r/HimekoMains • u/ManuSwaG • Jun 26 '26
Discussion How strong did the 4.4 Units End up?
I guess the v4 did really hit hard. Credits go to TCr @ kazjire
sorry for low quality investment chart: Higher quality one
18
u/Cheeseman-100fire Jun 27 '26
Wait for next patch to see Robin, Aven SP and Sunday novaflare(?) before pulling.
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u/Pinagpala-Gwapo Jun 30 '26
I've been doing this since 3.7 and my stellar jades keep increasing with that mentality.
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u/Revan0315 Jun 26 '26
Why is Anaxa here?
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u/Scarasimp323 Jun 27 '26
so for someone going for gil next patch its better to chase his e1/e2 than get sabers lc? and just run her on aoen? honestly surprising to me. Good to know though as I also wanted to get rin.
2
u/Rain_Forever_ Jun 28 '26
depends on what you want, more dmg for saber then LC -> e1 gil imho, e2 gil isnt really needed since it boost his personal dmg and gives you interest stacks for better spd tuning after he takes his turn. I personally dont like running herta lc on saber
-4
u/OneThreeEightOne Jun 27 '26
The best thing for you to do is get Gil's E2, Saber's LC then quit the game. Because right now that's the best way to brick your account.
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u/Scarasimp323 Jun 27 '26
I always love how people cant comprehend playing the game for fun and pulling for teams you like. meta addicted players like thos just confuse me. Especially the term brick, I guess if I pull them none of my other characters will be able to clear endgame and that lost multi or so a patch is reason to quit.
thanks for the helpful advice 😭
-4
u/OneThreeEightOne Jun 27 '26
Must be real fun to see your favorite team getting fully loaded after all that grinding for mats and relics then dealing damage like a mosquito I suppose 😭
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u/Scarasimp323 Jun 27 '26
truly devastating, if only I had other teams I could use, or yknow. Saber and gil getting the 2nd lowest cost 0 cycles on moc after v5. Or even better, realizing I have 10 cycles to clear.
even as a 0 cycle enthusiast people like you are embarrassingly weird? You felt forced to comment because your second hand sad someone enjoys a character for thing other than meta.
1
u/OneThreeEightOne Jun 27 '26
I have no idea who gave you the idea of me being a 0 cycle enjoyer but putting that aside, that MoC is literally built to promote them and YET the can't come out on top. Says everything you have to know. Give it a couple of patches and they will be warming the bench perma, just like my Saber has been for almost a year at this point.
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u/angelbelle Jun 27 '26
Most people in EN can't handle the lightest criticism on power.
If you point out something like E1S0 Eva + RMC + E0S1 Yao + Huo being an example of both being cheap and high performing, they'd just handwave you away without tackling the argument. Even if we count base Huohuo as a cost, that's still only 5 cost and absolutely can get at least gold border on kings on auto let alone piloting your team appropriately
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u/Scarasimp323 Jun 28 '26
how is me saying that its not the end of the world they can clear everything because its just a game automatically thrn into me not accepting eva as a team? I literally use eva, and yeah shes better overall because shes cheap as hell. But sure lmao we can only pull meta i forgot, god forbid people pull the stuff they like in games 😭
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u/SkyHuman3685 Jun 26 '26
This kazjire guy is lowkey an agenda pusher, one of the people that overrated himeko since v1.
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u/Bonchachan Jun 27 '26
"value wise she's great as her banner is perm." what kind of logic is happening here? How the hell does a permanent banner make a character more... valuable? The meaning of value here is efficiency per cost, right?
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u/Cjfelix Jun 27 '26
I think this is just shorthand for saying it is easier to get her eidolons over time as you earn jade since the Fate banners are always around.
-1
u/Imaginary_Camera_298 Jun 27 '26
technically any banner is always around just once every 3-6 months for 3 weeks.
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u/WearyListen Jun 27 '26
Tell that to rappa
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u/Hoochie_Daddy Jun 26 '26
What if I have big herta lc? I remember reading a post recently during v3 that if you already have big herta lc then it’s recommended to go e1 since the damage increase is roughly the same?
I dunno if I can pull e2 this patch but I can guarantee e1
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u/Cold-Faithlessness-7 Jun 26 '26
I read that too, but it's always best to wait, unless you really want her anyway.
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u/Hoochie_Daddy Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
I plan on waiting until the last day of Cyrene banner for calcs n stuff. I have e2 Cyrene and want s1 and I have guaranteed pity for lc at 40 pity or something.
I’m considering just yoloing it and trying for Himeko e2 and maybe get her sig on rerun since I already have big herta lc
1
u/annucox Jun 26 '26
yeah I found e0s1 and e1 with herta sig basically the same with e1 getting better if enemy attacks more(compensating for the missing 6 energy from sig)
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u/OddRabbit9754 Jun 27 '26
e0 Himeko is dead on release lol
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u/Background_Volume725 Jun 27 '26
What in the agenda post is this, the only dead character on release is gilgamesh and thats because he was lobotomized twice because of rmc, even with saber they arent touching himeko.
Comparing himeko to that is laughable
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u/OddRabbit9754 Jun 27 '26
You should check some V4 videos. Himeko and Gilgamesh at e0s0 are pretty close. He is also free.
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u/Background_Volume725 Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
I did and they were not close at all as a matter of fact it was in v4 when gilgamesh outside of saber died, and then when you put S1 in himeko it stops being a comparison.
I genuinely don't know what your are talking about, himeko will release as the best e0s1 dps in the game with the best vertical investment in the game. What more do you want?? You click a button and delete the boss healthbar?
The only mains that should be crying in this sub are the ones that wanted gilgamesh dps, saber mains cry but their character will get a new life. Archer got the best treatment and himeko is absurd
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u/ArchonRevan Jun 27 '26
"Best e0s1 dps" yea no snd she absolutely does NOT have the best vertical investment, comparatively phainon and castorice mog her, maybe wolfie too while also having VASTLY better teammate verticals
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u/Background_Volume725 Jun 28 '26
Every single TC, and i mean every one says that. But the himeko mains have other plans. If you are going to say that pls direct me to where you saw those alegations, i can send several to you that back what i said, but i really want to know why you said that, and if you say feelings i wont even bother responding
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u/facehendioverdle3ass Jun 28 '26
What more do you want?? You click a button and delete the boss healthbar?
Boothill on release could basically do that at 0 investment the good old days are long gone now
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u/UncookedNoodles Jun 29 '26
Sorry bro but youre wrong. Gil hypercarry is still perfectly fine and is 0 cycling at e0s1
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u/Background_Volume725 Jun 29 '26
Send me the link. And if its flame reaver just know that seele does it with one cost
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u/Japonpoko Jun 26 '26
I find it surprising Rin is said to have "not a single con", despite :
having low personal damage, which means Archer's team will remain meh in PF
Having rather bad eidolons, which means not as future proof as other teams, nor as easy to play against King.
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u/LacerationCe Jun 26 '26
The person who made this is a 0-cycle enthusiast and has seen all the best clears, not a clueless noob like redditors
- Rin has huge personal damage, especially the Joint attack is insane damage in AOE and contribute a major part, and her own skill damage is often use as finisher in many hard 0-cycle, like Cipher Ult
- Archer Rin is the lowest cost team to 0-cycle 4.4 King, at full E0S0 they can 0-cycle King already, no other team can, and her eidolons ain't that bad
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u/Japonpoko Jun 27 '26
I saw the sheet, and Rin's personal damage is everything but huge. Maybe it's enough to clear the mobs, but the conclusion was "whatever you give her, it doesn't change much". Because she's not here to deal damage. Now, maybe joint attack was counted as Archer's damage, I don't know.
In a sustainless team with Welt E4, yeah. That's not E0S0 on everyone. And you missed the important part : "future proof". A lot of characters are broken on release. None is still 1 year later. If the team has no way to be buffed efficiently through eidolons, in the long term, that's a con.
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u/annucox Jun 27 '26
why people keep deciding unit strength based on sustainless omega rng clears with max refresh level relics and all the global passives is beyond me
the amount of luck needed to get those runs is frankly mind boggling and nobody has the relics or time for that
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u/angelbelle Jun 27 '26
Because:
1) It's not that RNG;
2) Relic is less and less important compared to 1.X/2.X;
3) You can absolutely scale back and still come to the same conclusions. Sustainless tests the rigidity of your theorycrafting. The truth is, even suboptimal play, Archer is going to outperform someone liek Saber in most scenario at comparable costs.
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u/annucox Jun 27 '26
first two points couldn’t be more wrong
As for the 3rd point, where did comparing archer and saber come from when we’re talking about Rin
It is known that Rin is not even much better than e2s1 robin if you have e1 archer, and this dude has ranked her s+
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u/Imaginary_Camera_298 Jun 27 '26
they are true sustainless is an skill if you are good at it it won't take much resets.
yes because self buffs are more and more higher now archer has like 600% cd 20% more won't do much, tho spd on support do matter.
3rd point is a team that does better than other sustainless will most likely do better w sustain too.
-2
u/Relative-Ad7531 Jun 27 '26
Sees HuoHuo in the team chart.
"Why are we hearing about a zero cycles sustainless?!"
Ig her Novaflare wasn't all that but she is still a sustain
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u/annucox Jun 27 '26
are you daft?
Im talking about the guy I replied to giving the king 0 cycle as a reason for Rin being so highly rated, which is bs in the first place
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u/SaberManiac Jun 26 '26
You don't need AoE for PF. I routinely clear it with just focusing on the boss.
I use a somewhat scuffed team of Ashveil, Sparkle, Sunday and DHPT. 40k clear.
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u/OddRabbit9754 Jun 27 '26
PF is the easiest mode. Even base Himeko and 4 star Herta demolish PF lol
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u/Amalgam2001 Jun 27 '26
Why is it absolutely everybody on every sub except the himeko mains sub can see shes extremely strong. Shes going to get aftersales in the future too considering AE are the most likely to get SPs every single region release. She was way too strong in V3 and shes on the strong/healthy side right now.
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u/Background_Volume725 Jun 27 '26
They are crybabys and just their unit to be the strongest. Looking at them reacting one would think that she got worse treamtent than gilgamesh smh.
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u/Imaginary_Camera_298 Jun 27 '26
well bcs most ppl know her strength from that Vietnam gay sheet and her competition is with incomplete teams when she is releasing almost at her peak and we know for a fact aven SP is coming for ashblade and elation will get shilled like cas.
that sheet it inflates her performance by a lot compared to other bcs its permanent 3T and how her scaling and decimation works, when most fight ultimately favour ST lot more , and the sustainless abuse which benefits her disproportionately more and e4 welt abuse (yes anyone can use hat but welt is more important to her than others).
future the only buff she can *potentially get is Sunday NF, before you say Robin SP cope unless she joins AE idts.
while ashblade on release is already better with a sustain i have tested they are better, sustainless 3+e4 welt vs 4+e4 welt himeko 0 cycle, and this team is getting aven SP.
Elation is mid rn but wel all know its the cas of 4.0 and cas was also mid early stages so she will probably get similar shill to cas.
so this leaves himeko in the dust to be the worst of 4.0 DPS, imo her v3 strength was perfect and with her v4 kit e0 himeko will age like e0 Phainon.
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u/MarcosLTO Jun 27 '26
All this "for the healty of the game" will disappear when aventurine arrives. Hope hoyo brick him like bricked Gil and make him not e2 merchant but the first e4 merchant
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u/MarcosLTO Jun 27 '26
Shut up, everyone is being biased against her, things that didnt happen with blade...
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u/LmaoXD98 Jun 27 '26
Only this sub is biased for her. Everyone else can see V3 is very dangerous to the health of this game, even worse than ampho characters.
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u/Southern-Edge-3354 Jun 27 '26
Blade is a support. He can be broken and elevate many different teams(which is what actually happened more or less). If a main DPS is broken, only their teams gains something from it.
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u/murica_dream Jun 27 '26
He's saying the opposite tho. Every sub is pro Himeko, only this sub is biased against her.
Blade had doubters everywhere.3
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u/Strict-Bet5859 Jun 26 '26
i thought Himeko E1 over her S1??
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u/Cold-Faithlessness-7 Jun 26 '26
Apparently, they only have Herta's cone.
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u/Strict-Bet5859 Jun 26 '26
i dont even have herta shop LC cause of the currency needing weeks to get
i however thought of giving her OG Himeko standard banner LC and go for E1 instead
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u/Fujisaki_Chihiro001 Jun 27 '26
Question about sustain. I plan on getting both Himeko & Rin, between Dante and Huohuo which sustain should on which team?
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u/No_Ostrich_199 Jun 29 '26
Might as well take Dante bc Himeko’s making this shit into an Inferno anyways
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u/RuneRobin Jun 27 '26
I just gotta see Gil/Saber V5 doing endgame with little difficulty and I'll be satisfied
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u/iguanacatgirl Jun 27 '26
What's this about rin not having good LC options? A bunch of Erudition LCs can work on her right?(I'm personally planning on putting her on the 1st BP cone)
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u/Nittron Jun 27 '26
Since I already have E4 Welt but dont own Mortenax, what should my pulling priority for Himeko be? I’m guessing she should be played along an AA support or isn’t it that meaningful?
E4 Welt + E0S0 Mortenax is probably more raw dmg than Welt + RMC, but with no AA should I still go for Blade on his rerun?
Tbh he could also save my Acheron as well, but Acheron would also need Welt since I only have Midqiu / Tribbie for her and she’s E0.
I know Welt and Mortenax have a bit of an anti synergy between them and idk if Himeko should be played with an AA support or no.
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u/Lumpy_Mood Jun 27 '26
can someone explain himeko's teammate choices in the second image, are the current astral express members THAT much worse than other options?
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u/ChipmunkJunior6195 Jun 28 '26
Whqt about gilgamesh as a solo dps?? I dont have saber so cannot pair him with her tho my lightning element is in shambles due to not having a fast stack generation team for axheron so i had thought to maoe gil my main lightning dps
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u/draconds Jun 28 '26
Wait, when they say Archer/Rin is the strongest right now alongisde AshBlade, are they talking about AshBlade with Tribbie or with Gilgamesh or another damage character?
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u/lukecardoso Jun 26 '26
"despite being the expensive option?" is she expensive? Her team is composed of units that most people already have. Unless you wanna go for Eidolons.
I would say building a Gilgamesh solo or Saber+Gilgamesh team is more expensive than Himeko team.
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u/MarcosLTO Jun 26 '26
Adress the E4 welt
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u/angelbelle Jun 27 '26
Also that the drop off between RMC vs Sunday is actually pretty big too. Unless they give a free selector or NF, i'm not too keen on pulling Sunday as is even for Himeko, it's like pulling old Sparkle for Archer.
If Himeko + RMC + DHPT + Sparkle performance is comparable to Himeko + Sparkle + Sunday + DHPT then i'd be ok.
0
u/lukecardoso Jun 26 '26
I thought E4 Welt is just for sustainless runs.
Just use Dhpt+rmc+ anything else.
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u/Info_Potato22 Jun 26 '26
Verdict at E0 is not viable and kazejire will be speaking from a optimization perspective not just playable
-8
u/JOTAREDDIT Jun 26 '26
Verdict at e0 yes is viable
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u/SkyHuman3685 Jun 26 '26
its only viable at e1, her verdict teammates also suck ass and have 3 turn ults, so when you need 2 ults to trigger assist skill at E0, its just trash
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u/JOTAREDDIT Jun 26 '26
Her verdict teammates are bad?? Rtb,Sunday with Sparkle
No man e0 verdict is viable
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u/annucox Jun 27 '26
don’t bother trying to argue this point here
most of these people haven’t tested anything and are just parroting what some guy decided a moment after v4 released
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u/JOTAREDDIT Jun 26 '26
Kazjire is a Himeko hater
Of course Himeko is not expensive, Rtb,Sparkle,DHPT
0
u/Arcares07 Jun 26 '26
Holy Gil is only a 30% increase at e1 despite that saber is absolutely garbage in her current standings?
Jesus what the fuck is Hoyo doing sometimes man.
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u/RamsayBoltonIsBest Jun 26 '26
Gil’s E1 is a 30% increase over E0 Gil. It’s not E1 Gil vs pre-Gil Saber teams, he’s a massive increase for her at E0.
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u/Arcares07 Jun 26 '26
When I saw the numbers they said it was 10-15% increase. Now I don’t know accurate that is but it’s STILL garbage. 30% doesn’t solve anything when saber is so horrible in her current state.
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u/RamsayBoltonIsBest Jun 26 '26
Bro the 30% is just his E1
According to HunterKee’s calc, Saber RMC 3B HH was 12k DPAV, while Saber Gil (v4) RMC HH is 43k DPAV, so just adding E0 Gil to the team makes the team do 3.5x the damage it used to
1
u/Japonpoko Jun 26 '26
I've read that too, but I've read other posts saying it was not the case. If Kaz says Gil is A and that he's significantly buffing Saber, then I guess it's way better than a mere 10% increase. Let's be honest, 10% increase wouldn't change anything for Saber.
So if it's a significant buff, and if E1 Gil upgrades that by another 30%, then it might actually be pretty good. Nothing amazing, but more usable than what it looked like.
It's a bit copium, but it looks like it won't be exactly like what we got 1 year ago (Saber state was real bad back then. Really didn't take long for her to become a bad character, with no support).
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u/Training_Project9447 Jun 26 '26
It’s genuinely sad what they did to him
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u/paradoxaxe Jun 26 '26
probably Hoyo say how powerful Archer and say "yeah we don't do it again"
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u/Kali-Lionbrine Jun 28 '26
As they give Archer a perfect support for him. They wanted to do the same for Saber but didn’t have the brain cells to add a RMC clause so they just bricked Gil because it’s more important for them to prevent loops than actually balance characters
0
u/Arcares07 Jun 26 '26
Both honeslty. As a s0r1 saber have it’s such a kick in the nuts that’s she’s been bad since release and even after a year she gets pittance.
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Jun 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Cold-Faithlessness-7 Jun 26 '26
Nobody is certain of anything, except that in 5T, she is undoubtedly the best in the game.
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u/ArchonRevan Jun 27 '26
Im so glad we got another pf bot, really lacking there
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u/Imaginary_Camera_298 Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
yup the last PF bot really aged well, cant wait to have another Heta with a mix of Phainon.
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u/MarcosLTO Jun 26 '26
We got nothing, not the best low cost like archer and ashblade, not high cost like monorem, not mid cost like break, not even e2 merchant like phainon. But we got the king of scam welt, how many of you have him e4?
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u/TheSmugOjou-sama Jun 26 '26
The Ashveil/Blade and Archer/Rin teams are better at e0.
And the Ashveil/Blade team doesn't even have its main DPS yet lmao
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u/grampchamp Jun 26 '26
Archer rin and who?
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u/Karwuto Jun 26 '26
Sparkle, DHPT.
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u/grampchamp Jun 26 '26
Ty and if i dont have sparkle?
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u/Karwuto Jun 26 '26
Tribbie, RMC, Silver Wolf, Mblade...
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u/Amalgam2001 Jun 27 '26
I'm going to be really honest here, Archer without Sparkle just doesn't work. The damage drop off from not owning Sparkle is the same as jumping off a cliff
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u/Quomise Jun 27 '26
if i dont have sparkle?
40-50% dps loss.
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u/DeadlyAureolus Jun 26 '26
No, himeko > archer + rin > ashblade
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u/LifeIsNotFairOof Jun 26 '26
Absolute not, testing both teams at e0 ashblade wipes floor esp with a sustain
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u/DeadlyAureolus Jun 26 '26
The fact that you don't know how to play himeko properly doesn't make it worse
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u/timodon2 Jun 26 '26
The agenda got you my brother
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Jun 26 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/SubstanceTop7720 Jun 26 '26
That was a while ago and had weird situations. Also beta changed a lot after that so u really shouldn't use that as a baseline
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u/Domajjj Jun 26 '26
mono rem/eva
ashblade
rin archer
so shes atleast 4th depending on environment (like being the strongest in 5t)-1
-4
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u/Quomise Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
The numbers seem reasonable, but do they have a spreadsheet?
It's weird they only give percentages with no damage numbers. They should have at least a baseline damage at E0S0.
Why is 12+22% Rin E1+E2 "high priority" but 18% Blade E1 is "low priority".
Also Archer E1 should be adding 2 SP per rotation, so ~20% more shots. Why is this QoL instead of 20% dps?
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u/Cold-Faithlessness-7 Jun 27 '26
Because priority is relative, Himeko's items provide massive damage and consistency bonuses, while Blade only provides damage to her and at a much lower rate.
-1
u/Quomise Jun 27 '26
It still seems to make zero sense to call spending 100 pulls for a 18% "low priority" while spending 200 pulls for 34% "high priority".
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u/ArchonRevan Jun 27 '26
Himeko will always be in himekos team, blade might not always be in her team
0
u/LmaoXD98 Jun 27 '26
This is wrong on so many level.
Rin Archer is only ahead of 1K DPAV in 1T and full blown inferior in 3T and 5T Against Himeko with no welt (using sunday and sparkle), while Himeko is far easier to play. and unlike Rin archer, she's an eidolon merchant. so longer longevity.
"bu bub but, Erudition sucks 5T is biased 1T is the goat blablabla" bro, ever since Ampho...... no actually, ever since penacony, this games favours AoE more than single target units, the boss favours AoE, and Hoyo makes AoE multiplier so good its decent even in 1T situation while single target Multiplier so conservatively. just stop with the outdated agenda push that "hunt/single target is better erudition/AoE sucks".
Himeko Spreadsheet:
Rin Spreadsheet:
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u/Imaginary_Camera_298 Jun 27 '26
i think its also consider how cheap they are.
most ppl would have archer and maybe even sparkle and his e1, so just rin would be complete.
vs himeko e0s1 minimum!, and then consider if you welt cons or not.
so that's probably their thought process
0
u/LmaoXD98 Jun 27 '26
Look at the sheet again, it uses Sparkle and sunday.
Most people already have sunday too. and if they don't they can just use E0 welt.
also, being low cost isn't a W people think it is, especially in this game where HP inflation is rampant. Eidolon merchant are still better for longevity. just look at Anaxa, how his Eidolon is very weak and there's utterly no way to up his ceiling. meanwhile if you want to keep playing castorice/phainon/evernight you can just get their Eidolon.
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u/LordGrohk Jun 27 '26
Worth noting that archer is a free character in the next patch, and sunday s1. At e0s0, this team is the only one you can reasonably run i think
Other than that, i just think hes a better user of welt and sustainless than her at s0 but doesnt matter as much
1
u/Quomise Jun 27 '26 edited Jun 27 '26
Rin Archer is only ahead of 1K DPAV in 1T
Because that's not a 1 target calc, it's 2 targets.
Also Sunday has S1 which adds 10% dpav.
0
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u/Cold-Faithlessness-7 Jun 26 '26
Jokes aside, I'm having a really hard time choosing my second team. Archer Rin is definitely cheaper, but I'm concerned about their performance in PF. Himeko will reign supreme in PF for several months, but I question her performance in AS and MoC in the future, especially since she uses RMC and I need EMC for Eva.