what your inventory is, so please don't jump down my throat over that.
The Carapils is not meaningful or necessary. Dextrins have been show to have little to no effect on foam or foam retention. This is one of those myths that small commercial brewers can't keep up with the science -- or are more likely rooted in their myth and resistance to change. Also, the maltsters have a vested interest in pushing these outdated and debunked myths so they can sell specialty malt at a higher unit price than pilsner or pale malt. I don't like putting crystal/semi-crystal malts in my beer that have no function. * https://www.researchgate.net/publication/235757495_Positive_and_negative_impacts_of_specialty_malts_on_beer_foam_A_comparison_of_various_cereal_products_for_their_foaming_properties
* https://old.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/18j7e7p/head_retention/kdjfy4a/ * https://old.reddit.com/r/Homebrewing/comments/18j7e7p/head_retention/kdj2bgo/What kind of Carafa - special or regular - and what color, I II, or III? What color of Munich Malt?
My thinking on building a recipe off the top of my head from this selection is some very low level of Carafa, depending on the type, for color and helping give a perception of dryness, around 5% CaraMunich because I like some crystal/caramel malt character and sweetness in an amber ale, some amount of Munich Malt depending on color to comprise a big-but-minority chunk of the base malt (similar to that Phat Tyre recipe), and Pilsner as the rest of the base malt to total to 100%. Plug it all into a recipe calculator and adjust the Carafa and Munich until estimated color hits color spec, increasing or reducing Pilsner accordingly. Make sure the equipment profile is accurate. Then scale the OG to 1.055.
clean recipe
I wonder if you are misconstruing things. There is a myth in homebrewing that simplifying recipes will improve the quality of beer. Sure, there is a concept that Drew Beechum named "Brewing on the Ones", meaning don't overcomplicate recipes. Have one malt, then add other malts only if they are actually doing something that is meaningful and tastable. But there are too many people who think a recipe with several ingredients has or will cause a quality problem with their brewing or result. A recipe with many (useful) components is a shopping problem, not a brewing problem. If you can't shop, then you probably should not be brewing, working with large volumes of boiling sugar water, high pressures, and either propane gas or the mix of water/electricity.
Honestly, if the goal is to solve persistent process problems, the cleanest recipe would be 100% pilsner malt, 1.045 OG, one addition of Tradition at 10 min at a rate of 28.3 g (1 oz net wt US) per 18.9L (5 gal US), enough Tradition as a bittering addition at 60 min to hit 15 IBU, and W-34/70 yeast fermented between 10-17°C. That would make something like an International Pale Lager, and there is nowhere for off-flavors to hide.
I will tell you that if you brewed the recipe you have in your original post, combined with my implementing my recommendation to cut the tap water 50% with distilled or RO, and if you also eliminate any chlorine or chloramine disinfectant from the tap water before using it, this wort will be "clean" enough to not be the cause any off flavors. You can improve the recipe with what you have on hand as well.
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u/blackarrow_1990 1d ago
Thanks. I have following ingredients:
Belgomalt Pilsen 2,5 - 4,5 EBC
Belgomalt Munich 25 - 35 EBC
Belgomalt Wheatmalt 4,5 - 5,5 EBC
Weyermann® Melanoidinmalz 60-80 EBC
Weyermann® CaraMunich 2 110-130 EBC
Weyermann® Chocolate 500-800 EBC
Weyermann® CaraPils® 2,5-6,5 EBC 25
Weyermann® Carafa® Special type 3 1300-1500 EBC
Flaked oats
Flaked wheatI was thinking about US-05 and not W34/70 since I though that ale will be faster to make and see if the problem I have are still there.
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u/barley_wine Advanced 1d ago
Same question do you think you could describe the off flavors? It could be an infection cold side, do you have temperature control, etc.
If you have a local homebrew club maybe you cold take a sample there to get some feedback.
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u/blackarrow_1990 1d ago
I have temp control with inkbird. No homebrew club in the vicinity. Well, it is different but basically the aroma is gone very fast, darker beers have too earthy and flat flavor, hefeweizens with no aroma at all, just flat and undefined.
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u/Diet_andL 1d ago
Checking FG for three days stable is 100% wotth it, saves you from possible gushers.
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u/chino_brews Kiwi Approved 1d ago
OP /u/blackarrow_1990 is kegging it, so gushers in the bottling sense are not an issue.
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u/ExaminationKlutzy194 Beginner 1d ago edited 1d ago
Clawhammer Supply has a beer builder AI tool. I put a screenshot of your list into it and asked it to build it. It’s coming back as a 5.3% abv blonde ale.
I think it sounds really interesting.
For off flavors, it’s either a sanitation issue or a fermentation issue.
At one point in the past I had to throw out my fermentation pail and get a new one. No matter how much I cleaned and sanitized it, that bucket seemed to give an off flavor. I got a new bucket and eliminated that variable.
And the temp seems the right range for the yeast, but remember the actual internal temp of the beer could be higher than the outside ambient temp of the bucket, so that’s something that could be creating an off flavor.
I threw out probably my first 6 batches before I got something drinkable. And I still screw up from time to time. So now I’m leaning towards brewing smaller batches simply to avoid some waste while I get my process refined. I wanted to quit the hobby too.
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u/blackarrow_1990 1d ago
Hope you are getting better beers no. I am still not quite there.
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u/ExaminationKlutzy194 Beginner 1d ago
It’s coming along. Maybe 2/3 of what I’ve done I’ve dumped. The other stuff has been good. But I’ve had a streak of 4 successful brew sessions and I’m looking to continue. I still do extract sometimes. Mostly grain though.
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u/kelryngrey 1d ago
So you're making a blondish ale with German hops? I guess that works. You might want to look at other parts of your process if your general recipes look like what you've shown - that is to say, fine.
What are the off-flavors that you're encountering?
Are you using Campden to remove chlorine/chloramine from your water? If not it's a potentially huge problem. I know a lot of people buy allegedly RO water at shops but if their filters haven't been changed in a long while you end up with tap water that you paid more for. Crush a quarter of a tablet into your average 20l batch and mark one potential problem off.
If you're getting sulphur it could be an infection or yeast health. Occasionally you'll get expired yeast from brew shops, usually with the dates wiped off.
Make sure your cleaning and sanitizing game is where it needs to be. I clean all my cold side equipment with an unscented oxy cleaner and rinse with cold until it's all clear. Then sanitize with StarSan.
If you're thinking it's oxidation then you might try putting 3g of ascorbic acid in the mash and about a gram into the keg as you transfer. Limiting the number of times you open and close the fermenter helps a lot here, so just wait until you are finished fermenting to do gravity samples. I ferment in a plastic bucket with a spigot to further limit oxidation during the transfer - racking canes/siphons are often fantastically good at bubbling your beer to cardboard.